I'm not posting this to be insensitive. I feel badly for anyone who loses a love they thought would last forever, ESPECIALLY after all most of us go thru to be together. Yet, there has been a spade of breakups recently and I'm hoping we can turn a negative into a positve and use the experiences of those among us who are now wiser to avoid some possible pitfalls AND to reexamine red flags not seen by rose colored glasses.

Any thoughts?

Yeah... um if your neighbor sees him bring home a blond and take her into your house when you are at work, thats a flag right?

If you find condoms in his car... um thats a flag right?
If he files an asylum claim claiming membership in hamas and men with black cars come to your door with guns drawn, thats a flag right?
And 2 years later they are still looking for him because hes been gone 4 years and STILL USING YOUR ADDRESS... ( oh yes.. I am so not kidding )

LOL
LOL
LOL
LOL
and LOL

funny now that he is soooooooooooooooooooooo gone

am i to understand that those above (marked with *) happened to you?

um yeah.. and a hell of a lot worse.. so bad that I have a permanent injunction against him and he even broke that... he was one scary as hell guy...He used to tell women he was greek ( yeah if Greece had a city named Ramallah LOL LOL

Oh I left out garbage bag full of social security cards.... car dealer friends who traded in fake papers.... oh and the whole giving 6 other people my address without asking me and I am getting all of Nablus's mail. Um LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Before he came or you married, were there any indications? Now that you can look back, was there something you missed that you see now? I know that i've looked hard at my SO. I've looked for what I'd consider the warning signs that are typical...

Im sorry you have to endure all that.

sounds like a great guy to me.why did you guys breakup ?LOL

After that whole experience (the guns/ss cards) I would be REALLY scared to marry someone from MENA again! Did it take you a long time to be able to trust again and go through the process to bring someone over?

yes ....yes and yes.. and from a completely different social and educational background and country and culture..I met the other one when he was already here....And he was legal at the time we met on a student visa


LOL LOL LOL LOL

The whole pretending to be Greek all the time was the funniest part . I lived in Greece in 1985 so that was kind of really funny for me.....He told me he was from Ramallah.. I actually felt sorry for him because I thought at the time he must feel really bad about himself to lie like that. He even had like stickers with greek flags and had a whole story. He never used it with me but there are still girls that think they were dating a greek guy. I talked to one and she told me he said he was an orphan from Greece. Well to come to think of it, I know a moroccan guy who tells girls that he is a professional Italian soccer player. Oh well...

life happens, both men and women deceive (or can) no matter where they are from....the lucky ones go into a relationship with equal intent and love and make it work the others will find some degree of not being equal on some point from one partner and it fails. This is relationships from day one of time.

OMG

This is funny to me because I once dated an Iraqi (for a short time) who told me he was Greek when we met. He thought I wouldn't want to date him if I knew he was Iraqi. He pulled it off for awhile because #1 He looked Greek and #2 He lived in Greece for three years and could speak the language fluently. I found out the truth when I met the parents. Good times....

This is certainly true, but it's equally true that there are patterns in break-ups. It's not questioning the integrity of personal relationships to wonder whether there are patterns or warning signs that could conceive vary by culture.

Well..he was a beautiful charasmatic man and had a lot of desirable qualities and I think we were really in love at many parts of our relationship. I look back at pictures from years ago and cry a little because if he had not been constantly unfaithful with random women he met at work and had more self esteem, I think things would have been alot different. I learned alot from him.
When I caught him was when our world unraveled. Then I searched his car while he was sleeping ( yes not real ethical) I found so many things that freaked me out that I was unable to calm down. Then the whole asylum thing ( came to a head when the feds showed up at my door) I mean the whole trade in fake social security cards and fake papers was pretty common 7 years ago before 9 11. To this day I hear about illegals I have known through the year getting picked up with fake passports..
I had never dated or known anyone from outside of our country at this point ( we are talking 7 years ago) His childhood was so rough growing up in the camps. I supported and loved him. I remember one time I was throwing out moldy bread and he took it from the trash and started eating it and yelled at me. So many parts of me still love him. But his friends were so creepy. They were all involved in crime in one way or another and I think that did not help. Poverty and a hard childhood can do things to people. All his teeth were so rotten and he had gotten them capped in the US. There were so many truly sad things about him. When I made him leave, I packed his suitcase and washed all his clothes and made him food and gave him bedding and cried and cried. He tried about a million times to come back and apologise but after all the other women, the lies, the crime and the beatings it became unbearable. Sometimes people carry things they never get over.

I remember listening to ENTA OUMRI and sitting on my sofa and weeping. Do you know what weeping is? Its when the tears dont stop for hours and you really are not crying. You just love so hard and so much. I remember ramadan with him. I remember him telling me put your finger in my coffee bb, you are so sweet. I remember all the times he did things right. I still do this day GRIEVE for him and its been years. I felt so much empathy for him. To this day. I cannot look at his pictures.

My new relationship and every other relationship has suffered because of what this man did to me. I was so innocent at this point.. I never realised how much. I know he loved me the best he could... Even when I got a permanent restraining order against him ,he would have a palestinian call me to see what I was doing. Who I was with. I just got another piece of mail from a traffic court for him. He is still using my address years later. We had everything going for us. Similar ages. Similar education. We were a beautiful couple...just beautiful... He tore us completely apart. I lost part of myself and he remains a very dark chapter for me. I resent the criminals he hung around from his country. I resent him for tearing our lives apart because he could not be faithful. Every time he would cheat , I would get presents. Just so many things.

I would never date or hang around or even befriend someone from palestine because of what I endured. Not because they are bad people. Anything that remotely evokes his country, the songs or the food brings me searing pain. To this day, I will not eat the food from this part of the world ( I got very good at cooking it) or listen to any Egyptian music ( his favorite) He wounded me. I know sometimes he drives by my house and looks for me. I know he keeps tabs on me to this day. It was really the darkest years of my life loving someone so much and watching them tear their life apart. I remember finding pot in his pockets and fighting him to throw it away.. I loved him so much .. I was the first person to go to disney world with him. I was his first best friend in the US. It was so sad what happened to us... And to this day, I cherish every minute I spent with him.. But I had to leave him or it would have been the end of my life.... The final straw was when I found my mortgage statement in his glove compartment. He had consulted an attorney to try to get equity from my house. After that I was able to do what I had to do to leave him

He always used to say to me LIFE IS NOT ALWAYS GOOD . When he woke up in his new apartment with no one to take his clothes to the cleaners or hug and console him, he found that out

To me there are so many red flags

Spousal abuse
Unwillingness to have a baby
Friends who dont talk to you
Other womens numbers in their cell

I know from my own experience that age is not always an indicator. We were exact in age and looks, both attractive.

A good reason for not comparing relationships or "cases". This kind of thing (fraud, spousal abuse, infidelity, etc.) can happen to ANYONE in any kind of relationship. Younger man/older woman, older man/younger woman or same age relationships can end in tragedy. It's so sad.

because clearly only males from this part of the world are involved in ss fraud and this other crap. super duper smart thinking here!


for sure, but guns and ss fraud don't constitute a cultural pattern or warning sign here.

omg
i don't think my last disasterous relationship could compare but it was bad enough. i've learned that old saying about a leopard never changes its spots is very true..

And I don't think GEG started the thread over guns or SS fraud, so we should be good.

i took the guns mentioned in the above post to be guns carried by law enforcement, not the husband.

Wahrania what happened to you is very sad It's good that you are out of that hurtful relationship now.

It is not good to blame an entire people for what one person did (or what one person and his friends did) -- it's not a positive thing for yourself. It would be as if you wanted to hate all men for what one man did. But perhaps you will be able to move past it one day.

You also talked about a bad experience with a Moroccan (who is I believe the father of your child.) Do you have trouble trusting or making friends with Moroccans ? That would also be very sad.

I agree.

I did the same when I first was divorced. I didn't want anything to do with Yemenis or their culture, food, etc. That lasted a couple months until I realized how ridiculous it was. It wasn't an entire nation or culture that I was bitter towards, it was ONE man (and a few of his family members). The rest of the Yemeni ppl didn't do anything to me.

Maybe it's time to move on from that bitternesss, Wahrania. You're now remarried and have beautiful children. Life is too short to hold onto that kind of pain and misery.

No...The man that made me weep was this man. I need to find this song so you guys can hear it..

Nothing that happened since will ever compare to what he did..


No... I actually really like North Africans and I have no bitterness towards them . Any bad experience since this guy pales in comparison to this oum kalthoum love

You'll move on when you're ready, if that ever happens. I just find it odd that you feel that other women haven't *wept* or had terrible things done to them besides yourself. Just like you act like you're the only one dealing with or have dealt with USCIS/immigration nonsense. Remind yourself that there are others out there who have experienced the same or worse than you. Maybe that will help you put things into perspective.

No actually I am sure they have.. I was just remembering a fall day years ago...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeoF74Vu180

OUM KALTHOUM ENTA OUMRI

That is super important to remember. Age is not always the biggest indicator... We were the same age and he and I are both attractive so there were not looks issues or any other issues. It was I think left over stuff from a really hard time of it ( jail time over there.). beatings.. etc... I think he carried alot of pain around with him> he told me as a child that the Israelis used to wake everyone up and make them stand outside and put hoses on them and one time he had to sew womens underwear with his mom for days on end just to have food to eat. sad and sad and sad.. I wanted so much to give him all the things he never had. He remains for me the darkest chapter of my life..

Thanks for the compliment!

Edited because despite how super duper smart I am, I spelled compliment with an e vs. an i.

I have alot of constructive things to add to this thread, but am buried with work at the moment. I will be posting my reply tonight.

Jaklen

I feel sorry for those on this MENA forum that are going through break ups or difficult times.

It has made me reflect and look deeply at my marriage and my husbands character. Even though I am sure of our relationship, I have a strong streak of self preservation and can look "coldly" at the facts sometimes. Luckily, my husband has demonstrated over and over that his commitment is to me no matter where I live in this world (we met when I was living in India and wasn't planning on returning to USA).

I think that once someone shares their breakup story, then others feel more comfortable and come out with theirs too. I doubt that there are more breakups lately than in the past. I just think people feel more comfortable talking about their stories.

I always wonder if the men who leave their wives have things planned out all along, or if they leave because of an indicent. I'm sure it varies. I personally think that some men probably have a plan in their head from day one when they meet an American woman on the internet. I think some will endure anything to get here and gain status to help their families or bring over family members. Too bad we don't have any insight from the bad apples!

very true.

I don't think you can learn much from them. I mean what is the point? If you are happy in your marriage and someone else in a similar situation to you breaks up, why would that apply to you? I think the only thing we can do is be there for the person going through the painful breakup. If you are going to apply other peoples situations and experiances to your own marriage, then you will be destined for the same fate.

No two marriage are alike. Don't compare.

Compare no, but be aware of odd behaviors, such as keeping money separate and not allowing contact with their family. I read recently of a woman who's fiance has not introduced her to his family yet.

I agree with this, and I beleive anyone who doubts that the scammers are out there surfing the cafes exist is fooling themselves, however I also want to point out that not every failed MENA marriage is a result of fraud.
There are so many variables and challenges involved with immigrating to a completely new and different culture. I think that many young MENA men have some pretty unrealistic visions and expectations of what life is going to be like in the US.
My husband had a very hard time adjusting to his new life (not helped AT ALL by a lengthy AOS delay and interim EAD denied twice which left him unable to work for almost a year). But the combination of several factors, like being lonely after a lifetime surrounded by friends and family, like missing the community feeling of the mosques and daily calls to prayer, like being dependent on someone else for EVERYTHING including money, added up to some months of struggle. I had tried to talk to him about these things before he got here but there's really no way to explain some of this stuff. There were certainly a few times when I felt some real doubt if we as a couple would be able to make it through. Obviously we DID, but if we hadnt and it had ended a different way for us I can say with absolute confidence that it would NOT have been due to fraudulent intent such as him using me for a green card. Nor would there have been any foreseeable 'red flags' to open my eyes to. SOme people just have an easier time assimilating and finding their feet in a new life than others..

That is not necessarily odd behaivior. If my husband and I have seperate accounts and we break up, you can't look at that situation and say "uh oh, we have seperate accounts too, I bet he is up to no good" You have to remember that only a portion of the story is shared here on VJ. Many many details are left out. We rarely even hear the second side of the story too.

yes.........some have it planned from start to finish....i can assure you of that....to the point that family members in the states help them plot......sad...but true....

i disagree. just as i've seen convicted burglars educate people on how to better protect their homes, i believe dismissing the input from someone who's engaged in a marriage for benefit like this is quite reckless and premature.

I didn't say I was dismissing anyone's input. But at the same I am not going to apply it to my life. I see it here all the time on VJ. Someone breaks up and then I get messages from people saying "oh Im next because I have this in common with that couple". That is not how to make a marriage work.

Just because one person is being used for someone elses benefit doesnt mean you can label every marriage that way. Many women in mena have had bad relationships in the past and its hard to trust again, however, if you mistrust your spouse because of what happened with someone elses situation then you are doing an injustice to yourself and your marriage. I have seen people ruin a perfectly good relationship/marriage over false accusations.

There are women on here who are MARRIED and haven't met their HUSBAND'S family yet. If that doesn't cry foul, don't know what does.

But how many of the girls who end up getting used or abused or abandoned see it before it happens? Few.

And when it does happen and the rest of us find out about it, have you noticed the spree of near-breakups that follow? (I can think of a few examples but won't name names--it's their business). It's hard enough to be separated from your loved ones and I really think sometimes a lot of the drama that happens here eats away at that strength that we NEED to get through this. I think that thought crosses each and everyone's mind at least once, certainly every time it happens to someone here. Not to mention everyone here probably has to deal with the naysayers in our family, circle of friends, coworkers...etc.

Frankly all these topics are scaring the hell out of me getting married is scary enough.

We need another warm/fuzzy topic. Right now. We need some good to balance out the bad.

Remember what happened after the last warm fuzzy? Didn't Olivia start it? I don't think that will help anything. Just focus on your own relationship and try not to get emotionally involved in any one else's. You know if things feel right in your relationship.

WHY?

We need another warm fuzzy thread? That's funny. Some people can't handle hearing the truth or any negativity whatsoever. Blinders, anyone?

A warm/fuzzy thread is not a panacea for bad relationships.

it's not all about you, jp. said input may help someone else.

And that's why. Because a lot of people around here assume that just because we don't want to hear it, we're putting blinders on. After reading half the negative topics around here anyone will think it could happen to them and that doesn't help anyone.

Off work soon and have a few things to say. I am not coming back on with warm smoke, unicorns and fuzzy kitties so the weak hearted might want to avoid this thread later today.

Jaklen

Did I say it was about me? Why is it an issue for you when I give my opinion. You disagree, that is fine, but there is no need to make it so personal. This is my opinion thats all.

i'm about to leave too, will be back if the weather permits - raining right now and no idea if it affects the satellite internet at home.
hang in there jackie

it mighta been your statement of "I didn't say I was dismissing anyone's input. But at the same I am not going to apply it to my life."
it's not personal jp, calm down. i still hold that *someone* could well benefit from the prior topic.