Good afternoon all...

I was wondering....

My fiance and I are having our traditonal wedding this xmas in Nigeria. We personally didn't want to go the traditonal marriage route, but our parents insist its bad luck on your marriage if you don't do it. For those that are Nigerian, you know that the traditional marriage is just as official (if not more) than the white wedding. After the traditional marriage, we will be considered married to ppl in our community.

Now....technically...since its not a "legalized" marriage, should my SO disclose this information come interview time? I know how sketchy those interviewers are in Lagos, and I don't want to give them any info tipping them the wrong way. What if they ask him "have you guys had any traditional wedding ceremonies?", or something similar. Should he tell the truth? I'm thinking if he does, they might think we're married already and will deny us for applying under false pretenses or something.

Have any of you filing thru Nigeria had a trad wedding before the interview? Did this even come up in the interview??

If I'm over-worrying, just tell me to hush up...

Hmm....good question.

We are also planning on having a traditional wedding (our parents feel the same way yours do ) but ours is going to be after the interview.

But I am under the impression that as long as it is not LEGAL then you are fine.

I wouldn't say anything or include any pictures of it. If it's not legal, you are correct in that it doesn't really make a difference. However, I've heard stories of people who have had issues and had a lot of explaining and time tacked on to their journey while they wait out investigations and such.

Please believe that disclosing info that would give them reason to lenghten the process is not what you want. My best friend got married in Nigeria this January. She filled since last year and everything was taking too long so the wedding days(traditional and White) came and went and her husband just got here this March as her fiance this march. They were not asked when the interview was conducted and so they did not tell.... The had a court wedding in NJ and are now expecting their first child..... Sorry went off the topic.

My point is leave extra stuff out, unless someone rats u out.

Lagos is not an easy embassy to go through.
My advice is to have an engagement party instead and take pics for evidence of bona fide relationship.
If you find yourself in AP / AR it usually involves background checks and often home investigations where the investigators
go to friends, family and even neighbors to ask questions.
Lets just say some happy guest proclaims : " oh yeah the wedding was great, they are a real couple and the goat and fufu were excellent ! "
Well there goes the visa, the perception of the CO is that you are married and therefore not eligible for a fiance visa.
I would not take a risk except ask the embassy if a traditional ceremony without any registry/papers is ok. ( If you do please let me know ).

I would also not volunteer this info but when asked of course answer truthfully. If you lie you are in big trouble.
All in all why take the risk !

If you do then make sure you take rings off before the interview and going through POE. It is still vital to be free to marry going through
POE and if the officer there interprets that you indeed are married you take a chance to be turned back. Do not refer to each other as husband and wife.
There have been lots of discussions about ' ceremonies' , traditional or church blessings and the membership is split over the decision to do or not to do. I know of at least one member ( Thailand maybe ) that had a ceremony without papers , disclosed it and showed pictures and had no problems.
Some CO's understand the cultural meaning of such ceremonies and some don't.
I also know of couples that were denied, even at POE.
It is a very fine line and the CO has too much power to interpret the ceremony as a marriage. The burden of proof would be on you alone to
produce evidence that you are free to marry.

Legally, there isn't a problem with doing it, but I wouldn't recommend disclosing it to the embassy unless you are directly asked. If you are directly asked then always tell the truth, because being caught in a lie is dangerous and could lead to a lifetime ban and planning a life in Nigeria after all.

My wife and I first also thought about such a scenario. After much thought and investigation, we found out that for our case with a son it was better to go ahead and marry then file under the K-3 status. I would not advise you to include anything about a traditional wedding or anything that would paint you as more than fiances. I know a couple of people who were denied their visa because the CO's in Lagos sent someone to their village and found out that they had a traditional wedding with all the enchilada. Like everyone else said, try not to divulge this fact, but if you are cornered then ou have to be forthright.

But , I bet that if you present all other evidence of a bona fide relationship, you guys wont be having any problems. Goodluck

Sorry I do not have any experience with the embassy in Nigeria but all I can reiterate to you is that embassy is one of the more difficult ones to go thru with all the 419 scams that occur..As another vj member had already suggested, maybe you and your fiance should have an engagement party instead of the traditional wedding or if you do not want to that then leave out the details with at the time of the interviewer to explain that the traditional ceremony was in preparation for the court wedding that you both plan to have- I think if you use that explanation it is not necessarily telling a lie..

In any case good luck to you both!

Wow...thanks for the advice guys! (and gals)

Really huh?

So you guys think I should be honest when they ask? I was just gonna straight up say no. Traditional weddings may not be legal, but people in Nigeria know that they are taken quite seriously. I'm sure the interviewers know this too. I know some couples who only did the traditional, and they are considered married.

Umm..I think i'm going to tell a white lie if they ask (praying that they don't). Then after just apologize to God for lying.

So let's say they don't ask, and I don't tell. Is it routine for them to do background check anyway?

Thanks Akatagirl (I feel weird calling you that...lol...I'm assuming you know what akata means...lol)

I'm wishing now I could switch it up to an engagement party, but looks like its a full blown trad wedding now...thanks to our over-zealous parents. I could always say we just had a gathering where my SO came to my parents to ask my hand in marriage. Which isn't a lie, becos he actually does have to do that two days before the wedding.

But I agree with the other posters. If the don't ask -- don't tell.

No one can say whether you would be put in AP/AR but I'm not sure if a field visit is routine in such cases. I guess it all depends on how strong the case of your relationship looks to the CO.

I'm not sure how common it is for the CO to ask if you have had a traditional wedding though.

Be careful ! We are under investigation and I know of many others. It is very common to do field investigations in African countries.
Keep in mind whatever you tell them can get verified by guests, neighbors and friends. One slip up from someone and a ban can result for
misrepresentation if you lie. It is a gamble you take. You can beat around the bush only so much during the interview, they are sharp and trained to get an answer to what they want to know and you can't outsmart them. Sometimes they are just looking for an excuse to deny. I have been here for a year and have seen and heard it just about all.
Believe me I know !

Thanks...I definitely trust your info.

Jeez...this is a tough one. One bad slip of the mouth could change everything.

"white lies" don't exist in the process. You get caught and you can get banned. It's your decision to make, just make an informed one and know that if things go wrong you can be banned which means planning a life with your fiance in Nigeria instead of in USA. Nigeria is an embassy that is under scrutiny because of the high levels of fraud and they are not going to take it easy with you.

Yeah I do know what that means (HAHAHA)..and its kinda funny nickname I got the first time I visited Nigeria...I laughed my head off when I was called that by many of my nigerians friends over there because I do not have any European descent in me... I have more pacific islander and spanish heritage but of course I was called AKATA Woman in Nigeria because they considered the color of my skin to be "white" since my skin color was not the same as theirs..

Sounds like you know what to say come time for interview....Hope you both have the most splendid time during the traditional ceremony..how exciting!!! I just love hearing about weddings!!! =)

I would NOT say anything about it unless you can pass the pictures taken at the wedding off as engagement party pictures, that would be best... you don't want to say you had a traditional marriage (although not legal) and give them an excuse to hold you back.

Take a few pictures with key members of your family and say it was an engagement party...even if you have to do a wardrobe change just for that purpose.

Good luck!

OK, I am apparently going against the grain, but I would tell the truth. I would fully disclose the fact that you had a traditional wedding. I would include pictures and a statement from whoever led the ceremony saying that you were married traditionally but not legally. You could even get a statement from the marriage registrar people saying that you are not listed in their records as being married.

You really don't want to roll the dice with lying or selectively not including information.

Thanks for all your suggestions guys. This is really a tough one for me. I honestly don't know which way I'll do it. I'm just putting it in God's hands.

For now...I'll stress about when I'm getting my approval!

I'd be curious about why the traditional is "just as official (if not more) than" and then later you say "technically ... since it is not a "legalized" marriage". These are very contradictory statements.....

They are actually not. Its not legal in the sense that its not recognized in the courts/government...wherever Nigeria keeps record of those legally married in the country. We don't have to go to a courthouse, nor do we have to get/sign/fill out any type of documents saying we're married.

When I mention that its just as official, I'm referring to the actual ceremony which is taken quite seriously in our community. Its not really a "wedding" per se. The literal term is wine carrying, which is symbolic in our culture of two people intending to marry.

I didn't really post this for anyone to pick my words apart (which people on VJ soooooooo love doing). I posted to get suggestions/advice from ppl who may have gone thru this before.

You are looking for advice and "pitfalls" in your situation... Carelessly using terminolgy will not get you what you seek.

So I'm guessing you had a hard time comprehending my previous post where I made myself clear. Its interesting that the other posters were able to understand my terminology, and offer their advice and "pitfalls"( which I greatly appreciated, btw).


Thanks for your advice though --- wait. You didn't offer any.

Traditional ceremonies are tough to decipher or compare or even desribe. It varies in each tribal culture. In many parts of Africa , even if you not have had a traditional ceremony people still refer to you as wife/husband. Family bonds are strong and my fiance's friends and family referred to me as their 'wife' too.....just by being engaged.
Which freaked me out at first when someone said now you are my wife too until I understood.
So where do the embassies draw the line as to which ceremony is allowed and which is not. Which is a 'blessing over the couple ' and which isn't.
I believe it depends on the interpretation of each CO and as unfair as they can be, I say be very cautious.
I have heard that as long as you are considered married by the country's standards ( even without papers) you are considered to be married by the CO.
It is a very fine line indeed and I wish there was more clarity on traditional ceremonies in embassy instructions and regulations that one can gain a better understanding and insight.
Does accepting a calabash mean you are married ? Who knows. When having the traditional wedding without papers for a K3 , would it fly ? No, the papers and certificate will be needed and your marriage would not be recognized for a spousal visa.
But a CO can deny you when hearing about a traditional wedding ceremony without papers.
Confusing indeed.

I didn't offer any because until the "true" distinction between the two types of ceremonies are known can anyone effectively provide you what you seek. Until that point, the others are operating on personal interpretation and assumptins of fact that may simply be grossly wrong... Proceed at your own risk....

So I'm guessing you had a hard time comprehending my previous post where I made myself clear. Its interesting that the other posters were able to understand my terminology, and offer their advice and "pitfalls"( which I greatly appreciated, btw).


Thanks for your advice though --- wait. You didn't offer any.
[/quote]

I didn't offer any because until the "true" distinction between the two types of ceremonies are known can anyone effectively provide you what you seek. Until that point, the others are operating on personal interpretation and assumptins of fact that may simply be grossly wrong... Proceed at your own risk....
[/quote]

I think her question is pretty clear...and so does everyone else who offered their advice. Just ask for clarification if anything. this is not the forum for sarcasm. we are all here to help each other.

I guess you are willing to risk the success of her case on assumption of fact... When you have been here for a while you know that assumption of fact is a very bad thing.... What appears obvious sometimes is very different from reality.

I am fully aware of this, btw. Thanks for your input!

It's cultural. In many african countries they have tribal marraiges. The ceremony is important but in later time, the government established a formal process to become legally married. Which costs money and usually occurs in a court room and doesn't include the traditions of a tribal wedding ceremony. Many africans don't bother to have the "legal" marraige. The tribal wedding is more important before God and your family. So, once that's completed, no matter what the government says, you're married. It's a distinction that can muddy the waters of the visa process because you can be married but not married at the same time. A legal marraige is what is recognized by governmental entities, but when you are dealing with an embassy, especially in a fraud alert country like Nigeria, those little differences can cause a big problem in the process.

Calm down. It's not an assumption of fact. She posted on the Sub-Saharan Africa forum because we are familiar with what a "traditional african wedding" is and thus can give advice based on that knowledge. Coming from a different background, you're not as familiar with some aspects of african culture. I suppose you wanted to be helpful, but it didn't come over that way. Maybe you could just let it go and we can all move on to something a bit more constructive.

It's cultural. In many african countries they have tribal marraiges. The ceremony is important but in later time, the government established a formal process to become legally married. Which costs money and usually occurs in a court room and doesn't include the traditions of a tribal wedding ceremony. Many africans don't bother to have the "legal" marraige. The tribal wedding is more important before God and your family. So, once that's completed, no matter what the government says, you're married. It's a distinction that can muddy the waters of the visa process because you can be married but not married at the same time. A legal marraige is what is recognized by governmental entities, but when you are dealing with an embassy, especially in a fraud alert country like Nigeria, those little differences can cause a big problem in the process.
[/quote]

Thank you mama. Because I was really not up for the ignorance. People are obviously frustrated with the process and are using VJ (a forum that's suppose to inform, support, and encourage others) as a place to release their frustration.

Sarcasm is not wanted here. So lets exhale the negativity and those of us who want to be here for each other....lets continue and ignore the ignorance.

Peace and love



Thank you mama. Because I was really not up for the ignorance. People are obviously frustrated with the process and are using VJ (a forum that's suppose to inform, support, and encourage others) as a place to release their frustration.

Sarcasm is not wanted here. So lets exhale the negativity and those of us who want to be here for each other....lets continue and ignore the ignorance.

Peace and love

Thank you mama. Because I was really not up for the ignorance. People are obviously frustrated with the process and are using VJ (a forum that's suppose to inform, support, and encourage others) as a place to release their frustration.

Sarcasm is not wanted here. So lets exhale the negativity and those of us who want to be here for each other....lets continue and ignore the ignorance.

Peace and love

Asante - well said!

Boaz

It's cultural. In many african countries they have tribal marraiges. The ceremony is important but in later time, the government established a formal process to become legally married. Which costs money and usually occurs in a court room and doesn't include the traditions of a tribal wedding ceremony. Many africans don't bother to have the "legal" marraige. The tribal wedding is more important before God and your family. So, once that's completed, no matter what the government says, you're married. It's a distinction that can muddy the waters of the visa process because you can be married but not married at the same time. A legal marraige is what is recognized by governmental entities, but when you are dealing with an embassy, especially in a fraud alert country like Nigeria, those little differences can cause a big problem in the process.
[/quote]

Please....don't mention it to anyone! Keep it to yourself until your visa process is over. I would also be very careful of jealous friends that might go behind your back and rat you out. I would just hold off on the wedding if I were you to stay on the safe side, but if you really want to....then go ahead. But, be careful.....

The cat is already out of the bag. Do you know who and who read this forum. People should be wise and understand that anytime you put something on the net, it is no more a secret. You can't just start typing because you could not knowing what you want to accomplish.
Some people believe they have to see their "contribution", even though it made no sense.
VJ is an informative arena where people on the same journey share "useful" experiences and encourage each other. It not a place where people decide which country has the highest 419 scam or the interpretation of cultures/traditions/beliefs and all these nonsense. There are zilion sites for that.
This is a special forum for some special people. Please lets keep it that way. Also, before you start typing anything, think of the ramifications. NIGERIAN FILERS, I believe!!!!
Thanks

Is big brother watching? If so he will be

Zainab -- Way to tell him! Very well said!

Asante_Maroon -- good points...people are kinda testy on this forum.

Thanks for all the advice guys...maybe its naive of me to say ummmm I'm not really worried about anyone on this forum flying to nigeria to rat me out for my interview...lol. If I had to do it all over again, I still would post....don't know if any other forums out there would have ppl that are going through same thing. Thanks for words of advice though. I can't worry about negative energy trying to get in my way....I don't live my life like that. I can only worry about myself (and my SO in this case) and worry about doing what's best for us.

And I wish I could re-consider having this ceremony, but its too late for that...we're pretty deep into the planning phases. I'm actually very excited its happening. But once again, I appreciate the advice given on here.

My way is God's way.....

Nixz_Chi,

I am Nigerian and I have witness this very situation happen to someone that I know. She went home and had an elaborate traditional wedding. When her fiance got to the embassy....they denied him saying that they had reason to believe that she married him already.

This was this past June. She went home this September to register the wedding and file for him as a spouse. Girl, don't let no one spoil your parade, but you do have to be careful, especially when you have something so delicate on the the line. Say no more about it and do what you want to do.

You know how our country is....some people will do anything to leave the country and tend to get jealous of others who find news paths abroad. When you mentioned the question....just made me think of that poor girl that lives close to me here. She has spent a fortune, and no one knows who ratted them out.

I too had planned to do a traditional but later decided not to, after hearing what happened. My family was so mad at me, but having my baby here with me was more important. Maybe call it an engagement party and do what you need to do, you what I mean. Stay focused and do what makes you happy....At the end the day, that is all that matters.

Well said Missy. I suggested that she just have an engagement party or just label it an engagement party....that way she can continue with her plans and at the same time won't fall into that gray area

You're right Missy. More than just possibly being investigated, there are haters out there who will go straight to the embassy with the food from your wedding in their belly. It's sad, but it's the story of the crabs pulling each other down trying to get out of the barrel.

Good Luck with whatever you do!

Those who have seen me post in the past should know that I don't try to be negative, and I'm not trying to here, but I just have to say this.

It's not really others who have to rat you out. The consulate workers know about this website. They are people just like anyone else and can find this website just as easily. It's a public forum. No, I don't work at a consulate, but my job is to search government databases and we are given internet access to find information posted publicly elsewhere as well.

And it may be petty, but this came to mind when I read that you said your way is God's way. Would God really advocate lying or selectively removing information?:
"Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive."
Sir Walter Scott

I had what some may see as questionable parts in our application, but I was open and honest about it all and we were approved without problems.

This visa process isn't really something to play with.

(edited because my quotes turned into funny characters..)

Missy - I really feel for your friend, sucks to have to start over. A friend of mines actually got denied because her SO didn't meet her father, and they didn't have any formal/documented engagement ceremonies. Go figure....guess it depends on who u really get.

Awww come on Kanyiri...don't go there...not yet at least. I haven't even figured out how I will handle this situation yet, honestly. I just know where to start, and that's just putting my prayers in God's hands. The rest will come to us, we just have to sit down and think very very rationally. We've got some time to hash it out anyways....no approval in sight for me.

But I do appreciate alllllllllllllll the advice, don't worry...I'll put it to good use.

Hi Chi,

My discovery is that USC counsulars are not as "mean" as they are rumored to be, provided you tell the truth and have enough to butress your point.
Go in with every document required,confidence and a smile afterall you are genuine....oh and a lot of pictures too!

They socialize and know the culture there too.If you are not sure then operate on a need to know basis.
I think the whole essence of the interview is to ensure you are marrying for real and a traditioanl marriage prooves that.If asked why you were so sure as to go into marriage,tell the truth its becuse you love him.
They are humans with blood in their veins too.

GOOD LUCK

Thanks Eagleeye! Good point. My fiance has beeen kind of telling me that too. He says some of the consulars have been living in Nigeria a long time, and they are very familiar with alot of the Nigerian customs.

You have been given a lot of good advice. If you are still worried about the CO finding out about the traditional wedding, change it up and say it was an engagement, if that is possible. Or just don't go through with having a traditional wedding, then you have nothing to worry about. I understand it is important for your family to have the traditional wedding, but if it is putting you at risk of not getting the visa, then why go ahead with it? Probably you are making this a bigger issue then it really is, just decide what you are going to do and don't worry about it. The reason I say that is, my husband and I, had an issue we off and on argued about before his interview. We met from his mother, she is a LPR in the US for more then 15 yrs. She(his mom) didn't want us to tell the CO we met from her. I didn't want him to lie at the interview and risk getting caught, it is mine and his relationship, not his moms. I put a post on vj once, to get advice on our situation, of lieing at interview or not. Of course everyone said DON'T LIE! But quite a lot of people told me, if we met through a family member, the CO would say I was being paid to get him to the US and deny the visa. If it was me being interviewed, I would definately not lie, it is something I really hate doing. So I told my husband, he is not to lie at all about anything!!! I don't care what his mom says. I decided at the last minute to go to Ghana and be there for the interview. I was let into the embassy and waited in the waiting room for my fiance (at the time) to finish. But the CO wanted to interview me as well. We stood right next to each other as the CO took turns asking each of us questions, one of the questions he asked me was the one I didn't want to face, SO How did you two meet?? I was so nervous to tell the truth, I said, from a friend, we were introduced over the phone. He wanted my friends name and I told him, her first and last name. (which I'm sure by then he knew that was his mom, we had to put her name on the applications). He wanted me to explain how we were put on the phone to talk that day. Which was to say hi and we exchanged email addresses. I never refered to my friend, as his mother. He did ask me if my friend was paying me to get him to the US and I told him no, she would never do that. Anyway, we had no problems at the interview. You'll have a little time to think about it, I see you got the approval on the petition, wonderful news!!! Of course in the end you are going to do, what you want to do. Just remember, if you don't lie, you never have to worry about getting caught. All this being said, I wish you the best and a speedy visa approval.
I know you didn't post your question, to hear my story, but I thought it would help you in some way. Sorry if it was so lengthy

OK I know how everyone on VJ does not like lawyers so first of all, I know I could have done it myself with out the lawyer blah blah blah..heard it all dont need to hear it again...

With that out of the way, we used a lawyer, I felt better knowing that I had someone to answer legal questions and help us with the overwhelming paperwork. Before I traveled to Nigeria at any time, he would tell me whatever I did not to do ANYTHING that could be interpreted as a wedding ceremony... traditional, tribal, saying vows only to each other in a room alone...are you getting the idea? He said that you never know what could be concidered legal and binding in another country, he did not want us to risk having to start the process all over again, or have any problems of any kind. So we did not. I took his advice pretty seriously, this is a man who has done this sort ofthing for many many people and I trusted his advice.

During our interview we were asked more than once, by two different officers if we loved each other so much why did we not marry in Nigeria? We told them the truth that our lawyer told us not to, I even produced an email that the lawyer had sent me stating so. They seemed satistied with that.

As far as the officers in Nigeria not being mean...that may be the opinion of some, unfortunately that was not my experience, we were put through a lot of hell for nothing, I think that the first officer was having a bad day that first day he denied just about EVERYONE and sent a lot of people to the Fraud Investigation Unit. The first officer interviewed my husband twice before sending us there. The second time he interview him he told my husband that he would interview him last that day, I know he did this on purpose, he was a nasty mean man and he said a lot of horrible things to my husband. When we finally met with the officer in the Fraud Unit it was my chance to finally speak and really that officer was a nice man, he did his job but he was not an A$$ about it, really he did not see why were sent to his unit and assured us that everything would be fine.

Our case is pretty cut and dry, I personaly think that the first officer was prejudice and that he why he gave us such a hard time. I know of others who have had problems too. I did everything right and had trouble, I would hate to see you have trouble over something that should be a happy moment in your life. That is my experience and my opinion.

You know, you could always wait until after your interview to have the traditional ceremony. It's not legal and won't interfere with your entry on your visa and won't cause turmoil or confusion at the interview. Just adjust the date. That way your family is happy and you don't have to stress or consider lying or anything of the sort. Has anyone said this yet? It seems like the best of both worlds really. You have six months to use the visa to enter, so you can do the traditional wedding before you come to the US and do the legal one. Duh?

Good point.