Older members vs. newer members? (VJ longevity wise - that is)

Why the divide?

Sorry I don't understand your reference to a gold watch.

I think she means you get a watch when you retire normally. eg. from the police force etc

I'm not sure. But I wish it would stop because it's getting a little ridiculous.

Its caused entirely by one member who seems to have a chip on his shoulder the size of mount rushmore, IMHO.

such is life really...

I obviously missed something. Is this something to do with the Filer threads?

Yes. They give you a gold watch when you retire. It's supposed to make you feel better.

In America, it's also sort of 'code' for 'don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out'.

Partly, its mainly to do with a certain Sword in the Stone removing inhabitant of Camelot though, I think.

So, how do you qualify for a gold watch here?

Another reference I don't understand!

In part. But certainly not entirely.

Maybe we've treated the new members poorly. I dunno. Maybe they think if we aren't separated from our SO, we can't possibly understand them.

It sure is hard on the heart to want to help people but have them put you off.

Defnitely, but there others....

Meaning?

Well I think all us VJers do have a certain shelf life to us, unfortunately.

As we grow further from the process and the rules change...and there being people here with more up to date information and more current experiences....we will each cease to be as effective as we used to be here.

There are always divides...the freshmen are timid, sophmores are gettin their feet, juniors are ballsy and think they're seniors, and the seniors think they run the place.



See above...I knew you'd want more of an explanation, lol.

You're too new! Come back after you get AOS approved!

I know I read up on immigration weekly, if not daily. RJ does as well as other VJers. How can I be less effective if I still educate myself on the subject?

I know more about immigration now than I ever did when I was living abroad....

Well, yeah, I did want an explanation. But not in a bad way - not to start an argument. And I mean that sincerely.

Shelf life? If people are interested in the process and study it, try to keep (at least somewhat) up to date - they are less effective?

Especially if they admit when they didn't know something with the process has changed? I mean it IS fluid and things change a lot.

Why can't the new and the old work together?

I'll be on the newbie side of the fence with my gummy bears, then.

*pats Nini on the head*

Here's a gold star.

There's a divide?

In all seriousness, I don't think the new and the old can't work together. But I think the "new people" tend to see the "old folks" differently sometimes. It's true that as time passes policies and procedures are going to change, and the newbies may presume that what used to work before may not work as well now. However, that doesn't mean that the people who've been here longer, who are still willing to help, aren't going to want the knowledge or not do the research to be more up-to-date on that.

Some people also may be more intimidated by more seasoned folk here on the boards. But it definitely sucks when you want to help someone out and yet you're being put off.

Just my 2c from someone who's still rather new to the whole process.

i guess I am one of the "oldies" and I don't seem to notice people treating me any differently or taking my advice any less seriously...


one thing I have noticed is that newbies do get trod upon a lot.... they say one wrong thing and they are trounced upon...

Look who's talking, you spring chicken.

That shouldn't happen. I think if we work on a 'tutorial' or 'introductory PM' that might keep it from happening.

Marilyn - many many times I have been told that I can't possibly understand how someone is feeling because my husband is with me now. I see that said to other people also.

I've also had people jump all over me the first time I post to them. And I'm not talking about me going in, posting in a snarky way. If I snark somebody, I better be prepared to get it back.

I see people tell other people to get out of threads!! It's unbelievable!! "Oh you don't belong here you didn't file in the same month" or "You're not from the same country".

Why are people so MAD?

I can honestly say i knew nothing at all about immigration. But the Likes of the 'old timers' as some people seem to put it.....i'm not saying this in a bad way....rebeccajo, devilette and a few others on VJ have taught me ALOT and i feel i've grown knowledgewise, i never dreamed i could actually give advice ..i thought i would always be the one asking for it.

I dont claim to know everything there is about Immigration, far from it. I'm still learning, and will continue to learn.

So if it wasnt for the older members on VJ i dont know what i would have done without them.

So thank you, rebeccajo, devilette and the others who's name's i cant remember

Maria

I also don't feel the divide. But then again I don't go much into the K1 or AOS so maybe I am missing it.

I don't have an idea of dialogue really, besides maybe some stuff in the filers thread that would suggest it, so I can only say from my limited perspective.

Just know that I am not pointing any fingers because I haven't seen many conversations relating to old vs new people but tips I'd say when dealing with it...

To remember the feeling of being separated and being so frustrated at times in the process, while talking to newbies. I remember when I was new, I was jealous of the people who already were together while I was going through a stressful process.

But I did respect the people who were here before me or who had more knowledge than me, though when I joined there were just about 1000 members on VJ. I am member # 1020 or something so there weren't even many people who could help me with my specific process( New Delhi consulate, etc). But those who could help were valuable! They mostly aren't even around anymore though.

Anyway, I would hope people would appreciate help given by people who have already gone through the process and are up to date on things. And also would hope some grace is extended to the newer people who are probably very frustrated right now learning about the process.

rebeccajo and devilette, YuandDan, Dr LHA among others, can back up their words with links to USCIS sites and memos or carefully point to previous experiencs. aussiewench was the same way. It has nothing to do with how long they've been here and everything to do with the fact that they got game.

They won't be around forever, but I hope that the standard doesn't become 'here's a random paragraph begotten by proctological extraction that contradicts what I say, why do you question me?'

I tend to hold a higher regard for those who've been members here longer...especially the ones who've dedicated themselves to helping those just getting started on their visa journey. It seems natural to be apprehensive towards newer members until familiarity takes place.

Stina - I do remember. Horribly. What it was like to be away from my husband. I'm sure you do too.

I think you can also agree with me on this - once they are here - there are other issues we face as couples. Would you agree with me that it is almost impossible to describe (to those still separated) what those issues feel like? I find it really difficult to express to those still separated that my life isn't all sunshine and roses just because my wonderful husband and I are now together.

I also think maybe they think I am nuts because I still spend time on the site - like maybe he and I ought to be off in an isolated corner, mussing up the sheets all the time?

I learn a lot from new members. I learn a lot everyday. I learned two new things at WORK today. And one of them was from a lady who has been a legal secretary like - 20 more years than I have?

Lorelle used to talk about how much she actually CARED about other peoples cases. I feel much the same way. If an older member steps in to 'correct' a post - it's not because they want to 'be right' all the time. It's because they don't want someone to make a mistake.

I know, I know.....everyone should be responsible for their own case and look for more than one confirmation that something is right or wrong. But if there were no posts (from newer or older members - makes no difference) where information was righted, what would be the odds of CONFIRMING the correct answer?

Who else then? I must admit I don't hang out in the "filers" threads so I don't know who the trouble makers are there.

I find it somewhat laughable that people who have been on here a bit should be put out to pasture for the young and fresh people. Experience means a lot IMHO. I personally have over 8 years of experience with USCIS in depth and got my first Visa long enough ago (14 years) to have a SS card that has the words "INS" on it instead of DHS, and to remember when they didn't bother putting photos on visa stamps.

Should I feel bad if I sometimes answer people's questions with an air of "authority" (I can only assume this is what I do after I've been told I bully people into thinking that my opinion is the only one that counts).

I personally don't think there is a divide between old and new members, I think there are a few new members who are cocky and think they know everything, when they don't. This causes friction when that person posts wrong information, which is then corrected by one of the "old guard". In reality it has got nothing to do with "old" vs "new" but everything to do with those people having attitude problems and not wanting to accept that they are wrong.

Maybe the "old guard" come on a little strong in some cases, but that's because we've probably had the same argument a 100 times before, and it gets a little old having to put these whipper snappers in their place.

In conclusion: Ban 'em.

I know you weren't asking in a bad way....that 'see above' was an attempt at banter

I never said they can't work together, but I do think that since life moves on...the newbies of today will be the 'seasoned vets' of tomorrow & they'll be dishing out posts based on their experiences. And I think that with life and responsibilities and whatnot, one cannot really maintain the level of attention to immigration, especially when there's no dog in the fight. Think about it...take me for instance....obviously I'm just starting the process and technically a noob, but at the same time, I've read craploads. And I spend copious amts of time here. Because D's not here, my nights are free, yadda yadda. Once D gets here, things will change. And when we have kids, that's going to usurp a lot of my time. So as much as I say now that I will most certainly give back to VJ....it's not a job & real life obviously will come first. So there's a limit to my time.

But there will be a whole crop of the class of 08, 09, 10 who have lived to tell the tale, so VJ will go on. And at SOME point, I do think people would start ignoring my advice because I'm 'too far out of it' and because there are others with more relevant experience. And since this is not my job & I'm not going to ever put myself in a position of UPL, it'll be fine with me....

Have you ever thought about working for an immigration lawyer? I think you'd be well suited for it, Becca. And I mean that with no disrespect.



Everyone seems to be mad...it's on both sides....why just the other day I was told 'just because you filed you think you know immigration?'

Just because someone's new to the process does not mean they're gormless & I happen to think a lot of newbies are crapped on. It works both ways.

I used to not like you! Now I respect you, you given back tenfold to VJ. Ain't that crazy talk?



You're welcome.




It all comes down to me being able to back up my posts with facts. If not, I don't post. Seems simple, but hey.....nothing is simple on VJ.

Yes, I get that a lot. Its probably because I'm an opinionated bastard who doesn't sugar coat things for people.





This is why I don't post in forums like K-1 or removing conditions: Because I have no experience in those fields. Unlike some people I don't feel I can answer every question posted about immigration.

There's only one immigration lawyer in WV and he's in Morgantown. I would love to work for an immigration lawyer but I ain't movin' up there!

I'm impressed when I see newer members WANT to learn - and wanting to help others. I enjoy their input and it's good to see them reaching out.

I'm still learning. A lot. Everyday. Every single time I read here, I pick up something new.

I probably won't always be around here either. I take spells where I'm here more often - other times I'm not. One reason I have been here (this long) was some of my friends with longer journeys than mine.

Of course the guard will change. That's to be expected. But I've not stayed around here with a "what's in it for me" expectation. I stayed because I wanted to contribute. I hope those who follow me - with that same feeling of wanting to return what they gained - well, that they won't experience some of what I have.

Or maybe they should. Because I guess I do continue to come - because those I've made friends with and those I have helped - because that outweighs the bad.

Are you really a doctor?

I know you will take this wrong, but I will try to explain so as not to offend. It's about delivery.

Here, you imply anyone who has a spouse/kids here shouldn't be on VJ anymore. That when YOUR hubby is here, you will be offline, doing more important things. Not all jobs require 'work' all day long. Or 'doing laundry'.

We have lives too, but some of it we choose to spend here & help newer members. As long as I read up on immigration & am useful & current, I will continue to post here. And hopefully, help some people. I've got a year of VJ under my belt + IMBRA + K1 interview + AOS approved + an RFE + CSC transfer + Cincinnati biometrics. I think know I have something to offer here, beyond bantering in OT.

Just my .02.

Definitely agreed. I don't see it so much as a perceived divide as there are just a few defensive people out there who want to hold onto their beliefs because it suits their situation much better than the true information does.

I've learned a lot since I joined the site, and I want to contribute as much as I've been given - but I'm definitely going to accept when I'm wrong or not post when I don't know anything about the subject. Really, it's all about the attitude that you bring to the table. I think both sides are able to contribute to the overall discussion, as long as they can both admit that they're willing to learn and adjust to the changes that are constantly taking place.

Not a medical doctor, if that's what you mean.

Lord High Anorak, PhD at your service.

*looks around for my GED*

*runs and hides from Doc*

Well that's got to be worth at least a Gold Watch.

I believe that delivery and taking things too personally could be a major factor in a good portion of the arguments seen on VJ lately.

To clarify the term "personally" ~ I do NOT condone nor expect anyone to take personal attacks, but when someone says something as simple as "that's silly" it does not need to go into 6 rounds of boxing. (just an example here folks - not taken from any real topics/posts.

I would also remind people to use the ignore tool on the forums:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...amp;CODE=ignore

It is useful to just ignore the people that bother you. If they are really saying things that are bad then other people will see it too and ignore them as well. Also please use the members feedback tool in the pull down menu on each persons name in the topic. You can rate them up and down and it helps us spot problems (in addition to the normal report the post tool).

Becca, I've always respected your view on things, even if we didn't agree and I really appreciate all the help you've given to me as well as others.

May I ask, do you feel a bit of resentment towards the fact that some people use VJ as a playground? Or a place to mingle socially?

Maybe you all are taking this VJ site way to personal....

Yes, perhaps we should all "get a life" eh? Thanks for stopping by.

Resentment? Heavens no.

The only problem I have with the 'playground' is when someone doesn't play nice. You know - "Everything I Need to Know I Learned in Kindergarten"?

If that book didn't come with illustrations, I think many of us skimmed over it.

I didn't say people 'shouldn't' be on VJ anymore...but imo a single person waiting for his/her honey to get here will have more disposable time than one with his/her spouse here, maybe if they have a kid or two, two jobs....sorry, I can't see the disposable time being equal.