(Help?) IR-1 / Joint Sponsor Problems (I-846/I-846a)

[MrsAwakened 7]

Hi people! First of all, I apologize for how long this post will be! Second, I'm probably posting in the wrong section but "Taxes during U.S. Immigration" and to me, that means less help. I'm aware there are AOS instructions but they make too many references to other parts of the form and it's hard to understand some of the instructions.

I was wondering if someone can help me understand this craziness! I am petitioning for my husband (who has already been a LPR for a longgg time before) and I decided it's best to have a joint sponsor. I'm waiting for the I-130 to be processed and I would like to be prepared for the next step (AOS/IV) extremely far in advance for less stress in the future since we will be dealing with the I-212. Also, no attorney will be used in this already expensive process (crazy, I know)! I'm going to make this as neat as possible so I can hopefully make this easy for everyone!

Background info to help:

I live with my husband outside of the U.S.

(Temporary residence in foreign country)

I've had a U.S. Address my whole life and still do with my mom.

I do not live with my inlaws.

My inlaws live together in the U.S.

Q1. As the petitioner, what do I do for the "tax info proof"/tax year questionable on the I-846 if I didn't have to file taxes but worked for a few months in 2014? Do I put:

2014 - (whatever I earned OR do I put $0 since I only worked for approx 5 months NOT a year?)

2013 - $0

2012 - $0

Also on my practice I-846, for #20 I checked off "I was not required to file..." But I don't want to leave anything blank! Maybe I should N/A instead:

2014 - N/A

2013 - N/A

2012 - N/A

Then as proof, should I just send a copy of my W2 form from any place I worked? (UPDATE: I just looked at the crazy instructions and it DOES say put N/A if you weren't required to file but to attach an explanation. Leaving this part up in case anyone else is searching google high and low for help)

(Extra: I'm guessing 2015 doesn't count yet because it's currently 2015 and people probably haven't filed yet???)

Now pause for a second! My next issue involves government assistance (food stamps and monthly fiancial help for disability). I read somewhere that some forms of government help (Medicaid, maybe? I can't remember the others) are okay to receive but some of them (Food stamps probably for sure??) are (might?) be required to be paid back or you can be sued? That's kind of freaking me out because...my mother and inlaws use that government help but my father-in-law also has worked for the past 3 years. That means taxes were filed from his job. Since they are married, they filed jointly. I was thinking that because my mother-in-law has not been able to work, I have my father-in-law fill out a I-846 as the joint sponsor because I'm worried they (whomever "they" is haha) won't like that she uses food stamps/monthly financial help. Instead, since they're married and in one household, have her fill out an I-846a. Either way, the government knows she has that stuff. Soooo....

(Q2) does she have to fill out the I-846a since they're married. Or is it only meant for those who want to combined their households "stuff" (??) to try to fit the 125% poverty line?

(Q3) If it is to help meet 125% line (which is what I want!) then does it even count/help if the money she gets is from the government?

(Q4) Will it affect my husband and I down the line? Or would it only affect us if we lived with his parents compared to living together without them?

Q5. I have lived with my mother for most of my life, only until the last year have I been living in my husbands home country. My US address is still with my mother (I sent the I-130 from it) so if I wanted to try to meet the 125% property line, could she also fill out an I-846a even though her financial support is also from the government? Or can she not do it at all because I've been living overseas with my husband so technically he is the only other person in my current household.

I just really don't want our life to be burdened with paying money back because someone else has government support.

(Q6). Can money saved in bank accounts count towards making the 125% poverty line? If so, how would that be added? (This would be the greatest thing ever!) I see that Part 7 #1 says "Enter the balance of all savings and checking accounts"

How much do you think should be in there to help us meet the requirement? Also, what if we all share a bank account but my inlaws also have one separate from me? When it mentions bank amount, do I only mention the joint bank account we all have or do I just add up all of the money we all own from ALL accounts...or would my inlaws do that since they're in one household and the NVC or whatever just gets that we're obviously filing as joint sponsors and they can add it up themselves? (Brush up on their math skills, maybe? >_< )

(Q6 continued). It keeps mentioning the I-846a...are they asking to contribute the information from the I-846a I intend my mother-in-law to fill out or what? Or would I put N/A and my father-in-law would be the one filling out that part on his own I-846 for his wife's I-846a since they live together?

I hope that stuff made sense and that I didn't leave any of my thoughts out! I understand it's a lot and I probably won't find the answer to everything from you all but I've seen some pretty amazing stuff on here so I'm hopeful! Haha

After all this craziness, this is what I've come up with so far for the AOS/IV packages:

AOS:

1. Bar-coded cover sheet from payment portal

2. Cover letter (optional, but I'm doing it)

3. Original, completed, signed and dated I-846 by Petitioner

4 Tax information (my W2)

5. Original, completed, signed and dated I-846 by joint sponsor

6. Original, completed, signed and dated I-846a by joint sponsor's spouse

7. Tax return transcripts from IRS for last 3 years for joint sponsor's household (2014/2013/2012)

8. Joint Sponsor and their spouse's proof of LPR

9. U.S. Domicile proof

IV:

1. Bar-coded sheet from payment portal

2. Cover Page

3. Two Passport size photos (benefiaries name, DOB and case #) (QUESTION: Do we only need two for him and none of me?)

4. Copy of bio-data page of beneficiary unreported passport

5. Photocopy of beneficiary's birth certif.

6. Photocopy of Marriage Certificate

7. Photocopy of police certificate (is this the same as their police record from a police department? also, is this only for the beneficiary and will the petitioner ever have to submit their own police records or does NVC just know your life story? lol)

Does this seem correct? Am I forgetting anything? I did get this info from this site but I really don't want to forget anything!

Thank you in advance to anyone who can help!

Have a great day.

[aaron2020 11,651]

Hi,

Why do you need to petition for your husband if he is already an LPR?

[MrsAwakened 7]

Hi,

Why do you need to petition for your husband if he is already an LPR?

He isn't anymore. That's why I mentioned the I-212.

[Ryan H 3,790]

Moved from Progress Reports to Process & Procedures.

[teeak 224]

Q1: Since you didn't file taxes, you'll put "N/A" for each of the years. You need to provide a written explanation as to why you didn't have to file taxes for each of those years. I'm guessing you didn't file because you didn't earn the an amount necessary for you to file. You can include your W-2s as proof of this. Also, if you were a student and didn't file then provide school transcripts evidencing you were a full-time student.

Q2: She doesn't have to file an I-864A. It's only for those who want to combine their income to meet the minimum income requirement.

Q3: You can't use government assistance as "income".

[You should probably figure out who you'd like to use as joint sponsors at this point. You say your father-in-law has worked for the last 3 years and earns an income. Figure out how much he makes yearly, how many people are included on his tax return, +1 for your husband and then compare it to the poverty guidelines to see if he makes enough to be able to sponsor. http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-864p.pdf]

Q4: No, it should have no affect on you or your husband if you decide to live with them. I'm assuming they are USC and therefore, they are allowed to seek help from the government. This will not come back to you or your husband to pay off. What can happen is if your husband tries to get government assistance prior to becoming a USC. The government may come back and seek retribution from his joint sponsor since the sponsor has promised to support your husband until he becomes a USC or has worked for 10 years with a GC.

Q5: No. Don't include your mother on your I-864. Unless she has a paying job which will be enough to sponsor your husband thus, not requiring a joint sponsor, don't include her.

Also, since you've been living overseas with your husband, you will need to prove your domicile is in the USA. That is, that you have either maintained ties to the USA and are only temporary living abroad or that you intend to move back prior to your husband immigrating. You can do this by showing that you have a US bank account, driver's license, lease agreements, job offer letter, school enrollment letters etc.

Q6: If you in your own bank account have 3 times the amount necessary to sponsor your husband, based on the I-864P, that would be 3 x $19,912 = $59,736, then that would be enough to sponsor him without needing a joint sponsor. Although, I would say tread lightly on this because they may ask for a joint sponsor since you don't have a steady job.

Now, be sure to keep your I-864 and your joint sponsor (father-in-law's) separate even if you may intend to live in the same household.

If your father-in-law has a bank account and does not have an income that meets the guidelines then you will subtract his current income from the amount needed and multiply by 5. If he has this amount in assets, bank account, house, stocks, etc. then he will have enough income/assets in order to sponsor your husband.

Before, you get into assets though, first figure out if he makes the income necessary to sponsor your husband. If not, you can start calculating how much in assets he'll need.

Q6: It's not necessary for your mother-in-law to fill out an I-864A since I'm assuming she doesn't make an income and will not be contributing to the total household income. Just provide an I-864 completed by your father-in-law.

AOS

1. Attach a letter explaining why you didn't file taxes in the last 3 years and provide evidence as well.

2. Don't include an I-864A if the joint sponsor's spouse had no contributing income.

3. You only need IRS tax transcripts for the most current year.

4. Include ongoing proof of income for your joint sponsor: recent pay stubs, letter from employer etc.

5. If using assets, provide proof of this: bank statements, house appraisals etc.

6. Just provide proof of LPR status for the joint sponsor

7. US Domicile proof is only needed for you since you are currently living proof. US Domicile is already established for the joint sponsor due to the evidence you provide from their income.

IV

1. Yes, only 2 photos of him.

2. Police certificate for the beneficiary only. Use this link to see where to get the certificate from: http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/fees/reciprocity-by-country/BK.html

3. Include any military, divorce, court, prison records if applicable.

Submit both packages together since sending them separately will delay your case.

[MrsAwakened 7]

Thank you! You just helped me A LOT. I'm gonna respond to each of your answers and add any new questions I have. But I'll try to use the same Q# so it goes along with the original question the whole way through.

(Q1) Yes, that's exactly why. They told me I don't have to because of the amount.

(Q2 - Q4) I figured that it couldn't count because you're not actually earning it yourself. They're actually both LPR. Does that mean it still wouldn't affect my husband and I if we live with them? Because I think any member in your household affects what the gov gives you in food stamps and possibly other stuff that I can't think of the name for but remember my mother talking about it before. We would have no plan to get it ourselves whenever we find our own place. It just so happens they need it and we would possibly live with them for x amount of years.

(Q4) NEW QUESTION: I'm assuming when you get deported, even if you already worked for 5 years in the U.S. as a LPR, your 10 year "work counter" starts over? Which kind of seems stupid because on a job application, he'd still list that he worked at whatever job for that long... 0_o

(Q5) NEW QUESTION: My mother-in-law, mother, AND now father-in-law don't have jobs...so now that he doesn't have a job can he still be a joint sponsor? Or should I focus on my Q6 which is seeing if I have enough money in my bank? I'd prefer to do the bank account route. Also, why is it $59,736? I believe you, I'm just curious!

(Q5 continued) On top of the back account, I should probably find a joint sponsor who has a job?!

Just to summarize, your joint sponsor should probably have a job with a constant income?

(Q6) NEW QUESTION: I noticed you said "your own bank account". Is it BAD if the money is in a joint bank account? Or were you saying if I have some or all ownership, I don't need a joint spons Compared to if it were someone else's account and I had zero ownership, so I'd have to make that person the joint sponsor because I can't just say money in someone else's account will be used without proof of their consent?

If joint bank account is bad, then I could probably just make my own...

____________________

After your response, this is now the situation:

Problem: Me, my mother, and my inlaws do NOT have income from a job...

Solution: I could get a completely different joint sponsor who DOES have an income from an actual job?

I'd need them to:

(1) fill out an I-846

(2) get their past 1 year tax transcript (they make you put the last 3 years but only want proof of recent year?)

(3) If they're LPR, I need proof of that. Could I use a photocopy of their GC or what?

(4) Pay stubs or letter from employer that they continue to work there

Is there anything else besides these things I'd need from them for the AOS packet?

Even if I have enough in the bank, the joint sponsor is just meant to show there will still be money coming in to support the immigrant?

Now, I'm confused about everything you said involving the possibility of my father-in-law not meeting the income guidelines. Obviously not having a job anymore means he wouldn't meet the guidelines. So....that means adding up assets. I honestly have NO idea how you're suppose to do that. Neither does he because...language barriers haha..They do own a house. But they still are paying it off. Does that mean they add what they already paid? I'm gonna make up numbers right now to see if I understand:

I-846

Part 6: Sponsors Employment Income (Joint Sponsor)

#14 Current Income: $0

#15 My Current Annual Income: $0 (???????)

Part 7: Use of assets (Joint sponsor)

1. Enter the balance of all savings and checking accounts: $20,000

2. Enter the net cash value of real-estate holdings (minus mortgage debt): $30,000

3. $0

4. Add together: $50,000

___________________________

IV packet question:

1. When it comes to police "certificate", what is the difference between just going to get any public records compared to a "certificate". I'm imagining some fancy certificate? Lol

2. You sent me the link to Bosnia's requirements but he does not have any crimes in Bosnia. However, he lived in the U.S. for 14 years and dones have a record. Do I still have to get proof he has a clean Bosnia record? Or can I just get the U.S. records? My plan was to get the US records and just send copies...Also, they will only release records a judge didn't seal and obviously my husband can't just walk into the station to sign consent and receive them himself. Is that okay because obviously the gov knows why he's not here anymore..

_________________

Extra: If someone needs a translator (my father-in-law), legally is the translator suppose to fill out a form with the person? Then sign the interpreter AND preparer section? It seems stupid that they wouldn't sign both. I guess a different scenario would be if I were to type out the form but the translator would help us communicate. Then I would fill out the "Preparer" section and he/she the "interpreter" section. If there's no certified interpreter but I type the answers for him, I'm the Preparer?

[teeak 224]

(Q2-Q4) No. It shouldn't affect you even if you were living with them. For food stamps, its for people who share the same food expenses. You could always claim that you're simply renting a room with them and are paying for your own food. Also, when he comes to the US, he won't be eligible for public assistance since the person who sponsored him should be supporting him technically if he isn't able to support himself.

(Q4) I'm actually not sure of this. Lol. But, it wouldn't have any affect in the matter anyways. Since he's marrying a USC, he'll be eligible for citizenship 3 years after he receives his GC.

(Q5) It's $59,736 if thats how much you have in your bank account. If you look at the I-864P I linked, for a household of 2 (you + your husband), you need $19,912. Since he's your spouse, it would be three times that amount in assets. If it were anyone else, then it would have to be five times the amount needed for their household size.

Yes. In this case, since your father-in-law currently doesn't have a job, it's best to find a joint sponsor with a steady income who earns enough to sponsor your husband.

(Q6) Yeah, with joint account, it becomes a little iffy. Even if you make your own, the consulate officer, CO may not be convinced that you could just live off the assets you have if you don't have a job. If you, however, included a job offer letter indicating that your future income is enough to sponsor him, then that may work.

Yes, in order to avoid more checklists, you should probably find a joint sponsor.

(1) Yes

(2) Yes, only proof of recent but you need to write your income from previous years

(3) Yes, front and back copy of their GC

(4) Yes

You could also include their W-2 but, I think if you have the tax transcript then it's not necessary.

Yes, I think the main thing they look for is that there will be a steady stream of income to support the immigrant so they don't need federal assistance.

At this point, I think you should forget about involving the father-in-law's income and assets in this matter since he no longer has a job. Easiest way to do is to just find someone who is making a steady income.

1. Police certificates are just an official record indicating that you don't have any criminal records in that country.

2. You have your country listed as Bosn-Herzegovina which is why I sent that link. The link specifies the exact type of document you need and where you can get it. You need police certificates from every country you've lived in for more than 6 months. Even if he doesn't have any crimes from Bosnia, he needs a police certificate validating exactly that. You don't need US police records since the DHS will conduct a background check and investigation on him prior to him immigrating anyways. Thus, you do not need to obtain any records from the US. You'll need records for the country he is currently in, I'm guessing Bosnia and anywhere else he may have lived for more than 6 months.

Extra: If the joint sponsor does not speak English, then whoever translates will be the interpreter and you will be the preparer. Again, I think you should move away from having your father-in-law joint sponsor since he doesn't have an income anymore.

[MrsAwakened 7]

Okay, this is making more sense...

(Q2-Q4) I understand now.

(Q4) OHHH I forgot about that! 3 years isn't too bad.

(Q5) I get what you're saying. Since we probably wouldn't use assets (you can't use assets that don't exist !), we'd only have to focus on the $59,736, correct? Plus, the new joint sponsors I need to find, who would fill out their own form with their job stuff. Also, when it comes to the new one, what if their tax adjusted income or whatever is low but they still have an income? Is that bad? Or does the fact I'd have the bank $ and then his/her income would just show he would have constant support? So then together it looks like good support for my husband? OR should I find a joint sponsor that has the $19,912? I have a friend I'm considering but I think she said she her adjusted income was only at 5,000. And lets say yearly she only makes about $11,500. I have no idea if that's good or bad in this case... She probably wouldn't be good as a joint sponsor, right? lolol if not, I'll keep looking. The messed up thing is there will apparently be a new poverty guideline in Spring of 2016

Can you try to give me the best overview of the perfect joint sponsor? lol. Ugh! Let's say it's only one person in a household what would they need? The weird thing is the 125% graph only shows households of 2+. Does that mean a single person just doesn't get to help people even if they are 100% able? Haha whatever number seems like a good income, that plus the $59,736 would be good enough?

-2015 Poverty Guidelines-

2 people = $19,912

3 people = $25,112

4 people = $30,312

I don't know people with giant families so I'll only go that far!

How much would someone have to make to qualify? What if they made enough currently but their tax years weren't very good? Does the gov mostly care you are currently making enough but still want proof?

Ex:

2014 - $12,000

2013 - $9,000

2012 - $10,000

The AOS is the WORST part of this whole I-130! lol then for me it will be putting together all extreme hardship proof for the I-212 cause they gotta be intimidating about it! xD I'm still just hoping my I-130 doesn't get any RFEs or checklist thingys. I got the first NOA already. Then it got transferred to Cali and their wait time is approx 5 months? If I even read it right...too many dates! This process makes me feel like I have "blonde roots"

That's why I'm asking so many questions now that I found someone to answer them! Sorry if I seem slow about it lol I don't want to confuse anything and get a checklist.

(Q6) So the safest thing to do is have a bank account for only my husband and I compared to a joint one with my inlaws?

Police Certificate: I have NO idea where in Bosnia to get a Police Certificate specifically in the city we live in...probably just the local police station haha I can imagine them being like "whaaaaaa?...." at first. They have police stations but also these "center" places. We'll figure it out somehow! That's good to know I don't have to get them from the US cause they're super serious about sealed cases even if you're someone's biological mother! Lol

The "Extra" was kind of a general question because my inlaws want to turn in n-400s but I didn't know if the interpreter would also be the preparer since he/she would technically be preparing AND interpreting. And I'm not a professional. If I help one or both to fill it out then I'd need to put myself as the preparer,I presume. So I was just wondering...but I didn't want it to sound off topic. haha

[teeak 224]

Q5) I think you should first look at a joint sponsor's income and then if its not enough turn to assets and see if you can use that to reach the required minimum. It won't be adjusted income, it's income BEFORE taxes. In the poverty guidelines, the reason they star with 2 is if its a single person sponsoring, then you need to add the person they will sponsor (your husband) and that becomes a household size of 2. That single person must have $19,912 to be able to sponsor your husband. You don't need the assets if they earn enough to sponsor him. The assets are only secondary just in case the sponsor is shy like $1,000 of the minimum requirement then if they have $5,000 in the bank, then they would qualify to sponsor.

That $59k number is only for you as the spouse if you don't have an income at all. You would complete an I-864 and show that you don't have an income but you have such and such an amount in the bank. Then, your joint sponsor would complete an I-864 and show that their income meets the requirement amount.

Q6) Since you're getting a joint sponsor, you won't even need to show your bank account balance. That bank account balance would be if you were solely going to sponsor without someone joint sponsoring. Since you're looking for a joint sponsor the reviewers won't even look at your I-864. They just want to see why you're not able to sponsor. If you have a joint sponsor, they will look only at the joint sponsor's income+assets to see if they qualify to sponsor. Your income and assets, bank balance won't matter at that point.

You can feel free to direct message me about this once it comes to this stage and you need help figuring out calculations and etc.

(Q6) Since you'll be getting a joint sponsor, you won't even need to worry about your own bank balance actually but, if you want you could still show it on your I-864. Yes, it should be only your husband and you. I didn't even know you could have a joint bank account with your in-laws lol

Police Certificate: I'm sure there's plenty of people that immigrate from Bosnia. You can always search this website to see how other people from Bosnia retrieved their police certificate or post in the regional thread.

[MrsAwakened 7]

Okay, thank you. I appreciate your help and will keep that in mind when I get to that step.

Yes! You can have a joint account with your in-laws but it's like any other joint account lol there isn't any special "in-law account type" because that'd be too weird and I don't think many would pick it anyway! but for this process, we'll just get our own.

Also, I'd like to make sure I really understand this.

When it comes to the household size, I'm assuming anyone who is 18+ can fill out a joint sponsor I-846 form to combined their assets or money. On top of that, if there are already two people in the household, they'd add my husband as a 3rd which means they'd have to fit the $25,112 line as a 3 person household? or if they're already a 3 person household, they'd add on my husband and then the joint sponsor would have to meet the $30,312 line as a 4 person household? But they meet these lines by discovering what they make in a year BEFORE they do their taxes? And how do they figure out what they make BEFORE taxes? Do they just calculate their hourly pay into what their yearly salary is?

Then if there's 2 adults already in a household, one could fill out the I-846 and the second adult could fill out the I-846a if they need to combine their information? I'm going to tell you this 2 person household scenario:

Adult A has 2 jobs but when it comes to their tax year #s might be kind of low (Maybe because they didn't have 2 jobs in 2014?). Does that matter?

Adult B has 1 job (how good the hourly pay = unknown), probably good #s on their tax years

How serious are they about low tax year numbers if you have a good income (3 jobs in one household)? Based on these two people, who would be a better fit for the I-846 and who would be better to fill out the I-846a? Does it not matter at all and either could fill out the I-846 while the other the I-846a because they're one household and will be looked at as combined anyway?

[teeak 224]

Yes, you're right about household size. The person has to be 18+, living in the US and a legal resident (GC or USC). Usually you can just check your pay stub since it will say total pay. Net pay would be after taxes. Let's say someone has a total pay of $1000 and their pay stub says a net pay of $856. You would count the $1000 and if they are paid twice a month, then that means they receive 24 paychecks in one year. So, 24 x $1000 = $24000, which would be their total income.

Nope, it shouldn't matter. They look at current income. Adult A would just need to provide proof of this current income be it, employment letter, pay stubs etc.

Tax numbers are provided to show that there is consistency in earnings and that they will continue to earn money. I would say have the person that makes more money complete the I-864 and if that is not enough to sponsor your husband, have the second person who earns less money fill out an I-864A. Then combine these two totals to see if they meet the poverty guidelines. Another thing is that if your husband receives government assistance before becoming a USC then they will first go after the joint sponsor first (whoever fills out the I-864). Just letting you know since this is something you should let your joint sponsors know. Also, I'm pretty sure that these two people living in the same household have to be related.

[MrsAwakened 7]

Good news! We found the perfect sponsor! ?

And the person has none of the problems I mentioned in the other posts! haha Now to fill out the papers and have them ready! Another good thing is that we found out where to get the police certificate and that other one they mentioned on the site. Oddly, they're found in two different cities but the good news is that we know how and where to get them!

A little side question, I see on this site it recommends putting your case number on each page of the AOS packet and the IV packet, EXCEPT the barcoded pages...should I really do that? I learned never to write on important test packets in school because it might mess up something and I categorize this as an important test packet! Haha it does sound like a good idea but it seems crazy and unprofessional!!!

Also, my NOA1 showed up in the mail at our foreign address but it was extremely quick O.o Maybe they faxed it from the U.S. to an Embassy and then they sent it to us?! That has to be it because how could they possibly send it from here to there so quickly? Lol oh well...I'm not complaining. ? Now hopefully the NOA2 comes quick! Apparently, it doesn't really matter where you send it from. It matters what you put as your physical address. I was worried about where they'd send our stuff. I don't want to be in the opposite location. >_<' but I feel like if I hadn't have sent it from the U.S., it might have taken longer to get there??? Who knows!

You're so nice! Thank you for answering all my questions and all the new ones I keep discovering. I really appreciate it.

[teeak 224]

Glad to hear you've found a sponsor!

Yes, you should put the case number on every page just in case any of the pages/papers get lost, NVC will be able to know exactly what case it belongs to.

You're welcome! Glad to have been able to help