I know we've done this one to death and the chances are slim, but which way do you guys think holds the highest probability of succes?

Visitor, Student, Work through some bogus company?

My wife's sister would like to visit the U.S. for a few weeks. She's single and unemployed but she does own a pretty nice apartment. I know a straight up visitor visa has little chance of being approved, but there have been instances on here of people's siblings or in-laws visiting for a few weeks with not too much hassle. How did they go about doing it?

Any suggestions?

Slim, a student visa will require your wife's sister to actually gain admission to a school in America. Pay out of state tuition for at least one year, which means showing the consulate about $10,000 to $25,000 in a bank account. That said you are up against either a financial burden or the admission burden. Remember the students need high TOEFL scores and the like.
A bogus company might not be a bad idea, however, you are up against fraud and money issues again. Some of the more creative ways of doing a bogus company is using the L1 inter company visa, when a real US company sets up a bogus company in order to transfer employees in. These companies are of course looking for specialists for "lower wages than US workers" and are not just messing around. H1B's require a Baccalaureate degree or higher and are over subscribed. Likewise other non-immigrants work visas have multiple year queues. Unless she qualifies as an O visa, extraordinary ability (noble prize, etc), the work visa isn't going to work.
J1 visa might work if she gets involved with some organization to be sent here to work as an exchange student over the summer or winter period in between school. There are 12 different kinds of J visas, but again they will be pricey in terms of organizational fees.
That brings you full circle back to a visitor visa or as crazy as it sounds a bogus fiancée visa! You have plenty of buddies Slim, I am sure it can be arranged and you are already an expert on what has to be done to get by.
Okay back to the visitor's visa. Probably not enough on what she has. You can pay some Russian company or use your own connections to secure fake documents showing a high earning job, memberships, car and property ownership. A letter from employer stating length of absence and expectancy to return to work.

I don't know what else to say. I hope they don't censor my post for my "ideas".

I hope they don't censor your post either, but I do have to wonder how Slim's wife's status might be affected if they were to catch him committing Visa fraud. I don't plan on jaywalking for the next 2 years after my gal arrives, let alone play games with the USCIS. That's playing for keeps.

Slim, maybe an immigration lawyer could steer you in the right direction. Pay up for the initial consult and then do the rest the VJ way.

First of all Slim is not likely to get caught unless he sets up a business in doing this or something like trafficking in people for labor or sexual purposes. One isolated case won't draw attention to him. Usually only the visa applicants are punished.
But for the sake of guessing, if he was caught, he could probably stay out on bail long enough to lift conditions for his wife. And even if he is incarcerated he is still married. However, I see your point on his marriage being questioned as well. But it is all a guess here.
Being in jail would certainly effect the initial AOS, where the USC spouse must be present, but lifting conditions and citizenship are all on paper. And on paper they are fine even if he is jail or convicted. Because no one cares for the USC's criminal record unless he is doing a K1 or the immigrant is applying for benefits under VAWA.

You guys have dealt with FSU stuff long enough by now to know one should never have dirt on their own hands. Come on, didn't you learn anything getting your visa to Russia? (If that's not a bogus system, I don't know what is.)

Satellite, thanks for the "ideas." That's exactly what I was looking for - a real world, no BS assesment of the visas and the possiblilty of getting one.

And to all those out there that read "how do I scam a visa for my sister-in-law?", you read way too much into it. I have had several buddies "volunteer" to make a fiancee visa but in reality, there's no need. She has a "sponsor" already who is willing to pay for everything, so I'm sure they'll be able to come up with something.

Myself and my wife are going to have no part of it except maybe to send an invitation letter if necessary, but even that looks to be unnecessary.

Anyone out there actually have siblings visit? How???

Not likely to get a visa, especially if unemployed.

Is it just as hard for girls from the P.I. to get visitor visas?

Probably even worse then from Russia. As far as I am aware there is no Moscow phenomenon in the Philippines, at least the Moscowites have a shot in my opinion.

There is somewhat of a similar deal there although it's not from wealth. It's from an American connection. The U.S. military was stationed there for many years following WWII and since then there are familial ties and business associates around the islands that still have some "pull" with the U.S. government.

Are they the girls trying to get visas? Probably not, but there is an "in" there as well.

Slim I think you understand how difficult it can be. My wife's daughter came over last year on her K-2 but only stayed about two months and returned to go to university in Russia, and (after all) she likes her life in Russia. We thought a J-1 student work and travel visa would be great for her this summer. We had met many Russian and Ukrainian university students in Orlando working and making money for the summer. Checked in to it and used a visa company in Russia that was working with a large group of students. Even they thought she would have an easy time of it since she had been here before and returned without any problems or overstays. WRONG

She had to attend the interview at the embassy like everyone else. They only asked her a few question. They said "We see you have been to the US before?" She told them yes. with her mother.... They said "We see your mother is married and now living in the US?" She explained about her mother's K-1 and marriage.... They said " VISA DENIED" It was a very sad day.

I had several communications with the embassy about this and the only thing they told me was that she was free to apply again, and that she MUST be proactive with her information to the CO. In other words before he asks she must indicate why she will return (enrolled university student, etc, etc) and have more proof of returning. I even called my senators office and they were just plain stupid (they could not understand what I was telling them...) but basically said that the embassy can do what they want.

Your sister-in-laws chances are.....slim

Exactly my case. In January I obtained a B1-B2 visa through my cousin and her USC husband, without disclosing that I had a fiance in the States. My cousin and her hubby wrote an invitation letter and provided letters from their employers. I provided letter from my employer and my car ownership docs. I own no apartment but my earnings are way above the Moscow average and I was able to persuade the CO that I was focused on pursuing a career in Russia. They questioned me about my job and asked if I was married; I said I had a boyfriend. "A grazhdansky muzh?" - joked the CO. - "Yeah, I guess so..."

So I think your sis-in-law has to arrange a fake employment letter, at least, and present herself very confidently at the visa interview. She has a chance.

This seems to be the general concensus. It seems if she were to present an employment letter and proof of owning her apartment, all the while stressing she was just coming to "visit" with all intentions of returning, she has a ..... slim chance.

Now if she can only find someone to make her an employment letter..... hmmmm.




Thanks for all the posts, everyone.

This might be getting into "off topic" territory, but How much do they check up on something like that? I mean, will they check tax ID numbers and all that? Or will they pretty much take them at face value?

What would stop you from creating a little S-Corp (less than a $100 to file in most states), call yourself a "web developer," and then create the employment letter with the intent that she is your Russian translator so you can develop multi-language websites? It's a little contrived example, but just wondering about the technicalities.

Slim,

I think your best chance is to write a letter of invitation to your sister-in-law and forward a copy to the embassy. Attach a cover letter to the embassy stressing that she owns her own home and is only planning a visit to see her sister. If possible, you might have her get a letter from an employer in her town stating that she is off work due to a temporary slow down and that her job should be restored when the work picks up. There are probably a few employers that would be willing to write that letter for a few bucks.

That's probably your best shot.

Does she or her parents have any friends who own/ run a private business?
Have them print a letter on their company letterhead, sign and seal it with their company seal. Show an income of no less than $1500/ month in rouble equivalent.
Show a bank account with $ x,000 in it. She must know how to explain in detail what she does at her work and what are her career plans.

It is the Russian employment that would matter. Once your wife is a citizen, she can petition for her immediate family members. This will take many years, but should eventually work.

As for a student visa (F-1) - these are pretty good. By the way, my wife didn't need to take the TOEFL, though she did need decent GRE scores. International students paying full out-of-state tuition don't typically have much trouble getting into state schools.

For an L-1 - assuming you have a reasonably successful business in the US, you would create a Russian business and employ her for at least a year. Then you would apply for an L-1 for her to do similar work in the US. Plan on needing to pay at least $100,000 US, for at least 3 years. High tech and medical industries are best. L-1 is in many ways a much better visa than the H1-B (it already has immigrant intent built in, and typically turns into a green card after 3 years).

There is beginning to be a backlash against the H1-B programs, as they are often abused by employers to force down wages. They also create indentured servents out of employees (specifically Indians the computer industry) by forcing them not to leave their current employers. Abuse and even fraud are becoming common here (forged credentials, resumes, and backgrounds, etc.).

Thanks for all the advice and tips, everyone.

After doing some more research on other sites (and considering the advice offered here as well) it looks like the only thing we're going to be able to do is offer an invitation letter and some financial support documentation for the duration of the stay. She'll have to take the $100 gamble all on her own, but at least we could put up some "room and board" coverage.

There's no way with my limited resources here we could do any kind of business invitation or anything like that and the student, fiancee, family member visas all take too long. She just wants to come visit. That's it.

She has some pretty good resources there though so if they want "proof" of something, shouldn't be too hard for a resourceful person like her to get what they want.

I'll post an update here in a few weeks/months to let everyone know how it goes.

Of course there are visas for Religious reasons and perhaps cultural exchange.
... Just a thought.

There are also white dresses worn at weddings......

Thanks for the outside-chance, but I'm pretty sure they'd shoot that one down faster than all the rest combined. But, who knows, the resourcefulness of the "sponsor" for her trip may have a few tricks up his sleeve.

Work through bogus company - don't even try it!
Visitor - slim to none would be the word
Student - best approach

However, advice I've heard (but have never been able to use, because these people don't listen!) is having travelled elsewhere in Europe (outside CIS) some time before applying will help significantly. The passport stamps showing foreign departure apparently have some value in proving the intent to return is genuine.

Student visa can be to attend any approved higher educational program, including English language programs. The only catch is Student visa is for full-time students only. Application process involves first getting an I-20 from the school, showing proof of sufficient funds to attend the institution, and probably Form I-134 from someone in the U.S. where they might be staying, especially if not living on campus. Admission will be "D/S". School attendance will be tracked through SEVIS.

That sounds like a lot of work and money on my end, and that's just not going to happen.

You guys are looking at this backwards as Russ pointed out a few posts ago. It doesn't matter what's going on here in the U.S., it matters what's going on (or what's "said to be" going on) in Russia.

I've also heard visiting "foreign" countries and returning could help but it's not always the deciding factor. It seems to be the higher the value of property/assets (or potential property and assets through employment) the higher the probability a visa will be issued.

Student visa means I'd have to somehow get documents from a school here in the U.S. proving she's going to school full time or visitor visa means she'll have to come up with documents from an "employer" in Russia showing her "salary"....

I'm not sure which one is going to be easier to obtain.

Come on! This isn't even a question of "which one should we go for?" And as far as "don't even try it!" I think you should familiarize yourself a little more with "bizness" in Russia. (I know you had the whole deal with your fiancee's police documents and not being able to obtain them, so maybe that's what's got you apprehensive to "try it", but you have to keep in mind, in that part of the world, "trying it" is the way you "do it.")

Salary and property are only one component. The consular officers want to see a combination of financial and/or family ties to prove intent to return. Usually, that winds up meaning leaving behind a spouse and/or minor children, and showing employment or property. Young children (under age 16) may also qualify since their ties to their parents are still considered very strong, and they really aren't old enough to live on their own or get married yet. Showing just business/employment and property, for an unmarried young woman, probably is not going to cut it and smells strongly of fraud.


The issue is that submitting a false/fraudulent document or misrepresenting a material fact (such as a business or salary) triggers a permanent inadmissibility for any type of visa, ever! And when you go to apply for an immigrant visa for her as the sister of a U.S. citizen one day, they will want her to declare every place she lived or worked over entire life, every visa she ever applied for, etc., so it will only come back to haunt you! It is not a good idea to make up evidence, and this employment/business letter alone is not going to be enough to get the visa for her anyway.


What I have to deal with is the 50-year old mother/mother-in-law having been denied visitor's visas twice because she is unmarried (divorced) and has no minor children and just owns an apartment and has some employment (and no prior foreign travel) and has a daughter in the U.S. It isn't enough for the officers, 214( b ) all the same, believe me! The case I am dealing with now is an immigrant visa for this same mother/mother-in-law, because there simply is no other way they will let her come here! (and she is the one, not a fiancee, who was born in Abkhazia and has not lived there for 30 years but should need an additional police certificate from there to get this immigrant visa---NVC completed case without it but I still think the issue will come up at interview)

You are dealing with the U.S. government, not the Russian government, do not forget that when it comes to "trying"!

This is going to be "her thing" not ours. Sure, she could get "black-listed" in the long run, but in truth, I don't ever see her being applied for as the sister of a U.S. citizen. She has no desire to come here and my wife has no desire to become a citizen. And for LPR purposes, same deal.

There is really no way to say it is "fraud" if she has certified documents. That's where all this "bizness" comes in. She's dealing with the U.S. embassy, but all the papers and everything else are foreign papers and if they say they're official, who are we to say they're not?

Same deal goes with your MIL. I was thinking "man, what a horrible situation to be in" trying to get the fiancee over here and having to worry about getting papers from a state that doesn't exist (and so many references to Krakozhia came to mind) then I was thinking, "wow, it's been a while since I've seen someone from Russia with a 50-year-old fiancee".... but anyway, if you were to have a financial backer that was capable of making documents that were "official" then you could submit those to the U.S. embassy.

Sure it's not the best way to go about it, but in some cases, it's the way it's normally done.

This is going to be "her thing" not ours. Sure, she could get "black-listed" in the long run, but in truth, I don't ever see her being applied for as the sister of a U.S. citizen. She has no desire to come here and my wife has no desire to become a citizen. And for LPR purposes, same deal.

There is really no way to say it is "fraud" if she has certified documents. That's where all this "bizness" comes in. She's dealing with the U.S. embassy, but all the papers and everything else are foreign papers and if they say they're official, who are we to say they're not?

Same deal goes with your MIL. I was thinking "man, what a horrible situation to be in" trying to get the fiancee over here and having to worry about getting papers from a state that doesn't exist (and so many references to Krakozhia came to mind) then I was thinking, "wow, it's been a while since I've seen someone from Russia with a 50-year-old fiancee".... but anyway, if you were to have a financial backer that was capable of making documents that were "official" then you could submit those to the U.S. embassy.

Sure it's not the best way to go about it, but in some cases, it's the way it's normally done.

Not choosing to naturalize when you are otherwise eligible is generally considered foolishness. Permanent residents can be deported, must actually permanently reside in the U.S., must always answer "NO" to being a U.S. citizen, must report all address changes to USCIS within 10 days, and otherwise can be subjected to some difficulties. Only if you don't speak English or have committed a deportable offense, only then would it be a better idea not to naturalize. As for the sister's intentions 15 years for now, I guess we'll have to take your word for it as fact.


Sure, manufacture a false police certificate document from Republic of Georgia and submit it in support of an immigrant visa application... The problem is, U.S. embassy in Moscow has never seen one issued to someone in this circumstance, but has always seen people not be able to obtain them. Put the case under administrative review. 15 months later, comparison with police certificates received at the embassy at Tbilisi for immigrant visas applied for there shows the document is not authentic. Visa denied for misrepresentation, thank you very much!

I agree with Chris here. Getting out of Jury duty, having an insignificant tax break, and avoiding an unlikely draft order are not really good reasons for not becoming a US citizen. And even if you have committed deportable offenses, when you apply to renew your card you can still come up on the radar. So only the English requirement remains as a truly good reason. And at age 50 with 20 years of being a PR, even the English is waived! So Slim for your own piece of mind, get her to become a USC. When I worked in a immigration office, my biggest question to most of the clients was why did you not naturalize, because being deported for a simple drug possession after living 15 years in this country is just one extreme example.

I think you have done all you can. Just wait until the interview and see what they say before trying something extreme either in a dangerous attempt to enter the territory or using false documents.

Naturalizing also has the benefit of cancelling out the the I-864 Affidavit of Support early. That can be a strong incentive for the sponsor to see that the immigrant naturalizes, especially if the immigrant will be eligible for cash public benefits once the naturalization is completed.


What the OP doesn't understand, in particular with regard to his sister-in-law, is while in Russia it is only important that a document have official stamps to be legally accepted (regardless of how it was actually obtained), in the U.S., a document with official stamps but which was not actually officially issued is considered fraudulent and is not valid for any purpose. Try driving on a false driver's license which looks 100% like an actual one and get stopped by a policeman and see how far it will get you! (in fact, this phenomenon actually happens quite often with underage alcohol violations) Especially in matters involving immigration, it is never a good idea to submit a false document, because the law and the officers know they are accepting foreign documents that they cannot verify, and when they find evidence that a foreign document submitted is actually false, they have zero tolerance for the applicant, assume everything is false, and will deny all benefits to the applicant forever (unless of course an extreme hardship to a USC waiver is approved, but that's a really hard standard to overcome).

For the future status of my wife and her sister, that's going to be entirely up to them. At present, they show no desire what-so-ever to be connected to this country. Over time, sure, that may change. But, for now, I'm leaving it strictly up to them. And the application of/for benefits, visas, U.S. associations, employment, studies, is all up to them as well. They're big girls. They can figure it out.

On the document situation though, you're making it sound like the U.S. govt. (through the embassy) thoroughly checks every document submitted and verifies all items listed. Like they have time to do that. Sure, it could come back to haunt someone making false claims, but in reality, the chances of them doing that thorough of an investigation for something as minor as a visitor visa are slim to none.

Comparing the "background check" conducted on applicants at the foreign embassy to a police officer checking a bogus ID here in the States is like comparing the "audit" done by taxes.com to the "audit" done in an office at the IRS.

Closed for TOS violations.