My fiancee seems to be totally confused - someone told her that she has to get some document from somewhere in Russia
that she is leaving Russia and would not be living at the current address (the address whis documented on her passport etc).

Has anyone heard of this before? anyone done anything like this when leaving Russia on K1 visa?

I never heard of that and we didn't do it, arrived in US with no problem. As long as she has a K1 visa in her passport she should not have a problem.

No documents needed to leave Russia with a K1 visa. It used to be a requirement many years ago - you had to obtain so-called exit visa to leave Russia. You had to get it from OVIR office and it was a real hassle. That time is long gone, now she does not need any documents.

ok great thanks.

It seems the address etc are documented on the internal russian passport (which I believe is not really a passport but a form of ID).

My only other question is that her international passport is going to expire in 2009 and we would need to renew it here in US - would there be any related issues at that time?

No problem to renew her international passport in US - just go through Russian Embassy in Washington, DC. You have to send them a renewal form, her old passport, photos, money order and a copy of her green card. Very easy and hassle-free, takes about 2 months. I have done it myself with no problems.

Your faïence is right for wanting to get this document, it's called a ""адресный листок убытия".
It comes into play if your fiancée desires to be registered at a Russian Consulate in the US. Biggest benefit to the registration is that you can return to Russia and have a universal propiska for 90 days.
For more on the requirement see below:
"Граждане Российской Федерации, выехавшие за границу без штампа в заграничном паспорте "Для проживания за границей" и впоследствии прошедшие в России процедуру снятия с регистрационного учета по месту прописки, при постановке на консульский учет в Генконсульстве должны представить внутренний паспорт гражданина Российской Федерации, в котором стоит штамп "Снят с регистрационного учета" и "адресный листок убытия" с записью о снятии с регистрационного учета за выездом на постоянное место жительства в США, а также копии вышеупомянутых документов (страниц внутреннего паспорта и листка убытия)."
http://www.consulrussia.org/files.htm

However, if you are talking about just leaving Russia, nothing is required except a valid document showing right of entry into next place of destination and a valid Russian International Passport.

As for renewing the Russian passport, of course it can be done at a Russian consulate in the US. However, it is something like 5 times cheaper to do it in Russia. $150 v. 450 roubles. So if there is time I'd renew it in Russia.

thanks.

I apologize for asking but what is 'universal propiska'?

I made up the term really.
But in Russia each citizen is registered with the police station or some ministry. They have their little stamp / seal in their internal passport indicating which region they are registered in (propiska). If a Russian citizen travels outside that city / region they are required to register at their new location. Not being registered at all or being outside the place of registration will constitute a fine and a possible detention. Same thing for not caring your internal passport around. Keep in mind the 4th amendment of no unreasonable searches and seizures does not exist in Russia. Neither do any of the other US constitutional amendments, such as due process of law, equal protection, speedy trial, right to an attorney, etc.
Many Russians live in flats. Many of their taxes and utility bills are tied to the amount of people registered under one address. Therefore, in many cases staying registered in Russia and living in the US will hurt the other family members who are there. Being taken off register and not registering anywhere hurts you when you make subsequent trips to Russia.

For a historical prospective go to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propiska

Also check out this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_passport
At the bottom it lists all the places Russians can travel visa free!

This exit stamp and document might be useful when registering with the Russian consulate in the U.S. To vote, for example. But it can be done through the same consulate when already in the States.
Check out this: http://www.russianembassy.org/CONSULAT/registr.htm

This "someone" over there sure seems to give a lot of advice to a lot of girls but never seems to thoroughly explain why and never seems to narrow it down to applicable instances. I wish this "someone" would get their story straight or at least be a little more descriptive like the "someones" here on VJ! It's like these girls hear all the urban legends and half-truths about visas issued "once upon a time" but never about anyone who actually went through the process. Is it because the successful sisters never go back and post the after-action reports? Come on ladies.... follow up! Don't leave your sisters behind!!!



The two reasons for changing the address have already been posted. If she's living with someone, she can change it to save them money on utilities or if she's living alone and will not be dealing with her previous address (after she joins you) then she doesn't need to worry about it at all. No exit visa/stamp or anything like that required, so the only real consideration here is if she's registered with someone it will possibly save them some cash. (Or if she would like to register with the embassy here in the U.S.)

The way my wife explained it, her mother was already in some kind of discount program where she paid a cheaper rate regardless of how many people lived there or not and it was based on actual energy consumption, not on number of persons listed as living in the residence. So, like the termination of the exit visa, that may be becoming more modern as well.

I disagree based on personal experience. The Russian consulate in San Francisco told us to go to Russia to get the "листок убытия" and that they could not take her off the local register in her own city. She was already off! She just didn't have the paper to prove it! They can only do something if you have the letter or the stamp in either passport.

We've done this in New York (where nothing can be done by mail, only by personally showing up...)

The new згранпаспорт now needs to be registered with MID upon arrival in Russia, or it can't be used to exit the country again! The message they included describing this process is attached to this message: Click Here

Has anyone here actually done this passport registration before (registering a renewed foreign travel passport obtained from the consulate in the U.S. while keeping propieska in Russia)? How long will the registration of the new foreign passport take upon application?

Sorry, forgot to also include the stamps inside the new foreign travel passport which cause this to be necessary...

Click Here for Passport Stamps Image (numbers & dates blanked out)

I apologize but I do not understand any of this.
Is it possible for you explain this please?

When you apply for a new foreign passport in the U.S. while still registered with an address in Russia (i.e., still with propieska and an interior passport), the new foreign passport comes with those stamps and that message. When you go back into Russia with it, the message and stamps say you must go to the MID office to register the issuance of the new foreign passport into the interior passport. If you don't do that and get a registration completion stamp placed into the foreign passport by MID, the message says you can't leave Russia with the passport until it is done.

As we are about to go back into Russia with this new foreign passport, my question relates to how long does it take to get this registration process done so we can also leave Russia with it. We are hoping same day service, but I'd like to know if anyone has done this and can say more about it.

The answer to this question, at least for us, it is a drop off your passports with MID in the afternoon and come back the next morning to pick them up service. Additional stamps are placed in both passports to render the zagranpassport issued through the Russian embassy now complete and valid for exiting Russia. No additional fee for this service, definitely an inconvenient chore if you don't live in or near Moscow, but we were able to do this without problem upon entry to Russia even though the zagranpassport was issued over 2 years ago but was never used to enter Russia until now.

All Russian citizens can legally reside away from their registered place of residence for up to 3 months, it is not a special benefit of having removed your propiska! (rather, it is all that is left after you removed it). When propiska is removed for foreign residence, the interior passport is supposedly invalidated and taken away from you, and upon exiting the country, you are subject to special customs requirements for those emigrating from the country permanently.

In general, removing propiska and registering at the embassy is only really necessary when the place of residence is sold and you don't have a place to be registered at any longer. It not suggested to do this until you have U.S. citizenship or at least have lawful permanent residence in the U.S. (i.e. a green card) (in fact, I don't think the embassy will accept a registration without proof of one of those statuses).

A valid and properly endorsed zagranpassport with more than 1 year of validity remaining is the only document required to exit Russia.

In my wife's case she was not registered anywhere, for some time until she registered in San Francisco. Therefore, she was subject to fines in every city she went if someone asked to see her internal passport (i.e. Moscow everywhere, and airports her own city).
Also I'd like to know the cite for this Russian law. Because in Moscow they continue to collect fines unless you get a local temporary registration within 72 hours (I am talking locals here). Not sure when it was increased to 90 days or how in the world you'd win your case when you are randomly stopped on the streets of Moscow.

I don't have the cite, but it is 72 hours (3 days) for non-Russian citizens to register their visa in each city they reside in, but 90 days for Russian citizens to move their propiska if they reside someplace new (i.e. register a new residence).

Propiska is meant to be a permanent residence, you cannot move it day by day, and there is no temporary resident registration for Russian citizens as far as I know like there is for non-Russian citizens. Merely visiting a city to see a friend or relative or do business or pass through in travel is not in any way taking up a temporary residence in that city either.


Russian citizens not having any propiska anywhere, however, yes could very well be subject you to fines, unless you are merely in transit to a new residence and to take up registration there.

Yes, and it MUST be within 3 days of entering Russia, even if you are in transit. You can not, for instance, arrive in Moscow and then take a train to the far east. You must register first in Moscow, and then register again wherever you arrive.

I found this out the hard way (In Moscow they would not register my visa, since I was leaving for Lipetsk in a few days). In Lipetsk, they fined me for not registering in Moscow. I also had to write an essay explaining my guilt in visa registration matters (Russian classes were worth something I guess).

I'm just a little curious about this experience of yours... this was a direct airport to train station transfer, or did you stay overnight somewhere? Because, if it was a direct transfer, there was never an address in Moscow you could register under... How did you describe what you should have done in your essay?

My understanding on this subject was (maybe it changed with the introduction of the migration card in 2003), you only have to register the visa within 3 days if your stay in the city is for 3 days or more. For example, if you enter Russia with a Transit Visa, you don't have to register it (can't register it?) to exit Russia because the visa only allows you to stay in Russia for up to the 72 hour days maximum without being registered, provided it eventually gets registered within 3 days of entry.

Stayed one day in Moscow, then on to Lipetsk the next day. Couldn't register the next day in Lipetsk, as the office closed after I arrived that day. Since it was over 72 hours since arrival in Moscow, there were fines.

I couldn't register in Moscow (tried to) because my stay there was less than 72 hours. If I had stayed in Moscow a week I think it would have been okay.

Try explaining this to Moscow militia on every corner. You pretty much have to have all your travel documents and reservations on you, plus a print out of the law, and after a good days worth of detensions they'll release you if you refuse to pay the bribe as a local who is merely visiting friends for one or two months in Moscow! Plenty of my wife's friends have had to pay for not doing a "local temporary" registration while "temporarily" residing in Moscow. This requires someone who does have a Moscow Propiska to go with you (must all the be the person who is in charge of the place you are staying). Hard to find someone who does and someone willing to waste their day with you. This is what the militia guy told us when we got stopped. Luckily for both of us local and foreign it was still the day after arrival. We avoided contact with them for the next 2 weeks during our stay in Moscow.

It's true, when I was registering my visa in 2004, a grandma from Ukraine who traveled for 6 days to Siberia by train was slapped with a 1000 ruble find for not registering within 72 hours! That's big money in 2004 and when you are a pensioner from the Ukraine.

I also thought Saturday, Sunday, and Holidays were excluded from the 3 days (meaning, you can register late in those circumstances because they were closed on the deadline).

They kept weird hours, like being open 9-11 AM Thursday, then 6-8PM Sunday, or something like that. Since the line was longer than they are open for, it is easy to spend a few days going there before someone helps you. We arrived at night, after they had already closed, but that day still counts.

They didn't count Sunday, but they counted back from the time the plane landed in Moscow, so it didn't matter (they weren't open that early in the morning Monday)

I would do that and take it to the DEZ-she knows what that is,since her family will not be charged for bills on her part anymore,like water and stuff.