Chasing fair skin, Ivorians ignore whitening cream ban

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

It doesn't change the fact that most Africans do not consider themselves the same as black Americans. Bottom line. Sorry you don't agree.

Of course they don't, because they are NOT the same. Black Africans are as different from black Americans as white British are from white Americans. But it does not change the fact that people with white skin are called white, and people with black skin are called black. No matter how you try to justify your argument.

How many times have you been to Africa, to know how they refer to themselves?

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Of course they don't, because they are NOT the same. Black Africans are as different from black Americans as white British are from white Americans. But it does not change the fact that people with white skin are called white, and people with black skin are called black. No matter how you try to justify your argument.

How many times have you been to Africa, to know how they refer to themselves?

I have friends who are Moroccan, Senegalese, Brazilian, Ghananian, Nigerian, Somalian, Cameroonian, and many from the Caribbean.

[Voice of Reason 10,298]

Actually it does matter where you're from. Because people from Africa or any other country that have dark skin don't identify as black. They identify as the country they're from. Africans, Ivorians, Caribbeans, Jamaicans, none of these people call themselves black.

Just as whites in America call themselves Americans. As should all blacks who are born here. You guys and gals are the odd ones out, it seems, identifying yourselves by color and country as opposed to just country.

I long for a time when we are all just Americans. But I doubt I will see it in my lifetime. Especially after the last few years of moving backwards.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Of course they don't, because they are NOT the same. Black Africans are as different from black Americans as white British are from white Americans. But it does not change the fact that people with white skin are called white, and people with black skin are called black. No matter how you try to justify your argument.

How many times have you been to Africa, to know how they refer to themselves?

I'll be your huckleberry.

I've talked to Africans before, because I've been to many different countries and met them. They refer themselves as Africans, not black. They also have a certain disdain for black people, as they see us as not being true to our roots, like we chose to live in the US after our ancestors were brought here against their wills.

There are some articles about black people going to Africa and having different experiences. Some feel a sense of kinship, others feel like they don't have anything in common and they make them feel like it's their fault for not knowing the language or not being able to understand the culture.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Just as whites in America call themselves Americans. As should all blacks who are born here. You guys and gals are the odd ones out, it seems, identifying yourselves by color and country as opposed to just country.

I long for a time when we are all just Americans. But I doubt I will see it in my lifetime. Especially after the last few years of moving backwards.

I am an American. White people identify as white instead of European, that's the benefit of being the majority.

[Ban Hammer 12,829]

Again, men are the root of this problem. I am sure this was invented by men.

we must ban men!

[JohnR! 5,495]

Where is New Jersey?

What about brown dudes in New Jersey?

[Teddy B 17,251]

we must ban men!

That's been the CABA slogan since it's inception.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

we must ban men!

We should. You guys are problematic.

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

Not quite true, considering that a majority of women with straight hair are not white. Try Asian or Hispanic or Indian.

So you both have a point and don't have a point, here. SCHRÖDINGER'S POINT WOOO!

As a straight haired person (the only one out of my sibling group--and there are six of us) I spent a lot of time looking into why I looked differently to my siblings as a child. The answer is simple genetics and the genes for straight (truly straight) hair do indeed exist amongst white people. It's a recessive trait, though, true straight hair, but it's one of the fun ones that gives us a spectrum. If you get two copies of the straight hair gene from your parents, you'll have straight hair, end of story. But there are wavy and curly hair genes (technically wavy is a variation on the curly gene, but a less 'severe' expression of it--it's more complex than a simple punnet square and I'm simplifying here). So if you have a copy of the straight and the wavy, you'll have lightly wavy hair, if you have a copy of the wavy and the tightly curly, you'll have somewhat more 'manageable' ringlets than someone who's got two copies of the tightly curly (manageable is in quotes because it's manageable for hairstyles that fit the ideal of beauty held by the current status quo), if you have a straight and a tightly curly, it depends on the 'severity' of expression of the curly, but you may be fortunate enough to end up with wavy hair or very 'manageable' ringlets. My siblings all got a wavy gene from either my mother or stepmother. My mother, who clearly carries for straight as her hair is straighter than any of my siblings' hair, gave me her straight gene and I got my father's straight gene as well (though, to be fair, I am mixed with first nations through my father).

Now, this is all fine and good, all it discusses is how you get wavy or straight hair. 'European' genetics do indeed have sources of the straight gene and also tend to not have the most 'severe' of the curly genes.

The result of that is that there's a certain degree of waviness (often considered 'straight' by the standards of those who come from regions/ethnic backgrounds dominated by the tightly curly gene expression) that is idealized. You can use hot curlers and make this wavy hair curly when the trends go this way. You can use a flat iron and make it straight--which is actually a different kind of straightness than naturally straight hair. This allows you to have the hairstyles of the moment and the trends. My straight hair severely limits what hairstyles I can have, just as tightly curly hair limits the hairstyles I can have. Since the hairstyle trends in fashion are typically dominated by designs for and by european-descended women (who typically have wavy hair), those of us on the distant ends of the spectrum often spend our childhoods and adolescences dreaming of having that perfect, manageable hair.

[Darnell 8,478]

Again, men are the root of this problem. I am sure this was invented by men.

now that I'll agree with. Specifically in Ivory Coast, the men there started talking with the Chinese folk already there, and tried to increase profits on the skin care creme. Chinese Creme manufacturing methods aren't "Lets shoot for a quality product" - it's always "Lets see how much other stuff we can put in there from our supply of carcinogens from our oil company off-shoots"

Sorry.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

So you both have a point and don't have a point, here. SCHRÖDINGER'S POINT WOOO!

As a straight haired person (the only one out of my sibling group--and there are six of us) I spent a lot of time looking into why I looked differently to my siblings as a child. The answer is simple genetics and the genes for straight (truly straight) hair do indeed exist amongst white people. It's a recessive trait, though, true straight hair, but it's one of the fun ones that gives us a spectrum. If you get two copies of the straight hair gene from your parents, you'll have straight hair, end of story. But there are wavy and curly hair genes (technically wavy is a variation on the curly gene, but a less 'severe' expression of it--it's more complex than a simple punnet square and I'm simplifying here). So if you have a copy of the straight and the wavy, you'll have lightly wavy hair, if you have a copy of the wavy and the tightly curly, you'll have somewhat more 'manageable' ringlets than someone who's got two copies of the tightly curly (manageable is in quotes because it's manageable for hairstyles that fit the ideal of beauty held by the current status quo), if you have a straight and a tightly curly, it depends on the 'severity' of expression of the curly, but you may be fortunate enough to end up with wavy hair or very 'manageable' ringlets. My siblings all got a wavy gene from either my mother or stepmother. My mother, who clearly carries for straight as her hair is straighter than any of my siblings' hair, gave me her straight gene and I got my father's straight gene as well (though, to be fair, I am mixed with first nations through my father).

Now, this is all fine and good, all it discusses is how you get wavy or straight hair. 'European' genetics do indeed have sources of the straight gene and also tend to not have the most 'severe' of the curly genes.

The result of that is that there's a certain degree of waviness (often considered 'straight' by the standards of those who come from regions/ethnic backgrounds dominated by the tightly curly gene expression) that is idealized. You can use hot curlers and make this wavy hair curly when the trends go this way. You can use a flat iron and make it straight--which is actually a different kind of straightness than naturally straight hair. This allows you to have the hairstyles of the moment and the trends. My straight hair severely limits what hairstyles I can have, just as tightly curly hair limits the hairstyles I can have. Since the hairstyle trends in fashion are typically dominated by designs for and by european-descended women (who typically have wavy hair), those of us on the distant ends of the spectrum often spend our childhoods and adolescences dreaming of having that perfect, manageable hair.

True.

But my point is, many women around the world strive for straight hair and light skin due to society telling them they are not beautiful and less pretty if they do not conform to the European standards of beauty. I posted a Google link. I typed in beauty and then clicked images. There were no black or brown women in the images for beauty. Many women look to magazines and images on the internet when they are thinking of dressing up for the night or changing their make up. When you have no one to look to who "looks" like you, you strive to look like the images you see most. Again, just with my experiences living and being in Asia, the majority of Billboard advertisements on beauty products and clothing are white women, not even the native women of those countries. These women are killing their skin to become fairer, lighter and whiter.

now that I'll agree with. Specifically in Ivory Coast, the men there started talking with the Chinese folk already there, and tried to increase profits on the skin care creme. Chinese Creme manufacturing methods aren't "Lets shoot for a quality product" - it's always "Lets see how much other stuff we can put in there from our supply of carcinogens from our oil company off-shoots"

Sorry.

Why do you refuse to speak about the rest of the world which has influenced the men of Ivory Coast to think like this?

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

True.

But my point is, many women around the world strive for straight hair and light skin due to society telling them they are not beautiful and less pretty if they do not conform to the European standards of beauty. I posted a Google link. I typed in beauty and then clicked images. There were no black or brown women in the images for beauty. Many women look to magazines and images on the internet when they are thinking of dressing up for the night or changing their make up. When you have no one to look to who "looks" like you, you strive to look like the images you see most. Again, just with my experiences living and being in Asia, the majority of Billboard advertisements on beauty products and clothing are white women, not even the native women of those countries. These women are killing their skin to become fairer, lighter and whiter.

Oh, I am not arguing with you at all. You're absolutely right and it is not my place to deny anything a black woman has to say about beauty standards and dark skin or curly hair or anything like that! I was addressing only the person saying that straight hair isn't a white thing anyway. Because it is and straight doesn't only mean razor straight! Definitely it's because 'european' standards dictate. I completely agree with you.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Oh, I am not arguing with you at all. You're absolutely right and it is not my place to deny anything a black woman has to say about beauty standards and dark skin or curly hair or anything like that! I was addressing only the person saying that straight hair isn't a white thing anyway. Because it is and straight doesn't only mean razor straight! Definitely it's because 'european' standards dictate. I completely agree with you.

I think he was looking for a reason to disagree with me. lol

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

I think he was looking for a reason to disagree with me. lol

He's an idiot and doesn't understand that straight hair is not just 'ruler straight' hair. I can no more style my hair in a majority of adorable 'white' styles than a black woman can--just for totally different reasons! Straightened hair behaves differently from straight hair, which people who do not have straight straight hair do not understand. It took me until I was 20 to figure out why my hair would never ever ever look like the straight hair styles in the style books, even a little--that's when I had a nice Chinese-Canadian hair stylist who looked at the style book and said 'You can't have that. Your hair is straight.' I miss her so much. She taught me that if I want longer styles to look okay, someone has to use a razor, not scissors and that there's no power on this earth that will make a pixie cut viable for me--it will always grow straight up.