In response to the hot thread of Olivia and Waleed.

I know it is very hard for spouses to be seperate for a long time. It does make the "ties that bind" a couple together thin. Given this, do you think it acceptable that spouses maintain "extra" relationships via internet (or other modes of communication)?

My own personal view is that it is very wrong.

Someone suggested on the Olivia and Waleed thread that we should not expect people coming to USA to "change" because their "culture" is different.

However, I think muslims will say that it is not ok for a married muslim man to carry on "close friendship" with another woman who is not his wife. In fact, I think there are more defined rules of behaviour in muslim society preventing male/female socializing compared to that of western society.

I do not think there is any excuse for a man to talk to a young girl over the internet while he is married. I would not tolerate it and would never be able to trust the man again. It's unacceptable and no excuses can be made for that man.

This is not just about being Muslim and you can not generalize that eveyone in MENA is Muslim. I personally do not think it is acceptable and I know that my SO would not approve either.

I remember a friend once telling me about something she referred to as "emotional cheating". You don't have to be physical with someone in order to cheat. If your SO is sharing his/her close feelings, dreams, daily thoughts etc. with someone other than YOU, than that's a problem.

Sarah - I agree 100 percent!!!! and Well said.

Of course it's unacceptable Cheating is cheating.. Just the idea of someone even thinking of another person other than thier spouses that mean they are not LOYAL ..

I have seen several men who cheated on their wives from arabic cultures eventually calm down and be good husbands and behave themselves. Their wives were patient and put up with alot but the men eventually got it together and calmed down.( this was in North Africa though)I personally could forgive but then again I may be very different from others.. I certainly would not tell someone else how to feel or whether to forgive or not..I love my husband so much that I would be willing to give him another chance. Some women may not feel the same way.. Oh well

I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo not going to comment on double standards and the cabaret and bar culture because it will unleash a firestorm... Lets just say that there are certain women overseas who spend an inordinate amount of time with married men and it does not break up their marriages. It may not be RIGHT but it happens. There is the WIFE and then there is the woman you have a little bit of fun with at the cabaret or the bar... I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo not opening up this subject.. I am soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo not going to open this up.. hahahahhahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahh

Cheating is cheating. If a woman is willing to accept this type of behaviour it says a LOT about their own self esteem.

doodle it goes both ways there is a man here at work just got divorced after 7 years of knowing his wife was seeing someone else on the side, why? i wouldnt know, sometimes waiting till the kids are older, only they know those answers. These are not young people either prob has college age or older children

And some of the girls back home will wait yearsssssssssss for their immigrant man to marry, come over and then walk out on the American wife to start a business in Florida (hope you made it ok) then he will send for her to join him here. hmmmpff.. emotional cheating is as bad as physical. (in my 'been there done that' opinion)

Jackie

You are so right Jackie. My husband was just telling me about one of the guys he met through a friend here who did that recently. We were talking about the guy being a newlywed and then later my husband told me he was "newlywed" to his second wife after walking out on his American one. I do not think his new Egyptian wife is over 20 and he is 35. He "claims" he gave the American wife the option of a loose "second wife" arrangement and she said no and not to mention the fact that it is illegal here!

Good for her!

There's a world of difference between dealing with it AFTER you are married and have kids together and being willing to put up with it before you're settled in together. That's what I was getting at. Trust me I lived with it, though not for long, in my own marriage. In my case the kids were 1 and 2 and I really felt like I had no options since my mom wouldn't let me come home at all. Luckily for me he left me so I didn't have to be the one to make the decision. Had he been doing this before we had kids you bet your bippy I would have thrown the bum out!



What a $%@!! piece of trash to live a lie for so many years. I can't even describe how low that is because words can't express my disgust!

Well, it is possible for two people of the opposite sex to have a friendly relationship without it being an affair. With the influence of Islam and the hyper separation of the sexes in MENA some people think that any contact or communication between a man and a woman is tantamount to cheating. Not so, IMHO. It all depends on the intent of the parties involved. If your relationship is strong, then you can trust your spouse not to do the wrong thing. If s/he does the wrong thing, there were probably signs well before of this tendency.

But yeah, cheating is definitely way bad. That's how my first marriage (starter marriage) ended. I know for myself I could never forgive someone for cheating on me, YMMV.

It is unbelievable that still in 21 st century people allow this behavior is completly wrong.Even if they consider it religious they are not going to be living in a society that understand that kind of actions .

ORIGINALLY POSTED BY A-jeanne, October 12 on Olivianwaleed thread.

"I don't think that people should take care of their dirty laundry on the VJ website. This is a place where we can come together in support of getting our loved ones here, not a counseling service for people breaking apart and keeping people together that shouldn't be together.

You can't expect to bring someone into the US and have them automatically change - it won't happen. There are so many culture differences - what's ok in their country may not be ok here.

That's just my peace. We need to be lifted up - not brought down"

------------------------------------------

It was this post that made me bring up the subject. The comment that somehow cheating is "normal" for "their culture."

While I agree with the sentiment that people can't be expected to change "their culture," I don't think affairs or quasi-affairs are an issue of "culture."

I'm sorry but cheating is not part of their culture - many are brought up to think that they can't control themselves, and maybe they feel entitled to "sow their seeds" which IMO is ridiculous. However the multiple wife notion is bogus, it doesn't work and it's hurtful to kids (trust me my husband is still dealing with the issues of this arrangement). From day one I said there are a lot of things I can forgive but this is not one of them. And I will accept cheating in no way shape or form. I love my husband from the first time I saw him walking on the street and truly believe he is the other half of my heart, but cheating in physical or emotional form I would never ever be able to handle. It would hurt too much and I wouldn't be able to face him again. Don't make excuses for them.

True Jackie!

I have also seen WIVES in other countries wait in their home country for years while their husband goes to America, sends half of his money home to her, and he shacks up with or marries an American girl. He travels home often enough to keep her hanging on to the marriage and brings gifts and money when he returns. Maybe he sticks around long enough to get her pregnant again and then he's off to the states. All the while, his American other half thinks he's visiting his sick mom or his nieces & nephews.

There is fraud, deception, and overall nauseating behavior happening EVERY DAY in multiple countries.

I think even though everyone says there is no excuse for cheating, it gets tolerated at an astounding rate..... there is no follow through.

Jackie I have followed your story carefully. How likely do you think it was that he was in communication with her all along? Frankly if you find this out, I would file some kind of complaint somewhere so that he cannot bring her over here. There is some kind of law that prevents a greencard holder from sponsoring a spouse if they commited fraud. I am so sad for you. You are really pretty and helpful and kind.. I want you to keep moving in your path and your journey and keep travelling and being adventurous... Its so hard when someone betrays you to this level. I am really sorry. It happened to me as well and I was devastated... But this is your path and I am thinking that there are some amazing things coming for you

With respect, it would be very hard to show that a marriage that lasted five years was fraudulent all along without concrete proof.

And there is no law that says 'if you received your green card by fraud, you can't sponsor a spouse.' If your green card was obtained fraudulently, you lose your green card. But the trouble is with proving that, and I think Jackie is best served by not troubling herself overly with his immigration status.

Jackie we talked earlier in PM about how you are "addressing matters" and I think you are handling this brilliantly. You have my respect and my highest regards.

I guess so. I saw something in the paper work when I was filling stuff out that said something about if you obtained a greencard from marriage to a spouse or something.. Oh well.. I guess you have a point.. I just hope Jackie got something out of being with him....I am sad

in my opinion cheating (of any form) shows how coward a man is. he goes and starts something just coz he is not happy enuff in what he has and he is not man enuff to face his wife and tell her whats wrong with the marraige or if he has other needs she doesnt give and just prefers to find it somewhere else. Some men have it as a sickness too.... his marraige wd be amazing and all is going good and he wd still have the guts to go off with another woman! audhubillah.

For those women who choose to forgive their men and start over.. its good and i see that they have good hearts but the wife can never deny that the incident will haunt her back and forth in the relationship and i dont think complete peace of mind will ever happen to her:(


bottom line we all agree there is no excuse for cheating what-so-ever and i totally believe a 100% that ONCE A CHEATER ALWAYS A CHEATER.

i've always said that about bill clinton