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aidan80

B2 Visitor Visa Denied CIMT

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I'm a resident in the US (about to finally apply for citizenship) my brother his wife and children wanted to come visit the sunshine state where I reside for a family holiday. I should add some background information. I'm originally from the northwest of Ireland and we all grew up in the British occupied north of Ireland.

So everyone runs through ESTA system and my brother is denied. He applies for a B2 visa and is denied at the consulate. The interviewing officer states (CIMT) Crime Involving Moral Turpitude. He's been to the US a number of times in the past without issue, never overstayed and his alleged crime most certainly isn't involving moral turpitude nor a crime.

The alleged CIMT is 31 years old and occurred while he was in his late teens. As some of you might imagine the situation on the ground back home was at times tense to say the least. He was captured by the British and received a conviction and sentenced for riotous behavior. A political act, an act of defense most certainly not a crime in the eyes of the community. 31 years later he's never had any issues, goes to work, pays his taxes and takes care of his family etc. What happened in the past while unfortunate and unpleasant was a product of the unstable times we where in back then.

I'm not trying to start up any kind of flame war as to who's right vs wrong in what happened back home. I'm simply laying out the facts as they are. I'd like my brother to visit the US again and should he choose I'd bring him over as a family member. I feel while I can understand the interviewing officers decision and how they might intemperate the facts. That decision I feel was wrong and needs to be reassessed at a higher, more qualified level.

I understand there's a process not to appeal but to have the case reviewed in the US. I'm hoping some of you may shed some light on this process and whether my becoming a citizen would at all strengthen that case.

Thanks in advance!


Filed N400 11/7/16

Check (CC) Cashed 11/10/16

Text/Email NOA 11/16/16

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Hi,

It's almost impossible to change the CO's denial of a visitor visa. http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/fair-not-consular-officer-decision-deny-visitor-visa-reversed-article-1.1014088

You becoming a US citizen will not help because you are not a part of the visitor visa process.

Sorry

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You need to find out what was he convicted under in his country and look for the equivalent in the US law - then see what's the max sentence he could've gotten and if it is classed as CIMT - that will get you started.

You also may want to get an immigration lawyer involved to see if it's possible to get a waiver so brother can get a tourist visa - the only thing is, the consular officer has to recommend him for a waiver and there's at least 6 months before the waiver goes through as DC is involved.

Why don't you post this on Britishexpats forum - plenty of CIMT non-CIMT topics there and members are knowledgeable.


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How did he travel to the US before? What visa did he have?

A conviction of Riot would certainly be a CIMT, but not an allegation. Did he show that he was not convicted?

There is no restriction on how often you can apply for a B2, there is no appeal process, you just apply again.


“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

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How did he travel to the US before? What visa did he have?

A conviction of Riot would certainly be a CIMT, but not an allegation. Did he show that he was not convicted?

There is no restriction on how often you can apply for a B2, there is no appeal process, you just apply again.

He says his brother was convicted, I'd imagine he 'forgot' to mention it on previous trips.


August 2000: We start e-mailing. I'm in Bosnia, she's in Florida

October 29th 2000: She sends me e-mail asking if I would marry her

October 29th 2000(5 seconds later): I say yes

November 2000: She sends me tickets to Orlando for when I get back

December 6th 2000: Return from Bos

December 11th 2000: Fly to Orlando, she meets me at airport

December 22nd 2000: I fly back to UK

January 3rd 2001: She flies to UK (Good times)

Mid February 2001: Pregnancy test Positive

Mid February 2001: She flies back to US

March 2001: Miscarriage, I fly to US on first flight I can get

May 2001: I leave US before my 90 days are up

June 2001: I fly back to US, stopped at airport for questioning as I had only just left

September 2001: Pregnancy test Positive again

September 2001: She falls sick, I make decision to stay to look after her as I am afraid I may have problems getting back in.

April 16th 2002: Our son is born, we start getting stuff together for his passport

March 6th 2003: We leave US for UK as family

Early April 2003: Family troubles make her return to US, I ask Embassy in London about possibilities of returning to US

April 16th 2003: London Embassy informs me that I will be banned from the Visa Waiver Program for 10 years, my little boys first birthday

June 13th 2006: I-129f sent

August 11th 2006: NOA1 Recieved

After our relationship breaks down she admits to me that she had never bothered to start the application process

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There has to be a way to prove that the alleged crime didn't in fact involve moral turpitude.

Perhaps I need to go back and re read it, but saw a lot of this.

If he did not declare it on previous visits that would be Misrepresentation and a much bigger issue than the original incident.


“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

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Perhaps I need to go back and re read it, but saw a lot of this.

If he did not declare it on previous visits that would be Misrepresentation and a much bigger issue than the original incident.

It wasn't declared as it isn't considered a crime in the traditional sense. I'm not saying it's normal or accepted to engage in activities. It was however a product of the times in which is occurred.


Filed N400 11/7/16

Check (CC) Cashed 11/10/16

Text/Email NOA 11/16/16

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I lived in the UK most of my life and I have never heard of this not being considered a crime in the normal sense. If he has something to substantiate this then a lawyer may well be able to help with a review.

A lawyer can seek a review based on a legal mistake, I forget the proper name but not a route available to an individual.


“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

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It wasn't declared as it isn't considered a crime in the traditional sense. I'm not saying it's normal or accepted to engage in activities. It was however a product of the times in which is occurred.

You say 'captured by the British', what you should have said was arrested and convicted. Northern Ireland is part of the UK so wether you like it or not he was legally convicted of a criminal offense.

Best prepare yourself for a misrepresentation explanation.


August 2000: We start e-mailing. I'm in Bosnia, she's in Florida

October 29th 2000: She sends me e-mail asking if I would marry her

October 29th 2000(5 seconds later): I say yes

November 2000: She sends me tickets to Orlando for when I get back

December 6th 2000: Return from Bos

December 11th 2000: Fly to Orlando, she meets me at airport

December 22nd 2000: I fly back to UK

January 3rd 2001: She flies to UK (Good times)

Mid February 2001: Pregnancy test Positive

Mid February 2001: She flies back to US

March 2001: Miscarriage, I fly to US on first flight I can get

May 2001: I leave US before my 90 days are up

June 2001: I fly back to US, stopped at airport for questioning as I had only just left

September 2001: Pregnancy test Positive again

September 2001: She falls sick, I make decision to stay to look after her as I am afraid I may have problems getting back in.

April 16th 2002: Our son is born, we start getting stuff together for his passport

March 6th 2003: We leave US for UK as family

Early April 2003: Family troubles make her return to US, I ask Embassy in London about possibilities of returning to US

April 16th 2003: London Embassy informs me that I will be banned from the Visa Waiver Program for 10 years, my little boys first birthday

June 13th 2006: I-129f sent

August 11th 2006: NOA1 Recieved

After our relationship breaks down she admits to me that she had never bothered to start the application process

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I am really intrigued about this, a quick Google fails to come up with any case law.

Like Scotland, N Ireland has a slightly different legal system.


“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

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I am really intrigued about this, a quick Google fails to come up with any case law.

Like Scotland, N Ireland has a slightly different legal system.

I think more information about which offence he was convicted of would be needed to give an accurate answer.

By the OPs wording I'm assuming both he and his brother are Republicans and possibly don't acknowledge that crimes against the UK Armed Forces or Police Services to be crimes at all.

I could be wrong but that's the impression I got from the post.

My own personal opinions of PIRA and the Troubles in Northern Ireland aside I would find it interesting to know the outcome of this.


August 2000: We start e-mailing. I'm in Bosnia, she's in Florida

October 29th 2000: She sends me e-mail asking if I would marry her

October 29th 2000(5 seconds later): I say yes

November 2000: She sends me tickets to Orlando for when I get back

December 6th 2000: Return from Bos

December 11th 2000: Fly to Orlando, she meets me at airport

December 22nd 2000: I fly back to UK

January 3rd 2001: She flies to UK (Good times)

Mid February 2001: Pregnancy test Positive

Mid February 2001: She flies back to US

March 2001: Miscarriage, I fly to US on first flight I can get

May 2001: I leave US before my 90 days are up

June 2001: I fly back to US, stopped at airport for questioning as I had only just left

September 2001: Pregnancy test Positive again

September 2001: She falls sick, I make decision to stay to look after her as I am afraid I may have problems getting back in.

April 16th 2002: Our son is born, we start getting stuff together for his passport

March 6th 2003: We leave US for UK as family

Early April 2003: Family troubles make her return to US, I ask Embassy in London about possibilities of returning to US

April 16th 2003: London Embassy informs me that I will be banned from the Visa Waiver Program for 10 years, my little boys first birthday

June 13th 2006: I-129f sent

August 11th 2006: NOA1 Recieved

After our relationship breaks down she admits to me that she had never bothered to start the application process

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Me too.

US attitudes on terrorism have changed a lot over that time period.


“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

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You say 'captured by the British', what you should have said was arrested and convicted. Northern Ireland is part of the UK so wether you like it or not he was legally convicted of a criminal offense.

Best prepare yourself for a misrepresentation explanation

I say "captured by the British" because that's what it was. Captured by an occupying force and criminalized by a foreign government who have never at any time had any right in my country. You can spin it whatever way you like but when you take something that isn't yours it's theft. No matter if it's a bit of property or an entire country. Resistance should be expected by the local population. Resistance isn't a crime, Luckily for us the American's tend to understand what it means to be free.


Filed N400 11/7/16

Check (CC) Cashed 11/10/16

Text/Email NOA 11/16/16

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Me too.

US attitudes on terrorism have changed a lot over that time period.

Terrorism, I'm sorry but from my point of view and my experiences in life growing up back home. The only terrorists were the British sponsored death gangs, paramilitary "police" force and the local militia the UDR. All armed, trained and propped up by successive British governments to put down resistance to their years old occupation regardless the cost. The second we the people resisted all of a sudden we're the terrorists. I'm sorry but it wasn't as black and white as the BBC would have you believe.


Filed N400 11/7/16

Check (CC) Cashed 11/10/16

Text/Email NOA 11/16/16

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