[UmmSqueakster]

For those who have never had the joy of observing Ramadan, or being married to someone who is obvserving Ramadan in the United States, let me introduce you to one of the many joys, er perpetual debates the american muslim community has.

When does Ramadan begin? And for that matter, when does Ramadan end? When is eid?


For those who are going , allow me to explain. The Islamic calendar is theoretically 100% naturally lunar. Our months are based on the phases of the moon, and a new month starts the new month. Sounds simple right? Ah, no.

The controversy arises when a community in a non muslim country such as ourselves (and in Canada, Britain, etc) can't decide exactly who sights the moon first.

Every year, we are faced with several options:

1. Follow an astronomical calculation that relies on numbers and not the actually physical sighting of the moon

2. Follow a national organization (like ISNA) or a major islamic insitution (like Zaytuna in California)

3. Follow the first physical sighting in North America

4. Follow a local sighting

5. Follow the sighting in back-home-landia.


Each contingent has their strong proponents and strong haters. Each year, without fail, each contingent will mount their evidence and begin to fling it about, usually on the internet and in the mosque after prayers.

And, each year, without fail, the national american muslim community will not celebrate and observe Ramadan in sync. This unsyncing often happens within local communities as well.

I bring this up because ISNA/fiqh council of north america has recently issued a statement regarding Astronomical Calculations of Islamic dates and Moonsighting.org is already predicting a start date for Ramadan.

So, pretty soon the whole messy brawl will start up again. For someone who comes from a muslim majority country, this bickering can seem pretty intimidating and very confusing.


So, as a vetern of 5 Ramadan/Eid controveries, I have some suggestions to offer. Now, these are purely *my* opinions from *my* personal experiences, and should not be taken as a fiqh statement of any sort. I'm not in the business of makin fatwas


1. If the mosque you/your husband attends is pretty unified on a start date, follow them. It will make it much easier to go to taraweeh prayers and celebrate eid with the community. The local community may rely on a local sighting, or they may go with the first sighting in north america. Both happen.

2. If the community is divided and the local masjid doesn't offer a start date, band together with a group of friends and observe Ramadan together. It's much easier to do if you have support around you. Or, go with the majority group, or the ones that will organize taraweeh prayers and the eid prayer.

3. I recommend against observing the start date of back-home-landia, especially if it's out of sync with what the local community decides on. While it is nice to fast and feast in time with his friends and family back home, he'll miss out on a lot in his very own surroundings. He can't very well hop on a plane and make eid prayer in his home country, and will have to pray eid prayer in his local community.

4. If this is your significant other's first Ramadan here in the United States, let him know that the american muslim community can never agree on a start date for Ramadan, has never agreed on a start date and probably never will. Let him know this a while before Ramadan approaches, so he won't get too flustered and shocked when he may want to be mentally preparing. If his grasp of english is decent, he may want to read this article by Imam Zaid Shakir of Zaytuna Institute about the controversy last year.

Now, in all fairness, the differences in start dates is usually only a day or two. Howeva, this can make a huuuuuuge difference for eid celebrations. Typically, eid prayer (which are required) is held on the first of Shawwal, the month after Ramadan. If you're out of sync with your local community, you may miss Eid prayers, because you're still on the last day of Ramadan and fasting while they're all getting festive.



Did I explain things well, or did I only create confusion? If something isn't clear, please let me know and inshaAllah I'll try to explain it better.

[tnh9479]

Luckily, when my husband experienced his first Ramadan here last year, the local masjid had a recorded message you could call to find out when to observe (i.e. call every night to find out).

Twila

[MHandMB]

Ok, thank you for the enlightenment, as always! I knew it was always tricky to find the exact start date, but this is worse than I imagined.

Can I ask a question? This will only be my second Ramadan with Amed, and the only other time, we were in Paris, so the timing may be different. Does the traditional prayer service usually start right before sundown each night? Does it correspond with one of the prayer times on the islamic prayer calendar, or is it separate?

[UmmSqueakster]

MHandMB, on Aug 10 2006, 04:09 PM, said:

Ok, thank you for the enlightenment, as always! I knew it was always tricky to find the exact start date, but this is worse than I imagined.

Hehe. I always get caught in the fluff of things the day or 2 before Ramadan and then at the end trying to figure out Eid. My husband came on October 3 last year, and we spent our first day together trying to figure out who to follow for moon sightings. Welcome to American honey

Quote

Can I ask a question? This will only be my second Ramadan with Amed, and the only other time, we were in Paris, so the timing may be different. Does the traditional prayer service usually start right before sundown each night? Does it correspond with one of the prayer times on the islamic prayer calendar, or is it separate?

We fast from the beginning of fajr, which is before dawn, until maghrib time, which is denoted by the sun setting. People will often get up before fajr time and have suhoor, the pre fasting meal. A usual plan of events, at least in the communities that I've been in have been as follows:

1. Maghrib time/sunset comes - someone gives the adhan
2. People break their fast with a date and some water or a little bit of food.
3. At this point, it varies. Depending on the people, the community or even the mood of everyone that day, maghrib is prayed or everyone sits down for the iftar and then vise versa.
4. Taraweeh prayers are prayed later, after Isha. These are what is considered the special prayers during ramadan. The Qur'an is divided into parts, and a part is recited each night in these prayers. These prayers containt 8 or 20 rakat (ie cycles) of prayer, and are much much longer than the usual congregational prayers. Depending on who is leading them, they can take anywhere from a half an hour to 2 or 3 hours+. Oftentimes, the congregation will take a break after a certain number of rakat and someone will give a little talk.


The timing of the prayers, starting fasting and breaking the fast can be found by inputing your zipcode into Islamic Finder, or by asking at a local masjid or muslim owned groccery store. They'll usually offer a print out, or in some cases, a nice looking calendar.

[UmmSqueakster]

Another Ramadan related issue that may pop up is Zakat al Fitr. Zakat al Fitr is a charitable contribution given on behalf of every member of the family that must be given prior to the eid prayer.

For muslims here in the United States, there are many options. Again, these aren't fiqh rulings, just what I've seen from my personal experience. As for the specific amount, each person should rely on what their madhab recommends, or on what community leaders ask for. It usually amounts to $8-$10 per person.


1. The local masjid or muslim community may take up a collection before eid prayer or during Ramadan.

2. The person can send the amount to their family back home to be distributed to people there.

3. Donate it to a reputable charity, be it local, national or international.

Option 3 has gotten much trickier in recent years. A lot of muslim charities have had their assets frozen in terrorism investigations. One charity that has been above all scrutiny is Islamic Relief. Their organization is very transparent and they haven't had the horrid run ins with the government that other groups unfortunately have. They have a special zakat al fitr fund one can donate to.



weeeeeeeeeeeee Ramadan is coming *happy dance*

[iceyspots]

Rahma

Thank you so much for the IslamicFinder link!!!

Being that this is my second ramadan, (my other one lasted only a couple weeks and was discontinued a week before I had my surgery - doctors orders)... I do have one issue that comes up!

I donate blood platelets every few weeks.. also plasma every 28 days and whole blood every two months.. I am a regular.. so anyways the center where I go, their hours are

Monday - Thursday
1:00 p.m. - 7:00 p.m.
Friday
9:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m.
Saturday
10:00 a.m. - 2:00 p.m.

so it seems like any day they have is wayy after the early morning meal (my weekday mornings are going to be tied up in classes) .. but they are before the evening meal.. so I feel like i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place lol because you have to eat a small meal or snack before or after donating and after you are supposed to keep hydrated... I don't really want to stop donating because it is good for people and helps me feel closer to my faith but I don't want to mess up my fasting either any suggestions welcomed

This post has been edited by iceyspots: 10 August 2006 - 09:03 PM

[Bosco]

Make up the day after Ramadan? Women normally have to make up a few days anyway....and it could work out that your donation time is the same as that time.

My husband went to donate blood... first time no problem. Second time he was told his Moroccan blood was no good for the United States

iceyspots, on Aug 10 2006, 10:01 PM, said:

Rahma

Thank you so much for the IslamicFinder link!!!

Being that this is my second ramadan, (my other one lasted only a couple weeks and was discontinued a week before I had my surgery - doctors orders)... I do have one issue that comes up!

I donate blood platelets every few weeks.. also plasma every 28 days and whole blood every two months.. I am a regular.. so anyways the center where I go, their hours are

Monday - Thursday
1:00 p.m. - 7:00 p.m.
Friday
9:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m.
Saturday
10:00 a.m. - 2:00 p.m.

so it seems like any day they have is wayy after the early morning meal (my weekday mornings are going to be tied up in classes) .. but they are before the evening meal.. so I feel like i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place lol because you have to eat a small meal or snack before or after donating and after you are supposed to keep hydrated... I don't really want to stop donating because it is good for people and helps me feel closer to my faith but I don't want to mess up my fasting either any suggestions welcomed

On the note of charity, we have given through this site Zabiha Program for Eid al-Adha, but I noticed they also have a Ramadan Food Basket program here

rahma, on Aug 10 2006, 08:49 PM, said:

Another Ramadan related issue that may pop up is Zakat al Fitr. Zakat al Fitr is a charitable contribution given on behalf of every member of the family that must be given prior to the eid prayer.

For muslims here in the United States, there are many options. Again, these aren't fiqh rulings, just what I've seen from my personal experience. As for the specific amount, each person should rely on what their madhab recommends, or on what community leaders ask for. It usually amounts to $8-$10 per person.


1. The local masjid or muslim community may take up a collection before eid prayer or during Ramadan.

2. The person can send the amount to their family back home to be distributed to people there.

3. Donate it to a reputable charity, be it local, national or international.

Option 3 has gotten much trickier in recent years. A lot of muslim charities have had their assets frozen in terrorism investigations. One charity that has been above all scrutiny is Islamic Relief. Their organization is very transparent and they haven't had the horrid run ins with the government that other groups unfortunately have. They have a special zakat al fitr fund one can donate to.



weeeeeeeeeeeee Ramadan is coming *happy dance*

[iceyspots]

Bosco, on Aug 10 2006, 11:44 PM, said:

Make up the day after Ramadan? Women normally have to make up a few days anyway....and it could work out that your donation time is the same as that time.

My husband went to donate blood... first time no problem. Second time he was told his Moroccan blood was no good for the United States

Wow -- if I may ask -- you dont have to answer -- What reason did they give him ?

[Bosco]

iceyspots, on Aug 11 2006, 12:29 AM, said:

Bosco, on Aug 10 2006, 11:44 PM, said:

Make up the day after Ramadan? Women normally have to make up a few days anyway....and it could work out that your donation time is the same as that time.

My husband went to donate blood... first time no problem. Second time he was told his Moroccan blood was no good for the United States

Wow -- if I may ask -- you dont have to answer -- What reason did they give him ?

Malaria... not that he has it but that Morocco is on their map as a country that has malaria. The first time, the woman looked up Morocco and said his city was exempt, but the second time around the woman it applied to all of Morocco.

[iceyspots]

Bosco, on Aug 11 2006, 12:32 AM, said:

iceyspots, on Aug 11 2006, 12:29 AM, said:

Bosco, on Aug 10 2006, 11:44 PM, said:

Make up the day after Ramadan? Women normally have to make up a few days anyway....and it could work out that your donation time is the same as that time.

My husband went to donate blood... first time no problem. Second time he was told his Moroccan blood was no good for the United States

Wow -- if I may ask -- you dont have to answer -- What reason did they give him ?

Malaria... not that he has it but that Morocco is on their map as a country that has malaria. The first time, the woman looked up Morocco and said his city was exempt, but the second time around the woman it applied to all of Morocco.

Oh wow.. that's terrible... sowwies...

There wasn't a malaria risk listed for Algeria -- When I was there the woman was concerned about HIV risk but looked it up and it was fine.

[UmmSqueakster]

Fasting during Ramadan is a fard, a religious obligation. Giving blood/plasma is not. If you have to choose between fasting and giving blood, fasting during Ramadan will trump it.

As Bosco alluded to, the majority opinion held by the ulama is that women do not have to fast during "that time of month." So, schedule your donation during that time of month, or put it off until after Ramadan. The baraka for fasting is huuuuuuuuuge, and even if you make up the day after Ramadan, you'll never get that blessing back.

One shouldn't miss a day of fasting in Ramadan unless there is a compelling reason. One should check with what their madhab specifically says. This is a ruling from the hanafi madhab, and to the best of my knowledge, is the same among the 4 sunni madhabs.

PEOPLE EXEMPTED FROM FASTING IN RAMADAN

Sick people when their health is likely to be badly affected by fasting. (F: This needs to be established by reasonable surety of one’s actual or effective inability through manifest signs, relevant past experience, or the medical advice of a qualified and upright Muslim doctor.) They should make up the loss, a day for a day, when they recover after Ramadan.

A traveller (one who is undertaking a journey of more than 77 kms (48 miles) and does not intend staying more than 14 days at his destination). However, it is better for him to fast in Ramadan than to fast later, provided the journey is not a demanding one.

If it is feared that hunger or thirst will lead (F: during the fast) to death (F: or harm, by reasonable surety, as described above), it is permitted to break one’s fast.

It is necessary (wajib) to makeup of a nafl fast that was broken before completing it.

Bosco, on Aug 10 2006, 10:44 PM, said:

Make up the day after Ramadan? Women normally have to make up a few days anyway....and it could work out that your donation time is the same as that time.

iceyspots, on Aug 10 2006, 10:01 PM, said:

Rahma

Thank you so much for the IslamicFinder link!!!

Being that this is my second ramadan, (my other one lasted only a couple weeks and was discontinued a week before I had my surgery - doctors orders)... I do have one issue that comes up!

I donate blood platelets every few weeks.. also plasma every 28 days and whole blood every two months.. I am a regular.. so anyways the center where I go, their hours are

Monday - Thursday
1:00 p.m. - 7:00 p.m.
Friday
9:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m.
Saturday
10:00 a.m. - 2:00 p.m.

so it seems like any day they have is wayy after the early morning meal (my weekday mornings are going to be tied up in classes) .. but they are before the evening meal.. so I feel like i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place lol because you have to eat a small meal or snack before or after donating and after you are supposed to keep hydrated... I don't really want to stop donating because it is good for people and helps me feel closer to my faith but I don't want to mess up my fasting either any suggestions welcomed

[Bosco]

A few videos about Ramadan

American Ramadan Documentary (very nice trailer only). Looking forward to when it is released this September.

Ramadan ~ Shaykh Anwar Al Awlaki

Islamic Audios has several audio lectures about Ramadan.

rahma, on Aug 11 2006, 09:13 AM, said:

Fasting during Ramadan is a fard, a religious obligation. Giving blood/plasma is not. If you have to choose between fasting and giving blood, fasting during Ramadan will trump it.

I got the impression Icey had a compelling reason for giving each month but maybe I read into it.

[amal]

iceyspots, on Aug 10 2006, 09:01 PM, said:

Rahma

Thank you so much for the IslamicFinder link!!!

Being that this is my second ramadan, (my other one lasted only a couple weeks and was discontinued a week before I had my surgery - doctors orders)... I do have one issue that comes up!

I donate blood platelets every few weeks.. also plasma every 28 days and whole blood every two months.. I am a regular.. so anyways the center where I go, their hours are

Monday - Thursday
1:00 p.m. - 7:00 p.m.
Friday
9:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m.
Saturday
10:00 a.m. - 2:00 p.m.

so it seems like any day they have is wayy after the early morning meal (my weekday mornings are going to be tied up in classes) .. but they are before the evening meal.. so I feel like i'm stuck between a rock and a hard place lol because you have to eat a small meal or snack before or after donating and after you are supposed to keep hydrated... I don't really want to stop donating because it is good for people and helps me feel closer to my faith but I don't want to mess up my fasting either any suggestions welcomed

This may sound strange but I want to thank you for being a donor! My son had an illness (aplastic anemia) about 4 years ago and had to have platelet transfusions every day, red blood cell transfusions about 5 times, and there were a couple others he had to have (i can't remember which kind they were). He was critical for a long time and it was generous people as yourself that helped to save his life.
A BIG BIG THANK YOU TO YOU .... If I could hug you, I would!

amal

[Bosco]

amal, on Aug 11 2006, 11:30 AM, said:

This may sound strange but I want to thank you for being a donor! My son had an illness (aplastic anemia) about 4 years ago and had to have platelet transfusions every day, red blood cell transfusions about 5 times, and there were a couple others he had to have (i can't remember which kind they were). He was critical for a long time and it was generous people as yourself that helped to save his life.
A BIG BIG THANK YOU TO YOU .... If I could hug you, I would!

amal

Amal,

How is your son's health now? How old is he? I hope he is doing great.

Rebecca

[Mrs. Forgetful]

Now what about pregnant women? Are they obligated to fast during Ramadan?

This post has been edited by J9Melihi: 11 August 2006 - 10:49 AM