I've seen a few threads lately where the folks in the thread felt that the OP was a troll (mainly based on when they joined the site, the outrageousness of the thread's content, etc) and said so in the thread. They were then told not to call that person a troll.

When did this rule start?

There have been TONS of threads the entire time I've been at VJ where people have been called trolls - often times very correctly so. I can see where it would be out of hand if you called EVERYone a troll - but what's the harm in it anyway? Either they are or they aren't. If they aren't and they come back to their thread, all they can really say is 'I'm not a troll'. Aside from the fact that a true troll may well claim not to be one anyway.

Is calling someone a troll now a violation of TOS or something? What have I missed?

It always should have been. Enforcement, as you know, is spotty.

Make comments in a Post either direct or implied toward another member that are purposely designed to upset, antagonize, make fun of, belittle, or otherwise instigate an argument that takes away from the personal enjoyment of the Service by other users.

From what I've noticed- the real trolls tend to ignore the fact people are calling them trolls. They never try to defend themselves.

I read one thread recently where people were calling someone a troll, and I did say something about it, and became very unpopular in that thread. But I didn't care.

I think in some cases ppl pull out the term troll for someone when they think their question is stupid or doesn't make sense. IMO a troll is someone unknown who purposely posts an inflammatory topic in order to rile people up. In the thread I read, it was only speculation and there was no proof at all that this person was a troll. They just didn't know their facts. And the question they asked had been asked before.

I think people use the word troll too loosely. And just because there are lots of instances where ppl have called someone a troll, doesn't mean it's good practice.

I've just read the thread from last night/this morning where the OP is getting all kinds of snippy comments about being a troll, and as far as I can see, it's pretty damned obvious that he isn't one. It's also incredibly easy to work out his 'real' identity from the info he's given in the thread - so if he's a troll, he's a troll posing as an existing poster. Yeah, right. Calling out very, very obvious trolls (you know the ones...) is one thing, but starting on someone, giving them the third degree and calling them a troll just because they only just registered and their post is a little 'unusual' is completely out of order, IMO. Why not just ignore them if you're not entirely convinced they're legit?

I've also seen many occasions where the person did come back and say "I'm not a troll" and still were not believed and still were called a troll.

TROLL!!!!

I understand everything that's already been said here. But obviously these are judgment calls - one person's troll is another person's non troll (if you get my meaning).

While I agree that pulling out the troll moniker EVERYtime we turn around is ridiculous - and I'm sure there are some members who overuse the term - does that mean we can NEVER call one out? I don't toss that term around. I will look back at a person's posts or threads and try to use my best judgment as to whether or not someone is a troll before I say so on a thread.

So assuming I've done the research and feel pretty confident about it, am I then going to get slapped down in the thread for having said so?

Are we supposed to do like everything else on VJ and 'take it to PM' somehow?

I'm just unclear on what's now acceptable, that's all.

I didn't go trawling about to see if I could work out the person's identity and I did give accurate immigration advice. (As opposed to saying 'You can deport her' or 'I can set you up with a woman with kids, they don't leave') I'll admit to being overhasty but my trolldar is usually pretty reliable.

And the reason not to ignore the person is that a lot of people read the stories as if they're true to figure out what to expect with their own timelines and cases.

I see your point - as the thread you mentioned unravelled it became more clear that the circumstances described certainly seemed factual. However, when the discussion started the ‘immigration’ questions were getting blurred with questions about how another man might be involved due to various deductions in the bedroom, etc. If the opening post had stuck to the facts relating to the immigration issues I don’t think the same ‘accusations’ would have been made…… maybe that’s the real point to take away from this…..

I think it is rude to assume that everyone with a story that isn't run of the mill is a troll. Yet it seems to be coming into every one of those threads now; whatever happened to giving someone the benefit of the doubt?

I certainly know that if I had a major problem, and needed to get advice from somewhere, and I posted my heart out and then everyone called me a troll, I'd be upset. I think that we certainly need to be more cautious and careful about who we call out as to being a troll now because innocent posters are being accused and it just isn't very nice, imo.

One or two line posts with no background DO tend to be trolls. Someone who has taken the time to post a story tends to not be. Although there are instances where neither of these criteria apply.

Incidentally, the irony of this subject is incredible. I remember a couple of months or so back I was literally JUMPED on for calling someone a troll, here in Site Discussions. This was someone who had no posts yet came by in a thread to make specific one or two line posts directed at a certain member. I called them out and was hounded by many for accusing such an "innocent poster" of being a troll when there was no proof.

Ironically enough, it was a member who had left VJ and came back to have a dig and, what's even worse, many of the posters who were jumping on me knew about it and found it hilarious.

Makes me feel disgusted, it really does and, I shall add, it REALLY upset me.

If you are referring to the post about the missing fiancee, it sure did start out like a troll but I believe the OP later clarified his reason for posting the way he did. I called him a troll at the beginning so was I the bad guy?

I don't like trolls!

but we can call you a troll as that's part of your name

I don't assume everyone with a non-run of the mill story is a troll. (Most days, that would be half the board.) I made the assumption, wrongly as it turned out, because the person seemed less interested in immigration advice than encouraging speculation as to whether his fiancee had learned interesting sexual techniques since he deflowered her. It struck me as odd that someone would want that rather than begging people to stay on point with immigration advice (as is usual when someone who has been here a while has a problem.)

Trolls sometimes only post one or two lines. Sometimes they create elaborate stories to see how many people they can sucker. It's a big weird internet.

Calling every sob story a 'troll' post is an easy way to discount it!

It's rude imo and wrong.

And if I'd done that, I'd agree.

You can please all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but you can't make a mistake on VJ

You don't agree even if you didn't do that?

I don't see anyone calling out trolls any time someone has a sob story. If I saw it happening, I'd agree it was a problem. It isn't, so it isn't.

I think to answer the original post's question, we are striving for a more understanding, information driven board. It just seems unnecessary to call out troll in many cases. Of course it is not that you can't, its kind of the M.O. of message boards, and we understand that. It is simply a request that should you be involved in an immigration related thread - to take care.

I DO try to give people the benefit of the doubt. As I said, I normally view the poster's profile, etc. before marching out the troll moniker. Other people are more trigger happy with it and seem to do it everytime someone has a slightly 'out there' story - and I agree that those people should be told to knock it off.

I have never seen jasman as one of those people, though, so I was surprised his comment was followed by a 'don't do that' type of post.

I find some irony in it as well. I didn't know who that person was on the day in question, but a quick glance at the profile that night made me feel like it wasn't a troll (granted all I looked at was the date they'd joined and anything else readily available on the front page of the profile). We have a lot of members who have been here a while but have not very many posts - possibly because they are 'readers' more than 'posters'.

I was one who thought calling them a troll was surprising. Hindsight is 20/20, though, and once I found out what you found out, I could then see where you were coming from.

I don't recall 'jumping' on you about it, though. Unless asking a question was jumping on you.

But that incident wasn't the point of my thread today - mainly it was from jasman's post and the subsequent ones. Truly was (and am) confused by that, as I could see myself doing exactly what he had done, and would rather not be told to stop. Figured I'd head it off at the pass if I knew what we were supposed to do/not do.

Check around...many of the 'omG' threads like bad situations (outside of the 'effects' forum) are labeled trollish.

I think it's rude, but also silly....considering numbers don't lie...that thread in question has almost 4k hits from yesterday. This thread will prolly get a lot as well. Cos as much as anyone wants to claim otherwise....it's the car wreck threads that draw the most attention. How anyone can perpetrate a thread like that just by 'you're a troll' is stupid....if one thinks it's truly a troll...DON'T FEED THE TROLLS! otherwise, you're just playing into the hands of a troll if it is a troll...and if it's genuine, you just look like a t!t.

'You' being the general sense...not pointing fingers here....

which thread is this? i need some interesting reading

So when a brand new members posts two sentences about how he sent in the I-129F but never met his fiance, wants to know when he'll be approved, and never returns after that post, it's not ok to point out to the members who are wasting their time giving answers and information that it sure looks like a troll?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=84417

Actually, I did post a "disclaimer" at the end of that very sentence.

Guys ~ it's simply a request to take it easy at times. Like I said previously we understand this might be imbedded in the message board m.o., but it can only help the climate of the board in it's small way.

Ok. I just wanted to make sure (after seeing the thread w/ jazzy).

Apparently you can't ever label someone a troll, only think it.

However, you can label soemone a bitotch.




Ain't that the truth.

I think this sums up the original question.

If you think someone is a troll PM me. If they are a troll then they want attention -- don't give it to them. I have the ability to see if it is possibly another member just using a different account to cause problems and/or a known troll that may have been banned in the past.