Anyone else have a Catholic/Christian fiance in MENA? Even if not I could still use your help!

This might be a stupid question but are there any phrases in Arabic that should not be said by Christians as they are like Muslim phrases? Maybe it's a weird question but I have no idea. I can think of examples in English where Christians would not say Wiccan phrases & vice versa. I'm also looking for different Arabic CDs as well so I can learn it, and the current 3-CD set I have is rather monotonous and I don't think I've ever made it to the 3rd CD (I've had it since February!)

Basically, what are some big no nos that I would run across that are reserved specifically for Muslims and if you're not Muslim, don't do it?

I just really want to know how to act without offending anyone, especially acting in ignorance so any advice is very appreciated!


(My religious background/upbringing is very very confusing--got tangled up in a household tug of war as my mom is heavily into the New Age movement, my dad is atheist, and both of my grandmothers are Jehovah's Witnesses).

OH: Anyone know how to explain Jehovah's Witnesses in Arabic? This is one thing I've failed miserably at conveying to my fiance, when I say my grandmothers are them he's like "what's that?"......I think his father explained it to him but I want to know his father was right.

I can't think of really anything a Christian wouldn't say that a Muslim would. Both say "inshallah", "alhamdulilah", "salaam alaikum". The difference is when a Muslim answers a Muslim after salaam alaikum it may include wa rahmantullah wa barakatuhu. A Muslim would never include this last part when responding to a Christian. Other than that I'll have to ask my husband. He has quite a few Christian friends and neighbors back home plus he attended Catholic school as a child.

Are you using the Rosetta Stone cd's? That's the one I have and I haven't finished the first cd...though they only gave me one but I think you mean going on to the next level? Anyway I impressed my SIL's by saying bint, whaled but that's as far as I got. It got boring after a while, though I wish I had stuck with it. Luckily they were more intense in their English practicing so we were able to have real conversations this time around. (the older sil and me that is,...the younger one just kept saying "owi helwa" or something like that when doing my hair.)

lol helwa awy...very beautiful (literally, very sweet).

Does the Rosetta Stone offer Egyptian colloquial Arabic?

Yeah, they use the same phrases because contrary to rumor, Allah is just Arabic for God (and yeah, there are all kinds of arguments involving where does the English word come from and all of that, but before Islam, Allah was used in the language and so basically? i don't feel those arguments have any merit, although that's just my opinion. The common thing I've heard is yes, but it means "the God" and God can mean anything, but actually God with a capitol G doesn't mean just anything in English, so that in addition to basic language history and linguistics...), and all Christians, Jews, and Muslims who speak Arabic use the same word and the same phrasing. Moody mentioned the key one, and you'll find this varies depending on the person and how strict they are and/or their mahdab. I know I always heard you shouldn't add the ending for anyone who isn't Muslim OR that you shouldn't even say walaykum asalaam back to someone who isn't Muslim at all, but I've heard both pop back quite often from muslims to non-muslims, including my husband to me. I just don't expect it and take no offense if it's not given back.

What you will find more often as an American (in my experience) is other Americans (christians) who may freak if you use any of these words.

The one I have is just plain Arabic. I did get that Egyptian Colloquial arabic book a while back but he didn't really recognize many of the phrases so I chucked it. We also found that people from Alex speak a little differently from those in Cairo. I didn't get into detail about it and maybe it was just the accents but it was definitely noticible for him. (not for me since I couldn't understand anyone)

Oh one thing...ot-sorry!!....I noticed quite frequently on the bus was that people were arguing a lot and very loud and every so often in the middle of the argument someone would say the shahada. I asked Usama why they did this and he said, "they're hot and tired and they'll say whatever they feel". lol. I thought it was kind of funny kind of like their way of saying "ok enough I'm hot and tired!!!"

that just reminded me of the first time I went to Cairo in the winter and my mom called me and automatically I said "salam alaykum" and all I heard was her saying to my dad "holy sh!t Bill, she's one of THEM" and then she started crying. lol Good times, good times.

My MIL will say part of the shahada all the time. She just says it randomly. I notice she does say it more often when she's annoyed. Maybe that's why the bus ppl were saying it. Kinda to prevent themselves from lashing out maybe. My ex used to always say, la hawla wa la quwatta illah billah, when he was angry. It means something like, there is no power or glory except for God's.

The funny thing is about that Egyptian Arabic phrasebook, it was written in the Cairene dialect. My husband recognizes most of the phrases and words used in that book. He did say that many of the phrases aren't really used.

If there's one thing JWs are good at, it's prosyletizing in lots of language. Give him their arabic website - http://www.watchtower.org/a/index.html

My husband has now scared away the JWs in addition to the mormons. Now he has no one left to argue about the bible with.

Ok I just asked my husband, he said in Egypt they say the same for Christians and they do for Muslims and vice versa including the thing I said Muslims don't say. It was my ex who taught me that Muslims shouldn't say that for Christians. Of course he's from a different mahdab and country, like Julianna said.

My fiancé's a Copt and he says all the same stuff like Moody said. In fact, he met a guy from Jordan down at the mailbox and he came over a few nights ago and I heard so many astafigurallah's go up from downstairs, I didn't know who was saying what.

Yeah, it just seems to depend. Really strict Salafi get into the not even saying anything back, as do some Hanafi. I've seen ti far less in others. What I found funnyis you also see it more in those who do not speak Arabic as a native language than those who do and of those I have asked about it who are native Arabic speakers, they generally say that the otehrs have misunderstood the Arabic. I don't know if that's true or not, and neither do I particularly care-- but I just thought I would toss that out there as a possible reason. It's all "meh" to me.

My ENTIRE family are Jehovah's Witnesses, so I can sympathize with you. My mother has even went as far as studying Islam as to gain insight on how to get the last word in arguments. I was never baptised as a JW. She and my family now refer to me as an "Apostate"...lovely. She has finally come to accept that I have embraced Islam, the religious debates have ceased and she has even stopped feeding my kids pork hot dogs and bologna while I'm at work....
I remember trying to explain Jehovah's Witnesses to my husband, he was like what the?? I told him they kinda sorta have a few of the same ideas as muslims only they are Christians and they believe that Jesus (pbuh) is the son of God and associate partners. Thanks for the link to the website Rahma, maybe now my husband can finally see what he's getting into.

omg too funny...my kids are not muslim but I don't keep pork products in the house. God love my oldest sister because she totally means well but whenever she comes over my house (like today) she brings a huge ziploc baggie of cooked bacon for the kids, like they've been starvin' for it or something. lol. I don't mind as long as I don't eat it but what you said just reminded me of that. lol

OMG!!!!!!! That's funny stuff!!!!!!!!

I think my husband used to say something like that when we were fighting...but I thought he was cussing me out or something. I would tell him..."I don't know what you're saying....but it can't be good!!!!"

Oh my god, doodle, that's horrible and funny at the same time. Doesn't 'salaam alaikum' translate literally to something like 'Peace be with you'? (Like, she says, something that's, well, part of many Christian services and nothing to be afraid of?)

Caladan-- yes. That's what's so bizarre about it all.

Hey, I remembered something from my sixth-grade four weeks of Arabic.

Exactly, that's what I'm so afraid of! My grandmother is amazing when I brought some friends over in high school, she asked what languages they were taking and then pulled out that book they have that explains what JW are in like....EVERY language She was so smooth I was both shocked and impressed. lol

My parents were never baptized either and I wasn't. I studied for two years when I was 10-11 but that was it, and my parents were pisssssed when they found out my grandmothers had been going behind their backs to take me to meetings at the Kingdom Hall. I just want my fiance to have some knowledge of it first than get blindsided by it.



Thank you all so much for the replies! I feel a lot better now and will look into the Rosetta Stone CDs, I currently have something that's in the car so I don't know what it is (lol)...I'll post it when I bring it in the house.

moody - did your husband go to Catholic school in Egypt?
sparrow- your fiance's personal experiences might be the best ones for you to learn from (IMO)

Moody is basically right. The everyday phrases for Copts in Egypt are the same: God willing, Thanks be to God, Peace upon you (*see below). This is because they share a language. The differences come when using words that refer to tenets or beliefs pertaining to each faith.

Some differences I have noticed between the two religions is that Christians don't say any phrases that have to do with the prophet or don't say PBUH (peace be upon him). When Muslims say things like that or other phrases, most Christians just answer with "Taieb" or "Mashy".

On the flip side, Copts use phrases among theirselves that they can or will not use with others. Usually it is anything to do with Jesus or the cross.

In my observations (which are limited to Egypt only and to my Christian family), the usual greeting from a Christian is just "salaam" , but if someone says "salaam alikoum" they will answer "we alikoum salaam". Even though the English translation doesn't mean anything other than peace to you or peace upon you, it is considered a Muslim greeting (in this family, at least).

Caladan - peace to you or peace be upon you can be used in Christian services (in America or in other Arabic speaking countries) , but not in Coptic services - the closest thing they have to that is "Go with the peace of God" said at the end of services. Again, it's not the literal translation that makes it stand out, (wishing peace is very common in many languages and faiths) it is the recognized association with Islam.


That's about as far as I could go with this topic. This forum is public and I am living in Egypt! But, it is interesting, and my advice is for sparrow to ask her fiancee everything she is curious about.

Nik

Some time ago, I talked to my honey about saying assalamu alaykum to people while in Egypt.
I told him that I had heard and read that you shouldn't greet non-muslims this way, and I was confused because how would I know if someone was muslim or not? lol
He said everyone uses it there as a form of greeting, not just muslims.
I'm not sure I feel right about it, because of what I read, but I can't exactly go around asking people what their religion is either.

WHERE IS IT AT???



on the speaking to muslims/non-muslims.... The hubster told me a while back that "assalamo alaykom" is a greeting just for muslims. I said it to someone once and they said "oh, I'm not muslim" so I'm totally wary about saying it at all now.

Yes, Moh attended Catholic school in Egypt. There's a large Christian population in his town and a very large Catholic church and school. He didn't attend religious classes with the Christian kids though. They had an imam come in to do religious instruction to the Muslim kids in the school. The Catholic school offered a better education than the public schools.

Allah” is the Arabic word for “God” and has been so long before the existence of Islam. The word Allah is not a new and unknown word and name. It is a word and name used for the Creator by past prophets and Messengers of the Creator.
The names “Allah” and “God” are generally interchangeable within the Muslim religion and in Middle Eastern cultures. And words used by Muslims are not exclusive "made-up" words, but words of the Arabe language. (which again is older then the construction of the religion of Islam) Esalaam still means the same for a Christian. The Arab Christians use the name Allah for God and Allah is also used as the name for God in Arab Christians' Bible.

Also Allah is not some "moon-god" or "god of the Arabs" as some Western authors have falsely attributed to Islam. Allah is the One True God, Who is the Creator, Unseen, Who has Power over everything. He is the God of the prophets and Messengers; Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad (Peace be upon them all.) All of Gods' (Allahs') prophets and Messengers came with the same message that mankind should only worship the Creator Allah alone, and to not worship others besides Him or ascribe partners to Him in worship (ie. saints, sons, crosses, etc.).

The Arabic language is one of the great unifying and distinguishing characteristics of Arab people. It is divided by Muslim, Christian and Jews. Even so, colloquial Arabic differs from place to place. There are several categories: Levantine dialect (Jordan, Syria, Palestine, Lebanon), Egyptian and North African dialect, and Khalijji, or Gulf, dialect. Modern Standard Arabic (MSA) is a pan-Arabic language used in formal letters, books and newspapers. It is also spoken at Middle East peace conferences and on television news. Quaranic Arabic, like MSA, also is a widely spoken form of the language, but it differs in style and lexicon from MSA.

And throughout MENA arabe is NOT the only language spoken. Assyrian and Chaldeans use a dialect of the
original Aramaic. Berber and Kurdish are other non-Arabic languages of the Middle East. And with colonization of the last 100 years many people in MENA know French as well.

Soo.....more than language, let's go for holidays!

Are there Muslim holidays that everyone celebrates anyway?

Generally Muslims *all* celebrate Islamic holidays. Well it would be assumed as Islam is the main religion in MENA, that all people who hav free days on the Eids. (Just like Christmas here)... Some celebrate New Year also. But generally holidays are celebrated based on religion and national indepedence (if this applies). Unlike here, there they do not celebrate holidays Halloween or Valentine's.

well I would imagine Muslims celebrate Islamic holidays but I meant non-Muslims

My fiance said there was a holiday similar to Valentine's Day but not in February? I forgot when he said it was.

Then that would a make-up Hallmark holiday... not MENA holiday. I only know of New Year and Mother's Day being observed universally. Not Valentine's Day...

in lebanon they celebrate valentines day....and geo said people celebrate it here in Saudi as well.

They celebrate Valentine's Day in Egypt too but I think it's on a different day than ours. Maybe it depends on when the feast of St. Valentine is according to the Copts vs. when it is for the Roman Catholics? Anyway it's a widely celebrated holiday there. I dont' think they do Halloween though.

They have all of the holidays (including western ones) in Jordan, but with the exceptions of the Eids, they are not celebrated as much... my husband says the stuff goes out for them pretty close to the actual date, maybe just a few days before.

It's the same day in Egypt as it is here.

I saw Halloween cookies in the bakery yesterday!!!

It's AUGUST for goodness sakes!!!

In Egypt this year (2007)...

Valentines day was on 14 Feb, in keeping with the rest of the world.

Mothers day came 3 days after the Christian celebration of Mothering Sunday

Halloween is not celebrated in Egypt.
I would like to know why Americans make so much of it.

As it is a Pagan Festival .....

Well for us it's just about kids getting candy and being able to put a costume on. We don't actually celebrate ghosts and the like. I think the "meaning" of halloween got lost in the message and now people just see it as a fun time for kids. (thought it's not so fun for adults when you're trying to plow through Salem traffic during that week )

So is the Moon Festival in China, but I assume you celebrate (or your SO) with a peition going through HK

I know that in Jordan and several other countries, Mother's day is celebrated on the 1st day of Spring.

In Mexico and a few other latin countries Mothers Days is always May 10th

Mother's Day in Egypt is March 21.