New girl

[Satellite 1]

And I guess using Match.com or eHarmony.com is considered buying a wife from the USA?

I think these websites were designed to match two compatible people who could not find a local person. How many Russian ladies are on Russian to Russian singles websites advertising themselves?

Ultimately it comes down to bargaining power. And on a US to US dating site both parties are pretty much equal, but not for the Russian to American sites.

Examples:

Both parties have relatively similar incomes.

Both parties can visit each other freely.

Both parties can clearly communicate with each other.

Both parties are familiar with the every day routine of living in the US.

Now compare that with a Russian to US website.

While the need to get married might be equal for both parties, the motivations are quite different. Generally speaking the US person must show interest in the Russian lady. Since I only hear about US men picking out the ladies like in a catalog and initiating the conversation. Not too many US men advertising themselves in similar fashion for a Russian lady to pick them out. Once a relationship is established, the man chooses when he is going to call and travel to see his lady as both are either impossible or prohibitively expensive for the Russian lady who is advertising herself on the marriage website.

And if the motivation to get of of Russia is high for whatever reason, then the level of scrutiny applied to the potential partner is going to be much less than it would be on a typical US to US marriage site where getting out of Portland to go to Seattle is a small factor.

Sorry if this opinion offended anybody. I usually don't voice my opinion on anything but immigration and travel in general. But I get wound up about this topic. Even though in all sincerity there is nothing wrong with the system of "buying" a Russian bride if you apply market economy principles to marriage.

[akdiver 3]

Satellite:

Well, if you read the posts of some people (I think you know who) and see their attitudes about meeting these women, or you look at the age difference of some couples (we all know who), then it is pretty clear what is going on and what people's motivations are, don't you think?

Personally, I think it's pretty sad and pathetic to treat people this way and it says a lot about their character. On the flip side, no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Life is a series of choices where one tries to exchange what they have for something better.

Furthermore, marriage is a contract - just like any other contract. Both parties agree to certain principles and exchanges in the hopes of bettering their lives. IMHO, in this regard, there isn't much difference between the nice Russian girl looking for a husband wherever he may be, to escape a bad situation, and the some Americian girl, who is looking for a husband to improve her situation or get what she wants in life. Yeah, there may be differences in bargaining power, but hey, there is nothing fair or equal about life (nor should there be).

In short, while many of the men seeking out foreign women may be complete dirtbags, at the end of the day, some women may conclude that life with the dirtbag is better than life without the dirtbag, and that's their choice to make. Plenty of American women choose to be with complete dirtbags too.

I agree with most what what you said in your last post - I think the difference is that I still think people's choices are their own and one can have no greater freedom than the freedom to ###### up their own life - and government should not involve itself in this process and more than absolutely necessary.

Cheers!

AKDiver

[JenT 0]

Now I have a Russian girl writing me. This one says she passed the nurses exam in English and as an agent lookng for a hospital in the US. Is this possible? I will meet her on my trip.

"This one"? Sounds like you're shopping for produce.

If you're such a babe magnet, why do you have to go all the way to Russia to find a babe?

[travlnmannn 0]

It seems to me that Cam thinks that women from Russia are some kind of commodity. I sure hope you dont get screwed Cam. Remember that women from Russia are much smarter than you think. Dont let your guard down. Especially the way your meeting 4 or 5 different women in one trip. I asked my fiance how she would have felt if I was going to Russia to meet her and some other women. She said "I would kill you". Good luck cam.

[akdiver 3]

I sure hope you dont get screwed Cam.

Given the attitude he has expressed here, I hope he gets burned, and burned bigtime. Maybe such an experience will help him adjust his views somewhat.

Cheers!

AKDiver

[Jenn! 918]

Then, TAKE YOUR TIME, and pick the one that's right for you. The best scam-buster in the world is a little foot-dragging. If you tell her, "naw baby, I'll get the papers next week." and for some reason she always has a problem with that, then you know.

Also, if I were you, while I was there, I'd be telling all these girls that I would love to get married.... "but not for another four or five years."

I'm not a Russian woman, but if a man who I was in love with kept dragging his feet, I would take that as a sign that he wasn't really serious about me. Are you sure that this scam-busting technique is fool-proof?

[slim 1,514]

It seems that there is a difference of oppinion on VJ.

There are those that are here to get the S/O over to the States, and according to this particular camp, you must be "oh so in love" with the person you're sponsoring or else you shouldn't do it.

Then there are those who are here to get advice on how things work in a foreign country, how things work in the visa process, and how things work in general.

The system is set up a certain way, and that's the way it is. There are 48,000+ gorgeous women with profiles on the internet from Russia who post pictures and information with the hopes of meeting an English speaking man. Not every single one of them posts their profile in hopes of finding a man that they could be "oh so in love" with, so why is it such a big deal when a guy comes on VJ and lets it be known that he has no problem "shopping around" for a girl that is marketing herself?

There's a saying that some of you may have heard.... Don't hate the player, hate the game. I'm not insinuating that anyone paying $3,500+ to go meet some women is a player, what I'm saying is anyone willing to fork over a few grand of their own money has the right to do whatever they want to do with that, and if that means trying to "meet" more than one woman per trip, more power to them for organizing their time with the greatest efficiency and getting more "bang" for their buck. (No pun intended... well, maybe slightly.)

All I'm saying here is that for those of you out there saying "Cam is wrong for trying to meet all these girls at once, and isn't really serious about it." You're right. But, why should he be? If he's (or anyone for that matter) going to select a potential future mate based on 3 or 4 photos and a brief description (that probably wasn't even written by that girl herself) alone, why shouldn't he at least take the time to check out more than one?

I applaud you Cam for keeping it real, and not being afraid to say "I'm going to Russia to find a hot wife because I'm not going to settle for some mediocre wife here. I've got the cash to go there, there is an abundance of women who are willing to meet me and consider marrying me.... so why not?" Hats off.

Everyone who "found" their true love on an internet profile site... hats off too. You're LUCKY!!!!! Count your blessings and quit hating on Cam for increasing his odds of doing the same. Is it so wrong that he's going to actually spend physical time with these girls instead of e-mailing several then "narrowing the field" after picking out which replies he liked best?

I guess e-mail just makes it easier to pick-and-choose, and makes the whole selection process a little less of a "meat market." Oh, and it makes it a little less like "buying" a wife (or husband) and more like an actual "correspondence that led to true love."

If it quacks, let's call it a duck.

[PurrSuede 0]

It seems that there is a difference of oppinion on VJ.

There are those that are here to get the S/O over to the States, and according to this particular camp, you must be "oh so in love" with the person you're sponsoring or else you shouldn't do it.

Then there are those who are here to get advice on how things work in a foreign country, how things work in the visa process, and how things work in general.

The system is set up a certain way, and that's the way it is. There are 48,000+ gorgeous women with profiles on the internet from Russia who post pictures and information with the hopes of meeting an English speaking man. Not every single one of them posts their profile in hopes of finding a man that they could be "oh so in love" with, so why is it such a big deal when a guy comes on VJ and lets it be known that he has no problem "shopping around" for a girl that is marketing herself?

There's a saying that some of you may have heard.... Don't hate the player, hate the game. I'm not insinuating that anyone paying $3,500+ to go meet some women is a player, what I'm saying is anyone willing to fork over a few grand of their own money has the right to do whatever they want to do with that, and if that means trying to "meet" more than one woman per trip, more power to them for organizing their time with the greatest efficiency and getting more "bang" for their buck. (No pun intended... well, maybe slightly.)

All I'm saying here is that for those of you out there saying "Cam is wrong for trying to meet all these girls at once, and isn't really serious about it." You're right. But, why should he be? If he's (or anyone for that matter) going to select a potential future mate based on 3 or 4 photos and a brief description (that probably wasn't even written by that girl herself) alone, why shouldn't he at least take the time to check out more than one?

I applaud you Cam for keeping it real, and not being afraid to say "I'm going to Russia to find a hot wife because I'm not going to settle for some mediocre wife here. I've got the cash to go there, there is an abundance of women who are willing to meet me and consider marrying me.... so why not?" Hats off.

Everyone who "found" their true love on an internet profile site... hats off too. You're LUCKY!!!!! Count your blessings and quit hating on Cam for increasing his odds of doing the same. Is it so wrong that he's going to actually spend physical time with these girls instead of e-mailing several then "narrowing the field" after picking out which replies he liked best?

I guess e-mail just makes it easier to pick-and-choose, and makes the whole selection process a little less of a "meat market." Oh, and it makes it a little less like "buying" a wife (or husband) and more like an actual "correspondence that led to true love."

If it quacks, let's call it a duck.

There are many agencies and services that offer a "romance tour". This is also not JUST to Russia, but to about every other country that has any kind of "matchmaking" service with foreign matrimonials.

If Cam was telling all these women they were his ONE and only, then certainly, that would be deceitful and he'd deserve a nasty fate for his philandering.

But how is this any different than a guy going to Florida on spring break, after he's made contact with a couple of girls who might be down there at that time, and saying, hey, let's hook up and see how things go for us while we're down there?

No one is forcing these girls to meet him. And most agencies (in Russia, I'm assuming elsewhere as well) often allow a man to come in, and say "look through our catalog, we can set you up with several 'dates' so you can get to know a variety of ladies".

I agree that Cam's attitude can come off as a "meat market" sometimes, and I understand that many people already have met their beloved before they come to VJ to post for help and guidance.

Now personally, I prefer meeting just one person I have a strong interest in before I take off on a journey of 1,000's of kilometers, but that's just me. And I know many have a "backup" plan in their pocket, such as an agency to contact in the event the primary contact doesn't work out for them.

That doesn't make someone a philanderer, any more than someone who goes to Match.com or Yahoo! Personals and answers more than one ad describing themselves and what they are looking for in a partner.

As I said, granted Cam's attitude toward the process is a bit chauvinistic and has rubbed more than a few people the wrong way, but just going on a "romance tour" to meet various people is not the same thing as being a philandering snake-in-the-grass either.

We all have had different circumstances of meeting our "beloved"... I can't help but think maybe if I had spent more time meeting different people on my various trips to Russia, instead of just being so enamoured that both my ex-fiancee (K-1 #1) and my ex-wife (K-1 #2) were the "one and only", neither one of those would be my ex-s, we just maybe never would have connected. And obviously neither one of them was "right" for me, or they likely wouldn't be ex-'s, now would they?

Nevertheless, I do have friends in Russia who are enjoying introducing me to other women, now that the ink is dry and the divorce is final... you can be sure this time, after two failed relationships, I'm going to be a lot more cautious. One would hope so, at least... LOL

On the other hand, I still can't bring myself to go on a "romance tour" and just meet multiple women on the same trip. That's just not me, and my mind and heart just doesn't work like that.

-- Dan

[timelena 0]

Well, since all these ladies post their photos in the internet and they know there are many other Russian girls who do that (and probably paid more to the photographer), why treating this guy as a fiance? I do understand killing someone who has been your boy-friend for years, you spent a lot of time together, sharing your dreams... But killing someone who came here to buy a wife?

Good luck, Cam!

[Cam 0]

Satellite:

Well, if you read the posts of some people (I think you know who) and see their attitudes about meeting these women, or you look at the age difference of some couples (we all know who), then it is pretty clear what is going on and what people's motivations are, don't you think?

Personally, I think it's pretty sad and pathetic to treat people this way and it says a lot about their character. On the flip side, no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Life is a series of choices where one tries to exchange what they have for something better.

Furthermore, marriage is a contract - just like any other contract. Both parties agree to certain principles and exchanges in the hopes of bettering their lives. IMHO, in this regard, there isn't much difference between the nice Russian girl looking for a husband wherever he may be, to escape a bad situation, and the some Americian girl, who is looking for a husband to improve her situation or get what she wants in life. Yeah, there may be differences in bargaining power, but hey, there is nothing fair or equal about life (nor should there be).

In short, while many of the men seeking out foreign women may be complete dirtbags, at the end of the day, some women may conclude that life with the dirtbag is better than life without the dirtbag, and that's their choice to make. Plenty of American women choose to be with complete dirtbags too.

I agree with most what what you said in your last post - I think the difference is that I still think people's choices are their own and one can have no greater freedom than the freedom to ###### up their own life - and government should not involve itself in this process and more than absolutely necessary.

Cheers!

AKDiver

AKDiver

Are you the VJ gossip ####### or what? You sound like an old woman. If you know a couple you think has a huge age differene, at least of the guts to name names.

[Cam 0]

It seems that there is a difference of oppinion on VJ.

There are those that are here to get the S/O over to the States, and according to this particular camp, you must be "oh so in love" with the person you're sponsoring or else you shouldn't do it.

Then there are those who are here to get advice on how things work in a foreign country, how things work in the visa process, and how things work in general.

The system is set up a certain way, and that's the way it is. There are 48,000+ gorgeous women with profiles on the internet from Russia who post pictures and information with the hopes of meeting an English speaking man. Not every single one of them posts their profile in hopes of finding a man that they could be "oh so in love" with, so why is it such a big deal when a guy comes on VJ and lets it be known that he has no problem "shopping around" for a girl that is marketing herself?

There's a saying that some of you may have heard.... Don't hate the player, hate the game. I'm not insinuating that anyone paying $3,500+ to go meet some women is a player, what I'm saying is anyone willing to fork over a few grand of their own money has the right to do whatever they want to do with that, and if that means trying to "meet" more than one woman per trip, more power to them for organizing their time with the greatest efficiency and getting more "bang" for their buck. (No pun intended... well, maybe slightly.)

All I'm saying here is that for those of you out there saying "Cam is wrong for trying to meet all these girls at once, and isn't really serious about it." You're right. But, why should he be? If he's (or anyone for that matter) going to select a potential future mate based on 3 or 4 photos and a brief description (that probably wasn't even written by that girl herself) alone, why shouldn't he at least take the time to check out more than one?

I applaud you Cam for keeping it real, and not being afraid to say "I'm going to Russia to find a hot wife because I'm not going to settle for some mediocre wife here. I've got the cash to go there, there is an abundance of women who are willing to meet me and consider marrying me.... so why not?" Hats off.

Everyone who "found" their true love on an internet profile site... hats off too. You're LUCKY!!!!! Count your blessings and quit hating on Cam for increasing his odds of doing the same. Is it so wrong that he's going to actually spend physical time with these girls instead of e-mailing several then "narrowing the field" after picking out which replies he liked best?

I guess e-mail just makes it easier to pick-and-choose, and makes the whole selection process a little less of a "meat market." Oh, and it makes it a little less like "buying" a wife (or husband) and more like an actual "correspondence that led to true love."

If it quacks, let's call it a duck.

Thanks Slim, I am going there to meet one girl. If it works out great. If not I will move on. I am totally serious about finding someone.

[Henry&Xia 0]

In Response to the Russian Nurse, There is a great demand for Nurses here, Yes, However she can be sponsered by the Employer Quite easily if She has real Credentials that proof Out. Don't be a fool and fall for of those Russian Women. Never, Never send Money to anyone You have never met and still watch Your Butt. For all You Guys that think this one's for real, not like some of the stories out There, WAKE UP ! and stop thinking with Your Pecker. Use Your Brain. Nuff Said, Hope You get it all sorted out guy.

Edited September 25, 2006 by Henry&Xia

[akdiver 3]

Are you the VJ gossip ####### or what? You sound like an old woman. If you know a couple you think has a huge age differene, at least of the guts to name names.

1). I was trying to keep from being personal and avoid a flame war.

2). I have no interest or time to go back and look at photos and spot the huge-age-difference couples and report them in my post.

But thanks for playing.

As for the more thoughtful and intelligent responses...I think you missed the point....which has to do with being honest with the women one is going to meet. Specifically, withholding the fact that you plan to meet multiple women on such a trip is dishonest. The fact that one would withhold this information indicates that one has reason to believe that the women he/she is going to meet would not like it and there can be no other reason to hide this useful piece of information. As I said several times before in various threads - the criticism is all about being dishonest, not meeting multiple women on the same trip. Incidentially, withholding the fact that one is communicating with multiple men/women is equally dishonest.

With that said - you're right. Go meet whomever you want, meet them all, maybe you can get lucky and have a three-way (or a four-way, or however-many-ways strikes your fancy). Spend that cash like its water in the stream. Have a good time! But while you're doing it, please keep in mind that peoples' feelings are involved and that what goes around eventually comes around.

Good luck!

AKDiver

Edited September 26, 2006 by akdiver

[Cam 0]

In Response to the Russian Nurse, There is a great demand for Nurses here, Yes, However she can be sponsered by the Employer Quite easily if She has real Credentials that proof Out. Don't be a fool and fall for of those Russian Women. Never, Never send Money to anyone You have never met and still watch Your Butt. For all You Guys that think this one's for real, not like some of the stories out There, WAKE UP ! and stop thinking with Your Pecker. Use Your Brain. Nuff Said, Hope You get it all sorted out guy.

Thanks for the info on nurses. And I will watch my butt.

[slim 1,514]

Are you the VJ gossip ####### or what? You sound like an old woman. If you know a couple you think has a huge age differene, at least of the guts to name names.

1). I was trying to keep from being personal and avoid a flame war.

2). I have no interest or time to go back and look at photos and spot the huge-age-difference couples and report them in my post.

But thanks for playing.

As for the more thoughtful and intelligent responses...I think you missed the point....which has to do with being honest with the women one is going to meet. Specifically, withholding the fact that you plan to meet multiple women on such a trip is dishonest. The fact that one would withhold this information indicates that one has reason to believe that the women he/she is going to meet would not like it and there can be no other reason to hide this useful piece of information. As I said several times before in various threads - the criticism is all about being dishonest, not meeting multiple women on the same trip. Incidentially, withholding the fact that one is communicating with multiple men/women is equally dishonest.

With that said - you're right. Go meet whomever you want, meet them all, maybe you can get lucky and have a three-way (or a four-way, or however-many-ways strikes your fancy). Spend that cash like its water in the stream. Have a good time! But while you're doing it, please keep in mind that peoples' feelings are involved and that what goes around eventually comes around.

Good luck!

AKDiver

My buddy that went to Moscow with me in 2005 just went to the Philippines last week. He reported that the three-way, four-way, or however-many-ways strikes your fancy, go for about 10% of what they go for in Moscow. So, if that's what you're interested in, Manila is the place, not Moscow. (I've heard nothing but good things about Bangkok in that department as well.)