Actually it was the whole catholic priest/pedophile thing...

ok people - we live in a democracy (tyranny of the majority) so I guess you win.


I hope the cameras are never pointing at YOU

You've used a lot of words to make that simple point.

I gather from this post that it MUST be my post (or partially mine) that you are having a problem with. Because I had the audacity to say that something wasn't quite right about how she acted you seem to have taken issue with it.

Well, I stand by my comment and do not feel the need to apologise for it. Call it women's intuition, a mother's intuition...whatever. It's what I feel when I see footage of her and I can't change that. It's an opinion, MY opinion, that's all.

Not worth getting your knickers in a twist for.

If you want to talk legal defintions I can do that - I was selected for the Bramshill fast track academy in 1969 and came 4th in the UK Police Inspector's exams probably before you were born so I would love to indulge you in a debate on homicide case law etc - but I won't.. It's your loss as you might have learned something without having to google it...

Devillette still can't see the relevance of all that to a discussion on a possible murder - perhaps a postman might bring more to the discussion ? or a Devilette whatever she does ?

She selects my post line by line and puts her 'judgment' on each line in red then finishes by calling me judgemental -irony indeed

If I have riled someone by including a catholic priest in the wild scenario then you would have to have a totally closed mind to say that doesn't happen ! It's been all over the media for years and the church is paying huge millions in compensation.

That is just pure denial.

tut tut, that's a one liner, Alan

I agree - but I was just trying to gently say lets have open minds and the roof came tumbling in !

I think people wanted a different kind of discussion - more whimsical

Mine was a mixture of comedy (attempted) with some deadly serious points and it was not on the menu for this post.

I never learn that VJ is not meant to be the Oxford Union debating society and 'heavy' views or surreal humour (attempted) are not wanted or appreciated or always understood ...

I do appreciate the lack of epithets though - you will know that most sites would have given me a whole load of horrible name calling and in the vj forums I frequent , that NEVER happens - so its a good crowd really and i do appreciate that...

ok well it seems to have become - should alan be excommunicated for mentioning naughty priests ? which is hijacking the thread - so I had better sit back on this one...

Focking hell, if that's 'gentle' I'd hate to see what else ya got.

If you had something to add, you could have done without the mad finger pointing sermonizing, much like that hobo on Oxford Street standing on his little wooden crate.

And I agree with Dev..the priest pisstakey bit was really in poor taste.

Very occassionally I prefer the rapier to the bludgeon and sometimes the stuffed pillow. Another one liner - chuckle

I have nothing against Catholics at all. I have been part of a Catholic family - but I didn't know it was beyond the pale to mention paedophile priests in a discussion on possible paedophilia ?
Is it a taboo for Catholics to talk about it ? If so I can understand why it went on so long....
Really I don't want to make an issue about it and if it's so hurtful for Catholics to think about this then I would like to drop it now.
I want to drop it anyway as I don't want to broaden it in a thread where it isnt central to the plot. If you say it never happened or you dont want to hear it then ok.

Remember Mrs McCann is a Catholic and I am fighting for her rights on here - albeit unsuccesfully- and even though she might be guilty.

As I say - you guys win - force of numbers - plenty to say about me but little to say about the subject

I'm not taking offense for Catholics...it just came off quite high in 'ick' Joking about pedophilia is always in poor taste.

We were doing fine discussing the subject before your involvement. We're discussing you right now because you have pushed your way center stage atm.

You brought yourself into to this discussion, not us.

You dont know when I was born and what I do, so it is you who are making assumptions now.

I don't think you need to be too acquainted with English law to recognise that someone is innocent in the eyes of the law, until proven guilty. As I think that this was the genuine point that you were trying to underline, I don't think that anyone involved in the discussion would disagree legally or morally.

That's fair enough...

Nope I don't know anything about you - - you might be the top criminal barrister in the Uk for all I know and outgun me all ways up !

Not many people older than me now so I WAS making an assumption - if you are as old as me - it's past our bedtime !

I do have an overdeveloped sense of justice which extends to more than myself - perhaps I will use it on behalf of others on a voluntary basis when/if I get to Florida...

Hey I could be a civil rights observer at guantanamo bay ! Nope skip that ... think I will start with the cats protection league and work up from there....

You know people say 'opinionated' and 'arrogant' and 'preaching' as though they are bad things ....

When you think about it, the opposite of those three isnt good either - no personal opinions/low self esteem/reticent and disengaged

I admire Tony Wedgewood Benn (dont always agree with him) and I reckon you could call him 'opinionated' and 'arrogant' and 'preaching' ...

If I had 30% of his intellect I would be most chuffed.

I get my bus pass in 6 weeks so its too late to reform or go for the middle ground - I will have to make the best of my personality disability for which I don't get a parking badge ! I would still rather be me than some of these ladies so hah to them !

alan

"Clement Attlee had as much charisma as a mouse. He was absolutely monosyllabic. People say conversation is supposed to be like a game of tennis, but with Attlee it was like tossing biscuits to a dog."

You like dogs, don't you Alan?

ah, such maturity.

Madeleine McCann 'died from overdose'
By Gary Cleland
Last Updated: 9:17am BST 14/09/2007

Madeleine McCann died from an overdose of sleeping tablets, reports in a French newspaper claimed yesterday.

Battut - an experienced journalist who has worked on a number of major inquiries - claims police believe that evidence found in the McCanns' hire car will "prove that the little girl had ingested medicines, without doubt sleeping pills, in large quantities".

A source at the newspaper claimed: "We are not simply repeating rumours carried in other papers. This is not a theory, but a fact contained in hard evidence in the hands of the Portuguese authorities.
................


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml...4/nmaddy214.xml

'Police are said to want to examine the vehicle again. It is currently being kept in a safe place by the family who are considering having their own tests carried out on it as they strive to prove their innocence.'


Looks like the Police will have to be patient until the suspect's family say they can look at the car again ....


See what I mean ?

Surely if they wish to examine the car again they can get a warrant?

Sleeping pills.......hrmmm..........

If the kids were truly zonked out for the night, that would theoretically mean there'd be no hooha with them waking up and finding the parents not home....

In the article I quoted it did say that the other two children did not wake up after the parents returned home and found Madeline missing. This includes the resulting hub bub created by the police arriving. It was mentioned that they may have been given sleeping tablets. Now, some speculation and theory, (saywhat, I suggest you leave the room ). Perhaps the parents wanted to leave the kids behind but didn't want them to wake up, perhaps Madeline overdosed or had an extreme reaction.

Both parents are doctors so they would have access to prescriptions and sleeping tablets, so that isn't a problem.

It's a theory of course, no proof to back it up either, but a credible theory, nonetheless, imo.

Alan, you continue to crack me up!!

Just how soon do you get here anyway?

Don't ask - just don't ask.... could be never at this rate....

and all the people who have NVC completed dates after mine think they are flying mid october.... oh dear the suffering humanity.

Carolyn found the letter from London Embassy dated last January which said 'We will not accept your petition as we regard you as TEMPORARY in the UK and your residence continues to be the U.S. and so you should file in Nebraska.

Then the NVC who say - your domicile is in the UK and you cannot be a sponsor unless you are domiciled in the U.S.

Can you wonder I went crazy some time ago ?

hee hee har har - to the funny farm, the happy home, where things are beautiful all the time and I'll be happy to see those nice young men in their clean white coats !!!!

I dont know how they check your sanity at the medical but I reckon their madometer will be off the scale !

ps this morning, the childs body is in the sea - with a broken neck or a drug overdose (depending on which paper you read) or perhaps it was a walk-in suicide ? oops bad taste to reveal Sunday's story on a Saturday


alan

The News of The World is planning a lawsuit as I type!

they are never the sue- ers they are the sue-ees or if they are the sue-ers then its spelled 'sewers' ....

Perhaps she ate a hamster like Freddy Starre and choked...I don't know what they will come up with next...

I know one thing - I won't be surprised

last week the Police were reported to have accused the mother of breaking her neck...now it's administered or self administered (through parent's negligence) - sleeping pills..

next week ? they might get back to the other suspect - who is still a suspect.

How can they accuse one person of breaking her kid's neck while maintaining the status of the little chubby guy as a suspect ?

Bet he is cheesed off

I used to give mine a pat on the head and an aspirin each - worked a treat but they grew up with flat heads and stomach ulcers.

But I never let them hang around in the park or churches or other high risk environments - I was a good parent.

It seems that 33% of priests in the US are homosexual and 4 out of 5 attacks are on little boys so that would not present a significant risk to a little girl...and any way you know that it was a story which I declared to be a wild fiction to try and open up the possibility of other scenarios. As it happens, another scenario HAS now emerged but I won't hold my breath for people to say I was right and other scenarios are possible - and minds should not be made up on this case.

haha !

alan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality...olic_priesthood

Once again, not relevant. 33% is not what your wiki link quotes. It says 1-15%.

Drop it already.

Devilette your powers of reading and comprehension are seriously flawed - that stat you just quoted is the 'general population'

as far as priests are concerned it says this:

It has been estimated that at least 33 per cent of all priests in the RC Church in the United States are homosexual." [2]


Now pop back and have a really good look and then tell me I was right - come on you know you have to...

and check on this too:

More than four out of five of the priests' sex-abuse cases involved male victims.

Now if you are going to start catching biscuits properly then you have to keep your eye on them..

Here is me trying to open your eyes and you can't be bothered to read and comprehend the information that I am finding for you...

I am glad I had a wiki link to quote or you would say I was making it up - and even though I do find the link, you deny what it says even though it's there for everyone to see - you wouldn't make a good murderer with an alibi Devil - they would have you behind bars in 10 minutes

Or is it something else that's making you blind - 'non so blind as those who will not see' - nobody was prepared to listen to all those little boys - they wanted to change the subject - like you.


alan

I certainly hope this isn't the paradigm of British policing. Say, it could have been a one-legged ballet dancer wearing a boa that killed the girl instead of the German basement dweller or the pedophile priest.

I am not surprised that the Portuguese police are questioning the parents for two reasons. Statistically, most murders aren't committed by strangers, and that goes double for children. Family is always the first stop.

Second, Portugal probably has an interest in calming hysterical tourists. If you arrest the parents, potential tourists think 'Oh, it's not the area that's dangerous, just the girl's parents.'

I totally agree with your last point and that crossed my mind too - it would suit the Portuguese to 'export' the problem.

One legged ballet dancer wearing a boa is tame compared to some of the stuff that happens in real life...


EEEEE I could tell some stories !

What about all the rippers victims - their families were not involved - bet that messed up the statistic for those years eh ?

Geoffrey Dahmer, Doctor Shipman ? If it's you then the statistic is 100%
alan

My mistake. Your source is not exactly reliable - one study on a general editing site?





So changing the subject makes me blind to pedophiles? And wouldn't make me a good murderer?

Stop judging me.

And stop bringing priests into this, what is your agenda with them anyhow? We get it, you were a detective, for 6 years, 30 years ago, but that doesn't make you any more 'in the know' about this murder.

Devilette - What murder ?

You keep falling for the same mistake !

You are talking against yourself - my whole point was to say nobody knows and we should not judge - and now you tell me that I am not 'in the know'.. then you say say there has been a murder like you are in the know...

half the time you say nobody knows and then you make out like you do...

Of course I am not in the know but thats my point and you make it for me..

and I am allowed to judge your powers of 'reading and comprehension' if I supply you with a link and you come back and deny (and misquote) what is clearly on the page...

How come Mrs McCann can be judged for something she might not have done but you cannot be judged for something that you clearly have done.. (you still wont say you got it wrong and I was right)

As far as an agenda against priests is concerned, I think your horrified defence of them indicates that you have an agenda too ? am I right in thinking your defence comes not from an objective assessment but from some religious affiliation that you have not so far declared ?
Possibly not or you would feel guilty at misrepresenting the link.

ps reference the 30 year thing - I am 3 years younger than Debbie Harry and 17 and a half years younger than Clint Eastwood so there - who you say ? and just because I have forgotten more than you will ever know doesn't mean I am out of touch

All this is because you are frantically defensive about priests for some reason - and you tried to misquote my wiki link which ain't too bright because everyone can see it... even I would put my hands up if I had done that...

and you put a one word retort to my post which was 'sick'

If you don't like disharmony on the forum then you should explain your feelings in more than monosyllables so we know what is going on in your mind...

In case you think I am being argumentative - it was you who started tossing emotive epithets about...

Let's see what this weeks wild speculations (not mine) will bring regarding the case ... then you can kick that around with as much certainty as ever. Believing the last thing that was written in the paper and excusing your own credulity for believing the previous thing is not uncommon in this or any other country so you are probably more in the majority than I

alan

I just saw this report online. Gosh, I hope it's her.

Doesn't look good:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7014886.stm

confirmed as NOT her, apparently.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7014886.stm

Alan,
they said the exact same thing to Chelsea (altho was California serv center)

I am only half joking about going crazy- I am naturally a really happy chappy in all situations - annoyingly so for people who are not 'morning persons'. I grin and dance and sing - I am not bipolar either - its constant ! I really am normally happy.

and here I am with it all behind me including the medical last Thursday and only an easy peasy interview to go - and I feel deflated and sad and I cant get happy again.

So much hangs on these things you know. Carolyn could not have made it in the UK and if this had gone wrong we would have had to divorce and she would have had to go back. I think that was too much of a burden - too much of a worry and going on since 9th January.

I have a friend in the US who was similarly torn about and he still flinches and turns away at the sound of the INS. He has been there 12 years and the revulsion for this process is still with him.

Perhaps time will ease the stress and when I am driving through St Petersburg on a sunny Sunday morning in my new Toyota, I will feel back on form again.

For now I think I have a touch of post traumatic stress.

I will try and hang around VJ during the winter and see if I can help some folks out - we certainly need it....

alan

back to the subject -

people should not believe what they read in the papers....


When I see the naiveté that people have, I wish I had been a double glazing salesman - I would have been very rich....

So you buy a little girl for $20 and then walk round in public in the sun with her on your back, grinning away and saying 'look what I bought'

and people kidnapped her to sell in Morocco to a peasant ? For how much ?

or Morrocan peasants holiday in Portugal and bring a kidnapped girl back through the airport ?

They can't even afford a decent donkey half of them...

come on folk show a bit of common sense..

jeez

I did see Elvis in a chip shop once.

in 1917 two little girls in Cottingley, 5 miles from my house, said they had seen fairies dancing in their garden and produced photos..

The whole world believed them

Things don't change much


http://www.cottingleyconnect.org.uk/fairies.htm

I don't have any pictures but I was miffed cause he took the last sausage in batter.

but it is known that fair-skinned, fair-haired kids are a target for particularly north african people who want to "buy" a child of that heritage.

I know when we travelled to North Africa for vacation that was exactly one of the things they warned us about as I have a son with very fair skin and blond hair, so it's not as far-fetched as you may like to believe.

I think Alan was saying that the people in these little villages tend to not have much money so they wouldn't be in the market for a blonde toddler. The people who DO pay money for these children tend to have substantial funds.

Does anyone here remember Ben Needham?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6634075.stm

I have a fair haired son with a nice smile I would like to sell...

He lives in the Canary Islands so not far to send him to Morocco. He is 37 years old and 260 lbs and drinks ganja tea all day and also 2 bottles of wine for breakfast.

His blood pressure is 215/165 so there is no guarantee with this purchase.

This week he is on special offer for 20 dollars and a pickled egg.

I am prepared to take paypal or personal checks but the egg should be mailed direct ...