Death of Petitioner before Green Card

[TBoneTX 42,990]

Hypothetical scenarios, posed out of curiosity:

1. K-1 recipient enters U.S., and marries and files for AOS within the first 90 days. U.S. spouse dies before AOS interview. Does the widowed survivor have to return to home country within 30 days?

2. K-1 recipient enters U.S., and marries and files for AOS within the first 90 days. AOS application is transferred to CSC; there is no AOS interview; 2-year green card arrives in mail; but the U.S. spouse has died after the filing for AOS. What happens to the widowed survivor, immediately and long-term?

If more information is needed before meaningful answers can be given, I can expand the hypothetical scenarios, or respondents can talk about varying circumstances. Thanks, si man.

Edited January 27, 2009 by TBoneTX

[Dakine 26]

Hypothetical scenarios, posed out of curiosity:

1. K-1 recipient enters U.S., and marries and files for AOS within the first 90 days. U.S. spouse dies before AOS interview. Does the widowed survivor have to return to home country within 30 days?

2. K-1 recipient enters U.S., and marries and files for AOS within the first 90 days. AOS application is transferred to CSC; there is no AOS interview; 2-year green card arrives in mail; but the U.S. spouse has died after the filing for AOS. What happens to the widowed survivor, immediately and long-term?

If more information is needed before meaningful answers can be given, I can expand the hypothetical scenarios, or respondents can talk about varying circumstances. Thanks, si man.

1. Yep!

2. May get away with it until they have to remove conditions and then they will be "toasted".

[Teacher Mark 53]

Here's a 60 Minutes segment on real life scenarios:

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=462...ce=search_video

and the VJ discussion:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=163721

Edited January 27, 2009 by Joe Six-Pack

[TBoneTX 42,990]

Thanks for the URLs, si man -- interesting. Sadly, the VJ discussion went badly off-topic, and, as stated, the 60 Minutes piece seemed vague regarding what the situation of the widows actually was. Would appreciate a definitive citation of the rules, si man.

[Teacher Mark 53]

Thanks for the URLs, si man -- interesting. Sadly, the VJ discussion went badly off-topic, and, as stated, the 60 Minutes piece seemed vague regarding what the situation of the widows actually was. Would appreciate a definitive citation of the rules, si man.

Did you actually watch that segment? Sadly, I don't think you did. It laid the USCIS's postion out very nicely. Death of USC = Deportation of Widow (dependent of where they are in the process).

Edited January 27, 2009 by Joe Six-Pack

[Teacher Mark 53]

Thanks for the URLs, si man -- interesting. Sadly, the VJ discussion went badly off-topic, and, as stated, the 60 Minutes piece seemed vague regarding what the situation of the widows actually was. Would appreciate a definitive citation of the rules, si man.

Did you actually watch that segment? Sadly, I don't think you did. It laid the USCIS's postion out very nicely. Death of USC = Deportation of Widow (dependent of where they are in the process).

[Teacher Mark 53]

I apologize for the tone. I misread your response and couldn't edit. As it is this subject, namely USCIS's position, pisses me off. A few years ago there was a guy in California who died trying to save 2 kids that were caught in a riptide. What does the Government want to do? Deport the wife. Unbelievable. I'll try to find something more definitive later.

[TBoneTX 42,990]

I apologize for the tone. I misread your response and couldn't edit. As it is this subject, namely USCIS's position, pisses me off. A few years ago there was a guy in California who died trying to save 2 kids that were caught in a riptide. What does the Government want to do? Deport the wife. Unbelievable. I'll try to find something more definitive later.

No problem at all, si man. I appreciate your interest, and also certainly your righteous passion regarding these outrages. Why the Feds can't concentrate on the illegals is beyond (more than just) me, but the fact remains that the lawful-but-not-yet-legal end up bearing the brunt of governmental and the public's anger over illegal immigration.

[Sinergy 3]

Your not planning to kill yourself are you?

[TBoneTX 42,990]

Your not planning to kill yourself are you?

(Ahem) "The most dangerous food is Wedding Cake," si man. (Ahem) "Socrates died from an overdose of Wedlock," si man. Only problem around here is that I'm losing the bihemispheric War of Administering & Receiving Unexpected Wedgies, oof man.

Seriously, would still appreciate citations regarding the original questions, si man.

Edited January 29, 2009 by TBoneTX

[Teacher Mark 53]

Here's the USCIS guidelines (I think). It's regarding Affidavits of Support, but I think it's the right area. Hit Ctrl F and enter death:

http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?...c60f144e8aeb8ce

Here's another case I found online. I think it covers some of what you are asking. It is from 2004 however. I won't post the whole article, but here's the link:

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com...mp;slug=rubi01m

Relevant portion:

2-year green card

The procedures by which an American citizen and a foreign-born spouse can petition for permanent residency were established by the Immigration and Naturalization Act of 1952.

Contrary to what many believe, the marriage does not make permanent residency automatic.

The foreign-born spouse qualifies for a conditional green card that is good for two years. At the end of that period, the couple must return to have the conditions removed.

Five decades ago, the process was simple and quick, Renison said. "Many of these cases were adjudicated [decided upon] the same day."

It wasn't until 1999 that Congress made allowances for the death of a spouse. Widows and widowers of U.S. citizens could then self-petition for a green card.

But concerns about possible marriage fraud prompted lawmakers to require couples to have been married at least two years before the U.S. citizen spouse's death.

"It's a somewhat arbitrary cutoff," Rubi Dobrenz's Seattle attorney, Bart Stroupe, said of the two-year rule.

"In some cases, like Rubi's, it creates a hardship. There are procedures that the immigration service uses to judge the bona fides of a marriage — even if it's a brief marriage."

Over the years, there have been exceptions to the two-year rule: Spouses of Sept. 11 victims were granted waivers, as have widows or widowers of active-duty military personnel killed in combat.

In 2000, Sen. Diane Feinstein, D-Calif., won congressional approval of a bill written on behalf of a widow from Thailand whose husband was killed in a car crash near their home in Vancouver, Wash.

But a bill in Congress that would grant waivers to people like Rubi Dobrenz, assuming they can prove their marriage was legitimate, has been stalled.

"There's an awareness the problem exists," Renison said. "Congress doesn't want to be seen to be deporting 9/11 widows and widows of servicemen.

"But we should cover everybody if we will cover anyone in this group of people whom I believe everyone will agree is deserving of some sort of humane consideration."

Dobrenz, who first came to the U.S. in 1997, is hanging her hopes on a section of the law reserved for victims of domestic violence — the Violence Against Women Act.

In her case now pending before an immigration judge, Stroupe makes the argument that despite Al Dobrenz's love for his wife, his suicide was an extreme act of cruelty.

"In all the litigation, no one has questioned that Al and Rubi loved each other, that he wrote a will that left everything to her, that they had joint bank accounts, real estate ... that they had joined their lives like married people do," Stroupe said.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Joe Six-Pack

[Teacher Mark 53]

Here's a link to the Adjudicator's Field Manual - Redacted Public Version.

http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/afmid/1

At the bottom of the page it says:

AD 00-05 (05/14/04) Chapter 21.5(g)(1)© - Clarifies issues relating to the automatic revocation of visa petitions upon the death of the petitioner, the discretionary authority not to revoke the petition, and the effect of the Family Sponsor Immigration Act.

I can't find anything other than that though. No links, Googlefoo exhausted, major headache after reading this.

My final verdict after reading all of this is: If you have a temporary 2 year green card, and the USC dies, you stand a good chance of being deported. Spouses of Active Duty Soldiers appear to be exempt, as do spouses of 9/11 victims.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Joe Six-Pack

[*JG* 2]

Your not planning to kill yourself are you?

ha ha.....that's what I was thinking.

Did you know someone this happened to, OP?

[TBoneTX 42,990]

Did you know someone this happened to, OP?

Nope; just curious. This IS an issue that potentially affects many, though, si man.

MANY thanks to the majorly ache-heading Joe Six-Pack for his intrepid research, which will be helpful to more people than just me, si man.

[Teacher Mark 53]

Did you know someone this happened to, OP?

Nope; just curious. This IS an issue that potentially affects many, though, si man.

MANY thanks to the majorly ache-heading Joe Six-Pack for his intrepid research, which will be helpful to more people than just me, si man.

No problem T Bone. That's how I look at it too.