I've been poking around on this forum looking for posts related to personal experiences couples have had when neither is fluent in the native language of the other. I have found some posts, but decided to start a new thread anyway. I'm particularly interested in experiences anyone would like to share about after their fiance/fiancee arrives.

First, my own (limited) experiences so far:

When Natasha and I met online, I spoke no Russian at all and she spoke English at a very basic level. Understanding spoken English is a challenge for her though. She used a program called Magic Goody to translate my English chat text to Russian, and her Russian chat text to English. We talked several times this way before I knew she was using a software translator. Being a very quick typist, I quickly purchased and installed PROMT and we began chatting exclusively in Russian simply because there was less 'lag' in the conversation. This had a very pleasant side-effect I'll discuss later.

Software translation can be very frustrating initially, and Natasha and I had our fair share of misunderstandings, but we have learned how to choose our words and phrasing to maximize the likelihood that the intended meaning of our words survives translation by the software. It's not perfect, by any means, but it is a reasonable substitute (for now) to being able to speak directly in the language of the other. Web cameras are also a great help because so much can be communicated through expressions and body language to accentuate the words we type.

Before I traveled to Russia to meet Natasha in person, I began studying Russian using Pimsleur Conversational Russian audio CDs. I found this very frustrating, although I did learn some basics - yes, no, hello, goodbye, please, thank you, understand, I, you, not, etc. I apparently don't learn well using purely audio based methods. In total, I studied this way for about 4 weeks, maybe 4 times a week, then I went to Russia.

In Russia, Natasha taught me more words (man, woman, boy, girl, market, bus, etc) but we relied upon her basic English to communicate. It was very frustrating sometimes, and if our day was going to be complex, we would use the software translator before we headed out to discuss our plans in detail for the day. My Russian responses were usually limited to yes, no, I understand, I don't understand, but we managed to spend a truly glorious 3 and a half weeks together there. Much loved by her non-English speaking family was the game "Let's have the American try and pronounce Russian words". We played this game during many meal times spent around the dining table. Someone would point to something in the kitchen and then say the Russian word for it, which I would then attempt to mimic. It was hilarious!

Since I have returned, I have decided to go as full-tilt into Russian language study as I can manage. I purchased Level 1 and 2 from Rosetta Stone and I study 3 or 4 times each week, with a goal of completing one lesson per week. Often, I will study while chatting with Natasha, and we will turn on the microphones so that she can listen and correct my pronunciation. Anyone interested (in Rosetta Stone particularly) can check my progress on my website (it's linked from my profile here on VJ). I post blog reports after each lesson and I have my grades posted in a separate section as well. I study from the 'home school' edition of the software, where the program directs my study and my progress is based on my performance, and each lesson must be passed three times where different things are emphasized (Rosetta Stone calls this the comprehensive mode). Chatting in Russian using a software translator made me at least familiar with the Cyrillic alphabet and taught me to recognize a lot of words by sight. Now that I'm learning to speak Russian with Rosetta Stone, I am finding it relatively 'easy' to pick up how the letters are pronounced. This is the pleasant side-effect of chatting in written Russian I alluded to earlier.

Learning Russian is important to me, because Natasha's Russian heritage is important to me. Eventually I wish to be able to speak directly with her parents and her family in their native language. When I was there and I asked her parents for permission to marry Natasha, we relied upon the software translator as we sat at the computer, with Natasha occasionally adding something to the conversation if she thought something was unclear. This worked at the time, but it is not what I desire with regard to speaking with her family.

I know I have, most probably, 5 to 7 months before Natasha receives her visa and I travel to Russia to bring her and her daughter to this country. I will use that time to continue my studies of the Russian language and I hope to have completed the bulk of the Level 1 material by that time. I know this will put me at no more than the advanced beginner level, and even after Natasha arrives it is my plan to continue my studies and finish Level 1 and 2 during the first 18 months or so of our being together. This will, I hope, take me to an intermediate level of Russian, and Natasha will take me to whatever level of fluency I am capable of.

Natasha may take English classes (something like ESL) and she may not - she has taken classes before and she believes that simply being here and immersed in English (and with me as her guide) will be all she requires. We will play this by ear and see how it goes. She also believes that her daughter will best learn by just being here, but I'm not as convinced of this. I know that Vika (Natasha's daughter) studies some English at her school now, so perhaps Natasha will be proven right. She usually is!

Here are two comments from other posts on this forum, which I liked and which I think are relevant:

From Jewel12:
"I have a hard time understanding how you can fall in love with a person if you don't speak a common language fluently, but there's lots of things I don't understand, so I better shut up smile.gif"

From bready99:
"This question is pretty simple to answer for me. There is more to loving each other than speaking a common language fluently. If it was that simple (just language) then there would not be so many divorces or break-ups in this country (U.S.A.) or even in the world.

To answer the question for us, it is the way we look at each other, the way we treat each other, the way she laughs or smiles at the things I do. It is how we are able to hug each other after being so frustrated with some of the things we do or say or can't say to each other. We communicate in many ways with each other and, for the most part, it is all enjoyable. We do talk to each other and we do help each other in many ways. I think being in love is all about how each person "completes" the other person. It's not just about talking and it's not all about sex, it's all about how well two people are able to relate to each other and feel good in that relationship. Love is all about feelings and emotions and how two people are able to share and communicate those feelings. Speaking a similar language is just one way of communicating those emotions. I think those of you who have difficulty understanding how two people can be in love without speaking a common language fluently will also have difficulty in understanding those people who can fall in love at first sight, but that's another topic."

Bready99, thank you. You said that so much better than I could ever hope to. Love is very much a (and I hate to use a much-overused term) synergistic thing. When everything is right, it is much more something you feel than something you say. Words are very poor instruments for communicating what we have inside of us, in our hearts. Communication is important, and those of us who have chosen a mate where a language is not shared have a tough road ahead, there is no denying that. But if our hearts are in the right place, if we are truly committed and dedicated to one another, then language shouldn't be an issue. Language is a learned thing, not an innate thing like love is (for me, anyway).

Ok, I guess I'll wrap up my first real post here on VJ. I've lurked for some time now and added a short reply here or there, but I've never delved into anything so verbosely before. Agree with me, disagree with me, even flame me, but if you have something relevant on this subject to share I'd very much welcome your words.

Kevin

Russian grammar is of critical importance to express anything beyond basic constructions. As Rosetta Stone does not teach grammar, it will greatly limit what you will be able to understand.

How are you studying the grammar? I highly recommend the Princeton course - http://www.princeton.edu/russian/

Try to use Russian handwritting if you can to work out the exercises.

Declensions in Russian are not intuitvie to English speakers, you really do need to learn them though. Far more important than vocabulary, which you will pick up anyway.

Taking university courses helped me more than anything else.

Hi Kevin

I am from Denmark and married to a USC.
And amazed about your interest of learning you fiancee's language to be able to communicate with her and famely.

When we waited for my K-1 visa to be approved I started to learn my husband a little bit danish.
Then I suddenly realized that maybe it was better that I first of all would study more English in order to emprove my skills before moving to USA and start my new life. So I took a course in Denmark.
It seems to me to be more importent that I have a good way to communicate with my husband and the americans and also to be more secure when the time comes to apply for a job.
First I thought that my tourist English was enough for me over here. But I can tell it is not.
So I started on another English course on our local library here in USA to learn more the american terms and how to behavior my English language when being with american people.

It is very importent that your fiancee is not feeling isolated and only dependent on you.
Even more importent it is good for her child to emprove the English too.
My son at 16 years old had less English in school in Denmark and now he is the person who have to graduate someday and are forced to study very much to even understand and answer the questions in his new school.

After we arrived here in USA we are now more relaxed to learn my husband our native language.
And actually easier for him now because he can read our bodylanguage sometimes and able to understand us anyway.

This is ofcause only my opinion, but I couldn't resist to tell you about our story about the language barrier there for sure will be not only now for you and her, but in the coming future too.
Don't wait or delay anything in hope about that it will be easier when she just arrive in your country.

Very much good luck to you with everything.

Anette

To be honest, I haven't considered what would be best to study after I complete the Rosetta Stone courses, other than to learn from Natasha through daily conversation, but I had thought about university classes. Omaha isn't that big of a town but the local college does have some classes in Russian. As far as grammar goes, I have no idea. Rosetta Stone touts that you will learn grammar 'naturally, as a child does' but I too am a little skeptical. Of course, my grammar in ENGLISH isn't all that great either!

For handwriting, I have discovered that it is very helpful if I write out the words as I learn and practice them with Rosetta Stone, even though I have no idea what the 'proper' way of forming the individual letters is.

As for declensions - I'll have to look this word up! I'm not even certain what you mean, but I will find out.

Thank you VERY MUCH for you ideas and for you comments, I sincerely appreciate them.

I completely agree with you - although I know she and Vika will spending a lot of their time with me after they first arrive, the last thing I want is for them to perceive that they are completely and totally reliant upon only me. Natasha is a pretty strong-willed woman, though, and is very active in the Russian bride web sites and forums, and is seeking out Russian women in the area that she can connect with.

Like you, Natasha wishes to learn English quickly because she desires strongly to work and be gainfully employed. If she's not learning quickly enough to suit her own goals, I'm sure she'll be very receptive to taking English language classes.

Thank you for your thoughts and experiences, and if anything else occurs to you, please don't hesitate to share it here. Knowledge is power, and I can use all that I can get.

Welcome, Kevin, and thanks for jumping on the forum and getting straight to business. That's awesome!

I hate to burst your bubble, but you're trying WAY TOO HARD to learn Russian. The fact of the matter is, you're trying to be fluent in her language so you can have a better relationship and understanding and all the selfless things people do for someone they love. That's great! But, reality is, once she's here, you're going to use Russian about a fifth of the time, and then less and less after that. The only time you're going to use it is when you talk about Russian stuff, practice Russian together, talk about her family or try to really understand something that you guys need to work out. The rest of the time, she's going to be forced to use English, and that's only going to get more and more frequent the longer she stays here. So, learn what you can, but you're never really going to "need" Russian the way you're setting yourself up to use it.

Now, I can tell from your post you're a pretty literary guy and have a pretty good grasp (freaking excellent, actually) on the English language. Remember, you're learning Russian to communicate, not to write a thesis. (I'm sure that's where you'd like to be some day, but for the time being, you're trying to communicate... it's a much simpler process) Basic communication isn't done with grammatical rules and conjugations, it's done with phrases and words. You're transmitting your idea and trying to get someone to understand it. They're, in turn, transmitting their idea back and trying to get you to understand it. That's it.

Let's say you have seven months until your fiancee's interview and subsequent arrival. If you try to "learn" Russian in the hopes of being fluent and reading Tolstoy in the native language, when she arrives, you'll be able to communicate in elaborate sentences and understand complex story lines. But, when she asks you "shto ti dumaish?" You're going to be lost because she's asking you in a familiar way, the way a wife would talk to a husband, not the way a writer is going to present his story to an audience, or a professor to a class.

I recommend learning all the basics, and just building from there. If you try to approach learning as an adult, you're going "backwards". Remember, you're like a 3rd grader. Act like a 3rd grader.

I'm super biased here because I learned Russian (the basic stuff that I know, anyway) by talking with Russian women, memorizing grammer, then honing my skills with Pimsleur. So I'm of that (the Pimsleur) camp. I can tell you though, when you're in a situation with native speakers and native speakers only, quoting poetry and using the finest of words is no substitute for knowing what "skolka eto stoit?" means.

My wife knew a fair bit of English upon her arrival and has picked up more LIGHTNING fast. To truly understand her though, I need to know some Russian. Usually, those are the curse words and the simple questions, simple answers, and the true feelings and expressions people share when they're in close quarters and intimate with each other. You don't need to know things like the proper conjugation of the verb "to throw" but you do need to know things like "again, after, when, wait, I'm hungry, wow!, I miss you, shower, call, cold," and how to say all of those things to her, and (not completely necessary) how they change when you're talking about someone else, be it her father or her daughter. You'll also be amazed at the disparity between the swiftness of her daughter's communication developments and your own. (And probably hers as well.)

Keep that in mind when you're learning conjugations and grammatical rules.

COMMUNICATE!!! Think in the target language. Know what you want to say and get your idea across. Don't sweat if you're saying it or pronouncing it correctly, just make yourself understood.

GOOD LUCK!!!!

Ah... I almost forgot, you really need to know words like "kapusta" and "apilsinii" maybe even some "yaitsa" and various other food items. You'll be using those almost daily. You definitely want to be able for her to get what she wants to eat. (The first step in calming a grumpy woman!)

Think about things you use in your daily life and try to learn those words. I even have post-its with Russian/English translations all over my house. I bought a children's "first words" book off Amazon, and it's awesome for household and daily things.

I have countless Russian books and tapes, CDs, programs, etc. But, the only ones I really use are:

Lonely Planet Russian Phrase Book (By far the best printed resource I've found for Russian language and culture. If I could have only one thing for Russian language, it would be this book!) http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Lonely-Phras...6720&sr=8-1

Oxford (or similar) Russian Dictionary (You need to have a small Russian/English dictionary both of you can use for "point and grunt") http://www.amazon.com/Oxford-New-Russian-D...6880&sr=1-4

The First Thousand Words in Russian (Excellent for learning words in the home and on the street.) http://www.amazon.com/First-Thousand-Words...6938&sr=1-3

Russian A Language Map (You probably know all the words on here already, but it's a handy little tool.) http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Language-Map...049&sr=1-19

And you already have the Pimsleur set. Even if you don't like the pimsleur method, I highly encourage it because it will help your "thinking" in the target language more than you realize. You may not think you're "getting it" but it encourages your brain to "think" in Russian instead of thinking in English and then translating it over.

Another resource you may want to check out is The Quick and Dirty Guide to Learning Languages Fast. This book is written by an ex-special forces guy who is certified in seven languages. His approach is one that stresses understanding rather than fluency and will significantly improve your Russian skills in the least amount of time possible. Worth the money! http://www.amazon.com/Quick-Dirty-Guide-Le...7406&sr=1-1

One thing you may or may not be doing already is listening to Russian music and watching Russian movies/TV. Try something like YouTube and watch a few Via Gra videos. If they can't help (and motivate) you.... nothing can!

To the point, Slim! Motivation is the key concept of learning a language! And those girls can wake up a dead man!
To the topic starter:
you are up to a challenge a life long. Don't try to jump higher than you can - you will be able to understand each other on every day basis soon but for deeper conversations use the language of love! I am not being skeptical about your skills I am being pragmatic about the task - Russian has too much soul, and it takes much longer to grasp the soul than to learn grammar or drill words! Good luck with conversational, though!

You aren't like a third grader though. A third grader can understand far more complicated concepts than you can at this point. Sorry, just being honest. Learning a language as an adult is not the same as doing it as a child. A third grader learned these grammar rules slowly. You can open a book and learn them in a few weeks.

Declensions. This is a key point in Russian. The ending of a noun will change depending on what it is in a sentence. This is why you say "Мне нравится книга" or "Я люблю книгу." Мне and Я are the same word. Книга and книгу are also the same word. "Книга нравится мне" - does NOT mean the book likes me. These details are critically important to even basic understanding of Russian speech.

Russian adjectives and nouns pretty much always agree in case, number and gender. Gender is easy, but case is more confusing. It also can change the meaning of a sentence entirely.

Good luck - it isn't that hard to learn Russian. Stick with it, and add one of the princeton lessons I posted above to your daily routine. You will be surprised how much more you understand.

Once again I wish to thank everyone for their thoughts. I suspect the 'ideal' approach depends largely on the individual and is an amalgam of different portions of everything written here, by everyone!

Thanks for the definition of 'declension' - you saved me having to look it up. I'm not very far into Rosetta Stone yet, but have already noticed this about the Russian language. Rosetta Stone can be frustrating in that nothing is explained - you just look at pictures and written text and listen to spoken Russian and start figuring things out through trial and error, but the roots of the various forms of words have been relatively easy to spot so far.

My current nemesis is the word for 'bicycle'. My pronunciation of this word reminds me very much of Rob Schneider's attempted pronunciation of 'hippopotamus' in the movie 'Big Daddy'.

I honestly don't think I'm trying too hard to learn Russian though. It is important to me and when something is important to me I go after it with everything I have. That's how I found and won Natasha, after all. I may learn Russian from a 'fancy book larnin' perspective but at least I'll be able to communicate. Colloquialisms and vernacular will come later through normal conversation.

And thank you for making a good thread.
I think it's very importent to share these kind of things since we all first know what we should have done sometimes too late.
So very good to share before and after situations

Anette

My roommate from University moved to Denmark 8 years ago, and managed to learn Danish. As and adult, it isn't impossible. A mix of formal courses and casual converstation is the best approach.

Rosetta Stone is fine for building vocabularly, but I find it less than useless for studying a language
with a wildly different grammar from your native one. If you spoke French and were learning Italian, I could see it being more useful.

Most important thing - don't give up. Learning Russian is not that hard, and the more you learn, the more useful it will be. I wish I had studied more seriously sooner.

uhh when I see somebody is typing about my country I am all excited. It's not so often here.
Gramma in danish is very close to English actually. I know it because I can speak german too and know this is a kind of difficult.
So after 8 years it was possible to speak danish? Yes if you really want to learn something everything is possible

I loved Copenhagen - I've been there a few times. My friend began studying Danish as soon as he got there, within 3 years he was reasonably fluent.

It would be very nice to be walking around Tivoli this time of year...

OMG now I am getting high hair on my arms LOL
Yes Tivoli is very beatyful in summertime.
Actually I am not from Copenhagen, but from Jutland as we call the country side. I am 3 hours away from Copenhagen

How true! My grandparents immigrated to the USA from Byelorussia and I have been around people speaking the Russian language since I was in diapers, but I never became fluent. I know a lot of Russian words (mostly nouns) and phrases that I have picked up from my grandparents, mom, aunts, and other sources, but living in America since birth I never really had any incentive to become fluent in the Russian language (or any other language except English).

My Russian wife was an English teacher in Belarus and she was already quite fluent in English before we even met and married, so I have never really had any incentive to further my proficiency in Russian (and my Russian proficiency is poor).

My wife berates me constantly that I should learn at least one new Russian word every week, but I can't even manage that. I learn what I learn and do what I can. I'm 51 years old and I tell her, "You can't teach an old dawg new tricks!" However, with the few Russian words I do know, I often throw them into my sentences when I speak to her in English. It's a new language...I call it Russlish or Englissian. Sadly, it is more English than Russian. It is English with a little Russian sprinkled in and I've been speaking it since I was a little kid talking to my Byelorussian grandparents.

My advice to KGSodie...learn the Cyrillic alphabet to the point that you can read Russian words. Learn as many nouns as you can and sprinkle them into your English sentences and as time goes on you may attain some sort of proficiency level in the Russian language. Don't beat yourself up over it. Do what you can do. However, living in America it is much more of a necessity for your wife to learn English than it is for you to learn Russian.

Thanks for the personal insights, peejay! Since Natasha and I chat online in Russian now (via software translation) I always try and pronounce everything she writes. Some of the letters least common letters I still have to look up and some of the letters affect the pronunciation of other letters in ways I don't always predict correctly, but I find it helps anyway. Natasha corrects me when I'm wrong.

I think maybe I have given the wrong impression about why I wish to learn Russian and become as fluent as I can be - it is not something I need to do, it is something I wish to do. Because we will live in the USA I agree that Natasha will learn and become fluent in English, and our trips together back to Russia will only be for 2 or 3 weeks every year (or two), but who knows what the future holds? Natasha is a proud Russian and has no intention of seeking US citizenship, and after I retire there is the possibility that we will move to Russia to live. She is also giving up everything she knows to come here and be with me - her family (especially her sister - they are very close), her friends, her COUNTRY, her entire way of life. You could argue that life in the USA is better but it is not something I would state categorically. Life in the USA is different than life in Russia, and I wouldn't go any further than that. I don't want to change my Natasha, I want our lives to be joined. Part of that joining, for me, is to learn to speak Natasha's native language.

Keep the stories coming, though, I enjoy reading them very much, from everyone!

Kevin

Just my two bits, but you ought to urge your fiancee to begin taking English lessons NOW, not after she arrives.

As a single mom, she's probably accustomed to doing things on her own and has a strong sense of independence. Unless she's experienced long stretches of life outside Russia away from her native language, then she has no idea how isolated she'll feel when she arrives here. She'll be dependent upon you for everything, and as odd as it sounds this will sometimes lead to resentment, no matter how good a partner and provider you are.

There will be big, big hurdles for you both when she arrives, believe me the more that you can remove now the easier her transition (and yours) will be!

Good luck

I appreciate your comments, groovlstk, and I have suggested to Natasha that she take some English classes now, and offered to pay for them of course, but she has resisted so far. She spent 6 weeks in the USA last year, and her experience was that she learned far more in those 6 weeks about speaking English than she had in the English class. She actually speaks English very well (although she believes that she does not) even if her vocabulary might still be somewhat limited. It's understanding English when it is spoken to her that she still struggles with.

She reads this thread so she will find all of the comments and she will weigh them against her own experiences, and then she will do what she thinks is best, of course!

Kevin

Case endings are useless if you don't know what the words mean. Situational usage and context clues are always going to tell you if the man bites the dog or the dog bites the man. Sure, once you know the endings it's a lot easier to tell which one did which, but, when you're first attempting to grasp a new language better to understand and recognize root words that you'll encounter than being able to identify which case or tense they're in.




How many times are you going to need to say "velosipyed" to your fiancee? This isn't going to be a "normal" word that comes up in every day conversation. If you can't get it perfectly... SO WHAT??? Skip it, move on to the next one. (You'll never forget this word now because it's your nemesis. Til the day you die, you'll be able to recognize that funny Russian word for bike.) When you guys are talking about modes of transportation somewhere down the road (no pun intended) and you can't pronounce bike correctly, it'll be the one that pops up between a "masheena" and "gulat". (If you're from a town with no public trans. In the case where you have public trans, it may pop up between "gulat" and "avtobus" or a related public trans system.) Point is, you'll be able to tell what that funny sounding word is from the context of your conversation and the "missing" thing you don't know how to say.




This is spot-on! The single biggest mistake I made in my VJ was not having something for my wife to do when she got here. We (neither one of us) had anything "lined up" prior to her departure or after her arrival. She's just now (9 months after arrival) starting to get a "life of her own."

Concentrate on learning Russian language, but also concentrate on getting something for her to do that will smooth the transition. Great point groovlstk!

Well, you are never going to understand much at all just knowing nouns. I would argue that memorizing nouns is a waste of time, you will learn them anyway from reading and context. You can get by pointing at what you want. Studying dialogs is a good way to learn, but since Pimsleur does treat the grammar fully, it is better as a review. The textbook I used, Голоса, was good at having dialogs, along with questions to be answered in Russian about them.

If you are going to be putting in the time to learn, you might as well actually learn it instead of taking shortcuts. 2,000 hours is about enough time to speak Russian credibly.




If you like bicycling, it is pretty useful. I just said Я буду купить велосипед. Mine was stolen this year. Very different from saying ездить на велосипеде.

Russian verbs of motion have a lot of nuance. Going one way/round trip/by car/by foot changes the verb entirely. I still struggle with this. Taking a walking is not the same as walking to the store.

We have many activities planned to do together. During the school year, in addition to my regular full-time paying job, I also teach high school math. Natasha (and Vika) have expressed a desire to come to class with me and can amuse themselves on my laptop when class is too boring, and she also wishes to accompany me to my work. I have a very lax environment here so that is no problem. They are welcome to amuse themselves and hang out here all they like. Plenty of computers handy to keep them occupied, and watch movies on or whatever. Lunch together everyday! I like it! We will also learn the bus system together right away, and walk to the nearby stores together, so that she can have a degree of independence immediately.

Any other suggestions along this line would be greatly appreciated!

If he is going to pick up his fiancee in about 7 months, 10 hours a day studying should get him speaking credible Russian by the time he gets there.



No, it's not. But, taking a walking "na magazine" is going to be understood as "I'm fixin to go to the store on foot."


I totally agree with you, Russ, that taking the time to learn the language correctly is important to do. The OP simply does not have the time to do this before he goes, and in reality, most folks here on VJ will never need Russian the way we hope to use it. "I'm engaged to this smokin-hot Russian chick. I'm going to get fluent in Russian, that way I can always talk to her and really understand her and talk to her friends and family and whenever we go to Russia I'll be able to understand everyone and converse with them about everything. It'll be awesome. I'm going to study really hard and eventually I'm going to be pretty fluent because I love my old lady, and she's that important to me."

We all start with the best intentions, but aside from going to Russia once every three years or something like that, maybe we need to know if her mom is calling for her or if she's pi$$ed off at us, or if she likes to hear us say certain things in her language. Maybe we want to know what she's talking to her friends about, and most importantly.... what's she saying about me???

Truth is, our OP has a short few months and he wants to learn the most Russian he can. The most effective way to do that is to practice everyday words and phrases and varations on those. 7 months is a long time, but not when you're here and she's there, and nobody else you know speaks Russian to you.

I will agree since our OP is an adult, he can concentrate on grammar and correct usages a little more than just studying vocabulary words. However, I believe he'd be better off in his 7 months disreagarding "correctness" and boning-up on as much vocabulary (verbs, nouns, adverbs, adjectives, and the "special" Russian words like dermo, et al) and phrases as possible and "backfilling" on grammar and correct usage. The brain can only take in and retain so much, if it's full of endings and case usages, it'll automatically divert to "which ending is correct for the dative case? Oh $#!t, I just forgot how to say toilet. I know the right ending, but I forgot the root word."

If he can memorize it all... good for him! (I know I couldn't do it all, still don't have them all down. But, I haven't really tried. I'm understood just fine using "incorrect" Russian.)


And a final tip for the OP.... you can always make yourself understood by saying a few root words (even if they're in the wrong tense or case) with a little emotion and a "BLAT!" after them. Bottom line with foreign language, everyone knows you're a foreigner, so don't sweat trying to be perfect in their language. You're already taking the time to learn what you can, and that will be good enough. (They were laughing at the "pronunciation game." If you're even remotely close to pronouncing it right, outside the game, they'll understand.) Have fun, and use it as much as you can. "Think" in Russian at your job and on the street, etc. If someone asks you a question, respond (in your head) in Russian first, then in English. Evenetually, you'll get it. GOOD LUCK!!!

10 hours a day is about right, with at least 2 of those in class or with a tutor. The basics of grammar can be learned in about 3 months though.



The critical part is getting the sounds right with case endings. You don't need to know how to spell the ending correctly, just knowing that you want an "AH" or "OO" souding ending is good enough.

KGSodie - did you have a chance to look at the link to the Princeton lessons I posted? What do you think?

Russ - I did look at the Princeton course, which is to say I have located it, but I'm still working on code to download everything so I don't have to save each file individually. Thanks again!

Slim - I appreciate all of your comments, but I think I'll have to politely disagree with many of your assessments and conclusions. Nothing personal - I just don't see things the same way that you do!

Thanks again, everyone!

Try Backstreet Browser...
http://www.spadixbd.com/backstreet/


Cheers!

a Perl mirror script (for mirroring websites) is what I used.

wget will also do this. Google for it, or if you use a Mac or Linux, you already have it. I figured there must be a Windows port, and of course, there is: http://users.ugent.be/~bpuype/wget/

I send a big welcome to the OP too and thanks for an interesting topic.
I wish I had one tenth his motivation to learn, to be honest most of my motivation came when I was "looking" ... now that I have found her I can see where it will be of little importance down the road.
Don't get me wrong, I still have a list of new words on my desk all the time I glance at to help me recall them and in conversations I take notes too.
Before, in conversation we would speak mostly in Russian (as limited as mine is) now we are 75% english.

I would agree with others who believe The lady would benefit the most from all this energy to learn a new language. My Fiance goes to lessons at least twice a week and we work on her home-work in every conversation.

At first she wanted to wait until she got here to learn but I explained for a number of reasons she would really be at an advantage to start right away.

1. It would have to be easier to learn to speak English (especially in the beginning) from someone who can explain it in her language. I think most ESL classes are taught by someone who might not even speak Russian.


2. Where I live, there is no public trans, it might be difficult to get to and from ESL until she can drive.

3. While I have heard of some very cheap or free classes in USA... to hire a tutor in Russia is much cheaper than to hire one here.

4. I think the OP is dedicated enough to languages where he might be able to actually teach the new wife "principles of the language" in most cases just picking up from conversation at home could start bad speak habits.

From all reports I have heard.... the kids will learn lightning fast , no need to worry there.

As for me, I only want to speak enough Russian to make my point known, I am not interested in learning all the variants to words, if I were to live in Russia, it would be a different goal for me.

I agree we all have different methods we respond to best, as for me if I listen to Pimsluer while driving, I can absorb it ten times faster than if I try to do it at the house, I just get distracted to quickly.
It sounds like the OP girl already knows a little english, it might be helpful for her to get a good book and them two work on her lessons over the phone. I call St. pet for about 2 cents a minute.
This would help both with her learning more and with "hearing" english spoken better.

One thing we did to help both of us... I would speak russian and she would try to speak english, then we would correct each other.

As I side note; when I returned from my first visit, I recorded her and I speaking on the phone for about an hour. I thought it might be interesting to listen back to it some day after she is speaking fluent.

Good luck,
Danny

And that's cool, because you don't have to. You're situation is unique to you, and you better know what you need than I do. I presented what worked for me, and it may not be what works for you. Hopefully it will help someone here on VJ! Good luck with your method, however you choose. And please, let us know how it works out for you! Who knows, maybe it will even work for me!

And with this... I bow out.

I often try to think in Russian, just for practice. reading russian written books is a good way to learn the pronunciation, though i can only understand about 50% of it. While I'm walking my dog, I try to title everything I see with its Russian form. I think I'm just goofy like that.

Hi,
It has been a long time since I posted. My wife has returned to Russia for her first visit after arriving here for our wedding. She has been here about 18 months, and will return this week after 2 months in Yoshkar Ola.

The AOS interview was conducted solely in English and the interviewer asked how we could communicate if my wife does not know English. Well she stepped up to the plate with the question and said, in her limited English, Mike understands me and I understand him! Her English is continuously improving but many times we have to seach for words that have similar roots in Russian and English so as to ensure we are on the same idea. Of course my new son was receiving A's in English in his first semester here and is already much better at grammar, spelling and reading than his American peers - so sad that so many American children do not use the valuable time in school to try to excel rather than "coast" along. I digress...it will help if she learns some English (lessons) in Russia...AND takes driving lessons. Instructions are best given in the native tongue! You or an instructor, here in the USA, attempting to inform/teach vital driving details might not be very effective if she is nervous about the car, you, and not knowing English.... but this is my own 2cents.

My wife took English lessons in Russia for about 9 months prior to her interview in Moscow and we practiced on the phone together. As another said, a lady can feel very alone and isolated if she cannot speak the language. Olga was very reluctant to interact with others due to feelings of not being able to speak English well enough but she has a nice disposition and recognizes that in others and will communicate with them. One incident in a store had a sales staff speaking louder to her (as if that will make her understand better), speaking aggressively and using very poor English grammar. The sales staff said some =thing to the effect that my wife needed to speak correctly English (sic) and I bristled saying that if she wanted my wife to spend money in the store, that she needed to attempt to communicate. From this, my wife learned that even in America many natives lack the ability to speak well and attempt to belittle others who are not fluent.

So, being prepared is always better. Good luck on those lessons. I really liked Pimsleur I & II but I was informed that it was not how people really spoke so I revised some of my limited Russian vocabulary and am content that I will never be in Russia apart from my fluent son and wife and I will be happy with that.

Of course my mother-in-law will come with my wiffe for a visit and I will need to speak Russian to her a little bit :-)
etcm

I guess it all depends if you are into bicycling or maybe velosipyed is a code word for something else

Excellent practice methods! Reading aloud is especially important. You can read wonderfully to yourself; try to read aloud to a group of natives and you get laughed at! Reading aloud, even if you don't understand is a great way to improve your pronunciation skills. Trying to title everything is great! If you could label everything you see in Russian, you would be fluent in no time!

You may not be as "grammatically correct" as some of the other gents on here, but I would bet you're better understood by the ladies than they are because of your practicality.



It has been a long time since you posted, welcome back! Glad to see things are going well for you guys. Good luck in the future. And don't be such a stranger!




I like to use another code..... "smotri moy vertolyet" my wife responds with her code - "Durak, shtoli?"

Very good information and opinions in this thread; enjoyed reading it much; I agree with most of the feelings of Kevin but see the opinions of Slim as valid.

I lived in Russia for 8 months but learned very little language. My biggest motivation was during my last visit and Alla said "I love it when you speak Russian". The first time I said "I love you" I did it in Russian, it was important for me to communicate important concepts to her in her language. Of course, I also said it in English so she could understand my broken Russian.

I have always wanted to learn more Russian but I have great difficulty learning if I can not see the written words and hear the words at the same time. Pimsleur is good but nothing in writing so it was difficult for me-nothing written to go with the CD's.

Pimsleur actually has a printed study guide. I'm not sure which lesson it's in, but it's out there somewhere. If you purchase another language lesson set (Berlitz, etc.) their study guides should have most of the same words in print that Pimsleur is featuring in their audio.

I would suggest reading any and all Russian books you have, to include childrens' books. These first few learning lessons all cover pretty much the same stuff. "Kak vas zavout?" etc., etc., etc......

john, ah vi

My main problem is that since I don't have a native tongue, I sometimes don't understand myself.

Sometimes this makes things interesting with my wife, who sometimes understands me better than I understand myself. And sometimes not. And the other way around -- both ways.

???????

Yeah I agree with Slim ??????

Everyone has a native tongue. You may be "from" more than one place, but there's always one language that you revert back to in times of great anguish or extasy.

I know a several Russian women that came here with limited English skills and never went to ESL school after they got here. They can communicate, some better than others, but some are far from fluent after having been here for almost ten years now. The ones that didn't learn English as well are the ones that have not gone to work and have stayed home to take care of the children. Another one I know, married an American man that spoke Russian to her all the time. So, she taught herself how to speak English and now she is a realtor. It seems to me that it depends on how bad the person wants to learn English, not the method of study. Some, like my ex-wife (and I may be biased here) are just plain lazy. I sent her to ESL school but, she never really applied herself and refused my help. Now, her English skills are very limited and so are her chances of ever find a good job.

(1) How do you guys communicate? Lack of communication leads to bigger problems besides finding a job. (2) If you are in San Francisco or the Bay Area, her odds of finding a job in the Russian speaking community is good.

I don't know if you've noticed it, Sat, but the more we ask the question here of communication between international spouses without language skills, the more people who actually are in this situation, try to escape answering it. I get a feeling they don't communicate at all. She smiles and waves and he smiles and waves back...
Everybody can find a job if one looks hard enough. Those 12 mill illegal folks make their living somehow otherwise they wouldn't be here!

Good point, I've noticed that too. I ask this question all the time time, because even though my wife and I are both Russian native speakers, we still have difficulty in communicating some times. Some of it is just based on our personalities and another part is that some of my "Thinking in English" said in fluent in Russian doesn't always come across with the same meaning in Russian. Keep in mind I came here when I was six and she came just three years ago.
But I think this fellow was referring to his ex-wife. According to his timeline he has just started the process with I guess a new fiancée.

You are right, communication, or lack thereof was a big problem in our marriage. We are divorced now and she is still working her dead end, minimum wage job supplemented with a part time job as a sort of nanny to Russian speaking invalids. In the beginning, we had difficulties communicating. It just takes longer to get your point across but, it can be done. After some time goes by, it gets easier and easier. We did have to use a friend to translate some complex issues from time to time. It is of paramount importance that both parties take the time to make sure that the other understands exactly what they are saying. Not all the time but, when you are talking serious issues. I don't think I did that well enough. Live and learn! I hope I can do better this time around!
Trying to learn each others language can be fun. You can forget jokes that are a play on words though! Blank stares is all you get!

Exactly! Even speaking the same language you may never understand each other! Thinking in English will come around for her too, don't worry. The only thing it takes is time. Oh, maybe also practice.
One more thing I don't understand is about these second or third time arounders. If it didn't work once, for exactly the reasons of nationality (lack of language skills, misunderstanding, different temper) why bother try again with the same type? Too irresistible?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the old one... She would be so much better off with you, right? Come on, maybe she is happy out of her mind doing all that!!!

Wait a minute! Two folks, in bed, in the middle of the night. He goes: "Honey, a little slower!" And she goes: "Chevo?" and reaches for the phone to call the friend to translate... Couldn't it be a perfect episode of some sit-com? Maybe it sounds a little cruel (my apology, no offense meant) but gee, I can't imagine life like that!

Sometimes I feel guilty that I do not know Russian, at least beyond words of love, but I am just thankful that Liliana knows English fluently. When we met she knew English and I cannot imagine trying to start a relationship with a communication barrier of two different languages. I am sure in many ways she would have been the same woman when I met her if she did not know English, but we would have hardly started any relationship. Of course I would have been attracted to her, but I want more than just looks. She has worked for American and British businesses and now is at a school in Germany that is taught in English. Sometimes she even corrects my English, but I throughly enjoy her "Russianness".

Sometimes a little Russian in bed is quite sexy

Sunshine and puppy dogs..... love will conquer all!!!

I'm not sure how you say that in Russian. Oh well, doesn't matter because my fiancee loves me and we'll figure out a way to communicate because we both love each other. It doesn't matter if we need a translator to express our ideas and emotions to each other because we really love each other.


The glass is half full.

Full of bull$#!T.

Wow! Ok. First of all, she may be happy working her dead end job but, being happy doesn't pay the bills in the San Francisco bay area where the median home price is in the range of $700 to $800,000. Also, you are assuming that she speaks no English and I speak no Russian. Ne pravda! I know what "chevo" means. In the beginning I had problems with her because I would try to talk to her and I would try to help her with her English lessons but, she would refuse my help and she would not talk with me. I finally had to get a friend to translate so that I could understand what the problem was. She was just ashamed to make any mistakes. We got over that and things were better.

Why would I do it again, if it didn't work out with the first one? There are many reasons. One is that now, most of my friends are married to Russian women. Finding another Russian woman would be a good fit with my friends. Also, I have more or less assimilated into the Russian culture, I love travelling to Russia, I enjoy the people, the culture, the history, even the food. And of course, Russian women are younger and prettier than any woman I have met or I am likely to meet here. Why not marry another Russian?