Filing tax return as single this year is spouse live outside USA

[Scott and Mhay 57]

The w-4 is not the issue. U can be married and show single on the w-4. You are just letting the govt use your money for free. The issue is actually filing your taxes. It is permissible to file HOH if you qualify with another person other than your non-resident spouse. You can file single and later amend your return. Is it right? Not exactly but it has worked for other people in the past but it doesn't make it right. If it weren't such a PITA to get an ITIN (I remember when you could apply for one whenever) then none of this would be an issue.

[pushbrk 12,102]

The w-4 is not the issue. U can be married and show single on the w-4. You are just letting the govt use your money for free. The issue is actually filing your taxes. It is permissible to file HOH if you qualify with another person other than your non-resident spouse. You can file single and later amend your return. Is it right? Not exactly but it has worked for other people in the past but it doesn't make it right. If it weren't such a PITA to get an ITIN (I remember when you could apply for one whenever) then none of this would be an issue.

Yes, actually obtaining the ITIN when the spouse lives abroad is PITA unless you can plan ahead by taking the passport and copy to a Consulate, US Notary or IRS office for authentication/notarization. For many, it means risking mailing actual passports overseas. Hint: The IRS knows this and has NO PROBLEM with filing single and amending the return BECAUSE it means you'll be paying more, not less in taxes in the short term.

When did you hear of anybody getting punished in any way for paying too much to anybody, much less the IRS?

In our case, I used the tax return to finance my second trip to China, then a few months later (within the same year) filed the amended return and ITIN application to get a little more back.

[CarlosAndSveta 808]

Yes, actually obtaining the ITIN when the spouse lives abroad is PITA unless you can plan ahead by taking the passport and copy to a Consulate, US Notary or IRS office for authentication/notarization. For many, it means risking mailing actual passports overseas. Hint: The IRS knows this and has NO PROBLEM with filing single and amending the return BECAUSE it means you'll be paying more, not less in taxes in the short term.

When did you hear of anybody getting punished in any way for paying too much to anybody, much less the IRS?

In our case, I used the tax return to finance my second trip to China, then a few months later (within the same year) filed the amended return and ITIN application to get a little more back.

Cut the ####### dude. Do the math on Married Filing Separately vs. Single and tell me which one results in the lower tax liability. A U.S. Citizen married to a Non-Resident Alien has the option of filing as Married Filing Separately and his Non-Resident Alien spouse does not need to have an ITIN or an SSN. The only inconvenience with doing that is that you probably can't file your return electronically.

[CarlosAndSveta 808]

Cut the ####### dude. Do the math on Married Filing Separately vs. Single and tell me which one results in the lower tax liability. A U.S. Citizen married to a Non-Resident Alien has the option of filing as Married Filing Separately and his Non-Resident Alien spouse does not need to have an ITIN or an SSN. The only inconvenience with doing that is that you probably can't file your return electronically.

I am here to eat some crow. The tax rates for Single and Married Filing Separately are the same. But Married Filing Separately will put limits on certain credits and deductions that don't exist for somebody filing as Single. The bottom line still is that you should not file as Single when you are married.

Edited February 8, 2011 by CarlosAndSveta

[pushbrk 12,102]

I am here to eat some crow. The tax rates for Single and Married Filing Separately are the same. But Married Filing Separately will put limits on certain credits and deductions that don't exist for somebody filing as Single. The bottom line still is that you should not file as Single when you are married.

Other than paying more taxes what's the down side to doing it. I get the "should" but I'm really not into "shoulds" that much when there are no consequences to a more convenient alternate method. Also, I much prefer to file electronically. (as does my IRS friend, something about letting a machine kick out an audit instead of assuring another human [fellow IRS agent] sees his return)

[CarlosAndSveta 808]

Other than paying more taxes what's the down side to doing it. I get the "should" but I'm really not into "shoulds" that much when there are no consequences to a more convenient alternate method. Also, I much prefer to file electronically. (as does my IRS friend, something about letting a machine kick out an audit instead of assuring another human [fellow IRS agent] sees his return)

Please stop telling other people that it is OK to file Single when they are Married. I have already asked the Moderators to ask you to stop posting this information. It is not correct. As for your Appeals Officer friend, I would tell him to seriously reconsider his idea of filing as single if he hasn't done so already. He risks cutting his career with the IRS short just so he can file electronically. Please remind him that by filing a return as single when he is married he is subjecting himself to possible investigation by the Employee Tax Compliance Unit of the IRS for violation of Section 1203(b)(9) of the IRS Restructuring and Reform Act of 1998.

[pushbrk 12,102]

Please stop telling other people that it is OK to file Single when they are Married. I have already asked the Moderators to ask you to stop posting this information. It is not correct. As for your Appeals Officer friend, I would tell him to seriously reconsider his idea of filing as single if he hasn't done so already. He risks cutting his career with the IRS short just so he can file electronically. Please remind him that by filing a return as single when he is married he is subjecting himself to possible investigation by the Employee Tax Compliance Unit of the IRS for violation of Section 1203(b)(9) of the IRS Restructuring and Reform Act of 1998.

So, no consequences then? I already knew that.

[CarlosAndSveta 808]

So, no consequences then? I already knew that.

You never know. It depends on each individuals tax situation. Your Appeals friend could suffer some extreme consequences.

[pushbrk 12,102]

You never know. It depends on each individuals tax situation. Your Appeals friend could suffer some extreme consequences.

He's a big boy who can make his own decisions. If there's a problem, maybe he can take his appeal to the Treasury Secretary.

[CarlosAndSveta 808]

He's a big boy who can make his own decisions. If there's a problem, maybe he can take his appeal to the Treasury Secretary.

Unfortunately I don't think IRS Employees have appeal rights for violations of Section 1203 of the IRS Restructuring and Reform Act of 1998. Maybe that has changed but as originally enacted the Restructuring and Reform Act of 1998 was very draconian when it came to employee's appeal rights for violations of section 1203.

[Scott and Mhay 57]

Yes, actually obtaining the ITIN when the spouse lives abroad is PITA unless you can plan ahead by taking the passport and copy to a Consulate, US Notary or IRS office for authentication/notarization. For many, it means risking mailing actual passports overseas. Hint: The IRS knows this and has NO PROBLEM with filing single and amending the return BECAUSE it means you'll be paying more, not less in taxes in the short term.

When did you hear of anybody getting punished in any way for paying too much to anybody, much less the IRS?

In our case, I used the tax return to finance my second trip to China, then a few months later (within the same year) filed the amended return and ITIN application to get a little more back.

I'm not disputing the fact. I did try to do the whole embassy thing since I visited the PI in feb last year. They changed notaries to by appointment only...the soonest I could get an appointment was 22 March and I checked the first week of Feb last year. I ended up filing HOH (because I qualified for it) and just amended my return in October. I got lazy and put it off for the amendment. I will get another $650 back...should have been more, but I didnt have a 1099C before I filed. I prefer to file electronically too...that is why I filed the way I did last year. There wasnt this much passion over this issue last year. I'm surprized how much it has come up this year.

[CarlosAndSveta 808]

I'm not disputing the fact. I did try to do the whole embassy thing since I visited the PI in feb last year. They changed notaries to by appointment only...the soonest I could get an appointment was 22 March and I checked the first week of Feb last year. I ended up filing HOH (because I qualified for it) and just amended my return in October. I got lazy and put it off for the amendment. I will get another $650 back...should have been more, but I didnt have a 1099C before I filed. I prefer to file electronically too...that is why I filed the way I did last year. There wasnt this much passion over this issue last year. I'm surprized how much it has come up this year.

If there wasn't so much passion last filing season about proper filing status part of the reason could be that I wasn't lurking the forums last year. I came back on the forums in the latter half of last year because it was time to file for Removal of Conditions for my wife and stepdaughter. I will make it a point to try and come back here each filing season to give my two cents worth on Federal Income Tax questions.

[pushbrk 12,102]

If there wasn't so much passion last filing season about proper filing status part of the reason could be that I wasn't lurking the forums last year. I came back on the forums in the latter half of last year because it was time to file for Removal of Conditions for my wife and stepdaughter. I will make it a point to try and come back here each filing season to give my two cents worth on Federal Income Tax questions.

So, what's your advice in this situation? My wife is in China, I'm in the USA and have no visits planned. She's a 14 hour train ride from the nearest US Consulate she can't get into anyway. Her interview is May 1st, for which she needs her passport. It's now February 1 and I need to file my 2010 tax return. What course of action do you recommend?

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

So, no consequences then? I already knew that.

There was a report of someone being denied citizenship recently because they had filed single taxes when they were married. That seems like a pretty crappy consequence to me for following bad tax advice. You can file married filing separately and have no number for your spouse and not claim and credit for them and pay the same tax as single, but it's not single - it says married. No passport needed for that.

Edited February 9, 2011 by Harpa Timsah

[pushbrk 12,102]

There was a report of someone being denied citizenship recently because they had filed single taxes when they were married. That seems like a pretty crappy consequence to me for following bad tax advice. You can file married filing separately and have no number for your spouse and not claim and credit for them and pay the same tax as single, but it's not single - it says married. No passport needed for that.

Accepting that's all true, I'm the US Citizen. My wife didn't file, I did. When she got here, we amended the return. The context here is a US Citizen filing taxes when their spouse isn't here yet. I realize I could have filed married separately but couldn't have filed electronically. It was a choice without a consequence.