Submitting N-400 with no permanent residence due to full time travel

[Marcus4 0]

Hi All,

I'm about to apply for naturalization and I'm a bit worried because and my wife and I don't have a permanent residence because we travel contantly (within the U.S.).

Until about 1 year ago we lived in Florida, and we're still based there in the sense that our official address (for our business, drivers license etc.) is a street address provided by the company that manages our mail. We have an online business and like to travel around the country staying in short term rental apartments.

I'm worried because in the "general eligibility requirements" it says the following:

"You have lived within the state or USCIS district where you claim residence for at least 3 months prior to filing"

I'm planning on submitting N-400 using our mailing address as our "residence", but also providing an appendix explaining our situation and listing all the places we've "lived" in the past year.

I called USCIS and spoke to a tier-2 operator, but she wasn't very helpful, and had never encountered a situation like ours before. She seemed to brush it off and said "it should be fine", but I worry an adjudicator will see it differently.

Does anyone know how USCIS is likely to respond?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Marcus

[2ndMessiah 184]

It must have been a real pain informing the USCIS everytime you moved.

As to naturalization, all I can do is wish you all the best.

[Ian H. 207]

This is curious, I'm not sure how USCIS would feel about this kind of situation. Their requirements do state that you have to live in the district or state for at least 3 months. I'm not at all sure if there may be an exemption to that requirement. Generally, what is a big deal is living out of the country, not out of different states. You may want to schedule an infopass appointment, they may be able to give you better insight.

I personally think, that it may be perfectly possible that they may make an exception to this kind of situation. The reason being that you consider yourselves residents of Florida, even though you travel around the country.

Do you file taxes in Florida? I'm not sure if there is income tax there. But basically anything that could prove ties to one state may help. Your DL's are one thing, but what about credit cards, insurance policies, property, etc. Having these things in FL may help you prove that you are residents of FL, even if you aren't technically there at the moment.

Sometimes government agencies don't have clear cut policies about this kind of situation. My cousin for example, moved to Boston for like 3 months in 2013 with his wife, and it was a nightmare doing taxes because there was no policy whatsoever in either state about being partial residents all in the same year. Usually it's I lived in state XX in the beginning of the year, then moved to XY for the end of the year. I assume it must be a nightmare for you guys to do taxes as well. Hopefully you can get a straight answer from someone and good luck.

[mtempelaar 190]

You may need to talk an experienced immigration attorney for this. It sounds like this is voluntary and not a requirement of the work. Have you considered stopping your travels for a few months so you can file and fall within the guidelines fully? 3 Months of your life to get a lifetime of security seems like a good exchange.

Edited September 7, 2014 by mtempelaar

[Ian H. 207]

I don't think it's necessary to spend money on a lawyer for this kind of situation since the OP hasn't done anything even remotely close to being an immigration problem. The USCIS has a policy on residency and for this kind of situation they can either deny his application or make an exception.

Worst case scenario, his petition would be denied based on failing to meet the 3 month state/district residency requirement. He may be able to refile afterwards once he has 3 months fixed in one state.

He can contact a lawyer if his application is denied, but because it has already been submitted I'm not sure what a lawyer can do at this point since the requirement had to be met before filing.

To the OP: It's entirely up to you if you feel that it's necessary to hire an attorney.

[Marcus4 0]

@2ndMessiah Yeah, that was a problem initially, but I managed to get onto someone at USCIS who seemed knolwedgable and they said that it doesn't really matter where we are as long as they have our mailing address and we get all their correspondence. That was certainly a relief.

@Ian H. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Your post made me feel a little better. They don't have state income tax in FL, but we do pay city and county business taxes, and we file our federal income taxes as FL residents. Because we don't spend 6 months or more in any other states, we don't have to pay taxes there, which makes it easy. Our banking and credit cards also list us as FL residents. So I think I can overwhelm any adjudicator with enough evidence to declare my case an exception. Although, I can't help expecting the worst when it comes to dealing with bureacracies For that reason, I might look into getting an infopass appointment (which I hadn't previously considered).

@mtempelaar Thanks for your suggestions. Our traveling is indeed voluntary. We have considered staying in FL for a few months, but we've already booked acommodation as far ahead as Oct 2015, and I'd hate to wait until then. Thanks for the attorney suggestion. That would probably get me some concrete answers, but I feel confident in rolling the dice or maybe getting an infopass appt. I'd hate to lose the $680 if I get denied, but at least they seem to make it easy to apply again.

[Ian H. 207]

It definitely sounds like you should be fine. Even though you spend your time traveling, you have FL established as your state of residence. Just the fact that you pay taxes as FL residents should be more than enough proof and if FL had state income tax, I'm sure you would have had that as well.

I would like to point out that having a "place of residence" doesn't have to involve actually living there, but the fact that you consider it your residence for all intents and purposes. Think about a wealthy business traveler, who spends the entire year out of his home due to business meetings and so forth, but has a residence. Is he not considered a resident even though he pays taxes, bills, etc with and for that residence, but just isn't physically there? Of course not, he's very much a resident. Same goes for students who are away at school, people who work in other countries, etc.

Therefore, just because you physically don't own a home or rent an apt in FL, doesn't make you any less FL residents especially if you pay FL taxes on your business, have FL DL's, etc. That would be an unnecessary expense. Also, the fact that your travel is voluntary is not an issue as you have every right to travel whenever and wherever you want within the US. There is no law that precludes you as an LPR from traveling around the US, the law is strictly about spending certain time outside of the country.

[kcoyclay1 98]

Hi All,

I'm about to apply for naturalization and I'm a bit worried because and my wife and I don't have a permanent residence because we travel contantly (within the U.S.).

Until about 1 year ago we lived in Florida, and we're still based there in the sense that our official address (for our business, drivers license etc.) is a street address provided by the company that manages our mail. We have an online business and like to travel around the country staying in short term rental apartments.

I'm worried because in the "general eligibility requirements" it says the following:

"You have lived within the state or USCIS district where you claim residence for at least 3 months prior to filing"

I'm planning on submitting N-400 using our mailing address as our "residence", but also providing an appendix explaining our situation and listing all the places we've "lived" in the past year.

I called USCIS and spoke to a tier-2 operator, but she wasn't very helpful, and had never encountered a situation like ours before. She seemed to brush it off and said "it should be fine", but I worry an adjudicator will see it differently.

Does anyone know how USCIS is likely to respond?

Thanks in advance!

Cheers,

Marcus

I think traveling for business is different than residing in the state unless you have no permanent address and you are doing month to month rentals. I think that would change the situation. Isn't your mailing address your permanent address while you are traveling for work? Or is it just an address for the convenience of receiving your mail? Who picks up the tab for your rentals while you work? Do you pay rent for the address where your mail is sent or is it just a PO Box? Which address is your stable address while you travel for work? I'm thinking of the example of pilots who have travel all over and live in hotels most of the time, yet there place of residence is their home address and not the hotels in which they stay. What do you think of this? Ian H. hit the nail on its head.You should be okay. Don't view the question on a literal level. Look at what makes you a resident. It is not that you are physically there, it's that it is your home while you work in various states. I'm sure it would be inconvenient for you to travel back home from different states just so you can technically reside there based on the wording of an immigration document. Have a great day.

[Marcus4 0]

It definitely sounds like you should be fine. Even though you spend your time traveling, you have FL established as your state of residence. Just the fact that you pay taxes as FL residents should be more than enough proof and if FL had state income tax, I'm sure you would have had that as well.

I would like to point out that having a "place of residence" doesn't have to involve actually living there, but the fact that you consider it your residence for all intents and purposes. Think about a wealthy business traveler, who spends the entire year out of his home due to business meetings and so forth, but has a residence. Is he not considered a resident even though he pays taxes, bills, etc with and for that residence, but just isn't physically there? Of course not, he's very much a resident. Same goes for students who are away at school, people who work in other countries, etc.

Therefore, just because you physically don't own a home or rent an apt in FL, doesn't make you any less FL residents especially if you pay FL taxes on your business, have FL DL's, etc. That would be an unnecessary expense. Also, the fact that your travel is voluntary is not an issue as you have every right to travel whenever and wherever you want within the US. There is no law that precludes you as an LPR from traveling around the US, the law is strictly about spending certain time outside of the country.

Thanks Ian, I'm feeling pretty good now about proving that we're technically FL residents. I've already started accumulating a pile of documents showing our FL mailing address. In all other ways I make the perfect candidate for naturalization, so hopefully that outweighs the residence issue.

I think traveling for business is different than residing in the state unless you have no permanent address and you are doing month to month rentals. I think that would change the situation. Isn't your mailing address your permanent address while you are traveling for work? Or is it just an address for the convenience of receiving your mail? Who picks up the tab for your rentals while you work? Do you pay rent for the address where your mail is sent or is it just a PO Box? Which address is your stable address while you travel for work? I'm thinking of the example of pilots who have travel all over and live in hotels most of the time, yet there place of residence is their home address and not the hotels in which they stay. What do you think of this? Ian H. hit the nail on its head.You should be okay. Don't view the question on a literal level. Look at what makes you a resident. It is not that you are physically there, it's that it is your home while you work in various states. I'm sure it would be inconvenient for you to travel back home from different states just so you can technically reside there based on the wording of an immigration document. Have a great day.

Thanks, kcoyclay1. One thing that worries me is that the street address we use in Florida is not owned by us in any way, but by a mail management company. It's main purpose is to receive our mail and act as a "residence" for things like driver's license, banking etc. On the N-400 form it asks for your current residence, so technically it isn't our residence, which changes from month to month. I'm just hoping the adjudicator will agree that we're still FL residents despite the fact that we don't technically maintain a residence there. I know from experience that different bureaucrats often interpret the rules in different ways, but as long as I don't get someone difficult, I think I'll be fine.

[kcoyclay1 98]

Thanks Ian, I'm feeling pretty good now about proving that we're technically FL residents. I've already started accumulating a pile of documents showing our FL mailing address. In all other ways I make the perfect candidate for naturalization, so hopefully that outweighs the residence issue.

Thanks, kcoyclay1. One thing that worries me is that the street address we use in Florida is not owned by us in any way, but by a mail management company. It's main purpose is to receive our mail and act as a "residence" for things like driver's license, banking etc. On the N-400 form it asks for your current residence, so technically it isn't our residence, which changes from month to month. I'm just hoping the adjudicator will agree that we're still FL residents despite the fact that we don't technically maintain a residence there. I know from experience that different bureaucrats often interpret the rules in different ways, but as long as I don't get someone difficult, I think I'll be fine.

I don't think you will be penalized because your job takes you from state to state. However, how often do you return to Florida? During the process you will be sent letters for the process, and if you are away for long lengths of time, you may miss deadlines, dates, and requests. Your biometrics will have to be done there and also your interview and oath taking; is your job flexible enough for you to journey back to Florida to pick up your mail and honor those appointments? I'm just thinking about your situation.

I saw reference to you getting information from an attorney; If you like you can log in to justanswer.com and for $15 an immigration lawyer can give you some answers. However, with your taxes being paid in Florida and all your documents revealing that you are a Florida resident, I don't even think that is necessary. Where you temporarily stop over for business is not your home and you do not reside there, so I would say you are okay.

Edited September 7, 2014 by kcoyclay1

[Marcus4 0]

Thanks for the justanswer.com tip kcoyclay1. I'll keep that in mind if they start giving me problems.

We're lucky to be self-employed, so it makes us very flexible. We're going to be in Florida for 6 weeks in Nov/Dec, so I'm going to time my application so that I can do the biometrics while I'm there. As for the interview and the oath, we'll be back out West by then, so we'll just have to fly over and stay in a hotel for a night or two. I've been trying accumulate lots of frequent flyer miles to pay for it!

As for our mail, the company just sends us a batch every two weeks wherever we are. After I apply I'll get them to send us a batch once a week, just to be sure I get everything on time.

Logically, it would have been much easier to just wait a few years until we finally decide to buy an apartment somewhere, but I'm kind of like a kid waiting for my birthday. There's no way I'm going to put it off!

[kcoyclay1 98]

Thanks for the justanswer.com tip kcoyclay1. I'll keep that in mind if they start giving me problems.

We're lucky to be self-employed, so it makes us very flexible. We're going to be in Florida for 6 weeks in Nov/Dec, so I'm going to time my application so that I can do the biometrics while I'm there. As for the interview and the oath, we'll be back out West by then, so we'll just have to fly over and stay in a hotel for a night or two. I've been trying accumulate lots of frequent flyer miles to pay for it!

As for our mail, the company just sends us a batch every two weeks wherever we are. After I apply I'll get them to send us a batch once a week, just to be sure I get everything on time.

Logically, it would have been much easier to just wait a few years until we finally decide to buy an apartment somewhere, but I'm kind of like a kid waiting for my birthday. There's no way I'm going to put it off!

I don't see it as a problem. Can you imagine USCIS not understanding that your job takes you out of state and require you to stop your livelihood just so that you can "be a physical resident" of a state before they can approve you for citizenship? You would only be going back to work afterwards and living out of your base state as you are presently doing. In that case, they should do the same for the military with the understanding that they will be living out of state for a long time as they train. I don;t see a problem. You have a state of permanent residence and your job travels should not affect it.

[kcoyclay1 98]

Thanks for the justanswer.com tip kcoyclay1. I'll keep that in mind if they start giving me problems.

We're lucky to be self-employed, so it makes us very flexible. We're going to be in Florida for 6 weeks in Nov/Dec, so I'm going to time my application so that I can do the biometrics while I'm there. As for the interview and the oath, we'll be back out West by then, so we'll just have to fly over and stay in a hotel for a night or two. I've been trying accumulate lots of frequent flyer miles to pay for it!

As for our mail, the company just sends us a batch every two weeks wherever we are. After I apply I'll get them to send us a batch once a week, just to be sure I get everything on time.

Logically, it would have been much easier to just wait a few years until we finally decide to buy an apartment somewhere, but I'm kind of like a kid waiting for my birthday. There's no way I'm going to put it off!

I understand what you mean by your last statement. All naturalizing applicant feel that way and it is evident in our many questions and posts about the timeline and the processing period. All the best

[Marcus4 0]

I thought I'd post an update in case people in a similar situation find this thread.

I had my interview today and they couldn't approve me because, although we're legal Florida residents, our travel means that we haven't been actually living in the state for 3 months prior to filing the application. The interviewer was really nice about it and checked with his supervisor and someone he described as the "mother of the N-400", but ultimately he said they have to follow the letter of the law. The only option was to withdraw my application and wait to apply until we settle down in one place. He said that they don't discriminate against you for having to reapply.

It's frustrating, but obviously the people who designed the application didn't anticipate people like us who travel full time.