Could be you are out of date somewhat... getting a UK bank account even with the UK 'green card' is not easy now - it took us three weeks to find a bank that would accept us and even now she does not have a debit card. We tried my bank originally - I have been there 25 years and keep £350k there - they rejected her for a basic checking account. . They see a debit card as extending credit because some are updated overnight and not real time. The NI number meant a long interview of over 1 hour and very many forms (I was with her) - and a tough interview- in the US I was literally 5 minutes at the local SS office. She has spent 2 weekends doing long tax forms about her arrival. I found the IRS very friendly and easy to deal with. The UK driving test is X times harder than any US tests - I did the US test in 10 minutes and it was pathetically easy. The examiner was staggered at my wonderful parallel parking - I am used to parking in Berlin and Paris and little market towns after which it is nothing to park a car on a really wide quiet road with huge parking gaps. Many people fail the UK test 5 times before they scrape through. I did mine in March 1965 and it was quite tough even then and lasts a LONG time.

Nope I maintain that the US is much easier to find one's feet with all that stuff.

Credit cards are a nightmare in both...health insurance/car insurance - horrible and the same to a newcomer - carolyn paid 850 gbp (1700 US) for her first car insurance (honda civic).
National Health in the UK ? I called my Doc today and said my left ear was bunged - they will not make an appointment until I have spent 2 weeks pouring olive oil into my ear !!! olive oil ? what am I some sort of Sicilian peasant who can't afford ear drops ? what if its infected ? hard luck- third world stuff.

I hated the US stuff when I first arrived and thought they were all bureaucratic idiots - but when I saw what carolyn went through in the UK I realised that I had had it easy...

and UK phone /internet companies ? absolute sharks - count your fingers if you shake hands with em. The US are bad but UK is worse.

anyway thats what I think - I know a LOT of things have changed since 911 so the UK is pretty hostile to newcomers now ... and whereas it was quite gentlemanly - now it's dog eat dog and then some.

Yes I was taken aback at all the problems carolyn hit when she arrived - and in retrospect i had it very easy in wisconsin...

I was there in 2005 and she arrived here October 2006.

ok UK green card is a piece of cake - a matter of minutes - even if you are a crazed terrorist - but thats a different story

Wow Alan - I'm surprised to hear you say a lot of that ! I remember your arrival in the US and how you thought it was all so terrible.

Kind of comforting that the UK is at least the same - or in most instances, worse!

Travel broadens the mind - I am always learning and always ready to change my thoughts on something if it's the result of experience. Seeing an American doing it in reverse brings a whole new perspective.

Of course I am only talking about administrative affairs, so I will still find some aspects of the American culture that are not to my liking (like constant references to bottoms and the product of bottoms, and shoving things in bottoms). Even then, I think that as a 'guest' in America, I should save it for when I am talking with non - Americans in private.

I don't think that I should express a public opinion on anything while I am a 'guest' in America - and I should not fall into the trap of saying 'back home its like this' to everything I observe. I know there are many intelligent and broad minded, thinking people in America so I might let my guard down but only when I trust them.

If people ask, I will be careful not to say anything that could be seen as negative. My wife calls England a 'third world' country, and derides many aspects of it. She asked me if we celebrated 4th July and seemed sorry for us when I said we didn't.

A bit like if I was in the Sudan and I saw a 12 year old girl being mutilated by other women. As a visitor and a 'guest', I have no right to criticize that culture so I would just have to put cotton wool in my ears so I can't hear the screams.

My friend has been in the U.S. with his wife and 2 kids for 12 years - he said it was easy for him because he was a self confessed 'shallow' person and just wanted the sun and cheap cars and cheap gas and cheap speed boat. Perhaps there is a survival clue there.

I don't think there's anything wrong w/ telling Americans if something in our culture is not to your liking. Its how you do it that is important. If my hubby says something like that, he says it more as an observation, not a criticism - because he knows I can't change it & its not my 'fault' (aside from the fact that I am likely to agree with his assessment!). Apart from that, it makes me view things with a completely new set of eyes - which is often a good thing.

I try my best to do the same when talking about things in England that I don't like. Except the NHS. Then its no holds barred for me.

I find the cultural differences very interesting and I am never opposed to hearing them. But as you said, I'm sure not all Americans are that way, so you'll just have to get to know them before going into it.

My hubby has also made a conscious effort not to say 'back home' when referring to England. He considers the US his home now, and is quite happy that it is. So he'll say 'back in England' instead. Mind you, I would not be offended if he DID say 'back home', as that is where he's from after all!!

TracyTN well well - sounds like you and I are on the same track ! The NHS is a mess - my mother was on a trolly in a corridor for 24 hours at age 90 - then they took the castors off and redesignated it 'a bed' thereby allowing tony blair to grin with target achieving success.

Yes I am going to follow your hubby's tactics and never say 'back home'. I am going to really burn my boats this time and by xmas, the U.S.A will be my permanent home.

I once read an article which said that the UK culture was far closer to any European country than the USA despite the language. I have been trying to explore that ever since because I am very interested in whether that is true. My wife claims to be 'very much a liberal' but her view on state supported single mothers etc is half the atlantic to the right of any UK or European politician. Most VJ people are very young people under 30 and they may have travelled, but they need another 30 years of living to put it all in context.

I think my wife will not be able to put her UK experience into context until we go back to the U.S. and she can chew it over.
Last weekend she was touching the cannon ball holes that Oliver Cromwell left in Stirling castle in 1651 and next week we will be revisiting the castle of alan the red, nephew of william the conqueror and built in 1080. On Monday we were in Glencoe and she saw mountain sights you can't see in Colorado even. I think she will remember seeing that depth of history and even miss it - a bit. Perhaps her memories of the UK will grow fonder.

We will see. I won't be allowed to immerse myself in the American culture fully as I wanted to buy a really big gun and kill some burglars and commies and people who won't co-operate with the next war - especially illegal immigrants who have not gone through this immigration process like me - but she won't let me. I also need a big gun to protect myself from the US government if it goes left wing, and the British re-colonisers apparently. I am getting naughty now so I will sign off

Unfortunately, your mom's NHS experience doesn't surprise me one iota. My hubby nearly cut off two of his fingers w/ electric hedge trimmers (don't ask!) and it took them 3 days to even have a look at the damage he had done. That was after us sitting in hospital for two days solid in the height of summer, him with no food or water (in the event they deemed him worthy for surgery). I went on a rant at one point, reminding them that even prisoners of war must be given food and water every now and then...!

Not that the US system is perfect, but you can't fall off the floor.

I actually agree about the UK being more like Europe than the US. A common language doesn't always serve as the tie that binds.

I love the UK - probably for many of the same reasons as your wife. I find the history very intruiging and there is still SO much I have not seen. I would love to live there one day, but financially, I don't see it happening. Kind of sad, really.

Hey - at least you CAN defend yourself against burglers in this country (and not get charged with a crime yourself)...!

Have a good evening.

... I couldn't even read to the end of this post without responding... because, remembering where you've said Chas is from... damn, this wasn't at bloody Wexham Park hospital, was it?!?! If so... that's where a friend of mine had her own finger-severing injury ignored for days a few years ago. The ignoring actually started at the Royal Berks, where she was left sitting there for 24 hours before someone finally had a look and confirmed exactly what the frigging paramedic had said the second he saw it - that she would need to go to Wexham Park (shame she was taken to the Royal Berks regardless, then) because they can deal with that stuff there... she was told she'd be taken there that same evening... later the following day, it turned out they hadn't quite got round to it and she was still holding a bandage round her finger in the Royal Berks (damn it, we could have taken her ourselves!!!)... finally they took her to Slough, then proceeded to ignore her for another day or so... at which point someone finally got a surgeon to have a look, and he promptly hit the roof at the fact that she'd been ignored so long, because by that point all they could do was amputate her finger - he was almost 100% sure that he could have saved it if she'd been sent to the right hospital in the first place and not just left with a dressing on there and a procession of medical students coming up, having a look, turning white, and disappearing never to be seen again. Sigh.

Sorry, rant over, but.... hmm, my own (personal) experiences of the NHS have been (for the most part) great, but that catalogue of total incompetence blew my mind!! Um, if you weren't talking about Wexham Park... ignore me!!

Um, carry on! Sorry, very very off topic, I apologise!!!

I worked for the NHS for 8 years and admit it does have it's faults. However, when I've ever used the NHS I've had nothing but great experiences. Low wait times, good treatment and nice staff.

It really DOES depend on the NHS Trust you end up living near, and some of them are appalling, but there are just as many that are good and giving a good service out there. Don't label the entire NHS under one nasty banner, because it isn't all like that. There are TONS of excellent staff out there who put their hearts and soul into their jobs and it is nice if they could get a bit of appreciation for what they do sometimes.

It gets a bit much when they are constantly had a go at when all they are doing is the best they can.

This is very true - and I myself have had nothing but VERY good experiences with the NHS (I mean, very, very, very)... I think I just saw red at the mention of finger-slicing injuries and the possible involvement of a certain hospital in Slough. That was caused by a total lack of communication (and extreme overworkedness), I think. But my own experiences... damn, I *love* the NHS. They have been nothing but wonderful to me - I'm normally the one going 'don't diss the NHS!'

Mags we are getting a bit off topic and hi-jacking this thread which is a bit naughty of us - I am sure non of us are having a go at the front line staff - just the NHS system which is awful and the administrators who collude in the falsehoods by taking castors off trolleys in corridors so they are reported as beds etc...

Lions led by donkeys as they said in the first war.

You are right about areas - I went into Leeds casualty at 2.30pm and was told I could not be seen until 8.30pm so take a seat - I went outside and drove to Harrogate 15 minutes - good afternoon, come in, sit down , have a coffee, I will go and bring a doctor ! All done and out in 15 minutes !

NHS staff good - administrators and politicians bad

Anyway I am sat here with a deaf painful left ear (10 days now) and my doctor refuses to see me until a week on Friday (31st) at 1.30pm - they want to know I have been pouring olive oil into my ear for 'at least 2 weeks' before they will see me . I know it is infected and not wax blocked.

Reports of how it really is don't get much more real than that - it's real to me right now

Yup, I totally agree.

If someone has had a bad experience, or they've had a family member suffer because of the way they were treated (or both), it can be hard to see the bigger picture. Simply because you don't have anything to weigh it up against, it's a biased approach, unfortunately. Then you have the UK newspapers weighing in with their four penneth and it is hard to see the positives.

If you want someone to blame, blame the Chief Executive of that particular NHS trust. He/she is the one responsible for all of it, he/she is the one responsible for the mis-management of funds, the down trodden attitude of many of the staff, the underfunding, the un-staffed positions, the closing down of beds etc.

On the good side, there are loads of 3 star hospitals and it is increasing all the time. These are hospitals where they are run really well and they DO exist. Just pisses me off that people ignore these places because it's easier to moan about the poorer ones.

*shrugs*

This post is in no way directed any anyone, incidentally. It is just MY moan about the way the NHS is given short shrift.

Good point, I've split it off as we were rather naughty...

Oh and I had no idea what to call it, so I just used "UK Healthcare" although "UK/USA differences" would probably be more appropriate upon looking back. But, it's done now so like it or lump it, can't change it!

Agreed here as well

D has had nowt but good experiences with the NHS...his local GP was even wonderful to me the few times I needed a doctor over there...

I was posting as you split it....so move my post too mags

I agree that Chas, saywhat's mom and featherb's friend's experiences don't paint a clear picture of everything. As we know, there ARE good trusts out there who provide an excellent service to the communities they serve. I suppose it is always the 'horror' stories that grab more attention.

It is shameful that said NHS chief executives don't make their trusts live up to that standard, however. Its too bad no one seems to have found a way to do that. Chas' family alone has complained time and again about their local trust - but to no avail (and surely they're not the only ones who have complained). I'm not sure what else it would take.

And yes feather, it WAS Wexham Park where Chas was. Crap ### place!! I'm not surprised by your friends' story - unfortunate as it is.

As Alan mentions - the other thing that puzzles me is how you can be required to wait for an appointment when you're ill. What's the point of having doctors if you can't see them when you're actually ill?

Done!

cheers m'dear

I think the people who work in healthcare are great - I couldnt do it - I had two kids and never changed a nappy-it would make me gip !

BUT !!!

I think they are too close to the subject and have become used to the low standards of the NHS AS AN ORGANISDATION.

So they think they re doing ok when the doctor's patient only have to wait a couple of hours among all the bleeding, coughing patients who patiently wait and wait.


I am lucky enough to have an NHS dentist - recently a crown came loose and I was quoted 2 moths for an appointment.

I went private and was seen 1 hour after I came off the phone to the NHS - £50 and it was done.

This is not hearsay - this is my direct evidence

My dad went in for a varicose vein operation on his leg. They messed up the anti-blood clot procedure, sent him home and within 24 hours he was having mini strokes and then a heart attack. He died.

That is not hearsay

I dont WANT to hear about all the self congratulations about when things go right - I want the bad stuff to be STOPPED ! THAT is what is important !

My sister in law took her daughter to the Docs and the doc said the kid had flea bites and told the mother to look through the microscope at the teeth marks - two days later it was confirmed the kid had chicken pox !
That is not hearsay

Until the NHS staff realise that they will always bear the brunt of criticism because of the awful SYSTEM, and help to change that rather than being defensive about their own valuable role which everyone agrees is good, then nothing will change.
They have become used to low funding, horrible administration and incompetence amongst managers and they actually think it is ok and spend all their time pointing out the nice things and the times when things went great and all the happy smiling patients

THEY are not the problem so caste off those blindfolds

I'm not sure either, to be honest. If a Chief Executive continues to run a place badly he/she DOES get replaced eventually. It isn't publicised that they were leaving cause they're crap, it is usually under the guise of "new job, how wonderful" etc etc. All you can do is hope that the person they get in is better, but recovery for a "sick" hospital takes time, unfortunately.

I worked for St George's in Tooting and we were a mid range hospital (two star). We were also a tertiary referral unit for heart patients. We got the very ill patients with whom a heart transplant was the only hope. Many died, though not through any lack of care or poor surgery. It hit the papers of course and because of them, we lost two excellent surgeons. They were not at fault, their patients were high risk and knew this when they signed the consent forums.

But the papers got hold of it and wanted blood. People then complained and that was that. After that the heart transplant unit closed down for 6 months and many patients were unable to have operations without having to wait a little while. Many died without having been near an operating table. So, who "won" in the end? Not the patients that's for sure, but the papers sure felt smug cause they got two surgeons "retired". Nice.

That's typical of the way the NHS is treated I find. Yes, it is warranted in certain situations, without a doubt, but I find alot of it is blown out of proportion by the papers on their "crusade". Patients then suffer whilst investigations are carried out and it makes the whole thing far worse, imo.

/rant over.

THe NHS has its problems (my experiences were always great) but is it necessarily better in the US? Well that depends on your coverage.

Robin and Tracy ? think I am suffering a nostalgia rash - might have to see the Doc !

For all I blast the NHS, If I need an uninsured heart transplant in the U.S. I will have to lose my house and wad or die - at least that won't happen in the UK and I AM taking it with me !

I am sure the U.S. system has lots of rogues too - luckily I can spot em most times

I only had private health once in the UK and the specialist said - 'I don't know if you have an appendix problem or not but I can take it out if you want'

I told him to go ahead as I had just seen an programme on antarctic explorers who have theirs out as a precaution as they will be cut off for 6 months - so I thought it was a bit of free maintenance. That guy was just running up his bill and I knew it and he knew it and it will be like that many times in the US I have no doubt. That private hospital was beautiful and I didnt want to leave but they threw me out after a couple of days.

In the UK the NHS incentive is to tell you to go away and in the US the incentive is to do lots of unnecessary stuff - take your pick. I don't like being ripped off , but waiting x months for what could be critical tests is not right either

The last time I needed MRI - I waited 8 months for an appointment and no you can't chose your specialist. When I got there I had to wait three hours. The waiting room was full but nobody in the room spoke English.

Look the issue seems to be whether all the success stories and nice experiences means that we should lay off criticizing the NHS.

If railtrack left the crossing gates open by mistake and 999 cars crossed safely and the last one was hit by an express train , would we say their safety standards were fine given the low number of problems ?

that is the NHS right now.

My wife has just pulled a chunk of onion out of my ear - I am getting desperate for cures to this ear problem that the Doc refuses to even inspect - and lost half the vegetable in my lug hole !

I repeat - you health workers should NOT be defending the status quo but making more noise than the patients about making sure the horror stories stop happening - it is not in your interests to paint a rosy picture because a lot of patients know what the reality is, and will go private and leave you with the addicts and alkis and attempt suicides and gunshot cases.

That makes total sense. I suppose having a chief exec 'ousted' because of patient complaints would be a good thing; but situations like you described which make public attention NOT such a good thing. Double edged sword, I suppose. Although it sounds like the press grabbed it, ran with it and made it into something that perhaps they should not have. That is sad.



That's the biggest problem I see with the US system - the inequity based on what you can afford (or possibly even the size town you live in - thus, your 'access' to care). Its a shame that the rich get the best care - and that should be rectified.

That said - there are the obvious inequities of care in the UK, too (your experiences compared to the ones Alan cited) - yet everyone there is paying the same.

It seems to me, too, that the out of pocket things that folks pay in the UK are completely different based on where you live. I remember another thread here once where we were debating the price of certain dental procedures. What my hubby paid was FAR more than what someone else paid. One can understand a bit of a difference - a few pounds here or there - but in that thread, the differences were hundreds of quid.

If its an NHS covered treatment, why the huge differences? Just trying to understand.

I had foot surgery in NYC in Jan 2003, on insurance. He messed up so he did it again in Dec 2003. FOR FREE.

I had a free surgery in the UK (to correct the bad US surgery) which took a few reschedules but it happened. My local GP would see me in quickly & was great.

I now have a lawsuit pending against the US doctor as my foot is permanently disfigured. Hubby spent 3 hours waiting with a disclocated finger in a US ER 3 weeks ago. Cost us a fortune too (not yet insured).

I prefer the NHS, thanks.

Dear Mrs Deville

Yes there are incompetent doctors all over.... and Dr Shipman murdered 215 patients on the NHS !

and Doctor Crippen was an American doctor - and we hanged him !

http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/dr_crippen.htm

So yes we can't say that the doctors are better or worse and they move between the countries anyway..

was hubby's dislocated finger in one of those 'free' ER places - the ones who send you a bill later - or was it an insurance jobby ?

I haven't figured out the system in the US totally but apparently the insurance companies wriggle out of the claim if you don't comply with their terms exactly.

Perhaps US Medicare people get a good deal as they will get paid out and won't be refused after they are a certain age - I will be one of those in 5 years if the USCIS/NVC/DOS don't give me a heart attack before then...

The NHS has rationing by age - so they say - I always note hearsay when I use it

alan

I have never had a problem with the NHS, my US wife loved the midwife service when having a baby, so much so she wants to have a midwife again much to the fustration of our insurance company. I have been more fustrated by the system over here than anywhere else. When we came back here we came back as a family, therefore no medical insurance. My wife and son got on Medicaid until I got full time employment, but I only recently got insurance, thank god I didnt get sick before. I am now having to worry about the cost of having another baby as my deductible will come into play.

The NHS isnt perfect, but at least I was ALWAYS seen by a GP on the day if I called before 10am. Over here if my son is sick we have to wait 3-4 days, unless he has an ear infection then its 48 hours.

Now dont get me wrong, my son had an operation whilst on Medicaid and the level of service and the standard of the hospital were superb, better than what I have seen in the UK. However I just don't understand in a country as rich and wealthy as America that it doesn't have a unified health care system. My wife is also works as an insurance biller for a doctors surgery and the way these insurance companies get the payments wrong just in the hope that you don't notice.

Neither system is perfect, but I would rather not have to worry about insurance and coverage and just know that I will be taken care off.

Wow -- you mustn't have been living in North London then! I had to see my GP earlier this year about what turned out to be a torn ligament in my wrist. At first I had ignored the pain for a day, but it swelled up alarmingly and I called the surgery to seek help. I was told it would be one week until any doctor, not just my GP, could see me. I told them my wrist was popping all the time, I was in terrible pain unless I doped myself to high heaven with Solpadeine and my wrist was almost triple its normal size. No dice, but maybe I could go to casualty? (No way, Jose!) One week later, my wrist was in a splint and the doctor actually asked me why I had waited so long to seek help! I'm still having problems with the wrist, and I was told it could take up to a year to heal. I have no way of knowing whether the delay in getting treatment made the healing process slow down.

I have had awesome care on the NHS on occasion, adequate to good care most of the time, and on a few occasions truly terrible care that endangered my life. I have no idea what to expect in the US -- I'm hoping my interview tomorrow will result in an employment contract (as opposed to a consultancy agreement) that will allow me to take advantage of the great care available at the university's health clinic. Otherwise, I'm praying nothing goes wrong in the next few months!

I've already had a crack at my personal experience with NHS so not going to do it again (too much time to explain).

Whatever way you look at it the NHS is falling apart...BUT....although you will find people (like myself) who will criticize the NHS as a whole very few people will speak badly against the nurses because most of them try very hard every day and many of those who don't try are probably so demoralized!

Mum was in and out the hospital all the time for a few years, I know Warrington hospital like the back of my hand now. We've seen many examples of staff trying to do their best for all the patients.

But the level of care: the cleanliness, the amount of nurses (and too many managers!), too many wards and smaller hospital closing is getting simply dangerous.

Every single person in my family has had a bad experience with NHS. My own was not so serious thankfully, but they almost killed my mother through negligence (again because they were too busy to cope). I can't help feeling if this is just my family, Gods know what the rest of the UK is like.

Lived in Bristol.

I guess the conclusion is that the NHS staff are like the soldiers serving in Iraq

Everyone supports the poor folk who bear the horror of the front line mess in Iraq and the NHS, but that does not mean we can't criticise the circumstances under which they are forced to work and demand changes...

We won't get them of course but that's democracy for you - is it better to die neglected on a trolley in a corridor under democracy or be quickly cured under say communism in cuba ?

Dont think too hard about it - you might become depressed and you know the waiting list for that.

I live in Oxford and I've always been able to see one of the GPs at my surgery the same day I called. The same was true when I lived in America though.

Thesnowman - Hopefully you do get the job. If you don't, you should look into short term health coverage. When you go without coverage, it's nearly impossible to get coverage for existing conditions when you do finally get health insurance. AAA offers it and I bet quite a lot of places do too. Having been under the NHS in the UK should be your current proof of existing coverage.

I think walk-in clinics are the way to go. Having a free health service - as it should be - unfortunately means that you open the door to every hypochondriac with a hangnail to take up valuable time. A&E can't cope if you don't want to wait to make an appointment to see your doctor. Besides, they're dealing with the pub fight victims, so you end up waiting for four hours anyway.

Open more walk-ins. See a nurse. Get a bandaid and a kind word, if that's what you need. Or access to treatment pronto if it's more serious. (And with fewer people taking up your doctor's time, hopefully that should be swifter.)

I can walk in and see my 3 lady doctors any morning without an appointment.

I can get fast free treatment for dangerous things like heart attack/stroke

Where the NHS is simply hopeless is all the things that ruin your life without being dangerous - say a hernia or depression ..

Then you have to wait months and months with your quality of life affected.

The U.S. health system is truly financially scary and the financial incentives for doctors to 'run up the bill' are disturbing - and for the insurers to walk away on a technicallity - but if it goes well then it's supposed to be great (generally speaking)

Neil Kinnock once said in a speech following the re-election of a Tory government: 'I warn you not to get sick. I warn you not to be old'.

I am just a young guy setting out in life and looking forward to my 60th birthday in November so I don't need to worry about U.S. insurers not giving me a good deal as an immigrant (cough), but I will have to take care with arrangements in future

I would agree with you there, Alan. I think that the NHS were getting better at treating mental illness when I left - albeit in a pharmaceutical rather than a counselling way - but hernias, hip operations and like are still lagging behind.

I took the added precaution of marrying a young American who wants to work until she drops at jobs which carry full spousal health insurance - but it makes me feel sad for the rest...

just joking Carolyn in case you read this ! It was a happy coincidence ! kiss kiss

so true

There's got to be a happier balance in there somewhere.

I have a few NHS stories, and none are really that bad, and one happened because of a USA company the UK purchased supplies from lol (figures!)

My first experience with NHS was just bizarre. After living in the UK my hubby and I thought I was pregnant and he made me go to his GP. I only spoke to a nurse that day, but she was very thorough, asked a lot of questions, was very sweet. She had me give her a urine sample, and told me she'd call me later with the results. That seemed very odd to me, as I thought pee tests were instant, but didn't argue. We went home, called the office after waiting two days for a result to a pee test, only to be told it was negative. Honestly we just didn't believe it, at that point it was march, and I hadn't had my visitor since January. We went out that day, came home just in time to watch the news and there it was, first story: PREGNANCY TESTS RECALLED IN NORTHERN ENGLAND AND SCOTLAND DUE TO FALSE NEGATIVES - Tests provided by a USA firm have been giving false negatives and it has effected hundreds of women throughout Northern England and Scotland. We knew this was us lol Went back a week later and presto it was positive. They never admitted it was their mistake (or the tests mistake) but I did get quality care during my time there but I went back home to give birth.

In another experience, our youngest son has asthma, and while we were visiting Scotland for his first trip to meet his gran, he became very ill about 5 days before we had to leave. My mother-in-law took us to emergency, he was seen immediately by a doctor who I could not understand at all, I had to keep looking at my mother-in-law to translate, and she could barely understand her. He was admitted immediately there were no xrays, no blood tests, nothing I have seen doctors do in the USA when I've rushed him to the ER. No blood oxygen monitor on him constantly. I thought we were getting substandard care from the start (because I had a preconceived notion of how it "should" be) A nurse came in, gave him several breathing treatments in a row, and he finally was able to rest. We were in a room with maybe 12 other children and their parents. He was given breathing treatments all night long (not with a nebulizer as they do in US hospitals, but with an inhaler and spacer) The next morning he was exhausted but his breathing was wonderful. They wouldn't discharge him until late the next evening, but he only had to spend one night in the hospital. I had a similar experience in the USA, they kept him in for 4 days and 3 nights and he was hooked to tubes, machines, and needles the whole time. After getting over my initial crap, I realized the care he was given in the UK was a little less invasive, and much less traumatic for him, with the same end result - Plus even though he didn't have an NHS card, they said it would be free as his father was a UK citizen, and he didn't have to apply for a card or number, it would be taken care of without paper work. *shock*

Yes that is one thing I am concerned about in the U.S. - most people say the standard is very good but there is always that nagging doubt that because it is a business with a profit motive, there will always be a tendency to over treat the problem...
My wife says it doesnt work like that and the doctors in the U.S. are motivated by service to the patient (like the UK) rather than money - I will have to find out through experience

I think that can vary from doctor to doctor. There are always charlatans out there, unfortunately.

You have to find one you are comfortable with who you are sure has your best interests and overall health in mind.
That can mean going to a few before you settle on one, or going to someone who is recommended by a friend or family member.

I found quite a reasonable chap, he certainly didn't come across as being out for the money. In fact he said given my medical history we wasn't going to get rich on me.

Thats good - Carolyn is usually right about these things. I suppose the problem comes if you get injured a couple of thousand miles away from home and you don't know the ropes in that area...
Anyway we intend to get good health insurance as she will be unemployed at first. I will go for a really high deductible like $5k or even $10k as that cuts the premium right down...

At least as a Brit, if you needed a new ticker or something and your insurance company finds a way of ducking out, and wont pay a quarter mill, you can always come back to the UK and get fixed up. I have seen posts about the immorality of that, ( a lot of moralising goes on) and they say I should volunteer to stay in the U.S and lose my home and pension and savings in those circumstances. However, my past dealings with the NHS are miniscule and I have been paying into the system since 1964 so I am due a few sticking plasters I reckon....

It's nice to have that backstop as they will pauper you in the U.S. if you are not insured (or if your insurance wriggles out of it)...

Isn't it strange that Carolyn can come to the UK and get free NHS cover on landing even though the UK govt didnt require a medical ?

If she had had a very expensive uninsured health problem she would have found a great solution to it coming here....

As it is, she has made no calls on them, partly because the U.S. health industry makes sure that the NHS is seen as a very bad idea and 'they give you an aspirin and send you away'. She is saving any routine stuff until she is back in the US even though she will have to pay because of what she has heard about the NHS before coming here.

The NHS is pretty bad in some areas but its not bad for free ! Remember it is free - even if you have never worked - its free - paying NHI is not required to get free treatment.

Ok I will give the US doctors the benefit of the doubt as far as profiteering is concerned - but I will get an estimate all the same !

But doesn't paying the NHI make it NOT free? (Unless you are one of those who does not pay?)

Plus I know you pay out some for prescriptions (though not much usually) and dentists? So NOT free!

Well as I say , if an American comes to live here as a resident and falls down the steps as she gets off the plane in Manchester, she is entitled to free treatment open ended, no lifetime limit, no limit for that incident or that condition. This is despite the fact that she never paid a penny into the NHS. NHI is more like general taxation in that there is no contract where not paying insurance unentitles you to treatment. If as a sole trader, you defrauded your NHI bill for 10 years, you would still get free treatment as there is no connection, no contract, no link. Prescription charges are £6 something flat rate even if the drugs cost one thousand.

If the al queada guy who tried to blow up glasgow airport had lived, he could have had 2 years free treatment for his burns without his assets being touched ... now there is a thought...

Dentists are a mess and even me, as tight as I am goes private now. So I will probably pay the same for dentistry in the US unless I want one of those blindingly white hollywood smiles they all have on TV...

Ok - I think I see what you were getting at now about the NHI. Interesting about the sole trader bit - thanks for the explanation. Too bad hubby was so honest (17 years self employed)! Could have saved himself a ton of $!!

I think the prescription deal is great - wish we had it!!! But even though its WAY reasonable, its still not free. That point seems to be lost on those who want to talk about why we here should have 'free' healthcare - they seem to conveniently forget stuff like that which makes it not free.

I'll be curious to hear your take on costs for dentistry here vs. private in the UK. My hubby can't get over how cheap his first cleaning + 5 xrays was here in comparison to what he would have paid for it in the UK -- and his was even a NHS dentist.

Firstly I was horrified when Carolyn told me the routine manner in which dentists do x-rays in U.S. We are very strictly rationed when it comes to x-rays coz they cause cancer. We have lifetime limits and doctors/dentists are loathe to do em. My cousin died of jaw cancer (60 fags a day not xrays) . Freddy Mercury died of only 1 fag a day... no no thats digressing

The dentists here have lead aprons and all that stuff and are really scared about it. She has xrays all the time for routine checkups in the U.S.... big difference - I will try and avoid that. At least we don't need a night light in the bedroom with all those glowing teeth.

Anyway, yes I was scared of US dentistry costs as I thought they might take a K off me if I lost a crown - but apparently it isnt any more than the UK and so I am quite prepared to believe its often cheaper... The surgery building and all the equipment and the dentists car and petrol are all going to be half the UK price or less for a start - so the salaries can be double and still end up cheaper.....

I think we are of a very close age and I'm with you on that one. I've paid my NI since I was 17 for 42 years and whatever I might need from the UK health system I have more than contributed for.

Oh I'm not sure about that! I had a terrible experience with an NHS dentist so went private the last time I needed treatment in the UK. I had a crown put in for 200 English pounds. My husband recently got a crown put in over here in the US - $600. Maybe his was some sort of ultra-platinum deal or something but it definitely was more. This also did not include the initial $7000 estimate to bring his English teeth to standards acceptable to the American dentist.

Wondered why you talked so much sense - you are an old git like me !

actually we are a heck of a lot younger than clint eastwood and I am many years younger than mick jagger and even younger than david bowie so some fresh fruit and veg in florida and all that health care provided by my young wife's employers should keep me bugging people for some decades yet hopefully - unless I get shot for suggesting that the earth is more than 6,000 years old -oops there I go again.

Alan

$7k for nashers ! jeez, I think I would spend that on a nice motorbike and gum it through my remaining years....

The salary of dentists plus liability insurance must be driving up prices - plus the demand of everyone wanting that special 'sparkle'...

Different standards indeed ! I can believe it.

I knew a lady in Colorado who insisted on showing me her teeth when they had just been done - they were fantastic teeth but she opened her mouth wide and pushed them as close to my eyes as possible so I could admire them... They were absolutely perfect ! Never seen nashers like that outside the US. It was like being attacked by a hungry grand piano . If thats the only culture shock I am going to have then I will be ok but I was quite taken aback

7k ? hum, 7k = 3500 gbp -- at £3 for fish and chips thats say 1167 times fish and chips - 52 weeks in a year - thats free fish and chips and mushy peas every friday for 22 years !

and you dont really need teeth to eat em... or a pint of Timothy Taylor's fine championship ale every friday night for 30 years !

Now do I want to sit at home for 30 years flashing those sparkling tussy pegs and making the cat blink, or go down the black bull and get my free pint for 30 years...

its all decisions

Teeth or a HOG without a shadow of a doubt a nice used HOG

Well, I did suggest we extract them all and replace them with a wooden set to save money........