Sad to say but I think this is a point really worth paying attention to. I am in NO WAY defending or condoning because Lord knows, I wouldnt stay with an abuser but I DO think this and the other situations we have seen are a weird little offshoot of a cultural phenomonen. His behaviour IS acceptable to some degree where he comes from and its certainly possible he really DOES NOT think he is doing anything wrong. Dee perhaps from his perspective you really ARE mouthy and full of attitude and he could be puzzled as to why he cant control you..
I dont beleive all MENA men are like this as I am married to an extremely openminded man who loves and appreciates my spirit and will, but its true that there are many from that part of the world who believe the man operates by completely different rules than women. I dated a guy like this for a while a few years ago and after some time it became clear that it was never going to be resolved. Dee if your husband is from this 'old school' I think you are just fighting a losing battle. No amount of counseling or intervention is going to be able to change his view if he truly thinks he is right and you are just causing trouble and speaking out of turn. He may never be able to adjust to a western style wife.

Dee - First and foremost, HE CHOOSE his own actions...NOT YOU! You are not in any way responsible for his behavior. Abusive people (men and women) are pros at manipulating the situation to deflect any responsibility to themselves. I truly believe that even if he were to get agressive therapy, you still shouldn't be there with him.

I think for anyone that is in a relationship, it is IMPERATIVE that you establish your boundaries right off the bat. IMO, when you set these boundaries, those people that "look" for people they can easily manipulate give up pretty quickly.

My husband knows that if he ever laid a finger on me that I would kick his azz!!!!!! Just say'in....

The Sparrow is correct. "Control" is the operative word here. Everything he is doing right now is to gain control over you. The longer he can remain in the situation, the more time he has to break down your self esteem and have you doubting yourself. Get out now.

I have to totally disagree with this. He knows very well what he is doing. And he knows it's wrong.

I'm certainly no expert on the region but just as an aside when I talked to my husband about this issue last night he asked where in Egypt he was from. I asked why that would matter and apparently he said this would be shocking if he grew up in the city of Alexandria itself, but if it were in a town only remotely close to Alex it wouldn't be that unheard of.

Also, while in Alex we were out on the balcony one night and heard fighting. We both got up and saw a man beating his wife. Well all of a sudden the wife stood up on the balcony ledge and jumped to her demise 7 or 8 floors below. People on the street scrambled and finally helped her onto an ambulance when it came and what did the guy who was beating her do??? Sat down and smoked a butt. Didn't even go down to see what the heck happened.

I truly hope, regardless of what the outcome of your present situation is, that you, Dee, will find a good counselor. I am saying this from personal experience. I was with the most gigantic @sshole of all-time for four years. The stories I can tell. OMG. When I finally got up the nerve to leave him, it was the hardest thing I ever did. I cried for a day. The next day I immediately called and found a good counselor. I wanted to understand what exactly it was that led me to this crappy, emotionally abusive relationship so I would NEVER repeat it again. I wanted to break the cycle (as my dad was an abuser and my mom just stuck in there too). I want you to break the cycle for the sake of your children as well. I wish you all the best and just know there are a bunch of us here to support you.

Twila

How awful!

It is acceptable in Egypt but not here and most Egyptians (esp. younger ones) know that it's unacceptable here. My husband and I have had discussions about how spousal abuse is somewhat "normal" in Egypt. However, my husband knows it's not acceptable nor is it ever appropriate here (or elsewhere). He knew this before he met me. My FIL has abused my MIL in the past. This haunts my husband to this day (the abuse took place during his childhood). He still gets teary eyed when talking about it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but it would be shocking in Alex yet you saw this in Alex?

I don't think they lived there. This was in an area with hotels and flats that I assume were vacation rentals. I know what you're saying though but immediately my husband had said they're not from Alex.

I just want to add, there are many things "normal" in a culture that people still know are wrong. In the US maybe it's sex before marriage, drinking to excess, drinking and driving, cheating on taxes, cheating at anything, beating a wife.

The same goes for spousal abuse, not just here, but everywhere.

honestly at this point i agree with sara...

I really dont think he "gets it" people have asked him.. Did you hit her.. and he says No.. but I honestly think HE thinks that is truthful.. maybe cause he is not punching or just slapping the crap out of me.. that everything else is different..

Hmmmm.......well again I am not familiar (thank God) with this type of abuse BUT..........in my own personal experience with a different type of abuse that I endured in my youth, the only way I could actually live with it and still keep a relationship with the person is to convince myself that he does not know that he is doing this. That may or may not be true in my case, i.e. he may have multiple personalities, and to be quite honest I won't even go there in my mind to figure it all out until he dies because I don't have the strength to, but I have to say I'm leaning towards this being a total survival mechanism on my part....................and I have to think it's the same for you.

You are living with him so how on earth could you do that without freaking out in total panic 24/7 unless you tell yourself that he doesn't really "get it" and thereby the excuse is made for him, he's off the hook and you see him as "sick" instead of "bad".

Bottom line, sick or bad, the result is that you're living a life of hell and if he is indeed sick, unless he is willing to go seek professional (as in a doctor, not an imam) help, it's still going to be hell.

When you married him you married a totally different person. That person doesn't seem to exist anymore so you are totally in your rights to leave if need be. Like I said before in pm, although it's harder to do this when he's not being physical,...maybe it's best to let him go while things are quiet so that you can detach with love still.

doodle, that is a great observation. I know exactly what you mean, and when I was a child used this tactic to make sense of things in my head. Later as an adult I found out this particular abuser had violated many children, including his own, and it just clicked with me that, of course he knew what he was doing.

Dee, your husband isn't a dummy. Just because he is rationalizing (or lying about it) in his own head that he didn't do anything wrong, doesn't make it so.

this would be my best wish for our ending... but how to make that happen???

where's the chloroform????????

You need to take a deep breath, know that you are doing nothing wrong, and ask him to leave. Do what it takes to buy his plane ticket. And he has to go. If there are problems with this, you call the police. If you don't have a man or men who will come over to escort him out, the police are your only option. The Imam seems like a very reasonable man. You might consider calling him and asking what support system there is to get him out of the house and to the airport. You can also call domestic violence groups in your area and get their expert advice how to do this.

I wish I had a big bouncer type guy that could come with me to escort him to the airport after you explain that it's over to him...in our presence of course so that it cannot become violent. Could your family do something like this for you? (I have a feeling your mom might be on board with this idea ).

Sure it won't be all love and stuff when you do it and it will take a few months but eventually you will be able to look at some good times..............and if you can't maybe at that point you won't even want to..... You are young, beautiful, very intelligent, strong willed , funny and quite honestly have a LOT to offer any man that might want you.

How about all of us MENA chicks get on our dark clothing and ski masks and head up your way with a car load of baseball bats? If he won't leave peacefully...we'll "suggest" that he does!

I had a total video image in my head of all of us in ski masks piled in the car. I actually laughed out loud at work and the co-workers were staring at me!!

Yeah, his sulking has GOT to end. He's just trying to lay on the guilt. You're not that stupid to fall for that crap. I like the police escort idea a lot. I don't know how open he is to discussion but 1 way you might try it is just plainly telling him that its not working out and you both are miserable so it would be best if he went home??? Just an idea.

amal

over the weekend one of the Imams (the american one) WAS supposed to help escort him out... but the Imam stopped returning me and my families phone calls I am just disappointed.. let down

there are no men in the family... all are dead or could care less

and my mom would LOVE to but I would never want her in harms way... plus she has her own rage issues.. and things could get ugly


the Moroccian woman "friends" that interviened this weekend I doubt would help me actually get him out


I am gonna try and get us to have a Sit down with the Egyptian Imam... but I dont know to what extent that will help..

and my aunt is on the fence.. I almost feel she is taking his side.

I feel screwed from all around

Sorry to hear you are going through all of this

You sound like a very strong woman and mother and I hope that you are able to continue in being strong as you are dealing with this daily.

I am not an MENA girl but I have a nice bat and ski mask

Hmmm this is a tough situation. You don't have any friends who have husbands or any male cousins or uncles? No males whatsoever? Do you have a group of friends, acquaintences, cousins, neighbors that could be present when you tell him you're done and he has to leave? They don't even have to be male just basically witnesses in case things get ugly. I'm sure you have SOMEONE who could be with you in case something happens. Someone who could call the cops just in case. Basically ask him if he wants to leave on his own (the easy way) or if he wants to have a police escort. I'm thinking he'd probably want to leave quietly and not get the police involved. I wouldn't even ask him when he wants to leave, I'd buy the ticket and let him know when YOU want him to leave.

The Sit Down talk will go nowhere. Of course he'll say he wants to stay. But, you don't care what he wants at this point, you need him to get out. Buy the ticket, tell him he has to go. Call the police if need be.

??????

omg coke zero EVERYWHERE!!!!!

I have a question I hope it's not taken as grilling but it's something I was just wondering about. I know when our SO's are far away and we can only talk to them online/phone we may not discuss every topic in the world, but did you ever discuss the issue of abuse in relationships before with him before he came? Or how husbands should treat their wives?

I'm just asking because I was wondering if he said he was against abuse and was in support of treating his wife very nicely but then flip flopped on it, or if he never stated how he felt about it in any of your talks.

It's seems like it's definitely something that should come up in talks when you are marrying someone from a very different culture, so you probably did, but still I was wondering.

And if anyone hasn't discussed this topic with their SO, they definitely should (no matter what culture they are from, ya just never know sometimes!).

And even if he doesn't think it's wrong... he's had years and years of believing it's fine to beat his wife... how would you estimate the chances that he's going to have an epiphany and turn over a new leaf?

I know some of the suggestions recently have attempted to provide some levity to the situation, and please know I am sure it is needed about now, but let's do so in a constructive way. Lets keep this thread positive with support for Dee.

yup it has been talked about... cause that is why i left my Ex.. the father of my kids...

He always said it was wrong or Haraam for a man to hit his wife...

i guess he changed his mind

Dee -- I am not an expert in the laws of your state, but I know that it can be very VERY difficult to remove a person who has taken up legal residence in your home, unless you have proof of abuse or threats. By law, and according to the immigration paperwork you have signed, it is "his" home, too (at least until a legal motion is filed to remove him.)

You would probably need to file a restraining order to get any immediate action; otherwise you may have to actually "evict" him (which can take more than a month or even longer.) I don't know if police were called and a report was made about any of the incidents, or if you have any photos or witnesses, but these would be very helpful to your case. Please call the women's crisis center and get advice immediately.

One option may be to move out (temporarily) to a friend or relative's home, and have the electricity, water and phone disconnected. This *may* be the fastest way to prompt him to find another place to stay -- then you change the locks -- but I am not sure of the legal ramifications. Your husband may not be aware of his "rights" to residence, but it seems he is getting advice somewhere on how to entrench himself. You need expert legal advice in how to proceed.

By all means, do NOT send in those AOS checks. You can inform USCIS that you have decided not to pursue the AOS, but I'm not sure what action (if any) they would take to remove him.

God with you always.



-MK

I have read everything here and I don't see where any of the advice was not constructive, but ok.

Anyways Dee, I agree with Peezey- just ask him to leave. If he asks you why then that truly means he doesn't get that what he did is not acceptable which is jsut really sad. He should know very well why.
Don't feel bad- he brought this upon himself.

Exactly violence is all about power and control here is a link to the power and control wheel commonly referenced to with any DV/Crisis group......

http://www.uic.edu/depts/owa/power_control...ip_image001.jpg

Has anyone heard from Dee?

she pm'd me this morning. Probably just busy with work stuff.

honestly I'm getting sick of MYSELF with all of this!!!!!!!

i am annoying myself..... if that makes any sense

My girlfriends husband came over on a K-3 and when he left her, we called our immigration lawyer. HE said that if, in his passport, he has a certain stamp (i'll find out what it was exactly) then he had a year to stay after they got divorced. If it didn't have that certain stamp, then he had 30 days to go back to his country after the divorce was final. I don't know if you have access to his passport or not to see what stamps are on his visa but see if u can get it. I'll be happy to give you our lawyers name and number if you would like to talk to him. He is really nice and deals with this stuff alllllll the time. He is a good friend of my husband. I'll help out any way I can.

amal

Anyone hear from Dee? I sent her a text a while ago but no answer.

Please keep her in your prayers everyone. It's not good at all. Hopefully I'll be able to see her tonight but she really needs all the prayers, love, support you can give right now. I can't really say much more.

My husband and I are praying for her.

we are too.

I'm sorry to hear that. I'll keep her in my thoughts and prayers.

Dee my prayers are with you and your children.

Stay safe Dee.

This has me extremely worried.

God with you Dee. I hope you and your kids are in a safe place now.



-MK

doodle, i just sent you a pm. Let me kow if you got the second on which was the real message

I have been following this story for the past week and as much as I hate to say it, I'm not surprised things are not good. I've seen this happen way too many times for a man to "change" in a week.

Thinking about and praying for you and your kids wellbeing and safety

Doodle,
Please do all you can to physically check on her if at all possible. The situation sounds serious. I know many of us are seriously concerned for her safety.

Doodle thanks for doing your best to keep us all in the loop. I think I speak for many of us when I say we are so terribly worried about Dee. However your most recent post has only made me worry more and I know that was not your intent but can you please let us know if she is safe and ok at this point?