I-864 RFE

[DaveNot 55]

I recieved recently a RFE for my I-864.

We are a little confused and in debate with my partner regarding this RFE.

The short version, we required a joint sponsor, assuming she made enough and included such evidence along with our AOS having done all the calculations. The joint sponsor, did not include assets before the package was sent. They filled out the I-864 and we sent it along with tax transcripts without the use of assets.

We recieved the RFE stating several things: (picture included in forum post here).

We have put together another package to address all things they are asking for. However, the joint sponsor is now including assets for the RFE, along with tax transcripts.

My question:

On the letter it states that "if you decide to obtain a joint sponsor the will need to:". The letter includes a list of things to send. So, does this mean we need to include them, or is this section refering too another joint sponsor we don't currently have, or the current joint sponsor we do have?

Also, for the joint sponsor... given the joint sponsor didn't previously include assets in the original I-864, does this mean that a new I-864 has to be filled in to reflect that we are now using assets in our application? The RFE doesn't mention this, but the previous question makes me wonder this. Common sense tells me that, a new one will have to be filled in, because they aren't orignally reflected in the original I-864 with a signature attached. They are just documents we are using to address the RFE.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Regards, Dave. Please find attached the RFE letter in this post.

[Morganalmonshid94 84]

I would probably fill out a new one because there is a page to fill out in regards to the prices of assets if they are going to be used in the i864 .

[Nich-Nick 3,353]

I would start over with your joint sponsor and make sure she qualifies. Fill out a new I-864 packet with additional documentation Income as shown on her tax return seems to be all you sent because you only mention that. Do you know the exact shortfall of income?

1)Did her 2014 tax return Line 22 show enough income.

2) Does she have a spouse whose income is lumped in that tax return?

3) Did she include proof of being a USC?

They could disqualify her for incomplete documentation, which means you failed to show that she qualified as your sponsor, even if she actually does. So read the I-864 instructions very thoroughly when you start again.

The part in the RFE about getting a joint sponsor means things you would need if you abandoned the current one and got a different (new) joint sponsor.

[DaveNot 55]

I would start over with your joint sponsor and make sure she qualifies. Fill out a new I-864 packet with additional documentation Income as shown on her tax return seems to be all you sent because you only mention that. Do you know the exact shortfall of income?

1)Did her 2014 tax return Line 22 show enough income.

2) Does she have a spouse whose income is lumped in that tax return?

3) Did she include proof of being a USC?

They could disqualify her for incomplete documentation, which means you failed to show that she qualified as your sponsor, even if she actually does. So read the I-864 instructions very thoroughly when you start again.

The part in the RFE about getting a joint sponsor means things you would need if you abandoned the current one and got a different (new) joint sponsor.

The joint sponsor provided a 2013 record because they hadn't filled 2014 yet (because it was not yet april 15 so we didn't think they would count as manditory, but we now have 2014 which is what they're asking for. The joint sponsor provided proof of USC via passport copies. There is no spouce on their tax return. She is self employed and had an accountant deduct as many things on her taxes as she could so her gross income is a lot more than her adjusted gross income. I read where it is her gross not adjusted gross that counts many places however when the line on her tax form 1040 is specified that is where her adjusted gross income is indicated.(her adjusted gross income is not enough alone but with her real estate assets she doese qualify. Her gross income is shown not on her 1040 but on her 1040 schedule C. So we are wondering which gross or adjusted gross do we need to calculate. There were no issues with her original I-864 other than we weren't including assets and now we are. They did not ask for a new form just proof of assets we may want to include (which we have) so we aren't sure if we might confuse things by submitting another form.

In other words, Schedule C 1040 shows $125,000 as opposed too adjusted at $43,000 which falls below federal poverty guidlines.

We are also reading that 3 years is recommend for those self-employed, this wasn't asked for.

[Nich-Nick 3,353]

She is self employed and had an accountant deduct as many things on her taxes as she could so her gross income is a lot more than her adjusted gross income. I read where it is her gross not adjusted gross that counts many places however when the line on her tax form 1040 is specified that is where her adjusted gross income is indicated.(her adjusted gross income is not enough alone but with her real estate assets she doese qualify. Her gross income is shown not on her 1040 but on her 1040 schedule C. So we are wondering which gross or adjusted gross do we need to calculate. There were no issues with her original I-864 other than we weren't including assets and now we are. They did not ask for a new form just proof of assets we may want to include (which we have) so we aren't sure if we might confuse things by submitting another form.

In other words, Schedule C 1040 shows $125,000 as opposed too adjusted at $43,000 which falls below federal poverty guidlines.

We are also reading that 3 years is recommend for those self-employed, this wasn't asked for.

One the I-864 form http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/files/form/i-864.pdf

part 6, #13abc it tells you to fill in numbers from the tax return

"My total income (adjusted gross income on IRS Form 1040EZ) as reported on my Federal tax returns for the most recent 3 years was:"

If she is self employed, then she did not use Form 1040EZ so omit the parenthetical part giving instructions for 1040EZ. Then you are left with--

"My total income as reported on my Federal tax returns for the most recent 3 years was:"

Her total income is found on Line 22 of form 1040. Form 1040 here http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf

Notice the line says "This is your total income>

So to answer your debate about adjusted gross, Schedule C, etc---if she doesn't qualify with the amount on Line 22 (total income) then that's the main reason for the RFE.

Unfortunately, for self employed the only income counted from schedule C http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040sc.pdf is the net profit or loss (Line 31). Her business income shown on that form is reduced by all the business expenses she claimed. You will find her net profit as income on the 1040 Line 12.

I think it's less confusing to present a new complete package, especially if the first submission did not list numbers (Part 6, #13) from form 1040 Line 22 including the new 2014 return, and if she claimed she earned $125,000 (in Part 6, #5) but that is not backed up by the profit/loss as shown on the tax return. And adding assets to the form makes it all complete. Just my opinion on how I would respond since what they have is rather incomplete and not current.

[DaveNot 55]

Okay, so I think I have all the evidence needed and we meet the federal poverty guidelines.

the letter states needing to meet 125% the main petitioner doesnt, hense the joint sponsor.

the joint sponsor is a household of 3, but the main petitionet is a household of 7. the letter states for the joint sponsors household size of 3. Which seems good given for 3 people it's 22000 roughly and she has 45000 made as adjusted gross for 2014. so sponsoring as a joint sponsor it isn't meeting the household of 7 criteria is of 3. I think that's right.

anyway I think I'll do a new form and ask the joint app sir to sign with the assets as overkill and send them off.

I don't think I need to include documents required for a new affidavit as uscis have these things already. Usc proff, bank statements, birth certificates and such. do think this is a wise move is sgould I do the entire process again having to obtain documents that they should already have?

I hope this makes sense, I feel like I am rambeling and my brains hurts.

[Nich-Nick 3,353]

Okay, so I think I have all the evidence needed and we meet the federal poverty guidelines.

the letter states needing to meet 125% the main petitioner doesnt, hense the joint sponsor.

the joint sponsor is a household of 3, but the main petitionet is a household of 7. the letter states for the joint sponsors household size of 3. Which seems good given for 3 people it's 22000 roughly and she has 45000 made as adjusted gross for 2014. so sponsoring as a joint sponsor it isn't meeting the household of 7 criteria is of 3. I think that's right.

anyway I think I'll do a new form and ask the joint app sir to sign with the assets as overkill and send them off.

I don't think I need to include documents required for a new affidavit as uscis have these things already. Usc proff, bank statements, birth certificates and such. do think this is a wise move is sgould I do the entire process again having to obtain documents that they should already have?

I hope this makes sense, I feel like I am rambeling and my brains hurts.

Yes, you are kinda rambling and I don't think you are comprehending my post or looking at the form links I gave you. Take a break and read my previous post tomorrow.

You just said "she has 45000 made as adjusted gross for 2014." No, no, no to adjusted gross. Look at the form. http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f1040.pdf There is a line called adjusted gross income (Line 37). That is NOT what USCIS is looking at. They don't care about adjusted gross. They care about total income LINE 22.

Clarify who is the joint sponsor's household of three. Her, her kid, and the immigrant? You already said there was no spouse. If that is the case, then she qualifies if line 22 of the 2014 tax return form 1040 is $25,112. Do you have her 2014 tax return? What does Line 22 of form 1040 say?

Also you previously mentioned using her real estate as assets. Read what is required to document that:

You may include the net value of your home as an asset. The net value of the home is the appraised value of the home, minus the sum of any and all loans secured by a mortgage, trust deed, or other lien on the home. If you wish to include the net value of your home, this, you must include documentation demonstrating that you own it, a recent appraisal by a licensed appraiser, and evidence of the amount of any and all loans secured by a mortgage, trust deed, or other lien on the home. You may not include the net value of an automobile unless you show that you have more than one automobile, and at least one automobile is not included as an asset.

That's an appraisal and lots of documents she will need.

Ok so two questions--

Name the three in her household count for the I-864.

State the amount on Line 22 of her tax return Form 1040.

[DaveNot 55]

Okay, so now that my 700 mile drive is complete I can kind of focus, hehe.

So, to answer your questions:

Line 22 and 37 on the 1040 are indentical. Both of which state $45,810.This is the joint sponsor. Yes, the joint sponsor has 3 people listed, me (indending immigrant), her son and herself), this is all we counted for the I-864.

We do have, I believe all documents for the houses that are we are considering to use: Deeds, leins, mortgage, pay off statements and the city tax assessment for the property (current 2015 estimate). Which I believe I read can be used. In total it worked out at $95,000 (roughly), minus any loans on the property.

My spouse and I are the household of 7 (main petitioner). She couldn't meet the requirements for the household size. We couldn't work out if the joint sponsor has to meet the household size of 7, or 3 (which is herself as the joint sponsor). Either way, I think it is 3, reading the RFE.

So, reading your post and going over everything, it seems we're fine if its for the household of 3.

Given all this, and the mistakes made on the previous i-864 (stating 125,000 orignally), do you still think a new i-864 is required? Or should I just send in the evidence of the 2014 tax (the actual tax return) and all they ask? They do have all the proff of USC and stuff we previously sent, so just trying to avoid the extra work, but if it helps the case to redo it, then obviously we need to do that.

Thank you for the help so far Nich Nick and spelling out my mistakes. You know sometimes it takes spelling out to me lol .

Please tell me im set lol

[Nich-Nick 3,353]

Given all this, and the mistakes made on the previous i-864 (stating 125,000 orignally), do you still think a new i-864 is required? Or should I just send in the evidence of the 2014 tax (the actual tax return) and all they ask? They do have all the proff of USC and stuff we previously sent, so just trying to avoid the extra work, but if it helps the case to redo it, then obviously we need to do that.

Well for the third time...I would send in a completely new, everything included, absolutely perfect, affidavit of support packet from the joint sponsor. But you don't want to do that so it's your choice.

Now that you have established she has a household size of 3 and a documented income of $45k, there is no reason she didn't qualify and needed to show assets. So there was something else wrong with your packet...likely both the I-864 and the documentation. I would analyze what was wrong that they rejected it as presented. Do you trust that they will see a pile of real estate documents thrown at them and piece it all together when it was the original form that was broken? Did it have 2014 income on it? Did it have 2014 tax data? Does it total her assets since you are choosing to add them?

[DaveNot 55]

I have built a new package this morning. And gone through everything and even contacted uscis. it seems it's what they want. Sorry if it feels like I'm not reading, your advice. I'm sort of panicking and trying to get it right and not thinking clearly.

I'm happy just sending tax returns, bank statements and usc evidence without needing assets. We both are panicking over it, but my wife wants to include assets as a back up incase we missed something... That's the current dilemma.

To answer your questions: they rejected 2013 taxes without assets listed from the joint sponsor. 2014 was not on there. My wife listed assets, but I guess that's not enough, even though there is no mortgage on the property and it's owned outright. I think due to hardship prevention.

assets come in at 95000 and more than exceeds the requirements as they aren't needed.

Anyway, I hope this paints a clear picture and thanks again for the advice.