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Cannon

K1 and VWP for Australian marrying USC and Prem

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Filed: Other Country: Australia
Timeline

Hello! This is my first time using this forum and I've only read some very small threads about similar journeys similar to mine.

I'm a 20 y/o (21 this year) Australian soon to go to the US on a VWP to visit my girlfriend (19 this year) that I've been with for three years that I met on the internet. This will be my first time seeing her face-to-face.

Here are my concerns.

I do not initially plan on marriage, however getting engaged would be a nice thing but I don't think I could go so far as to say I "intend on marrying" which is why I have sort of dismissed filing for a K1 so soon. However, if we do like each other a lot and do want to get engaged during my 3 months stay on the VWP, what steps should we take? I don't want to lie or attempt to 'cheat' the system by circumventing, and right now I plan on telling the IO that I'm visiting as a tourist and staying with my girlfriend and friends and I will be showing my return ticket and also be telling the IO that I plan on returning.

My problem is that I don't know if my girlfriend and I would get engaged during my stay so I don't know about the 'we might' being an intent to get married, however if we do wish to get engaged, would it be safe and okay on the VWP since at the current time of arrival I do not 100% intend on getting married because of being unsure how it all could go down?

I've compiled an extremely basic plan that was pieced together from what others have gone through.

Visit America on VWP with intention to stay with my girlfriend as a tourist and see how things go between her and I, and make a play based on what happens with the following:

- We want to get engaged and plan on filing for K1 and have me depart to Australia during the processing time, and return back when it's finished

- We don't want to get engaged at the current time but we do in the future, which will result in filing for K1 before my next visit and go up there on the K1 instead on another VWP.

Both plans are similar because if we do want to get engaged it'll all follow the same path, and if we don't want to get engaged then we'll just keep revisiting.

I'm looking for help to do with my concerns, and for planning advice.

Thanks

PS it's also worth to note that I'm aware that we are an extremely young couple to be married so I'm very interested in hearing methods of extending my stay based on living with my girlfriend WITHOUT the intention of marrying until we're much older.

Edited by Cannon
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Just tell CBP you are visiting your girlfriend, thats it. if you mention marriage they may well suspect you of trying to stay. Nothing to stop you getting engaged and filing for a K1 while you are there though.

Sounds to me like you ought to visit a few times and see where you want to go. Nothing to stop you visiting whilst filing for k1 and the process is ongoing. Just be aware if you file for and get a K1 then it has an expiry date, when you enter the US with it you have 90 days to get married and the k1 is done (on entry). make sure before you spend a load of money you are actually going to use the k1.

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Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Kenya
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I do not initially plan on marriage, however getting engaged would be a nice thing but I don't think I could go so far as to say I "intend on marrying" which is why I have sort of dismissed filing for a K1 so soon. However, if we do like each other a lot and do want to get engaged during my 3 months stay on the VWP, what steps should we take?

You can do that. Yes the K-1 is only for those couples who have already agreed to become married within the timeline the requirements require.

I don't want to lie or attempt to 'cheat' the system by circumventing, and right now I plan on telling the IO that I'm visiting as a tourist and staying with my girlfriend and friends and I will be showing my return ticket and also be telling the IO that I plan on returning.

Must tell the truth. Come over on teh VWP and leave when it is time to do so by the VWP requirements.

My problem is that I don't know if my girlfriend and I would get engaged during my stay so I don't know about the 'we might' being an intent to get married, however if we do wish to get engaged, would it be safe and okay on the VWP since at the current time of arrival I do not 100% intend on getting married because of being unsure how it all could go down?

All seems fine.......but you must leave the US within the time requirements of the VWP process. You two CAN begin the K-1 process while you are here. You may be able to revisit on the VWP later during tthis process.....but maybe you will not be allowed back in. Plan for the latter but try for the former.

Visit America on VWP with intention to stay with my girlfriend as a tourist and see how things go between her and I, and make a play based on what happens with the following:

Perfect

- We want to get engaged and plan on filing for K1 and have me depart to Australia during the processing time, and return back when it's finished

Excellent

- We don't want to get engaged at the current time but we do in the future, which will result in filing for K1 before my next visit and go up there on the K1 instead on another VWP.

You can try to revisit on the VWP but may get turned away. Staying away until you have the K-1 works also.

Phil (Lockport, near Chicago) and Alla (Lobnya, near Moscow)

As of Dec 7, 2009, now Zero miles apart (literally)!

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Don't over think this now. Don't put the cart before the horse. Go see her and then make plans based on that.

AOS for my husband
8/17/10: INTERVIEW DAY (day 123) APPROVED!!

ROC:
5/23/12: Sent out package
2/06/13: APPROVED!

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Filed: Other Country: Australia
Timeline

Don't over think this now. Don't put the cart before the horse. Go see her and then make plans based on that.

Of course, I'm just worried about getting my information and intentions mixed up and essentially put in the wrong order and end up messing it up and being caught on fraud when honestly I never intended any incidents and it's just a bundle of things in the air.

I'm not sure what the person meant about not being able to visit again on a VWP, did he mean that I can only go on a VWP once or that I can't visit the US on a VWP if I'm in the middle of the K1? I've also looked up things to do with a B2 visa but I'm unsure about my qualifications about it, a lot of the information I found was vague.

Essentially my plans are to visit and stay for as long as I could possibly visit for, I'm okay with returning back to Australia but if that's the case I'd really want to return soon and with the ability to seek permanent residence through K1. it's just also worth to note that during this whole thing we might get engaged and evidently that will be the way I'd end up getting permanent residence in the US, which is why I'm leaning on the future K1 after or maybe during my initial stay.

I don't know about applying for a K1 during my VWP stay, people say that's a risky thing to do even if it's planned and I'm really against the idea of barring myself from the US but a lot of information I've read about it being risky is more like fear mongering than anything else. If we were to get engaged, it would be a decision at the time/heat of the moment and not us two right now going 'okay we're getting engaged/married on xx date when you're here' and as I stated before my biggest concerns is how much of an 'intent to marry' is with being unsure about what could happen with literally zero planning about anything to do with it.

I'm scared about coming off as a liar and accidentaly committing fraud on the VWP if we do get a spur of the moment engagement. I'm not mentioning marriage to the IO because that is not my intention of visiting, my intention is to see my girlfriend for the first time.

Edited by Cannon
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Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Kenya
Timeline

I'm not sure what the person meant about not being able to visit again on a VWP, did he mean that I can only go on a VWP once or that I can't visit the US on a VWP if I'm in the middle of the K1? I've also looked up things to do with a B2 visa but I'm unsure about my qualifications about it, a lot of the information I found was vague.

I'll be happy to clarify. Despite having ANY visa placed into your passport is not guarantee that you'll be allowed to enter the US. The CBP (border control) answer to a different authority and have the means to deny entry to anyone, regardless of the visa and regardless of what they say.

What was meant, and what can and sometimes (sometimes the operative word) is the once the K-1 petition is filed, the CBP officers will see that in their system. Here you come along, using the VWP, attempting to enter the US. The K-1, by definition, assumes there is intent to reside in the US. CBP could conclude that you may be trying to enter the US earlier than the K-1 and could deny entry if there is not sufficient evidence that you understand the rules and will return within the VWP deadline.

Many are allowed entry and sometimes some are denied. The generic warning is don't be too angry if you are denied....there are many of things one can do to ensure entry.....we can discuss those after you guys file the K-1.

And being totally biased, the majority of foreign fiance(e)s are not even allowed to have a visitor's visa, let alone a VWP....ir in the case of Canada, no visa required to visit. consider yourself lucky to be allowed into the VWP program.

Phil (Lockport, near Chicago) and Alla (Lobnya, near Moscow)

As of Dec 7, 2009, now Zero miles apart (literally)!

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Of course, I'm just worried about getting my information and intentions mixed up and essentially put in the wrong order and end up messing it up and being caught on fraud when honestly I never intended any incidents and it's just a bundle of things in the air.

I'm not sure what the person meant about not being able to visit again on a VWP, did he mean that I can only go on a VWP once or that I can't visit the US on a VWP if I'm in the middle of the K1? I've also looked up things to do with a B2 visa but I'm unsure about my qualifications about it, a lot of the information I found was vague.

Essentially my plans are to visit and stay for as long as I could possibly visit for, I'm okay with returning back to Australia but if that's the case I'd really want to return soon and with the ability to seek permanent residence through K1. it's just also worth to note that during this whole thing we might get engaged and evidently that will be the way I'd end up getting permanent residence in the US, which is why I'm leaning on the future K1 after or maybe during my initial stay.

I don't know about applying for a K1 during my VWP stay, people say that's a risky thing to do even if it's planned and I'm really against the idea of barring myself from the US but a lot of information I've read about it being risky is more like fear mongering than anything else. If we were to get engaged, it would be a decision at the time/heat of the moment and not us two right now going 'okay we're getting engaged/married on xx date when you're here' and as I stated before my biggest concerns is how much of an 'intent to marry' is with being unsure about what could happen with literally zero planning about anything to do with it.

I'm scared about coming off as a liar and accidentaly committing fraud on the VWP if we do get a spur of the moment engagement. I'm not mentioning marriage to the IO because that is not my intention of visiting, my intention is to see my girlfriend for the first time.

Which is why you are overthinking things. You are following some kind of circular logic where you don't want to lie, so you are thinking of how best to appear not to lie, by thinking of all the things it could be construed as, and therefore are making yourself look and feel like you are lying.

There is too much to explain here, but rest assured it is not illegal to visit your girlfriend. That's all you really need to worry about. You have read too many things and are mixing up different things and getting confused.

You have never met her so I hope you aren't seriously considering marrying her right away. That would be rash.

Focus on your visit and relax :) Good luck.

AOS for my husband
8/17/10: INTERVIEW DAY (day 123) APPROVED!!

ROC:
5/23/12: Sent out package
2/06/13: APPROVED!

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Filed: Other Country: Australia
Timeline

I'll be happy to clarify. Despite having ANY visa placed into your passport is not guarantee that you'll be allowed to enter the US. The CBP (border control) answer to a different authority and have the means to deny entry to anyone, regardless of the visa and regardless of what they say.

What was meant, and what can and sometimes (sometimes the operative word) is the once the K-1 petition is filed, the CBP officers will see that in their system. Here you come along, using the VWP, attempting to enter the US. The K-1, by definition, assumes there is intent to reside in the US. CBP could conclude that you may be trying to enter the US earlier than the K-1 and could deny entry if there is not sufficient evidence that you understand the rules and will return within the VWP deadline.

Many are allowed entry and sometimes some are denied. The generic warning is don't be too angry if you are denied....there are many of things one can do to ensure entry.....we can discuss those after you guys file the K-1.

And being totally biased, the majority of foreign fiance(e)s are not even allowed to have a visitor's visa, let alone a VWP....ir in the case of Canada, no visa required to visit. consider yourself lucky to be allowed into the VWP program.

I'm grateful for all the systems and the amount of care and the amount of legal interest there is in all this, it gives me a sense of security and I'm not the kind of person in the slightest to ever abuse anything like that, I could never bring myself up to doing anything wrong on such a scale like that, I feel bad for keeping lights on in the bathroom that ends up blinding moths.

I would accept and acknowledged the chances of being denied entry if I'm currently in the mid application of the K1, that's fine by me because it all makes sense because of how it conflicts with the terms of the VWP. My concerning with barring myself is purely accidental and not barring myself because I took a dumb risk, which is why I'm so concerned about getting in trouble for the chance of getting engaged during the VWP stay.

Even though I probably would be advised about being declined when visiting the US on certain terms, it would be nice to get a firm idea or response that if I will or if I won't or if it's a maybe. Of course I could get ticket refunds but it's also a waste of peoples time dealing with me just to send me back home and that's not something I'd feel good about let alone disappointing my girlfriend by not being able to visit the second time because I made a mistake.

As it stands the K1 will be filed in the future, just a low chance of it being filed (if at all) during my stay, it will most likely be filed when I arrive back home, or during the ending weeks that I leave, as I stated in my original plan in my original post.

And yeah it would be rather surprising for many people to get married at this age and at this time, even if we've been together 3 years prior. I just don't know how far engagement stands with legal issues, visas, passports, etc.

Edited by Cannon
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Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Kenya
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I met my wife via the Internet.....and actually I paid $99 for the opportunity to choose my young blond Russian hottie from an online catalog.

It really is the truth.

Now, if one thinks that's all there was to it,,,,ie mail-order biride......I have a bridge I want to sell you!!

We met with the assumption, at least, that we were serious of considering a relationship and the possibility of marriage and immigration to the US....but trust me, those subjects were never discussed during our early conversations. Luckily for us, we both were adept at using modern communication means, email, SMSs, photo-taking, Skype video....and used that to our advantage. We later agreed to meet in person.....and during that meeting I proposed and she accepted......at least accepted to begin the K-1 process.

Our relationship grew during that process and at any time we both knew (and talked about) that at any time, either could say stop and it would all end. Even when she came over, she had the final say in going through with the marriage and if she said no, then she could go back within the 90 days of the visa allowance.

Come on over for your visit to your friend.....if you guys decide to pursue the K-1, great, if you decide you need more time, great, you will be fine.

Concentrate now on meeting this person and you two vet each other out. Be honest with her and with yourself.

Edited by baron555

Phil (Lockport, near Chicago) and Alla (Lobnya, near Moscow)

As of Dec 7, 2009, now Zero miles apart (literally)!

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Filed: AOS (pnd) Country: Australia
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G'day!

So, there's no way for you to effectively move to the States to stay with your girlfriend, unless you have the OMG BESTEST JOB SKILLZ EVER. Just put that one out of your head as an option right now. You guys are going to have to deal with traveling a lot until you decide that you do indeed want to get married, or until the relationship runs its course. I would say absolutely do NOT get married just because you want to spend time together now, because the international marriage process is hell. (And I'm specifically replying to this because my husband is Australian, so I really know the process you and your girlfriend are looking at.) I'm on my second marriage, so I feel pretty qualified to say that this is an entire other level of hell than 'normal' - not only are you trying to do a wedding, but you're trying to adjust to living with another person for the first time (and no matter how many times you stay together before, there's always that lingering date you know they're leaving and it's not QUITE real), and the immigrant is hitting serious expat issues. (My husband was over the moon about moving to the US and the adventure - it's still been hard.)

The spousal unit did three visits to America in 10 months; including his last flight home, he made 7 transPacific flights in a year. I also did one trip to Australia in the same 10 months. It's really expensive, and you guys need to consider whether or not you have the funds for that sort of thing - I have a decent job and he was a government employee, so it wasn't too hard for us, but we still had to pinch our pennies in order to have that much time together and file all the paperwork.

The spousal unit had no issues traveling to visit me while the K-1 was being processed, and in fact we were even able to ask them to delay his K-1 VISA interview because he had a research fellowship in Australia after Christmas, but wanted to be home for the holidays (and to meet my family). They had no problems with that.

That said, you may have picked up from references here that we're older than you and your girlfriend. We both have solid careers, and he had many strong ties to Australia (car, home rental, government job, fellowship at Monash, etc) that made it extremely unlikely that he would overstay his VISA. You need to look at your situation and see if they think you would be at risk for violating your VISA to visit the country.

Some other things to think about:

- Cost of living is different in America; some things cost more, some cost less. Do you have the money saved to live here for a few months at a time? Can your girlfriend support you? If she still lives at home, is her family okay with you staying there?

- If you decide to K-1, does her job provide enough financial support, or will you need a co-sponsor?

- Do you have the skills to be able to get a job in America? It's not the same as Australia, and minimum wage is much (much!) lower.

Really, though, you need to see how spending time together goes before you even start thinking about a K-1. Plan on visiting, know you'll be returning to Australia at the end of your visit, and figure out what you're going to do when you're back in Australia. The process is long enough and expensive enough that if you cannot swing another trip over to visit and propose in person (or have her go to Australia), then you guys probably need to think about whether or not marriage is something you can afford right now.

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Filed: Other Country: Australia
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Just an update on the status of this

We've decided to kinda scrap the whole K1 idea, it's a bit extreme to begin with anyways and chances are i'll be going on the B2 visa, with the intention of returning when it's done and visiting again in the future.

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Hi Cannon, the K-1 is certainly still something to keep in mind as an option for later down the road. But at this stage the only thing you really need to focus on is your relationship with your girlfriend and getting to know each other.

Is there a reason you would look at the B2 and not the VWP?

I-129F posted: 25/11/2013

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Alien Registration Number Changed: 10/12/2013

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Received at NVC: 19/02/2014

Left NVC: 24/02/2014

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Married: 11/07/2014

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Filed: Other Country: Australia
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Hi Cannon, the K-1 is certainly still something to keep in mind as an option for later down the road. But at this stage the only thing you really need to focus on is your relationship with your girlfriend and getting to know each other.

Is there a reason you would look at the B2 and not the VWP?

Purely for the chance to stay there longer, and maybe get involved in some studies if there's opportunities.

Purely for the chance to stay there longer and have a larger timeframe for us to go visit places that we wanted to do together, and maybe get involved in some studies if there's opportunities.
Of course I'll be living with my girlfriend and either her mother/father but we'll be visiting our friends and going to festivals and trips to places like Michigan and stuff like that together and with our friends. As far as I'm aware and as far as the US embassy is concerned with me, I'm eligible so long as I do return when need be, which is fine. I just would like to stay longer and have it eventually developed into a greencard.
Edited by Cannon
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Filed: Timeline

Take a lot of pictures while you are in the states, on the back write the date, where taken, and who is in the picture with you and your gf. Also save your boarding passes and any tickets to events you go to in the states. If you eventually decide to do the K1 the more information that you gather now the better.

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Most people here don't recommend gong for a B2 when you have VWP access, especially if the reason is just that you want to visit a gf for a long time. The embassy will ask, "why do you need 6 months to visit instead of 3?" You haven't even met her and you want to commit to spending months with her on your first visit?

Edited by Harpa Timsah

AOS for my husband
8/17/10: INTERVIEW DAY (day 123) APPROVED!!

ROC:
5/23/12: Sent out package
2/06/13: APPROVED!

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