Just wondering if anyone else did a prenuptial agreement???

I found a good lawyer in Bangkok that knew a Thai lawyer who represented Lek.
The forms were duplicated in Thai, we met our attorneys in seperate areas, and had to sign our names 236 times!

For me, I just wanted the extra assurance that she couldn't be marrying me for ulterior motives ...(my stuff! ).

Do you have a lot to begin with? If not, a pre-nup makes absolutely no sense. A pre-nup only protects the assets you have accumulated prior to marriage. For me, I wouldn't do one. I'm not a millionaire so it's not like I would be needing to protect much...besides... I'm going in to this with complete trust in my fiancee and I think the idea of a pre-nup would hurt that feeling.

It's a personal choice, and if you feel that you need this for your own piece of mind and she is ok with it and understands completely what she is signing, then that is all that matters.

I have a lot of equity in a home in a kind of expensive location. Also I have an annuity and pensions to protect. Other stuff is just stuff, plasma tv's, etc.
I want to prevent a huge lawyer bill from a potential battle as well.
And no, I do not trust her 100%. (just in case anyone is curoius!)

I had a prenupt with my ex and there were no problems as a result. We are best friends today.

Whether or not you do a prenup is aside from my comment...obviously there are many angles and differing opins.

But the above statement? Wow. I'd never marry someone whom I didn't trust 100%. Your statement made me sad.

Yep, pretty sad, and totally unecessary. Stupid really. This "sweet" lady crushed this world-weary guy. Shocked me, my buddy, and his Thai wife -her best friend.

Thais lie, and money is a big societal pressure for Thai daughters. I knew it before, but thought a husband and wife relationship would transcend the urge to deceive (and get money for mom). She accepts that it aint gona happen here, and she just wants to be with me. I think I'll keep it that way.

Not trying to talk you out of anything, but if you don't trust her, perhaps marriage may not be the best path to travel down at this time?

Thanks Jamie76, I do know what you're talking about. And I'm really not the victim type. And I'm not trying to be poly ana here... But this is what I'm trying to be about these days, however failingly:

God, make me a channel of thy peace;
that where there is hatred, I may bring love;
that where there is wrong, I may bring the spirit of forgiveness;
that where there is discord, I may bring harmony;
that where there is error, I may bring truth;
that where there is doubt, I may bring faith;
that where there is despair, I may bring hope;
that where there are shadows, I may bring light;
that where there is sadness, I may bring joy.
God, grant that I may seek rather to comfort than to be comforted;
to understand, than to be understood;
to love, than to be loved.
For it is by self-forgetting that one finds.
It is by forgiving that one is forgiven.
It is by dying that one awakens to eternal life.

Are you a 'channel of God's peace' when you say things like "Thais lie'

?

How would your wife feel about that if she heard you say it?

Do you understand Thais? They lie to save face, to avoid conflict, and to take the easier path. It's different from western mores, but a fact. I just didn't know it would root itself in a husband-wife relationship so deeply.

Read the book "Thailand Fever" and you will understand - I wish I had read it earlier. I read others, "Thailand, Culture Shock" etc. that deal more with general society and work, not primary relationships.

Are you marrying a Thai LisaD?

I hear you Ding....

I absolutely wouldn't marry a SE Asian (esp. VN & Thai) woman without spending a lot of time together prior, know her family very well prior, and experience some challenging relationship situations prior. That's just my opinion after living 4 plus years in VN. It's a relationship culture clash, like the book "Thailand Fever" addresses........

You said you dont trust her 100% and she shocked you....then why do you still married her???

You should explain about this prenuptial agreement to her to understand..Becuase in Thailand dont have like this. Maybe she hasn't understand clear yet. And you should ask her opinion and her feeling.

For me, I never interested want to get my fiancee assets. Even though if he is rich or poor... Because I love him for him. And even if some day we will divorce. I wont get any his assets....

Do you ever thought she will lose everything in Thailand to live in the US with you? Why she will do this.....because she loves you.

Oy.

She fully understands about a prenupt. The fact that she will not get my assets and still wants to be with me is a big reason I decided to forgive her and retry.

She understands about the prenupt. Her Thai friend in the US explained it to her, I explained it to her, and her own attorney (not mine) explained it to her. The prenupt was in Thai and English.

She will keep her land in Thailand, which she failed to disclose to me too. She has nothing to lose and I bet you probably figured that to be the case. She will gain a man who forgives her and still will take care of her mom and the grandkids Mae Yai takes care of. Everyone makes mistakes, her life is just not so clean and pure as she pretended. Funny thing is, I sincerely wouldn't have cared about most of it, and nothing that happened before me. She does love me, I know that. And that's the biggest reason I forgave her.

I take it nobody has done a multi-lingual prenupt?
I live in Washington State and it's almost insanity to NOT have a prenupt if you have assets here!!!

it sounds to me here that you are making generalization, which offends me, as a Thai woman and daughter of my parents.

it is true some people, including some Thais, lie, but talking about one ethnic group like that is inapproriate and insensitive.

your comments of Thai people in your posts below are disturbing, as well.

it is true some thai women attempt to get western boyfriends just to take advantage of them financially, but not all thai women are like that. when your wife lies to you, it doesn't mean all thai women lie.

if only you could have found yourself a good sincere honest wife, Ding. i feel sorry for you.

Of course there are exceptions, that's a given. The book "Thailand Fever" goes along with my experiences and others too. Were you raised in Isaan? What I've said is from friends who lived, worked, and married in Thailand. And from the books too. And my experience too. Not judging or intending to make blanket statements. But you are the first Thai I've talked to who hasn't aknowledged lying as a normal part of interpersonal communication there.

why did you ask if i was raised in Isaan? the question leads me to believe that you may very well have your most experience with Isaan people -- a specific group of people "with certain socioeconomic status."

no, i am not one of Issan people.

do you think it sounds right to say that somebody would lie "as a normal part of interpersonal communication"? you didn't talk about just 'somebody' but Thai as a whole. does it sound right? that is too extreme.

of course, i don't acknowledge that lying is a normal part of interpersonal communication here. if that was true, why would anyone want to have anything to do with Thais? i hate lies and accusation.

if you are aware that there are exceptions, then make your statements to reflect that. you said you didn't intend to make blanket statements but you just did so -- again.

i didn't want to interrupt the flow of your original thread. please try to keep it within the context of you and your wife, not Thais in general.

Nope, I'm not.

But I wonder how you can pledge 'til death us do part' with that kind of thinking towards your wife and her culture. I don't know every single Thai, so I'd never say things like 'all of them lie' etc. I do happen to have several Thai friends who would be very insulted by your comment. And I wouldn't be friends with them if I didn't think highly of them and believe what you're saying to be an incorrect generalization....nope, I wouldn't be friends...let alone marry.

It does make me sad to think that you have married a woman yet you don't seem to respect her and trust her. I wish you good luck and hope your wife proves you wrong.

My wife is Isaan and under working class pressures. You write as a native English speaker. So maybe you are uni educated or raised in the west. That's why I ask. My wife has the classic societal pressures that everyone I know, all my experience, and all that I've read, talks about. Again, Exceptions are a given.

It sounds wrong to say people lie
as a normal part of interpersoanl communication to westerners. But why
do all the Thai people I speak to aknowlege it as a matter of fact.
And westerners who live(d), work(ed) there, and speak/read Thai
-all aknowledge it.
They do so with acceptance and in a spirit of multi-cultural understanding. Not many are stuck in judging this as bad, just different. And to warn against taking it too personally when it pops up in my relationship. Your experience may be different if brought up in high society or uni educated. I understand that. And there are enlightened people in all walks of life, obviously. I'm writing to a specific yet general audience and shorthanding past "any and all possible circumstances". You come close to accusing me of racism, as opposed to cultural understanding that I try to learn and understand. You could not be more wrong. I'm probably THE most non-prejudiced person you will ever come across in this spinning ball of mud.

My wife loves me. But a buddy's wife didn't love him and married him anyway. And they're fine today. So I'm okay, really. Miles ahead of many unsuspecting guys. My eyes are open and I have some wisdom born of pain. I'm just curious if others are taking prudent measures as well. If she wanted me for money the prenupt would have stopped our relationship in its tracks. And saved time in life, heartache, and even money.

I open my life up here a little bit.
Guys PM me asking me things. I'm glad to facilitate discussion. But I am not racist at all. I am not mysoginistic. I accept life as it is and all the peolple in it, just as they are. But I have a right to not be a victim too.

I used to think like you, and that's a good way to think. I am 100% behind that. Then I had a gut feeling something was wrong. And my wife proved me right, actually. So I learned that what I had been told and what I had read applies to a primary relationship too. I forgave, try to be understanding, and learned to have acceptance.

I respect my wife very much and accept her just as she is. I love her unconditionally. And I'm not a victim and don't plan on being one.

As for lying, maybe the Thais I've known for 14 years going there, and farang I know living and working there - have all misinformed me in their attempt to educate me in cross-cultural understanding. Maybe the books are junk too. I'm open to new information. Her friends have told her, "need to tell true for westerners". Implying that westerners need a different approach. Maybe they're wrong too. -- her sisters too. Why would they stipulate that westerners need the truth instead of indirect or untrue statements?

And I didn't pledge ''til death do us part". We married in a Buddhist country. We did a family/Buddhist ceremony upcountry. Western paradigms don't apply. Her family is fairly progressive and I didn't have to pay the customary money to marry her, called sinsot. That was a big thing for me to come to an undrestanding and acceptance of. I am so opposed to that sort of thing... but I now accept it as part of her culture.

Look, please don't get defensive...and I appreciate that you have a vast amt of experience with Thais. That doesn't give you the right, really, to generalize about all Thai women being liars. If you want to believe this that or the other about your wife and her countrywomen, try not to paint them all with such a negative brush of being liars. I'm sure there are many petitioners here who would disagree with your statement.

As for respecting your wife...you really should ask yourself if you TRULY respect her...because don't respect and trust go hand in hand? How can you respect someone you feel you have to protect yourself and your 'assets' from? You mentioned you don't want to be a 'victim'....well in order for you to be a victim, your wife would be the perpetrator. Is that how you view her? So...and I'm really not trying to be argumentative here, but I am very curious....how does the thought process go to decide to marry someone you feel could make you a 'victim' if you don't protect yourself? To marry someone you can't trust? How do you know your wife isn't talking to 3 other men right now....IF she's a liar?

Did your wife prove herself untrustworthy and you're using the 'Thais are liars' as justification for excusing her behavior? Or does the hangup lie with you and your lack of ability to trust her? Or neither?

that is the reason why you should not make a generalization !

i was not raised in the west, only in schools in the US for 8 years during my early 30s.

i have no itention to be argumentative or accusing of you being racist. that term wasn't on my mind at all. but how you said about thai sounded inappropriate and insensitve. my intention was for you to be careful in your statements about thai people. don't make a generalization when your experience with thai people is limited to just a certain segment of them.

i do not wish to continue talking about this matter anymore. i have said what i felt a need to.

Can we jump back to the original thread: has anyone else considered or gone with a pre-nuptial? If so, what was your experience? If not, why did you decide against it?

I'll Generalize!

Point blank, Thai's and Vietnamese people often do not tell truth, especially to foreigners. They "flat out" lie or don't express true intentions in order to avoid confrontation, "save face" from embarrassment, or for personal gain. Majority of relationships between foreigners & local (Thais & VNs) are not successful (another generalization); however, if one learns some the culture & language, knows the wife's family, and then his chances for marital success greatly increase. Thus, I agree with Ding.........

Mind you, Isn't there a 50% divorce rate in America?

ding, as opposed to patrick, should all of these comments are strictly viewed as your personal "opinions"?
or maybe, you are stereotyping the whole ethic group based on your limited experience with one group of people and a book?
Prenuptial agreement is an idea of protecting the unforeseen event that may bring you a lesser favorable result. No doubt! However, as some people mentioned here, why did you marry her in the first place if you don't trust her? Need a wife in a hurry? Talking of forgiving her as if you are her God giving me a chill sir! Somehow I feel you do like to be the one who takes charge of the relationship by holding a "I forgive you" power over this Thai woman. Personally, if everything you said is true, how she lies and unacceptable to your standard, then again: why are you marrying her?

This is a real hot topic!! I personally do not understand how a person can get marry to someone that he does not trust. Of course he say that he loves her but is this the only thing?? Think about that deeper. Why would a man go to the 3rd countries to find a wife?? It is just because modern women are not as easy to control. So the question here is should the woman not be more worried than the man? The woman is giving up her entire life to be with the man she loves and sorry for this expression but it sounds like she is treated like a piece of crap. She does not give up her life to be someones slave!!! Most of the cases I have read about where the "Thai" women are using their husband to get to the US....I have to say that the man is stupid enough to fall for that because if you would take your time to get to know the person better (and not decide to get marry so fast) than you do not have to worry that she is using you!
Of course the man got a reason to worry about this issue because reality is that there are that kind of person out there that uses the man but the man can control the situation!!

No offens to anybody....just my 2 cents!

So you are saying Thailand is a 3rd world country? That is pretty offensive.

But your 2 cents are offensive. Are you implying that everyone in this forum is going to a 3rd world country (already a derogatory word) to find submissive women whom will obey our every command? Whether or not you meant it, your smugness is offensive to us and to the people of South East Asia. My fiancee would be hurt to know that many Americans, like yourself, hold these elitist stereotypes. How does a country's development status translate to the quality of a person? As far as I am concerned, it's not that simple. Perhaps you shouldn't apply your Western thinking to the rest of the world.

Economically, Thailand is still considered a 3rd world country, though developing country is a better term.

Don't lose the topic here is about Ding who wants to get married a Thai who lies and needs his forgiveness to come to America while Ding still maintains his wealth and riches by having a prenuptial agreement with this Thai woman!

Seem to me Ding has a little bit twisted reason and motive to marry. Making her feeling sorry, feeling as if she owes you for your grace and mercy because you have forgiven her for whatever she did to offend you, is NOT a good strong foundation to build your future upon. I do not know and will never do what she has done to disgrace you and to deserve this treatment and the mentality behind it!

To HappyOne,
Third world or first world, people are @$$holes, lie, cheat regardless of their social, demographical, geographical and economical background IF they are @$$HOLE by nature. There are a lot more @$$HOLES in 1st world than anywhere else! But you learn to accept them as a norm for they are everywhere... Ask your S.O. about lies and @$$holes in Germany, I am pretty sure there plenty of those over there too. However, I choose to focus on the goods and drill into it. I find goodness in the bad in people, and fight it out until they absolutely proven to me they are certifiable @$$, then it's their loss not mine to continue the path.
Bottomline is, thirdworld or not, being-an-@$$ is not only reserved for any particular group, people, ethnic background or part of the world. They are everywhere people!

I do not want distinguish between poor country or rich country. It is just upsetting me how Ding is talking about his wife and her fellowmen.
If he got a problem with these people that are "so called" lier and cheaters....then he should not get marry to her!
I am myself asian and get here to the US. And trust me, I got that view all the time when it comes to the question: Where are you from?
My answer will be Germany because I am from Germany but people automatic assume that oriental people have to get marry to get to the US.
As if the US is the only wonderful country!
I just feel sorry for Dings wife that he got such a point of view!

"Oriental People" is also considered a derogatory term. Regardless, it is disturbing that it is the common belief that Asian women marry American men simply to become American. I can't speak for Ding's wife, but I hope that is not the case. Look into yourself and see how you may be spreading this belief. No one should ever feel ashamed of their heritage.

Ok, the consenseous here:

No 3rd world countries, no oriental (I think of wholesale rugs when I hear ORIENTAL.

Read more on Oriental

Did you really sign 236 times? Impressive.

If my fiancee asked me to sign a prenuptial, I would read it and sign. (Not that I don't love her, but paperwork is my thing, so it's my responsibility to do the reading.)
If I asked my fiancee to sign a prenuptial, she would just sign it without reading. (For all paperwork, I try to ask her to read, but she doesn't want to, and she can be rather convincing when she wants to be...)

All that being said, I could never ask my fiancee to sign a prenuptial, not because I am scared about her not trusting me or her not signing it; I just want her to have everything I have; no ifs, ands, or buts. I believe in the "what's mine is yours, and yours is mine" philosophy directly after marriage. Actually, I would give her half my stuff now, but I'm too lazy to do that much paperwork!

What I will be doing after marriage is quickly creating a will so that she is covered just in case something happens to me (probate court is no fun!). Now some people may say that putting her in the will the first day after marriage is too soon; and I say better safe then sorry.

True on the will. I experienced an intestate secession (sp?) and it was no fun. Better to have it all on paper and spelled out -just in case.
As for other's opinions, I think your hearts are good and in the right place. Without full information you are right 100%.

But you are a bit off in this case. Wish I could go into it but don't want to go further. Funny that I got flamed when I thought the lying didn't extend into the marriage but was limited to social and work situations. BTW- I asked my wife about lying and she said 96-97% of Thais lie to save face etc.
Do you think she started lying to me again? Maybe she doesn't know what she's talking about?

She's a very smart woman, I'm going with her on this one.

As for forgiveness... I have never been through this much pain. Forgiveness was very hard and continues. There's no god-like position here. Just very very human, and it hurts. But all people make mistakes, like I have in the past. And it'll get easier in time.

I have been one of the beneficiaries (other than his two sons) for my fiance's life insurance and we have not legally married yet...

We are with you for the philosophy: "Mine is yours and yours is mine."

I'm with you!
Think of it this way, it's too late when you're married. She knows where you sleep at night, she knows where you take a crap, don't be caught with your strouse down. Why should you be worry that she may take your earthly possesion when the more important question I should be asking: We have No trust in our marriage, can this be everlasting, or We will be constantly looking out for each other? I wouldn't get married if that is the precondition!

I agree with chuckandkim in this point. I'm sorry to say that I cannot completely understand what about the topic due to some strange words, but I can guess by the replies that you said about the "property contract" before marriage??

Ummm, don't think that only the Americans are the richest ones, and don't think that only the Americans can make more money than the others in USA.

The contract is only correct when your wife has nothing before you get married, if she had the house, private company, and her own business on her country, what would you do?? I think, at that time, she would set up the contract and ask you to sign the first.

Hien

I think ding is doing the right thing. If you have read his case I think that most people will see that a prenup is the right thing to do. His other personal issues are just that, his personal issues

Well, it's up to each case to say, I also read so many articles on other websites which said about Vietnam tourist and the scam from Vietnam. Sincerely say, I feel ashame for Vietnamese to read that articles and feel sad. So, just do what you think that it can protect you for your happiness.

Hien

Ding, what happens personally between you and Lek is your own business, and as you probably already have found out, this forum was definately not the right place for this question. Sounds like it was already done anyway when you wrote it. So to answer your question, Nid and I did not nor will not do a prenup (really no need for me, my first ex-wife made absolutely sure I had nothing left). That was my decision. If you feel it is the best route for you and Lek, everyone here should respect your decision. BTW, who did the translations, your lawyer or her lawyer?

Thai's lie! American's lie! German's lie! Brit's lie! VN's lie! Lawyer's lie! Every person on this planet lies. That is 100% fact. If you would say "all white anglo-saxon male carbon-based bipeds in Maryland lie" I would have to agree. Good Luck to you and Lek, I am very happy that the two of you were able to reconcile and move ahead.

I hear that 94.7% of statements use statistics that are fictitious.

That all ... I would have guessed it much much higher ....

SO is Indonesia a 3rd world country as well?

ditto that!!

Ay Naku! Way too much political correctness going on in this post..

Oh yes it is,