Hello/Esalaam/Salut

With school just around the corner ... everyone including us getting ready for "Back to School" ... But for us this year will different...actually very different. My daughter will attending school not in the US, but here in Algérie. We weighted all the options here including the local public school, where she would be with familar faces (family of my husband) and also the the King Faud school in Central Alger. But we finally decided that she will be attending an Algérien school, private one with scholarity as the its central focus. Curriculum is taught in French (my daughter knows no French) but of course since we are in Algérie, teaching "Islamic education" teaching the Sha'ria is required. The instructors have said that there are several foreign and melánge (mixed) children in the school so I should not worry, but they would not give me any references.

She has worked with tutors since arrival and interacted with the children here ... but still her skills are lacking. I feel really bad for her, as she never asked for this. Elhamdullah she is young, so excited about attending school and very adaptable.



My thread's topic would begin with that background info ... but go towards asking several questions including:

• If anyone here has taken their children to live in MENA (and esp if they attended the school) to share their experience. I have talked to several foreign women living here. And they have said positive things, but I doubt they would have shared any negatives anyway.
• If any teachers out there, have any comparative opinions or information to share about MENA education to education in the US (or even Europe). And/or the impact of starting education in one place, then relocating ... then locating back to the orginal spot (ie: after our enchallah approval ... returning to the US)
• And if any MENA people (orginally from MENA) would like to express any information wheither it be opinions, resources or really anything in regards to education.
• I am also looking into supplemental education (homeshooling) resources that are availible and inexpensive (possibly free) online, since I cannot just go out and pick up something. If anyone here has links to share....plz do!

Any and all thoughts and replies here are appreciated! Thank you! Choukran bezaf!

Did your daughter want to move to Algeria and go to school there?

I considered moving to Morocco at one point with my son but the decent english language schools I found were pretty expensive and things didnt end up going in that direction anyway.
My main concern would be the language, I dont know how old exactly your daughter is but I think entering a school that is conducted in a language she doesnt know is handicapping her a little. You are probably right to think about at least supplementing her education at home. I wish I had some good websites to point you to but I dont, I know a couple of the MENA ladies are teachers so maybe they will chime in with some ideas

I could never move my kids to Egypt at the age their at now, plus I would never take them away from their dad since he's thankfully so involved with them. I know your situation is different though.

Could you perhaps homeschool her or will you be working? I think if I were in your situation I would totally opt for homeschooling and then make sure she interacts with kids on certain days of the week. I know here that the kids that homeschool all belong to a little group and they go on field trips together, etc. I think at least for the first year that would be a good way to ease her in. Also if this is gonna be a year where you live 1/2 there and 1/2 in the US it would be an optimal situation since her curiculum would stay constant as well as her teacher There's tons of websites out there where you can order books to help you and I'm sure there's a ton of message boards out there for moms and dads helping each other out.

It was our choice. Not hers. But she is not old enough to make choices. But yet she is happy to be here.

But I was not searching for smart ### replies or what people would not do. I was seeking sincere replies, resources and info.

I thought long and hard about this also. My children are in the 5 and 6 grade classes in school, and I had seriously considered moving to Jordan to wait out our immigration. The fact that the English speaking schools are so darned expensive there, and my sons don't speak Arabic, made me decide to come back home. I think the idea of sending her to school AND homeschooling her along with it is a good idea, especially in light of the fact that she may be returning to the schools here mid term or so. I know here in Michigan you can actually purchase school books from the schools directly, or at least you can in the school system my children are in. I wonder if you could find out from someone who's children would go to school here if that is an option? I know your daughter is younger than my children, but what a fantastic opportunity to learn another language!

I think that your daughter will have an amazing educational experience. I have several friends that have grown up living with their families to different countries (parents were diplomats, or on business tranfers) and they are wonderful, well-rounded, open-minded and multi-lingual people.

My college roommate went to kindergarten in Belgium (classes were in Flemish and French), returned to the US for the next eight or nine years, then finished up her last 3 years of high school again in Belgium. She loved it.

A fellow teacher spent almost his entire growing up years in Colombia and Guatemala. His Spanish is impeccable, and he has a great ability to deal with people from all sorts of backgrounds.

Of course you will need some resources...I know how difficult it can be to find English language literature in Morocco, so I imagine that teaching materials are less than readily available in Algeria. I'm a teacher, but I teach in a high school, so I don't think my materials would be so helpful. I do, however, teach MANY ELL students (English language learners), so I have some idea of what you are going through.

Take a deep breath and trust yourself that you will do the best you can to educate your daughter. Remember: skills are skills, no matter the language. Help her to comprehend and decode in English at home, and she will be able to transfer those skills easily to another language at school (of course she will be confused and frustrated at first--expect this!--but she will learn quickly if she knows the skill in her native language, English). If you have convenient internet access, I'm sure you will be able to find all kinds of appropriate lessons online. Let me know if you need to have a contact with a family that has home-schooled here in the US.

Bissalama,
Carolyn

http://www.thehomeschoolmom.com/

Henia, I looked at this site and it had some really helpful hints, IMO. I thought to myself, Hey, this would be good for my sons to do at home! LOL Hope it helps you out some in deciding to homeschool also.

Henia- that was NOT a smart ### reply. My question was sincere and I was just wondering if she wanted to go, that's all. Gosh.

one would think that all this would be something planned for WELL BEFORE moving a child to algeria in the first place. at the very least, bringing as much supplemental home-schooling stuff in the child's predominantly used language with you anyways, since one cannot "just go out and pick up something." it's depressing how much of an afterthought some people's children are to them.

most of the replies here-"yeah go for it, wow, it will be such an awesome experience for her!" (because someone relaying wonderful experiences in belgium, colombia and guatemala are so relevant to algeria) are applicable only if large sums of cash are invested in said education overseas. otherwise, not so great esp. with such gaping language barriers.

My husband worked in an international school in Egyptand taught elementary students from all countries. He said most kids surprisingly adapt very well to changes like your daughter and just to be involved in her schooling as much as possible and she will do fine.

were the children there taught in a language they spoke and understood?

I worked at an American International school in Italy, where curriculum was in English. I worked with a lot of kids whose families were in Italy temporarily, and they would attend the school for a year or two, until the family moved back or moved on. Quite often these kids spoke neither English nor Italian, and I would work with them on their English skills during the time that their classmates were in Italian class or arts/athletics.

To be honest, I'd say that the majority of these students had a pretty rough time. They fell behind quickly in all subject areas. Although they would eventually get to the point where their English skills were decent, by that time, they were behind in the subject material and were constantly playing catch up. This was more apparent in the later grades, i.e. middle school and above. And this was even with special ESL instruction during school time.

Now there were exceptions. There was one Korean student who came to the school in grade 6, and he achieved English fluency with almost no detectable accent within 6 months and was able to proceed with the material at his grade level. I believe this kid was receiving instruction in Korean at home in order to keep up with material so that once his English was up to par, he knew what was going on during class.

I'm pretty sure that kids that went to the school for one or two years had a good amount of catching up to do when they returned to their home countries. Kids that came into the school with no English, but were at the school permanently would be able to catch up and be on par with their classmates after a few years. In other words, I don't think it's likely that putting a child in a school where the instruction is in a foreign language will not have negative effects on his progress.

In order to make the best of the situation, I do think that there must be a great deal of instruction at home in the child's native language. That way she can not fall behind with the material, and focus her school-time efforts on learning the language. Do you know what kind of programs, if any, they have at the school to accommodate non-French speaking students? Are there "French as a second language" classes that they pull students out of their regular classes for?

I wanted to add that you should look into getting a copy of the curriculum in your U.S. school district for the grades which your daughter will be missing. I don't know anything specifically about curriculum in Algeria, but I would imagine that there are significant differences. You will want to make sure that she's keeping up with U.S. requirements, since these will be the expectations of her knowledge when you return to the U.S.

Ideally, you could purchase the texts that her peers back in the U.S. would be using, however that could be quite expensive. There are so many resources on the internet nowadays, and it won't require too much effort to find instructional aides to address the various standards in the U.S. curriculum, even from Algeria.

Sarah: Sorry your comment sounded sarcastic. Sorry sometimes it is happened to understand thing on the Net. I do apologise.

Ta me go hiontach: This has been thought over and planned well. I have brought many materials with me. Including all the books I found at Walmart, Kmart and Borders. But I still feel it is lacking. I am just a worry wort at heart.

Tammy: Thanks Tammy for the link. Checking it now...

Carolyn: We are sure hoping it will be a great experience. She has adjusted very well so far to the new enviroment, people and lifestyle. I know I grew up in a multi-langual family... and it is helped me in my adult life.

Jenn: I appreciate your input since you are a teacher and have taught aboard. resources are very limited here for non-Arabe and French speaking people. My husband does have 2 middle school teachers who are tutoring her. As well a high school aged girl I am paying. My husband works with her in Mathematics as he is a profi in finance. I am the one doing the English (and other lang) part.
There is a Saudi school in the capital called King Faud school which my husband was pushing... since they do deal with the majority of fforeign children in Alger. Teach in English as well as classical Arabe. Buuut we just do not agree with their mentality. Sooo that is out.





Would I be able to find this online per chance? Thank you...

I think so. I did a quick search and was able to find the curriculum framework for all grades in Massachusetts: http://www.doe.mass.edu/frameworks/current.html

A good place to start would be the department of education website in your state.

Thank you for the link. Very helpful.

I moved to France when I was 11 and went to an international school for 2 years. Most of my classes were in French and the rest were about 6 Americans and English kids in History and Enlgish class, taught in English. It was rough I must say but in the end it was a good experience in that we traveled everywhere in Europe and I learned French. My brother on the other hand had a terrible time with school- he was sent home everyday by the teachers. I don't think we learned much during those 2 years in school, but luckily we turned out ok (educationally).

I don't know about Algeria though and their school system, but I do know that my parents chose our school before we moved there and felt that it was the best one for us.

I dont have experience in MENA education and Im not a teacher but here are my two cents.
I think its a great opportunity to be educated in a foreign country, and to learn foreign languages as a child. We have been teaching our almost 5 year old hebrew and he learns spanish in school. We will do the same for our newborn. Even just for me becoming fluent in hebrew due to extended in laws stays etc = its such an opportunity. That said I would think that their might be many things they do not teach in school in algeria that you might want to ensure that she learns, so you could do lots of tutoring with her on weekends etc. There are stores here in the US that sell books, teaching tools etc, so you could see if any of that is available online or have a family member ship materials over?

The other nice thing is if you are muslim or if you want your daughter to be raised muslim she wont be learning conflicting teachings... For example we are sending my son to a private school starting in september and I remember when we went to the open house a couple was asking very pointed questions to make sure that the school didnt teach evolution? seeing as its non-sectatarian I guess they will not be going to that school because it definately teaches evolution.... that sort of thing.

but learning languages and culture (and maybe religion if that is something that you want)- that is an amazing experience for your daughter.

Henia,
How long do you anticipate your daughter will be in school in Algeria? I am not familiar with the typical timelines for DCF...

Also, what state in the US will you be returning to? I know that California has very detailed curriculum outcomes for each grade level on their state Department of Education website. I'm sure other states do too. Have you thought about contacting her school directly to have the standards sent to you via e-mail?

Best wishes,
Carolyn

Henia,

I am also a high school teacher. I am not from your home state, however. I do know that EVERY state has their standards online (because I was researching quite a few of them at one time).

Is your daughter coming back at some point in the school year? If so, you might want to make sure she stays current with whatever the grade level standards are in your state. With No Child Left Behind, I am sure your state probably has some sort of test they administer to determine grade level progress. You would want to make sure she keeps up with those expectations.

You could start out by emailing her school and asking for further guidance.

Twila

I know that a child's brain is like a sponge. They learn faster and absorb more than grown ups. My cousin adopted 2 children from Russia, that did not speak a lick of English. In 3 months those kids conversing with me. I could not believe how fast they learned. Henia I think you daughter will do just fine. Only you know what is best for your family.


ta me go hiontach, I just wanted to say to you, that this has been an ongoing plan for many months. Henia did not just up and move with her daughter as a second thought. Her family is her main priority. My husband and other Algerians I have met are very intelligent and I am sure it is due to the schools they attended in Algeria.

Carolyn: Unfortunately with the new DCF rules, we really have little information to go on about the total timeframe. Unless, last year when people who filed had their visas in hand within a month. Right now, there is a 6 month residency requirement which we are not clear on if we will fulfilled by September 27 (6 months since I registered as a resident here in the US embassy) The reason we are not not clear is because I am still being "investigated" by the local daira (city hall) to gain residency here. Month by month I have to pay to extent our visas which is tiring and expensive. But from what the Alger US embassy replied to me via e-mail the actual Algérian residency is required. Registering is not enough. Sooo... so much for a quick approval like the ones given out last year. Soooo.... to make this really long story short ... We have planned to just stay here for the whole school year.

Unforunately with my husband being ill ... the construction (which is right now in the air but who gives a fk right now), just getting around to check out the various schools and my complications with my pregnancy before ... I just have not had any energy or time to give to immigration.

Also I came from Michigan. But we were thinking about moving (back) to California where I lived before. We are just not sure if we will be able to move there straight away as my domicile is Michigan.

Twila: That is an excellent idea. I think I will e-mail her old school.

Meriem: Children do have amazing brains don't they? Also I have heard from several people that the education in Algérie is lacking ... buuuut all the children I have met (also adults) they very intelligent and overall have well-rounded educated knowledge about just about anything. And there are so much more choices here (for after primary) which is similar to the educational style of Europe. University prepartory, trade and skill schools. Also schools that teach in Arabe, other others teach in French and Arabe ... while other in just French.

Chaishai: My husband and I (and daughter) are all Muslim. So I have no problem with her learning the Sharia and Fiqh in school. I actually do enjoy that ascept of the schools here. She already attends classes at the masjid (Arabe and religion) ... Where my problem lays is ... the reason I am not sending my daughter to the Saudi King Faud school is that 1. There is a very strict dress code for even little girl my daughter's age (full hijeb) I do not agree with this at all. I see no reason for a little pre-pubescent girls to veil. 2. While they teach English, they do not teach French (which is much much useful for my daughter to learn). 3. The doctrine they teach does not Islamically follow my own.
There is another school, the El Hourouf International School of Algiers but my thinking is with this one is ... I could have her stay in the US and get educated for free ... instead of paying a VERY VERY VERY expensive monthly tuition bill for getting for the same low standard education I would have gotten my daughter somewhere in the ghetto in the US. Why be here and have her gain nothing?

I homeschooled my oldest daughter for years. She entered high school with a higher then avg gpa. I was in the united states when I did this.
I used saxon math, and I loved it. They have a web site also
http://saxonhomeschool.harcourtachieve.com...culture%5Een-US

they have other curriculum also. I loved them.



I took my daughters ages 10 and 12 then to Jordan and I was planning to homeschool. It didnt go well both fought me constantly. They were pretty much brats. They admitt this now. They have appologised to me up and down.

I took the crap from people who said what gave you the right to take them into another country ect... I looked at it this way.... They are young, this was an adventure how many people get the chance to do this. You NEVER hear from people ANYTHING bad when they say they were missionaries and shelepped their kids all over the world...why because it is acceptiable in many peoples eyes. You will hear such crap from people, in my case my mom who was two faced about it all. Telling me to go then seeing a lawyer.

Funny thing is... My girls missed very few things when we were there. They missed grass and running around. This summer, I BEGGED them to go outside to get out to swim for godsake. Now my youngest who is now 11 almost 12 told me I wish I was back there and we were a family again. My 13 almost 14 year old said she was sorry for the way she acted. The only thing that seriously is holding anyone of us back is... I have a daughter who is 19, married and with a child. We would miss her so terribly much. We see her almost daily. But it isnt forever...

If My husband is turned down for the dagnabit visa, we will move to whatever country we can so he can support us there, along with sending money to sisters ect...

The reason they did not go to the American School there is... You would have to be almost rich to do it. It cost over 10K. Who has that kind of money per child??? That was insane. As for other schools... we were told that engish is taught there however, it is as a second lanugage kind of thing and it would be pretty much review for them.

Heartland:Thanks for the links. Looks good. Can you tell me about how much (PM if you want) this program is and can I get all the materials online? As shipping anything here is out of the question. We would never get it.
Here too, the British and Saudi schools are very expensive $15,000 yearly. And I do not even agree with their teachings.

To be honest i bought my books off ebay. What you want to look for is ones that have the text book, the teachers manual and the test books. You are given an easy to follow guide with these. I paid anywhere between 10-60.00 for each set. You can order directly only but it is more expensive but the newest edition. There are also homeschool groups where you can buy them also , I will have to look up the info and post later.

I loved Saxon math. The reason is most math they learn and forget about. With Saxon they incorporate with each lesson problems from the previous lessons. Each day they do a basic math sheet to keep it fresh in their minds. The instructions are so easy that I started off teaching my oldest (19 yr old) when she was in 5th grade and by the second half of the school year she was on her own reading and doing the problems on her own. She even wanted to Jump ahead. She was upset when I made her go to highschool and cease homeschooling. My thought was, she needed the normal interactions.

Home is where your family is. It isnt a piece of land, or a house, it is people. You put your mind to it and you can achieve anything!

Wendy

if you want to talk anytime, just send me a message...

yeah, no worries, "a child's brain is like a sponge." is that a quote from socrates? that totally balances out the supremely selfish behaviour of moving across the world so mom can be with the man she found over there. how is yr husband's or other algerians' experiences relevant here? was he or they forced to attend school in a language they neither spoke nor understood?

Kindly please get off my thread before I report you. Your type of comments are not welcome. You do not know me or any of the people who replied to this. For your information, I did not move just "over there so mom could be with her man that she found over there". We have been together for years. There is a whole history there, which is none of your business to judge me on. My husband is the father of my daughter. May the God forgive you for your judgements.

I am getting tired of people coming onto "nice" thread and turning them sour with all this muck.

Please everyone ignore this post and let us get on with the topic at hand.

Henia,

Here is a link that might be helpful: http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/weblinks/expatriates.htm

Thank you Jenn for the link. That seems like exactly what I was looking for. I know I took my daughter to Germany on an assignment years back ... but she was not school-aged then...

Hello.

I have been reading your thread and just wanted to give you my experience in MENA.

I went to an international school in Saudi Arabia for K-12. The language of instruction was English but we were also given intensive Arabic courses. I know that my parents looked for a LONG time before putting my sisters and I in the school. Personally, I loved it. The teachers were great and luckily for us the curriculum followed the US curriculum.

Even so, my parents did supplement my education with some home schooling (my dad is a professor and my mom is an accountant turned high school math teacher). It wasn't something that happened every night but they basically just built a little bit onto what we learned in class. I guess my parents wanted us to be as prepared as possible in case we ever moved back here and for when we went to college.

In terms of what you can do to make sure your daughter is up to par on the US requirements for when you get back, I think others who are more knowledgeable in that area have responded.

I just wanted to share my experience and what it was like for me

Good luck!

Zee

Thank you it was very much appreciated!

See the REAL How-To Homeschool Guide available in a not-Christian (General) edition. http://www.easyhomeschooling.com

Hello Z,

How did you like growing up there in Saudi? What was it like? Was the school expenive? It is one of the places my DH has been offered a job and we were thinking of moving. I have read Negitive as well as Positive things about it all. I just want to make an informed decision when and if it becomes time.


Wendy

when my friend lived in nigeria her kids went to lebonese schools. they did really well but still had to be tutored in arabic. even tho they spoke the language they still needed to learn the formal arabic.

in a few years we will be facing the same dilema with my step daughter when my husband gets custody of her. she is in a school now that teaches a little english but im not sure if they are teaching her how to read english also or just speak it. the schools that teach everything are so costly. im sure she will have a hard time at first but kids usually catch on quickly.

hi though i didnt go to school here in KSA..obviously....i have looked at the prices when i was looking for work......for the british and american schools here in Riyadh they run roughly 35-40,000 Riyals, per student per year....upwards of 55-60,000 riyals per year for 9-12 high school............good luck in making your decision. My husband's neices were educated one in the british and one in the american but that was many years ago when they were in elem to 9th because they didnt have high school here for foriegners about 8yrs ago...however they both have now graduated college with bachalor degrees.

I had fun growing up in Saudi and I think part of it was because of the school I went to. It was an international school and at the time, Saudis were not allowed into the school (a lot of that has changed now and believe me, it makes a difference. I can share stories if people want) and so I grew up with kids from close to 30 different countries. One thing is that a lot of the schools (at least in Saudi) are going to follow the British curriculum because a lot of universities in MENA, esp in Egypt, require the International General Certificate of Secondary Education (IGCSE) exam which is offered through the British Council. It is basically like a university entrance exam and because it is so big in MENA schools in Saudi use this to sell the schools. The good thing about the IGCSE's is that it basically covers the equivalent of the first year or so of college in the US.

Positives: I got to learn a third language and culture. IMO I think the education I recieved was a lot better than the American education I could have received. I have great bargaining skills. I can deal with the heat better than most.

Negatives: Being a girl there were all kinds of negatives because you can't really do anything there without permission and without your dad/brother/uncle around which made for a lot of boring, long days. Just going to the mall or over to a friend's place is a big ordeal (God bless my dad for dealing with 3 teenage girls in Saudi).

As for the schools a lot has changed since I left. More of the private schools are coed (there is only one private girl's school in Jeddah that I know of). There are a lot more schools that are cropping up to accomodate the growing numbers of expat kids there. The school I went to was around 18-20,000 Saudi riyals a year and that included books and uniforms and stuff. I'm not sure what the prices are now but if you wanted to know more I could ask my mom (she still teaches there).

Henia...

Are you planning on keeping your daughter in school there for an entire school year or more?

My sons spent an entire school year in Yemen in a regular Yemeni elementary school. There were no English instructions but they did have a bilingual tutor to work with. When my sons returned to school here in the US they fell right in with the next grade. They had no problems adjusting back into public school here. My ex and I planned this for over a year and my sons were included in the decision making. They had previously visited Yemen and enjoyed it. Of course they had their moments of homesickness but in the end I believe this experience was very beneficial to them. They are now bilingual (can read, speak and write Arabic). Plus they had the added benefit of knowing their father's family and experiencing his culture first hand.

There really is no reason to lie.

Henia, we know that Ahmed is NOT the father of your child. If that is the way you are treating the situation then I feel really bad for your daughter! That could cause some serious problems in the future I think.

There will always be moral judements in threads like these, maybe a similar reaction if you had left your child behind as well (dayumed if you do, dayumed if you don't).

That said - the question asked was others' experience with schools abroad (MENA specific), language adjustment issues, etc. It would be great to focus on the questions asked. Thanks


edited for clarity

QUOTE(Henia @ Aug 26 2007, 01:30 PM) My husband is the father of my daughter.


QUOTE(Peezey There really is no reason to lie. QUOTE

Do you guys get off on this type of behavior?

What serious problems could this cause for her child in the future; enlighten me!

What type of behavior is that? Henia lies all over this board, it gets tiring.

Maybe you should get a life if you are that concerned with what another person on this board does This board is not real life, it is just that a BOARD! Food for thought

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you. I wonder why you are so quick to defend Henia and disagree with Peezey no matter what.

Perhaps the statement that was made that he IS the father of my daughter was made not as literal but as spiritual. My children's father is nonexistent. My husband is their father in most respects but one... I wish he would have been there to actually father them, however.... he was not.

This thread was started about education, don't lose sight of that fact. If you don't like what is said, don't bother to look at the thread that was started by the person that irritates you. Or simply ignore it all...




As for Z,
Yes I would love to hear more of your experiences and such .... My husband has been courted many times by different companies Thur out Saudi however I know nothing of what anything costs, or what it is really like. I went to the library and rented a documentary on the Saudi family... that is all they had there. Sad.... I have looked on line and there are American communities that have their own "enclosures".

I am surprised that the schools are co ed. In Jordan the high schools are NOT. I thought Jordan to be more liberal.
Is 20,000 riyals allot for school? What does an avg Civil Engineer make? I know nothing of what anything costs!!!


As for the schools a lot has changed since I left. More of the private schools are coed (there is only one private girl's school in Jeddah that I know of). There are a lot more schools that are cropping up to accommodate the growing numbers of expat kids there. The school I went to was around 18-20,000 Saudi riyals a year and that included books and uniforms and stuff. I'm not sure what the prices are now but if you wanted to know more I could ask my mom (she still teaches there

I was not defending Henia. I do not know her and could care less about her pesonal life. I get on the board to get interesting thoughts, ideas, news, and info. I do not get onthe board to see you mess up a lot of threads. Grow up!

I rarely disagree with Peezey anymore these days. I was disagreeing with the behavior that you both consistently display on this forum. Didn't you call doodlebug doodledum several days ago. Well dum dum, you never contribute anything intelligent to this board. You only belittle people and have snide remarks to everyone. Didn't you tell somone that I hope these people are not your parents, if so I feel sorry for you. Nice things to say You and sarah keep up the good work. At least the other sarah adds intelligent conversation.

You are so quick to judge everyone on this board. Like the comment about the flat screen tv the other day. You are perfect. Physically get in shape and then mentally get your mind right. You judge everyone else but add nothing about your life what-so-ever except when you first joined.

How was it dating a teenager when you were 20? How hard was it for your fiance to come here and work after never having a job in Maroc? You are funny to me. Dum dum's posse to the rescue. Let me add this to everyone that will come to her defense, get a life as well. Maybe behavior like hers, posse members should tell her is wrong and not condone it.

I will start a dum dum thread about all the things recently she has said to people that were not nice.

OOOOhhh, I could be banned for a couple of days. Not dum dum though after I report her 20xs a week. I also do not care. I am busy with life

wow, i had no idea a dna test could be done over the internet........

More disgusting insults by Julie. What's funny is the hypocritical b.s. that she spews forth. Be nice or leave is her avatar, yet look at the filth she posts.

The only think more scandalous than the women here 20+ years older than the teenagers they are dating is your mouth. Do you even read what you post before you do so? Your "insults" don't even make sense. If only everyone here had just a 2 year age difference.