Exactly. Sometimes you need to know when to walk away. I think Dee is thinking the way she should be, as a mother. Maybe if she didn't have kids she might be willing to deal with this longer, but it seems to me that she is thinking about her kids and how this is affecting them also which I think is great.

Its true that its hard to adapt to living in this country, but that doesn't mean that he can just sit back and not put forth any effort.

That is another thread isn't it? However, to every problem, there lies a solution.

Walking away from your husband after just a month or so of him being here is a good idea?

Yes, under certain circumstances it is a good idea.

Thats a blanket statement which I have never said, so don't put words in my mouth. My advice is given for the specific situation at hand. Dee isn't simply just walking away or throwing in the towel, if you read her posts you can clearly see there is no effort coming from his side at all. As Peezey said before, Dee is not the one that needs to change, he does.

If he doesn't change or doesn't want to change, what other choice does she have?

You didn't? The words were out of your mouth. And sometimes, your mate will give no effort or less than you and at other times he will work harder.

The choice is to work on the situation. If he is not putting forth effort, then that is something else that needs to be worked on. I am speaking in general, not for the case you are speaking on.

I said "sometimes you need to know when to walk away" I didn't say "walking away after a month is a good idea". Those are 2 very different statements and my advice is being given for *this* particular situation at hand.

Like I said, to work on a situation requires both parties to put in effort. If one party is not willing to put forth any effort then it won't work.

Its not acceptable for a mate not put forth any effort and if that is something you are willing to accept that is your choice. However I would not ever accept to be with someone that didn't give me 100% everyday, which is exactly what I would do for him.

I know more people wish they were like you and your husband; sounds perfect

And like I said, at times in most any given relationship, people give and take at different levels. Different levels are needed at times. For example, I gave a lot more time getting my situated when he first came. Now he is putting for more effort.

With the up and downs of life, I find it hard to give 100% to important people at all times.

Look this is not about being perfect. This is about learning from mistakes. I was divorced. I gave my ex 100% everyday and he didnt even give half that. I accepted it for a long time and then I started to resent him for it. Its a no win situation and I won't repeat that mistake again.

Every woman on this forum should be with a man that values her everyday and that gives her 100% everyday. If you accept less than that, then you are short changing yourself.

In a perfect world.

I would like to know what 100% means to you. What-cooking, cleaning, being supportive, working, caring for children? Not all, but a definition just to get an idea.

Putting in 100% to get him a visa is not what I mean by putting a 100% in a marriage. I worked very hard to get my fiance here, harder than most but I don't feel as if he owes me anything for that. Marriage is hard work, daily work, that never stops. If things are already this bad and its only been a month, I can't imagine where it will go from there.

It can mean different things to different people, so my preferences are not important here. Everyone woman has different expectations of thier mate, so whatever you feel is 100% is all that matters.

Not every problem can be worked out, and knowing when to walk away is important.

Compromise is key, too. My husband agreed to marry me knowing that he needs to work at his relationship with my children. I agreed to marry him knowing that he is the only son in a family where the mother and father are deceased and that he needs to support his sisters until they are married. I'm sure that won't be easy for me 100% of the time especially if it means he has to fly there when problems occur and I'm sure it won't be easy for him 100% of the time especially when it means he is dealing with 3 (4 counting the cat) women who will be pms'ing at various times of the month.

I knew what you meant. I am not familiar with your case. My visa was approved in a pretty good time, but I still think I put forth 100% getting him here as well. My 100% was what I did. He also put 100% in coming here; he is here. He made a way. All I did was mail paperwork to DHS and to him.

I agree with you. Things should not be that extreme in a month. I think my POV (just like yours) is that it is hard work. I work hard everyday trying to get along with my husband. He is a strong minded person just like I am. All I am saying is that a month may be a little too early to walk away or throw in the towel.

God forbid if cheating occurred or worse things we all know could happen that may have been mentioned on VJ before. Most of the opinion would be to end the marriage.

My grandparents have been married 60 years. My grandmother married him at 16. When he was away in the army, she found out that he cheated on her several times. Well, she stayed with him and they have had a perfect marital relationship ever since. Sometimes things may appear awful at first and then in the long run, wind up perfectly or as they should.

Women have choices, now, that they didn't have 60 years ago.

She had choices too. She made the perfect choice. She was not pregant. She did not have her first child until may many years later. She was very young. She could have gone home to her parents at any given time.

Actually you are familiar with my case, but we can save that for another day/time. I'm not exactly your favorite person on VJ. Regardless, everyone is different in what they can handle. I'm pretty sure everyone knows that this is hard to deal with but its up to each person to decide how much they can handle. No one in my family is divorced, except me so its not exactly something that is accepted in my family. However I know if given the choice all of my the women in my family would have gotten a divorce because they all had miserable marriages.

Things don't wind up perfectly, the women just become doormats. I look at my marriages of aunts/uncles in my family and ofcourse I would like to think things ended up perfectly because they are still married. However I know in my heart that its not because I know exactly what they went through. No one needs to settle in this day and age.

One of the best statements on MENA ever!




How can anyone explain the tangibles of something so intangible? We all know what our 100% means. You can't list it out like a shopping list.

Something that would be good for dee, or anyone facing this to do, is to go somewhere alone, get a coffee or whatever helps you think, and write down some lists.
1) What do I want
2) What do I think is wrong here
3) How I think we can fix it
4) What am I willing to do if we can't.

True! I know who you are. I said I am unfamiliar with your visa case, not you. Somethings do not wind up perfectly. Somethings do. Example-my grandparents and she was no doormat either. Never settle. Divorce should be a last resort. Not just 'it is not working after a month', divorce.

I find writing out and rewriting really helps!

oooh I just noticed your signature link to the wedding pics! Lovely just lovely!

I agree divorce should be a last resort. However marriage is not something to rush into either as many have on this forum. I think the OP knows if she is ready to resort to that and if she comes to that realization after a month, than that is her choice because she knows what is best for her and her family.

I see so much focus on divorce being last resort but not enough focus on establishing a solid foundation before jumping into marriage.

My compter is acting up now. I posted this same thing 5x. Here goes again.

I can write a book on my needs and how my husband can meet them. I also can express it.



THIS IS THE BEST THING YOU HAVE SAID

I'm out. Just wanted to post my opinion for a bit.

Thanks, I guess

girl you are on a roll today!

no thanks is in order..just my opinion again

Well what do I have to do get a cookie!!!!

awwww....i miss the old VJ days.
One pre-wedding dress cookie for JP coming up....

mmmmmmm...cookie. I miss the old days too

Here's something to chew on...no matter how long you both have known each other and how many times you may have visited, the harsh reality for most if not all MENA spouses is that they have NEVER been to the US and you have never experienced each other in this culture. So...........that being said, the first month here is a true test of the relationship in my opinion.

Well its WED Im going to join the YMCA tonite... In reading the threads tonite I feel sad. I wish all of us the strength and understanding to get through all of these difficult times. I am so happy to have this supportive site...

Good luck with the Y! What a good thing to do for yourself.

I have to say I don't know what I would do without this site either. We all may fight on occasion but in the end we normally have each other's backs.

Oh, thanks! There aren't many of me, mostly of my sisters, since it's my camera, but the Charlie's Angels-style pic is probably my favorite from the whole day.

A thread was locked again today after such a long time. I wonder why

Is it Thursday yet? We are going to see the play 'Wicked' tomorrow. I already prepared him for it. He saw the movie 'THe Wizard of OZ' and 'The Wiz'. To my husbands friends that he talks to, and that check out this site, it is a secret. Don't mention it.

Why would your husbands friends be checking out this site???

because they are Moroccan and live here and get interesting immigration news like most people..we have many connections with new immigrants.. and mutual connections through this site as well

I don't understand why the nappy thread was closed. I agree with the person who was offended, if sooooo many people have coarse and kinky hair, why say the guy needs to go to an african american barber? Clearly more than just black people have coarse and kinky hair.

Imus got canned for assuming black girls have nappy hair.

I thought it was due to his reference to a basketball team as "nappy headed hos" or something like that. Kind of a different thing in my opinion.

Not everyone has always used that term nappy as a bad word. Look at the first line in Stevie Wonder's song "I Wish"

"Lookin' back on when I was a little nappy-headed boy."

Should those lyrics be changed?

I don't think white people should be able to determine what black people find offensive or not. If african american people say something colloquially amongst themselves but find it offensive when non-african americans say it, then why do we care? Why not respect the fact it's offensive and move on?

Also, just because Imus added "ho's" into his stupid remark doesn't mean the nappy headed part wasn't offensive. If you watched what the girls said, nappy headed was just as offensive as the ho's part. They specifically said things like "my hair isn't nappy and how would he know anyway?"

Imus got canned for calling them hoes compared to the delicate little flowers of whatever team they owned. I don't think it was 'nappy' that was doing the offensive work.

'Nappy' can be used as an insult, but it wasn't in that thread. (Remember Napster? Took its name from the guy's nickname for having wild curly hair.) If your hair is kinky and curly and fragile, best off with a stylist or barber who knows what they're doing with it. And the ones that know what they're doing are the ones whose customer base deals with it, whether the base is African-American or wealthy curlyhaired women (i.e., Devacurl)

You can call around and ask if they have someone who knows what they're doing with curly hair, but I suspect that might be harder for men.

By Zine Magubane | April 12, 2007
WHEN DON IMUS called the Rutgers University basketball team a bunch of "nappy-headed ho ' s" he brought to the fore the degree to which black women's hair has served as a visible marker of our political and social marginalization.

Nappy, a historically derogatory term used to describe hair that is short and tightly coiled, is a preeminent example of how social and cultural ideas are transmitted through bodies. Since African women first arrived on American shores, the bends and twists of our hair have became markers of our subhuman status and convenient rationales for denying us our rightful claims to citizenship.

Establishing the upper and lower limits of humanity was of particular interest to Enlightenment era thinkers, who struggled to balance the ideals of the French Revolution and the Declaration of Independence with the fact of slavery. The 1789 Declaration of the Rights of Man and Citizen did not discriminate on the basis of race or sex and had the potential to be applied universally. It was precisely because an appeal to natural rights could only be countered by proof of natural inequality that hair texture, one of the most obvious indicators of physical differences between the races, was seized upon. Nappy hair was demonstrable proof of the fact that neither human physiology nor human nature was uniform and, therefore, that social inequalities could be justified.

Saartjie Baartman, a South African "bushwoman," was exhibited like a circus freak in the Shows of London between 1810 and 1815. The leading French anatomist of the day, George Cuvier, speculated that Baartman might be the "missing link" between the human and animal worlds because of her "peculiar features" including her "enormous buttocks" and "short, curling hair."

In "Notes on the State of Virginia," Thomas Jefferson reflected on why it would be impossible to incorporate blacks into the body politic after emancipation. He concluded it was because of the differences "both physical and moral," chief among them the absence of long, flowing hair.

continued at the think above....

If you watched the young women and listened to their interviews, "nappy headed" was equally as offensive to them, and many other african american women as hoes was. I posted an article. It's not hard to find this stuff from just a few months ago. There is really no argument about it. It's considered highly offensive for anyone to use the term who doesn't own it. I don't really care if some idiotic 18 year old's friends called him Napster, that only means they are ridiculously ignorant white kids that have no clue.

Eh, fair enough, but does someone's wife have the right to describe her husband's hair as nappy? I don't know but I hadn't thought of the term as in the same category as other racially-charged words. There's a children's book called Nappy Hair. So it seems to me to vary a bit with context and no one seemed to me to be mean-spirited when discussing barbers.

But in any case, if you want curly hair cut properly, go to someone who knows what they're doing with it. Because people used to cutting straight hair will butcher it.

I think the point is, when someone says it's offensive, who are we to question it? Obviously most people in the thread didn't find it offensive or know that it would be offensive, hence the repetitive use of the term. But when someone says hey, this is offensive to me, they should be given the respect of us shutting up, not fighting with her and telling her she's wrong and to chill out and to be prepared for a backlash. And IMO, a woman here calling her husband's hair nappy is inappropriate to me since no one here is married to an african american, no one here has a husband who's history includes this term.

Saying you are offended and implying someone is a racist are 2 different things. If that person had merely said they were offended that would have been fine. But to go off saying people are making racist comments is wrong. That is offensive to me so who are you to question that?

I just got connected a little while ago (missed the whole Barbershop III thread), and had to chuckle at this:



I did go back and read, though. And it's sad that aj1 was offended by some comments. It's also too bad that her own personal truth couldn't be acknowledged fully in this forum (for whatever reasons I'm not sure..........too many opinions in one room, jumping to conclusions - either side, defensiveness-either side, or attitude-either side).

I, personally, didn't find it offensive and I even thought that the context of the conversation was clear enough that the intention to offend just wasn't there. (We all know that doesn't mean that noone WILL get offended.) That is just the way it goes.

Caladan was wise to bypass the whole offensiveness issue and address the topic - shopping around to find someone with experience cutting thick, curly, or whatever type of hair you have will be worth the search!

Last, but not least, I would like to say to aj1 - I am sorry that you felt offended.

how about gelato ooooooooohhhhhhhhhh I miss italian gelato. I wish I could get hubby to bring some with him

Just because you are ignorant of the fact that it is racist to use the term, doesn't mean it isn't. Why did you have to tell her to CHILL OUT? Why were you so quick to discount her feelings about it all? Your intentions weren't bad, but she was offended and you turned it around on her.

Peezy - I am surprised by your comments chastizing someone for being rude. I have seen where you have offended people by your comments, but you disregard their feelings by calling them idiots.

That being said, I do think you have made many helpful posts with some really good information.