[Henia]

As I was browsing the Dept of State travel page for MENA (looking for something on Israel -->see MENA entry refusals) I read some bits about exit permits. I know exit permits are a common thing for various countries, mostly for political, international child abduction, and antiquities theft prevention reasons... But also for people leaving the country as immigrates to other countries (ie: giving up citizenship, political refugees, refugees of war, nationals exiting countries that have closed borders, etc)
... but came to mind that many MENA countries have this practice in place as per the having elements of Islamic Sharia in the civil law/ Family Codes.
In MENA examples are in the KSA and the Gulf states (that I am familiar with anyway, if you know of any other countries, plz list them for us) where married women need to obtain the premission of their husbands and unmarried women and children premission from their fathers. Many women even if traveling to MENA, as a non-immigrants and tourists, that requires no sponsorship are still required to obtain exit premits. Remember the film Not without my daughter. (Not a islamic issue as some people have described it but a martial-child custody issue where the woman was not allowed to leave Iran and had to ecsape) As the Dept of Sate page states:

Quote

Once overseas, you are subject to the laws of the country where you are; U.S. law cannot protect you.

And something to remember

Quote

If you travel or allow your children to travel, be aware of the laws of the country you plan to visit.

I am not a USC yet, but when I traveled to DZ I visited my embassy to get some translations certified, the consul recorded my entry into DZ, and more to the point of my topic gave me a booklet of the laws and regulations of Algerie. I knew most of that was written in it, but still appreciate the gesture. I myself, have no fears since I know my husband well enough to know what his thinking is and in Algerie an exit permit is not required. (It is a democratic country) but women are still legally considered minorities.

So I wondering if anyone here was reuquired to obtain an exit premit or their SO to be able to come to the US?!
Or anyone worked in a country where an exit premit was required by your sponsoring employer?
And is everyone here familiar with your SO's civil law/family code?
And does anyone here think an exit premit is a violation of civil rights? (right to leave at any time)

For reference:
Mudawana, the Morroccan Family Code.
Code de Familie, the Algerien Family code.
Egyptien Judical System, Egyptien civil code

Unforunately, I was not able to come with any more countries. Sorry if I left you out.

This post has been edited by Henia: 21 January 2007 - 02:17 AM

[Donna A]

when my husband worked in saudi arabia he needed a exit permit to leave to go visit his family in syria. they checked his police record first and was not granted one because of a speeding ticket he didnt pay. so he had to pay it and they gave him his exit permit and passport.

as for me after i married hassan in syria i didnt need anything to leave. i guess he could have got a court order and made me stay if he wanted to.

[Henia]

donnaal, on Jan 21 2007, 02:29 AM, said:

as for me after i married hassan in syria i didnt need anything to leave. i guess he could have got a court order and made me stay if he wanted to.

As funny as that may sound just when you read it, serious stuff thou. I am sure everyone here is intelligent enough to know what type of situation they will be getting themselves into, but some, unforuntately are not.

[Donna A]

yeah it is serious stuff. also if we have a son and register him as a syrian he will have to do manditory military time and never have even stepped foot on syrian soil just cuz his dad is syrian and i supose if we had a daughter and he would take her there....she would need his permission to leave also even tho she is american citizen. so watch out for ur kids too.

maybe this is something that should be written in the marriege contract that the husband can never forbid the wife from leaving the country.

This post has been edited by donnaal: 21 January 2007 - 03:24 AM

[Henia]

donnaal, on Jan 21 2007, 03:23 AM, said:

yeah it is serious stuff. also if we have a son and register him as a syrian he will have to do manditory military time and never have even stepped foot on syrian soil just cuz his dad is syrian and i supose if we had a daughter and he would take her there....she would need his permission to leave also even tho she is american citizen. so watch out for ur kids too.

maybe this is something that should be written in the marriege contract that the husband can never forbid the wife from leaving the country.

Yup! I know it is definately written in mine!
Military time is also required for children born to Algerien nationals.

[MrsAmera]

If you are a US Citizen your husband can not make you stay in the country and no court order can be upheld. American citizens are allowed to leave the country at any point without any permission. I looked into this when researching for my family who thought I would be kidnapped and sold into white slavery in Morocco. (You know those Arabs love white girls don't you?....another topic). Anyway, I think that as far as children go, their status as US citizens does hold some weight, however if they hold dual citizenship - i.e. my son is a Moroccan and American citizen, then there are some rules that go into place as long as they are on Moroccan soil. Morocco has a pretty liberal personal status code as far as they go in the region so I think it would be very difficult for a dual-national child to be held in the country, and if the American parent were to involve the US embassy I have a feeling the child would be released quite quickly. However when I entered Morocco with my son (of whom I have sole custody of) I had to have his birth certificate and passport and was questioned as to the whereabouts of his father and whether he knew I was taking the child out of the US (try explaining that in broken French.) Ultimately because mine was the only name on the birth certificate at the time we were not given any problems and allowed in. However, if his biological fathers name were on the paper I think things could have gotten more complicated. I had the same problems when we crossed from Detroit to Windsor so I think it must be an international standard and has little to do with the ME/NA.

[Henia]

AmeraMouttaki, on Jan 21 2007, 09:39 PM, said:

However when I entered Morocco with my son (of whom I have sole custody of) I had to have his birth certificate and passport and was questioned as to the whereabouts of his father and whether he knew I was taking the child out of the US (try explaining that in broken French.) Ultimately because mine was the only name on the birth certificate at the time we were not given any problems and allowed in. However, if his biological fathers name were on the paper I think things could have gotten more complicated. I had the same problems when we crossed from Detroit to Windsor so I think it must be an international standard and has little to do with the ME/NA.

It was very easy the first time to get a passport for my daughter. All I needed was her birth certificate and the passport came within a month. I have had no problems traveling with her either. In fact, I live in MI near the border and we cross over alot. And I have taken her to Europe several and even to Turkey.
Her passport got abit damaged, a page was slightly torn, so in order to save hassles with the aiport officers I reapply for her. This time around much much more harder. The women at the post office looked at me with suspious eyes, even thou I had all my paperwork in order. So probably the laws have been updated It has been 10 weeks and still no passport.

[chris4336]

Henia, on Jan 21 2007, 09:04 PM, said:

Military time is also required for children born to Algerien nationals.

Does this mean my children (when/if I have them) will be required to serve in the Algerian military???

Just when we were starting to get things figured out...why is it always something.

[MrsAmera]

A lot of countries allow dual-nationality for children but at a certain age (like 16 or 18) they must choose a citizenship. So I think that any child you may have could choose American citizenship and renounce Algerian citizenship but who knows what kinds of hassles that also might put in place if the child wanted to travel back to Algeria at some point.

[doodlebug]

Henia, on Jan 21 2007, 02:13 AM, said:

As I was browsing the Dept of State travel page for MENA (looking for something on Israel -->see MENA entry refusals) I read some bits about exit permits. I know exit permits are a common thing for various countries, mostly for political, international child abduction, and antiquities theft prevention reasons... But also for people leaving the country as immigrates to other countries (ie: giving up citizenship, political refugees, refugees of war, nationals exiting countries that have closed borders, etc)
... but came to mind that many MENA countries have this practice in place as per the having elements of Islamic Sharia in the civil law/ Family Codes.
In MENA examples are in the KSA and the Gulf states (that I am familiar with anyway, if you know of any other countries, plz list them for us) where married women need to obtain the premission of their husbands and unmarried women and children premission from their fathers. Many women even if traveling to MENA, as a non-immigrants and tourists, that requires no sponsorship are still required to obtain exit premits. Remember the film Not without my daughter. (Not a islamic issue as some people have described it but a martial-child custody issue where the woman was not allowed to leave Iran and had to ecsape) As the Dept of Sate page states:

Quote

Once overseas, you are subject to the laws of the country where you are; U.S. law cannot protect you.

And something to remember

Quote

If you travel or allow your children to travel, be aware of the laws of the country you plan to visit.

I am not a USC yet, but when I traveled to DZ I visited my embassy to get some translations certified, the consul recorded my entry into DZ, and more to the point of my topic gave me a booklet of the laws and regulations of Algerie. I knew most of that was written in it, but still appreciate the gesture. I myself, have no fears since I know my husband well enough to know what his thinking is and in Algerie an exit permit is not required. (It is a democratic country) but women are still legally considered minorities.

So I wondering if anyone here was reuquired to obtain an exit premit or their SO to be able to come to the US?!
Or anyone worked in a country where an exit premit was required by your sponsoring employer?
And is everyone here familiar with your SO's civil law/family code?
And does anyone here think an exit premit is a violation of civil rights? (right to leave at any time)

For reference:
Mudawana, the Morroccan Family Code.
Code de Familie, the Algerien Family code.
Egyptien Judical System, Egyptien civil code

Unforunately, I was not able to come with any more countries. Sorry if I left you out.

The link for the Egyptian civil code isn't working for me.

That being said, before I left for Egypt I had written the US Embassy's Consulate office and asked them outright if I would be able to leave the country once I was married even if my husband didn't want me to. They stated that yes I am free to come and go as I please. I printed that out and brought it with me...just in case...though I really didn't have any bigtime worries since he knows that I am vital to my children.

I think, though I'm not certain where I read this, that the wife, as long as she's a US citizen, can come and go as she pleases but that a permissive letter needs to be written by the father for the children to come and go since children of an Egyptian man are automatically Egyptians. I'm sure someone like moody would know more about that though. My own kids would never be in jeapordy since they are not his children.

[Donna A]

chris4336, on Jan 21 2007, 10:15 PM, said:

Henia, on Jan 21 2007, 09:04 PM, said:

Military time is also required for children born to Algerien nationals.

Does this mean my children (when/if I have them) will be required to serve in the Algerian military???

Just when we were starting to get things figured out...why is it always something.

only if u register his birth with the algerian embassy. if u dont register it then they will never know.