[mizzUsa]

Hello everyone. I am getting very worried and stressed. I am a U.S. Citizen born in California. .In October 2011, I had Nikaah done over the phone with my husband.I met him 5-6 years ago, and he is a relative of mine so it was an arranged marriage. During the nikaah, My husband was in Pakistan and I was in the U.S. I gave my consent over the phone. Next,I filed the petition after the Nikaah on November 2011.Then in February 2012 I went to Pakistan and has the wedding ceremony with my husband. USCIS sent me a RFE on 05/30/12 saying that I was not in Paksitan at the time of the marriage. They asked me to send in proof. I replied to them on 06/01/12 and sent in wedding photographs, my passport copies and ticket copies which show my trip to Pakistan in February 2012. I was not in PAK at the time of the nikaah . Please answer the following questions:

1. Has anyone been through this?
2. How long will it take to respond back to me?
3. Will they most likely approve it or deny it?
4. If they deny my case, then what should I do next??

PLEASE HELP ME. May ALlah bless you

[Anh map]

Yes, it will be more difficult because you had a proxy marriage.

There have been several VJ members that have done this as well. Most have had difficulty obtaining the visa.

Do some reading, especially in the MENA (Middle East and North Africa) regional forum.

Best of luck.

[rade2rising]

well I am not familiar with ppl getting married over the phone but if this is a custom in your culture you have to gather ALOT of info and proof. As far as I am aware nikaah on phone is very complicated as witnesses are needed from the groom family to witness you. this is major issue among muslim scholars so I don't see USCIS taking a stand on your behalf. not to mention this person is a relative and pakistan is a problem country to begin with.

honestly if you wanted to send in a petition to guarantee denial I can't think of a better way than this. I am sorry.
I think its in your best interest to withdraw the petition and refile based on your actual marriage in Feb 2012.

[evelyn1140]

Hello everyone. I am getting very worried and stressed. I am a U.S. Citizen born in California. .In October 2011, I had Nikaah done over the phone with my husband.I met him 5-6 years ago, and he is a relative of mine so it was an arranged marriage. During the nikaah, My husband was in Pakistan and I was in the U.S. I gave my consent over the phone. Next,I filed the petition after the Nikaah on November 2011.Then in February 2012 I went to Pakistan and has the wedding ceremony with my husband. USCIS sent me a RFE on 05/30/12 saying that I was not in Paksitan at the time of the marriage. They asked me to send in proof. I replied to them on 06/01/12 and sent in wedding photographs, my passport copies and ticket copies which show my trip to Pakistan in February 2012. I was not in PAK at the time of the nikaah . Please answer the following questions:

1. Has anyone been through this?
2. How long will it take to respond back to me?
3. Will they most likely approve it or deny it?
4. If they deny my case, then what should I do next??

PLEASE HELP ME. May ALlah bless you

u should refiled with your wedding in February.

[sn530]

What type of proof did you send in? Did you provide a marriage certificate? This is the gray area that's quite a bit of confusion it really all depends on if all the stars line up in your luck. But realistically there are a few things required to get married in the perspective of US standard meaning you have to be together physically in the same place to sign the marriage certificate! This raises another question how do they know who signed the certificate? You obviously were not there neither were any of the witnesses able to confirm it was you. Anyways you could try your luck at writing an explanation with additional proof of marriage with pictures and an amendment to your original application Nothing changes but the dates. But you never know might be easier for them to deny the application then you can refile pay again for application! Good luck let us know how it turns out.

[muzk2012]

salam
hmmmm I'm a bit confused to your situation ... I'm from pakistan so I can.understand the whole arranged marriage in family .. but my concern is this even if you were to re file the date on your "nikkah namma" would still be the date the nikkah was read .. and this is the time you were in U.S ... so you refiling will not help cuz that wont change the date of your marriage certificate... no matter what your nikkah nama or marriage certificate will have the same date and therefore you would have the same issue .. so I would advise to continue with the case...
uscis understands different cultures BUT at the same time it says on instructions for I-130 that both should be present at time of marriage .. what will help your case are thses things

how many times have you visited pakistan before?

did ypu meet your now husband on.these trips?

if you have visited pakistan and you did meet him than.you would need to explain to iscis that due to extreme hardship at the time you could not visit pakistan for the legal wedding ... but when you could you went to have the cultural wedding nd reception...

also ALOT of evidence would be needed .. try getting notorized affadavits of marriage from both sides of family ...

reciepts of wedding shopping .. wedding hall bookings .. ect ect pictures ...

its a tough one but tgere are ways .. good luck keep me updated chika salam

[muzk2012]

I.would say just amend the petotion to change to.reception date but again your marriage cerificate or nikkah nama legal wedding date will not change .... nd uscis asks for this .. so if you write a later dateon petition... nd the date on wedding certificate is on a earlier date than.that's a red flag .. cuz the date you change on ypur petiton will not match with your nikkah nama .. so I would recommend go for it and if it doesn't work.appeal or re file later ..

[XPRSURSLF]

I read somewhere on USCIS website that even Islamabad consulate doesn't accept just the nikkah nama without getting it notarized or lets say some sort of court document affirming the marriage. Worst case scenario consult with a desi lawyer he might be able to assist you

Btw Nikkah over the phone or skype holds on shaky religious grounds but that's just a different discussion not relevant on this forum.

[Penguin_ie]

So you sent the CR-1 spousal visa petition after you married over the phone, but before you married in person? You will be denied. The rule with proxy weddings is that they only count as marriages for immigration purposes if they were later consumated. At the time you sent in the petition, your marriage was not consumated, and thus no petitionable relationship existed.

To save time, withdraw the petition and re-file.

[pushbrk]

So you sent the CR-1 spousal visa petition after you married over the phone, but before you married in person? You will be denied. The rule with proxy weddings is that they only count as marriages for immigration purposes if they were later consumated. At the time you sent in the petition, your marriage was not consumated, and thus no petitionable relationship existed.

To save time, withdraw the petition and re-file.

This is correct. The petition should have been filed AFTER the marriage was consummated in person. This petition will be denied and you can file again. No need to wait, you can file again now with proper documentation and include a letter withdrawing the previous petition.

Proxy marriages are not recognized for immigration purposes until AFTER they are consummated. Even then, we see many issues. You MUST send evidence of being together in person, prior to filing the petition. they are asking for that now, and you cannot provide it because you were NOT together in person until AFTER you filed the petition.

Edited by pushbrk, 03 June 2012 - 06:12 AM.

[mizzUsa]

They sent me an RFE. I explained in a letter that under Islamic law this type of Nikaah is permissible. I also mentioned the date that I went to Paksitan for the ceremony and the 3 month timeframe that I lived with my husband. I also sent it 10 wedding photographs and copies of my iterinary and passport that shows my travel in January 2012.

-DO you think they will approve my petition?
-DO you think they might send a 2nd RFE?
-What if USCIS approves the petition...Will I have any problems next with the Foreign embasssy?

[pushbrk]

They sent me an RFE. I explained in a letter that under Islamic law this type of Nikaah is permissible. I also mentioned the date that I went to Paksitan for the ceremony and the 3 month timeframe that I lived with my husband. I also sent it 10 wedding photographs and copies of my iterinary and passport that shows my travel in January 2012.

-DO you think they will approve my petition?
-DO you think they might send a 2nd RFE?
-What if USCIS approves the petition...Will I have any problems next with the Foreign embasssy?

No, they will not approve the petition. They understand what is permissible under Islamic law but are required to enforce US law. They gave you a chance to produce evidence that doesn't exist. Petition denied.

No, there's no need for a second RFE. You do not have and cannot produce evidence the marriage was consummated before filing the petition.

If the petition is approved, it will be a big mistake, so yes, you'll have problems with the US Embassy. No foreign Embassy will be involved in this process.

Best to file a new petition now and include a withdrawal letter. I know this sounds harsh but the law is the law. You could TRY sending the new petition in with your RFE answer. I doubt they will accept and expedite processing but there's nothing to lose in trying.

[mizzUsa]

But how can USCIS find out that I wasnt present at the time of the Nikaah in Pakistan? Can they track my travel history using passport number?

Also, one more question...If i change the date on the marriage certificate to the real marriage date and re-file will there be any problems?

[Jay Jay]

They sent me an RFE. I explained in a letter that under Islamic law this type of Nikaah is permissible. I also mentioned the date that I went to Paksitan for the ceremony and the 3 month timeframe that I lived with my husband. I also sent it 10 wedding photographs and copies of my iterinary and passport that shows my travel in January 2012. -DO you think they will approve my petition?-DO you think they might send a 2nd RFE?-What if USCIS approves the petition...Will I have any problems next with the Foreign embasssy?

As others have said, the only law that counts when it comes to US immigration is US federal law. You are not immigrating to an Islamic country, your husband is immigrating to the US, and if US federal law doesn't recognize it, it won't get you anywhere as far as US immigration goes.

Pushbrk is right, since you had no basis to file I-130 when you did, the petition will be denied. You should refile immediately and include a withdrawal letter explaining the circumstances.

But how can USCIS find out that I wasnt present at the time of the Nikaah in Pakistan? Can they track my travel history using passport number?Also, one more question...If i change the date on the marriage certificate to the real marriage date and re-file will there be any problems?

Didn't you pretty much explain that to them? And then included pictures and tickets of the ceremony which occurred after you filed initially? And yes, they can track travel history using passport numbers.

Either way, you don't lie to the USCIS. It's a bad idea no matter what you think they don't know.

If you had a wedding ceremony in person in Pakistan, that's the one that counts for immigration. Don't "change" any dates on anything. If your marriage certificate from Pakistan lists the proxy marriage date, write a letter with your new petition an explain that to them. Send pictures and airline tickets and passport stamps along to prove the date of your in person wedding. The USCIS' knowledge of Pakistani tradition may be limited, but the COs at the interview in Islamabad will know exactly what you're talking about.

Edited by jaejayC, 03 June 2012 - 02:03 PM.

[Penguin_ie]

Yes, they know.

Don't change the date on a marriage certificate, you don't want to be accused of falsifying documents. Just send in a new petition with evidence you met after the proxy marriage.