[stebbinsd]

I've recently come to terms with the fact that, although I identify as straight, it's not the penis or vagina that makes the difference for me, but rather, the secondary sex characteristics, such as these:

http://en.wikipedia....stics#In_humans

Therefore, I decided a while ago that I'd be interested in a shemale.

Then, as I looked at international dating sites, like dateinasia.com, I found out about something called "lady boys." These lady boys have all the secondary sex characteristics of a woman, just with the primary sex characteristic of a man. This bothered me at first, but only because, when I first inquired about lady boys, the one I asked just said "I'm a gay." This lead me to believe that he had MALE secondary sex characteristics. But no, for all intents and purposes, a lady boy is like a shemale, except that they weren't born that way.

If a lady boy were to get surgery, and become a post-op transsexual female, could I then get her a fiance visa?

I understand that an American pass port will recognize the gender change, if she can provide proof that she had the surgery, but would that be sufficient for me to get her a fiance visa?

[rsn]

I've recently come to terms with the fact that, although I identify as straight, it's not the penis or vagina that makes the difference for me, but rather, the secondary sex characteristics, such as these:

http://en.wikipedia....stics#In_humans

Therefore, I decided a while ago that I'd be interested in a shemale.

Then, as I looked at international dating sites, like dateinasia.com, I found out about something called "lady boys." These lady boys have all the secondary sex characteristics of a woman, just with the primary sex characteristic of a man. This bothered me at first, but only because, when I first inquired about lady boys, the one I asked just said "I'm a gay." This lead me to believe that he had MALE secondary sex characteristics. But no, for all intents and purposes, a lady boy is like a shemale, except that they weren't born that way.

If a lady boy were to get surgery, and become a post-op transsexual female, could I then get her a fiance visa?

I understand that an American pass port will recognize the gender change, if she can provide proof that she had the surgery, but would that be sufficient for me to get her a fiance visa?

A quick Google search brings up this, which should answer your questions.

[stebbinsd]

A quick Google search brings up this, which should answer your questions.

Ok, first of all, I DID try the "quick google search" thing. It must be the cookies that we have bringing up different results, due to our past searches.

Now, let me try and paraphrase what that article is telling me.

A post-op transsexual can get a fiance visa, so long as the state of residence of her sponsor recognizes that she is now a girl.

And, by "state," I mean, Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, etc.

Is that it? States like Texas or Tennessee, that still consider her a man, will not let me bring her to that state to get married, whereas a state like California would?

I understand that, according to recent immigration laws signed by Curious George, oops I mean, President Bush, outlaws fiance visas for gay couples, even in states that otherwise allow gay couples, which is why I was concerned.

[baron555]

If a lady boy were to get surgery, and become a post-op transsexual female, could I then get her a fiance visa?

I understand that an American pass port will recognize the gender change, if she can provide proof that she had the surgery, but would that be sufficient for me to get her a fiance visa?

For the fiance(e) visa, the two people have to be legally free to marry. This means legally free to marry in the state in which they will reside.

So if your state will recognize the change operation as legit to change the gender, then you are good to go. If not, then you're moving out of the country.

[pushbrk]

For the fiance(e) visa, the two people have to be legally free to marry. This means legally free to marry in the state in which they will reside.

So if your state will recognize the change operation as legit to change the gender, then you are good to go. If not, then you're moving out of the country.

Or to another State that does recognize the change. First, though the gender change must be recognized by the foreign fiancee's country of citizenship. Your potential spouse would not have a US passport, as they are not a US Citizen.

[Guitarlo]

Or to another State that does recognize the change. First, though the gender change must be recognized by the foreign fiancee's country of citizenship. Your potential spouse would not have a US passport, as they are not a US Citizen.

This is the most interesting topic I've seen posted on VJ to date. With a gender change this is not a same sex marriage case therefore your Fiance's country and the USA has to go along with it. Is there any legal history on such cases?
Good luck

[rsn]

With a gender change this is not a same sex marriage case therefore your Fiance's country and the USA has to go along with it.

I don't think it is that simple. As has been mentioned before, the transgender fiance(e) must prove his/her sex has been legally changed & the USC must reside in a state where marriage to a trans-gender individual is recognized.

[JD63]

Or to another State that does recognize the change. First, though the gender change must be recognized by the foreign fiancee's country of citizenship. Your potential spouse would not have a US passport, as they are not a US Citizen.

Yeah this is correct. If the OP was looking into a Thai kathoey for example, I don't believe they are able to change the gender designation on the ID card/passport even after surgery.

[Darnell]

pay attention to the two immigration bills (1 in the senate, 1 in the house ) - the wording has changed to be 'partner' , with removal of male/female labels.

If it passes, then it is theoritically possible (IMO ) to file a K-1 for a ladyboy from Thailand (as an example) IF

the State in the USA recognizes same-sex marriages. No further 'plumbing surgery' required, IMO.

So, if you are serious, I suggest you move to that 'state' (pick one, ya? ) then wait for the immigration bill to be made into law, hoping the wording doesn't get changed - then File The K-1.

Good Luck to you !

Edited by Darnell, 20 January 2010 - 12:45 PM.

[DainandVicky]

Forgive my ignorance. I'll try to put this in as sensitive of manner as I can...

Why?

Assuming hormone therapy to raise the voice, reduce body hair, etc. (which is part of the recognized sex change process, at least here in the US), breast augmentation, and genital surgery... This is now a near facsimile of a woman with non-self-lubricating genitals and no ability to reproduce, basically a eunich with boobs.

If you're attracted to ladyboys... will you still be attracted to the post-op version? This is something I would do some deep soul searching about. If you're at all confused (which most Psych students would say you are repressing and closeted), would you put this person through surgeries, the drama of months of waiting for this process (probably a lot longer in this case, I see RFE's all over it), then with the potential they get here and there's something "missing" (the penis?)?

What's the attraction? You said you're attracted to the secondary sexual characteristics (assumingly female ones?), so these are all (after surgery) pretty female except possibly larger feet and an adam's apple. Is it the co-mingling of the secondary sexual characteristics what you are really drawn to? The duality? Isn't it a lot easier to find a woman with masculine features that likes anal sex? That's basically what you're going to end up with...

I would really take a long, deep look at your motivation for wanting this, and a deeper look at your own sexuality before going (and especially taking someone else) down this path.

[SunDrop]

Isn't it a lot easier to find a woman with masculine features that likes anal sex?

Reading the thread with legal interest, but also educational as I'd always believed (and I'm not a sheltered person by any stretch of the imagination) that shemales were lady boys.. but the quoted question above rather distracted me.

How on earth does one go about finding this out without spending a LOT of time being incredibly specific and potentially insulting. I am a believer in there being someone for everyone, but wow, that would be a laborious and challenging quest.

[Krikit]

Moving from K-1 Process to General Immigration Discussion.

[stebbinsd]

Ok, I'm going to have to use quotation marks, since there's a maximum number of quote blocks I'm allowed to use.

"If you're attracted to ladyboys... will you still be attracted to the post-op version?"
I don't think I really care about the primary sex characteristics (penis or vagina).

Before I learned about what ladyboys even were, I considered myself 100% straight.

So, yes, I would still be attracted to the post-op version. That's a guarantee, because I KNOW I like vaginas.

"This is something I would do some deep soul searching about."
I'm going to meet her in the Philippines (that's where she's from), and we'll have sex at least once. If I don't like it, I can help her get surgery, no fuss no muss.

"If you're at all confused (which most Psych students would say you are repressing and closeted), would you put this person through surgeries, the drama of months of waiting for this process (probably a lot longer in this case, I see RFE's all over it), then with the potential they get here and there's something "missing" (the penis?)?"
She already told me that she WANTS to be a full-fledged girl; she just can't afford the surgery, since the Philippines is a very poor country.

She had already made the decision before I even met her. I'm not "putting her through" anything that she wasn't already going through in the first place.

"What's the attraction?"
Her personality, mostly. I wouldn't be attracted to her at all if she were as cruel as the American women that made me want to look internationally for a soul mate in the first place.

"You said you're attracted to the secondary sexual characteristics (assumingly female ones?), so these are all (after surgery) pretty female except possibly larger feet and an adam's apple."
You can get surgery for that, too.

"Is it the co-mingling of the secondary sexual characteristics what you are really drawn to?"
100% female secondary sex characteristics.

woman with masculine features that likes anal sex?"
Oh, you mean, flat chest, hard skin, a beard, and a vagina?

No thank you. That's basically what you're going to end up with..."
Not exactly. You would NEVER know that she actually has a penis if she's wearing clothes.

"I would really take a long, deep look at your motivation for wanting this,"
I think you need to take a long, deep look at the actual intricacies of ladyboy culture, because you have some SERIOUS misunderstandings.

"and a deeper look at your own sexuality"
I'm probably the most open-minded person I've ever met.

"before going (and especially taking someone else) down this path.
"
Like I said, we'll have a one night stand before I make a permanent decision. She's already decided that she WANTS this surgery anyway, with or without me.

And she does not - repeat, DOES NOT - look even the slightest bit like a man when she's wearing clothes. There's a difference between a ladyboy (especially a Filippina one, as opposed to a Thai one), and a Western transsexual. I merely used the word "transsexual" in this thread, since that's what the USCIS would think of her as.

"Forgive my ignorance."
If you want forgiveness, go to church. If I wanted someone's opinion on whether or not I "truly wanted this," I would go to a shrink, not an immigration forum.

[anya-D]

Isn't it a lot easier to find a woman with masculine features that likes anal sex? That's basically what you're going to end up with...

OFF TOPIC

HAve you ever seen a ladyboy in Thailand? They are generally a lot prettier and more feminine than a real girl these days. And with being Asian, large feet or adam's apple arent the problem since asian has pretty small frame.. so I doubt a lady boy and women with masculine features are alike at all.

Too bad i'm at work or I'd have some pics to show

[stebbinsd]

Ok, now that I've vented my frustrations against DianandVicky, I need clarification:

Which jurisdiction needs to recognize her legal gender as "female?" Her home country, or my American state?

Or, is it both?