My sweet little boy has just turned one year and got me thinking.... Is is possible for him to grow up in the US in the US school system and still be able to identify himself as a Canadian? Will he grow up and develope Canadian pride or is he "doomed" to be patriotic American? (I use doomed with the nicest Canadian sarcasim ) We live so close to the border and will spend lots of time in Canada at the Canadian residence plus his Mommy is dedicated in her profession of protecting the Canadian society but will it still be enough?

I have talked to various dual Can/AM people that live in the US. Some which were born in Canada, some that have their Canadian citizenship derived from a Canadian parent but all have basically lived and grown up in the US. The majority of them identify themselves as an American and being considered a Canadian as well is more of a novelty notion than an identity for them.

Thoughts anyone?

Maybe, but it will be tough! As you live close to Canada and will be visiting, that might help.

As a Canadian that spent most of my 'growing up' years in Australia and Singapore, with a few Canadian-spent years thrown in, I didn't really 'feel' Canadian, or identify with Canadians. I went to an American High School in Singapore and I just wanted to be - American like them.

That said, I now identify myself as a Canadian. I think one of the major things that changed my thinking on this is digging up information on my ancestors. While my GG Grandfather came from Ireland, he was actually the first European to settle in the Calgary area. I remember my Father talking about him when I was a kid, but I do believe it basically went in one ear and out the other. In researching his life it made me think about my roots in Canada/Calgary and in fact I feel kind of bad about abandoning ye olde city (but I will anyway ).

You could always put that I am Canadian thing on repeat and play it when he is asleep?

Excellent idea! Brainwashing is great!

If your son is going to be raised in The United States, chances are, (hopefully) he will become the patriotic american. This is not a bad thing. One should have great pride and love for the country in which they live and are apart of. However, I think it is important for your son to also have ties to Canada as well. Canada is as much a part of his roots as the United States will be.
My fiance and I discuss this very issue often. My fiance is originally from New Zealand and currently lives in Canada. We do not have children yet, but when we do.....they will learn of their New Zealand heritage as well. I think that it is extremely important. I think that children are done a great injustice by being deprived of their roots.

regards

steph

woops, sorry....you asked for canuks opinion. I'm an American ..born and raised...lol

This will be tough for him to think of himself as a Canuck. I think children will assume their identity from where they grow up & are educated. My husband was born in Chile and raised there until he was 10 or so. He moved to Canada and attended school there. He identifies more with Canada then Chile even though his parents only watch Chile TV and speak Spanish in the house. He visits Chile every 2 years or so and only considers himself a Chileno on paper and per his passport.

Considering that the Canadian and American cultures are so close (I really didn't even see any difference after living in both countries) the cutie child will probably not notice a difference either. Perhaps you can teach him to say 'eh' as his first word?

Hey that's interesting. My Son is 1/2 polynesian, lived in NZ from ages 4-11 - definately sees himself as both polynesian and Canadian.

He's already saying "mum" instead of "mom".



I knew instantly you where American.

My son is now 9 and has only been here since September and has already left Canada behind him. He knows he came from there but he already has all this pride about the US. It's kind of scary. I try to keep his Canadian roots strong inside him, but it's hard. They go to school, they learn from peers, you can only do so much.

I am constantly having to remind him that he's Canadian because he has this thing of saying: "I used to be a Canadian"

*sigh*

Oh, that is so sad and brings a tear to my eye. That is exactly what I do not want to hear. I want him to have be a proud and patriotic American but I don't want him adbandoning his Canadian roots. I wonder how much Roots clothing I can force him to wear all his life? lol

Just wanted to add that when my mum moved from the UK to Canada at the age of 8 she remembers very vividly choosing to assimilate into the culture and her peers. She threw off her accent immediately (so much so that she remembers my Grandma saying to her - Child I can't understand a word you are saying!! - after her first day at school). I think children more than adults don't want to be singled out and want to be just like everyone else. My mother (unlike her two sisters) completely has become CDN and I don't see any "British" left in her - my two aunties (both came at the same time one a little older than Mum, the other a little younger) both still "sound" British and both have retained their citizenship and ties to the UK. My mother chose not to!

Now saying that I don't have a CDN child, but I just have always remembered that story from my mum's childhood.

does it really matter?

My niece who lives in Canada is half Chinese and her parents have the same concern about her remembering her Chinese heritage. She takes Chinese lessons and learns about the culture, but is an integrated Canadian through and through.

I think under the circumstances, your best hope lies in helping your son learn that he is MORE than an American - he is a true NORTH AMERICAN - a child who is from both the US and from Canada - and perhaps allow him to develop a greater sense of cultural consciousness. That will be your job, to find ways to integrate 'Canadianism' into him as he becomes Americanized. I think it is a good thing that we are all moving to a greater global awareness and your son has an opportunity to present the best of this endeavour. Good luck.

I am just going to feed my kid Canadian Kraft dinner and Canadian Heinz Ketchup and real cheese whiz... well, not just that...

That sounds like my Nephew's diet. He is a Canadian living in the U.S. - but strongly identifies himself as Canadian - I think you are on to something there Marilyn....

Don't forget a steady dose of Don Cherry and Hockey Night in Canada!!! And ketchup chips!

Contrary to what someone else said, Canada and the US are different, in a lot of ways. It may not be immediately apparent, and not easily explained, but there are major differences, IMHO.

nooooo, no Hockey

oh yeah forgot the ketchup chips and all-dressed chips too

My kid's not even Canadian and he loves ketchup chips We've made special trips BACK to the store before leaving Canada to get those damn things.

I have quite a few students who are half Canadian. Maybe it's because we live so close to the border, but they are all extremely proud. They spend most school vacations in Canada, plan on going to college there, and are proud to be Canadian. And American too. I think as long as you instill that love for your country in him, your son will grow up proud of both heritages.

It's great for you to point it out though, because I think so many people have the idea that Canadians are just US Americans...only farther north. I had no clue until I moved to the NW and spent time in Canada and met Canadians. Course, I'm from New Orleans so we're our own breed down there

Make sure to teach him Canadian history, because in US schools he'll only get the US version. And read to him Chicken Soup for the Canadian Soul at bed time. And feed him real chocolate, and cookies without trans-fats and high fructose corn syrup! Feed him Shreddies for breakfast, Tim Horton's donuts for lunch, and poutine for supper!

Buy the DVDs of The Beachcombers, Due South, This Hour has 22 Minutes, Air Farce, NFB shorts, and A People's History. Mr. Dress Up and the Friendly Giant also couldn't hurt!

Get a map of North America, tack it up on his bedroom wall and show him on a regular basis that our country is not called "North".

Get a satelite dish and watch CBC News World.

Buy some CDs of The Arrogant Worms, The Tragically Hip, Bachman Turner Overdrive, Gordon Lightfoot, Loreena McKennit, Enter the Haggis, and sure what the heck some Shania Twain just to round it off.

Put a Hudson Bay blanket in his crib.

Sing him Oh Canada as a bed time lullabye.

He may not ever "feel" Canadian (I think the only way that's possible is to actually grow up there), but he will be proud to say "I Am Half Canadian" and that's what matters.

Oh man that made me laugh...

I would phrase it.. be sure to teach him HISTORY, because in US schools he'll only get the US version

definitely lots of trips back up to Canada. I think there's so much stuff to see up here...especially the historic homes and activities!

I love the DVD idea with the Beach Combers...Danger Bay! ha ha ha

And there are lots of Canadian cartoons too from TV Ontario!

I have often wondered about this same topic you are discussing. Maybe giving birth to a child in Canada and then bringing them into the U.S would make it easier for them to identify that they are Canadian too?

While we all want certain things for our children, all we can do is guide them. If you give him a lot of opportunity to enjoy things that are Canadian and to spend time in Canada, even if he identifies himself as an American, he will feel a special affinity for Canada. It might not be demonstrated earlier in his life, but it just might come out as he grows up. But the bottom line is that the child will determine his own identity in the end.

I can understand wanting a child to identify with their home, but it does disturb me a bit to think that this is another way of saying that you feel being Canadian is somehow superior to being American. My kids were born in the US and are raised here and I don't want them to pick up a lot of the American culture. But that's about values, and not about where they were born. They are proud Americans, but they are just as pleased that they get to spend so much time in Canada. Doesn't hurt that Canada produced SCTV of course. There are great things in every culture as well as not so good things.

My husband would like us to sponsor his boys (from a previous marriage) after we're done w/the CR1 proh-cess for him so that they have more choices for the future. He doesn't worry about their cultural heritage. He worries about their future.

So MsZ you are the American?

I'm not speaking for anyone else here who has posted, but I think, probably like any American parent ( "They are proud Americans") some Canadian parents would like their kiddies to be Proud Canadians. I don't think this necessarily stems from any feeling of superiority (although I'm absolutely sure that exists).

I don't think it's all that important really, however I do think it's a very interesting topic

I also find it interesting that your Husband sees his children as having more opportunity in the U.S. - just interesting because I don't see it that way at all.

Anyway, all interesting!!

Children live in a different path than us, they live in the present time, because every day they have to learn new things. They are building their identity, and, it takes time. If they know where to get the info when they need about life and heritage, they'll grow up healthy and happy.
Bassically, they will be where they live their lives...to neiks: he'll be what you'll teach him both with your spouse who is also American, and he'll be also what he'll choose to be...But i believe the most important is for him to be happy whatever he'll choose to be. Your little boy is awsome!!!

This is an incredibly touchy subject for many people from all countries.

I may be the last person to comment on patriotism or nationalism as I am of the mind that we are born on this planet and should have free reign.
No paperwork, no visas, not passports to travel.
Idealistic, huh?

The first thing I did when buying a second hand sailboat was remove the Canadian flag.
I am not a flag waver of any nation.
My parents came from Europe, and I was born in Canada and have spent much time in the U.S.
Do I have (heartfelt) ties anywhere?
Not really.
My papers say Canadian because they refuse to write Earthling.
I have come to realize that it is merely the place on where we were born that defines this notion.
My heart is everywhere, and the more places I see, the more love emanates from me for all of it and all the people.
The more love you give, the bigger your hreat grows and the more you have to give.
As I've said: LOVE IS A RENEWABLE RESOURCE.

What makes anyone think their country is better than anyone else's?
And what makes anyone think that had they been born somewhere else they would not feel the same way?
Hmmm?


The best thing we can do for anyone young or old is open their minds up to possibilities, to differences and to acceptance.
This would end world strife.
Yes, truly idealistic.



There was this great quote on patriotism being a convenient real estate thingie...but I've lost it. Oops.

"Patriotism is often an arbitrary veneration of real estate above principles."

i don't think anyone here is saying that Canada is better then the US...

we just want our kids to know that they are part Canadian too...

it would be like a Chinese person living in the US wanting their children to know about their home country and traditions etc.....

Oh man you are so CDN that you don't even realize how CDN you are!!

I guess I see a nation as a group of people who say, hey we are going to look after each other here - guess that is the principle part and the part i'm interested in participating in.

Hee hee.
YES!

And I am so much so that I can laugh at myself.
Bahaha!
Sometimes misguided passion...and yet...hmmmm.


Thanks Emancipation and Trailmix.

I did not mean to say that there was an issue here about any country being better.
I guess just this subject matter gets me going...
what does it matter.
Do teach/show/present all kinds of views, places, ideas, etc.
That is a gift.

I love that we Canucks can laugh at ourselves.. such a lost art I believe..

And I totally agree that being well rounded and well studied and travelled is something that everyone should aspire too.. thankfully I was raised in that environment.. I know my hubby had to go looking for that (join the Navy and see the world type thing) cause he would never have had that through his upbringing.. whether that's a US/CDN difference.. i'm not sure, but I know that I'm glad for the very inclusive and outward looking way I was raised!

Amen to that -- some of my biggest lessons have come while travelling oversees and experiencing other cultures. I am grateful to my family for providing me the opportunities to have those kinds of experiences. If J and I ever have children, it is our hope and plan to broaden their horizons to include the world.

Except that it's a little harder for the Canadian given that the two countries are so similar. There's more differences within both countries (Toronto and Whitehorse, NY and the South, etc.) than between them. So it comes down to what -- basically American, but not warlike? Nice? (Not a characterization a lot of Americans would like!) I mean, it's hard to know what pernicious influence one is trying to avoid that one couldn't encounter in Canada.

If it's just a matter of wanting the child to feel ties to Canada, regular visits home should help.

This conversation is pretty interesting. Neiks, I'm with you-I want my kids to be Canadian with a side of American rather than the other way around. Of course we're hoping to move back to Canada as soon as we can, which should help with that. but on the plus side you're so far north that all the kids are going to be a little Canadian.

I agree with the people that say experiencing other cultures is what makes a good/interesting person. But I also think that Canadian kids are much more aware of other cultures than American kids. Its the basic problem with being a superpower-it warps the common sphere of influence to be nearly exclusively American.

tried to add this but was too slow

There are alot of differences between the 2 countries-not necessarily superficially, but as you dig deeper they become apparent. The way that Canadians relate with/to the world, science/learning, the environment, etc. are significantly different and, in my mind, better than the typical US views. And since I'm American I get to say that.

There are alot of great things about both of our countries and all of our kids are going to have a significant advantage by being able to cross the border at any time. And considering how different I am from my parents and how different all my sibs and I are from each other-what we want our kids to be probably only has the slightest influence on how they'll grow up. Therefor, we're back to the brainwashing while their asleep.

Yes, it should be quite simple--as there is only incremental difference anyway between Canuck and Yank (I know I'll get some serious riposte for this but....)

Typical where? Sure, the Canadian stereotype is different, but I honestly think that parents are more important in all the realms outside of politics for what are relatively small differences. There are U.S. kids who grow up respecting science and the environment.

I guess I see it as hard to get any kid not to identify with the place where they're growing up, and to the extent that Canadians flatter themselves as peaceful, social conscious North Americans, that it's not that hard to raise a kid to be peaceful and socially conscious given that that's what the parents are.

might sound like an a$$hole but if you want your kids to be Canadian with a bit of american then maybe you should have stayed in Canada..

I just want my kid to know and appreciate that he or she will be half Canadian and half American...

Just wanted to agree with you and note that I think the point that many of us would make is we would have stayed in Canada gladly if it were not for our USC spouses. We didn't move to the US for any other reason than to be with our spouses. That is one thing that colors most of my postings anyway.

I was thinking that it sounded like a very simplistic and uneducated response.

Hope you come up with a solution! i would bet most (not all) would be stil living in Canada if it wasn't for the American spouse. Life is an adventure, never know where it will take ya.

ahhhh the things we do for love

lets see major differences: most of Canada's military action is as peacekeepers rather than aggressors-this is less of a choice of either country than fact of the difference in size. However, it does color the way that the Canadians that i know view the world and the way the Americans I know view the world.
Science and education-in Canada there isn't this ridiculous evolution/creation debate, which is evidence of the way that people view facts vs. beliefs. Also, (and this is mostly from talking to elementary teacher in both countries) the US has a very serious problem of the cult of the ignorant which most of my Canadian friends that are teachers or parents don't see nearly as often in Canada. It is a societal level problem, that young smart kids pretend to be dumb to fit in with their classmates. It's something that I see carrying over into the students in my university level classes-they may know the answer that I'm looking for but they are so used to being socially rewarded by being stupid that they won't voice that answer.
anyway, these are problems that our country needs to address but there doesn't seem to be any interest in trying to address them. yes I know that Canada isn't perfect, but for my (hypothetical) kids, I want them to be raised Canadian

Please do take this with a grain of salt.

A friend once told me, ha, so do not hold me responsible...

The difference between a U.S.ian and a Canadian:


Canadian at fast food counter
Can I have a Coke?
Est-ce que je peut avoir un Coke?
(My Franglais abounds.)

USian at a fast food counter
Gimee a Coke!

It's a philosophical variance that goes deep!


Flame away...
I am ready.

You made the Canadian request bilingual - that's tooooo funny

Only to be used in Quebec!
Not in Ontario or B.C. for example.
Hahaha!

that's what I was trying to say

but you forgot the Please, the CDN would always say..

can i PLEASE have a pop?

UNLESS he was about 16 years old.... at that time, all North American teens I've fuond loose their ability to have any sense of social grace