Walker wants Boy Scouts ‘protected’ from gay people

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

All of my Scout leaders were male until I was a fourth year (and then we broke our female leader tobogganing, oops). We brought along a female parent on overnights to satisfy the requirements of the Bylaws (if you had female youth, there had to be an adult female present on overnights). But I was regularly taken into the hills and even interprovincially by a group of adult heterosexual (I assume they were as they were married to ladies) males as a teen/pre-teen girl. When we went on a 14 day excursion to PEI, we did not, in fact, have our own female--the token female leader belonged to another troop we were traveling with and was on another bus. The idea of men mentoring young women does not, in fact, bother me in the slightest. Not one of the girls in my troop (we had one of the largest proportions of female Scouts for miles and miles as we were the first ones in the region to allow girls, back when it was on a troop-by-troop basis--girls had been allowed in our Beavers, Cubs, Scouts, Venturers and Rovers since literally the day girls were permitted in the troops on a case-by-case basis) was ever made to feel harassed by a leader, male or female. I never met a girl in any group who had felt harassed (at least on the basis of attraction to the girl--obviously some leaders sucked and held the girls to a different standard of ability, which was something that we fought back against a lot and other leaders just sucked and treated kids like ######) by a male leader.

And trust me, teenage and pre-teen girls gossip about their leaders. A lot.

My rebuttal question to you is this: Do you trust stepfathers to be home alone with their teen/preteen stepdaughters overnight?

I do, I would.. and my scout leaders growing up was usually one of the scouts moms (not on the camp outs, but this was Utah so I don't expect it to be the norm). I don't have any fears with gay men leading in the scouts but I think the question is fair - though if they are allowing it across the board on both sides then it is not a reasonable rebuttal.

Edited July 15, 2015 by OnMyWayID

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Your question would show tremendous shortsightedness and unfamiliarity of how the Scouts operate.

Other pertinent questions would be: Is this person qualified for this task? What is the history of this person with the group he/she will be chaperoning during the weekend? Will there be other chaperons accompanying the group? What is the location of the outing? What are the resources at the site? How will the group be transported to/fro their departure point?

I would not. I would not want to put my daughter in that type of predicament no matter how much I trust this scout.

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

I do, I would.. and my scout leaders growing up was usually one of the scouts moms (not on the camp outs, but this was Utah so I don't expect it to be the norm). I don't have any fears with gay men leading in the scouts but I think the question is fair - though if they are allowing it across the board on both sides then it is not a reasonable rebuttal.

Honestly, the Girl Scouts of America have been allowing GLBT youth and leaders for awhile now--they openly embrace transwomen, which is really amazingly awesome of them. While they typically don't have men along on overnights or as leaders as far as I know (I was in Girl Guides in Canada for awhile before I was a Scout--we did allow men to come along on mother-daughter camps when there was no mother in the picture) they have allowed lesbian leaders for some time.

Other models include Campfire Boys and Girls, and Girls and Boys clubs, as well as Christian Youth Groups--all of which are often co-ed and which have both male and female leaders present at overnights. I am not saying a gay man is a woman, but if heterosexual men and women are allowed along on co-ed sleepovers, well, what's the difference between that and a gay man on a boys-only sleep over.

I would not. I would not want to put my daughter in that type of predicament no matter how much I trust this scout.

So is your daughter not allowed to go to slumber parties if the other girl's father will be present?

[Janelle2002 3,865]

Honestly, the Girl Scouts of America have been allowing GLBT youth and leaders for awhile now--they openly embrace transwomen, which is really amazingly awesome of them. While they typically don't have men along on overnights or as leaders as far as I know (I was in Girl Guides in Canada for awhile before I was a Scout--we did allow men to come along on mother-daughter camps when there was no mother in the picture) they have allowed lesbian leaders for some time.

Other models include Campfire Boys and Girls, and Girls and Boys clubs, as well as Christian Youth Groups--all of which are often co-ed and which have both male and female leaders present at overnights. I am not saying a gay man is a woman, but if heterosexual men and women are allowed along on co-ed sleepovers, well, what's the difference between that and a gay man on a boys-only sleep over.

So is your daughter not allowed to go to slumber parties if the other girl's father will be present?

This is correct. I have only let them go to one slumber party and it was all girls and no men, period.

I wouldn't want to send my son on a trip with a strange heterosexual woman. That's just me. So much is happening in this day and times. However, if it is a gay male I would be okay with sending my daughter with him. Because I know he has no interest in the opposite sex. A gay woman with my son, sure. These situations I would be more comfortable with.

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

This is correct. I have only let them go to one slumber party and it was all girls and no men, period.

I wouldn't want to send my son on a trip with a strange heterosexual woman. That's just me. So much is happening in this day and times. However, if it is a gay male I would be okay with sending my daughter with him. Because I know he has no interest in the opposite sex. A gay woman with my son, sure. These situations I would be more comfortable with.

So how do you test to make sure that a gay male is really gay or that a gay woman is really gay? What about bisexual men and women? Are they not permitted to be near your children at all?

(Genuinely curious, btw. I've never met anyone before who has claimed that gay men shouldn't be near boys who actually followed through to the point of not allowing their daughters to go to slumber parties with families where the mother was not divorced or sending the father away--I've never even encountered a slumber party without the father present, in fact)

Edited July 15, 2015 by Not a Tailor

[Janelle2002 3,865]

So how do you test to make sure that a gay male is really gay or that a gay woman is really gay? What about bisexual men and women? Are they not permitted to be near your children at all?

(Genuinely curious, btw. I've never met anyone before who has claimed that gay men shouldn't be near boys who actually followed through to the point of not allowing their daughters to go to slumber parties with families where the mother was not divorced or sending the father away--I've never even encountered a slumber party without the father present, in fact)

I have to know the people and the family. That's just it. I don't let my daughters go to slumber parties at schools just because it is their friend and I don't know the people they are going with.

This is someone's preference. I never said I am against it, I said I would not put my children in that situation. It is not about whether the individual is homosexual or not. I feel this way about heterosexual people. I would NEVER advocate against allowing homosexual people to be leaders in the Scouts. I'm sorry what I am saying is a little blurry. But I was also raised this way. I was not allowed to go to sleep over at friends houses and if it was for a special occasion the male could not be present.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

As a complete aside I am friends with a family member of the founders of the movement, and I find the whole fuss risible. I, myself, belonged for many years but quit once I became a member.

The whole movement is dodgy IMO and should be folded.

You were a Boy Scout?

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

I have to know the people and the family. That's just it. I don't let my daughters go to slumber parties at schools just because it is their friend and I don't know the people they are going with.

This is someone's preference. I never said I am against it, I said I would not put my children in that situation. It is not about whether the individual is homosexual or not. I feel this way about heterosexual people. I would NEVER advocate against allowing homosexual people to be leaders in the Scouts. I'm sorry what I am saying is a little blurry. But I was also raised this way. I was not allowed to go to sleep over at friends houses and if it was for a special occasion the male could not be present.

I'm honestly just curious about how that even works. I grew up in a really poor part of rural Canada. There were single moms, but single moms couldn't afford the cost of extra kids for a night. Only the two-parent households could and there's no way they could afford to send dad to a hotel for the night, for example.

Another question, because I'm fascinated and curious about how this works and what the lines are, because I've never encountered this before. Your husband is unrelated to your daughters, I assume. When you do manage to get your husband home (and I do believe you will, Janelle, this waiting and bullshit is such ####### and you are a genuinely good person who deserves to have your family together), will he be allowed to sleep in the same house as them or, if they were minors (I don't think you're old enough to have adult daughters, but people can look good and be older, I guess) would you allow this?

[Jacque67 7,328]

You were a Boy Scout?

Yeah. I meant to write I quit when I hit 14,

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Yeah. I meant to write I quit when I hit 14,

So you are or were a male.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

I'm honestly just curious about how that even works. I grew up in a really poor part of rural Canada. There were single moms, but single moms couldn't afford the cost of extra kids for a night. Only the two-parent households could and there's no way they could afford to send dad to a hotel for the night, for example.

Another question, because I'm fascinated and curious about how this works and what the lines are, because I've never encountered this before. Your husband is unrelated to your daughters, I assume. When you do manage to get your husband home (and I do believe you will, Janelle, this waiting and bullshit is such ####### and you are a genuinely good person who deserves to have your family together), will he be allowed to sleep in the same house as them or, if they were minors (I don't think you're old enough to have adult daughters, but people can look good and be older, I guess) would you allow this?

The other moms would chip in and help out. Quite normal.

2nd, my husband isn't getting here. We have abandoned all hope and are splitting into 2, you know, like our lives have been for the last 4 years we have been at this.

3rd, my kids are older.. If I did bring a step father into the home my kids are statistically at a safer age which is 7-13, except for my youngest which is 11. Doors in my house are to be locked at night and I am a very, very light sleeper. Also, I know my husband. This is different than sending them camping by themselves for days with a complete stranger.

Thank you for thinking I am a good person Not a Tailor and you are as well. I am happy for all of the progress that is being made and I know you and your wife will be happy.

[Jacque67 7,328]

So you are or were a male.

Down boy!

[Not a Tailor 1,370]

The other moms would chip in and help out. Quite normal.

2nd, my husband isn't getting here. We have abandoned all hope and are splitting into 2, you know, like our lives have been for the last 4 years we have been at this.

3rd, my kids are older.. If I did bring a step father into the home my kids are statistically at a safer age which is 7-13, except for my youngest which is 11. Doors in my house are to be locked at night and I am a very, very light sleeper. Also, I know my husband. This is different than sending them camping by themselves for days with a complete stranger.

Thank you for thinking I am a good person Not a Tailor and you are as well. I am happy for all of the progress that is being made and I know you and your wife will be happy.

I'm so sorry to hear that, Janelle. I've been hoping and hoping for you all this time.

I do have to say, just as an aside, parents were strongly encouraged to get to know one another and the leaders--most of the leaders were parents of some of the Scouts in the troop and, for example, I was really good friends with Scouter M's daughter, so my parents ended up getting to know him really well. The best way for a Scout troop to run is for parents to be involved and for leaders to know they have parents watching them. Short of isolating kids from all social interaction away from their parents, it's the safest thing there is--parental involvement. I am very, very much for parents getting to know their children's friends' parents and their children's extracurricular activity leaders/teachers/etc.

[Janelle2002 3,865]

I'm so sorry to hear that, Janelle. I've been hoping and hoping for you all this time.

I do have to say, just as an aside, parents were strongly encouraged to get to know one another and the leaders--most of the leaders were parents of some of the Scouts in the troop and, for example, I was really good friends with Scouter M's daughter, so my parents ended up getting to know him really well. The best way for a Scout troop to run is for parents to be involved and for leaders to know they have parents watching them. Short of isolating kids from all social interaction away from their parents, it's the safest thing there is--parental involvement. I am very, very much for parents getting to know their children's friends' parents and their children's extracurricular activity leaders/teachers/etc.

Parental involvement is quite important. My kids schools get tired of seeing me.

It's okay, no worries. Some things are meant to be and some are not. You lose some and you win some. We are just rotting away waiting out this process.

[Teddy B 17,251]

2nd, my husband isn't getting here. We have abandoned all hope and are splitting into 2, you know, like our lives have been for the last 4 years we have been at this.

Sorry to hear that Janelle. I know you went through hell to try to get him here. Sometimes life just isn't fair. I wish you the best.