How do you figure? How many VJers have you met IRL?

Your statement implies we hide on here. I am very much the same in person. Thing is, the other 98% of my life has nothing to do with immigration and therefore not as heated.

Do we REALLY have to have this same 'conversation' again? Jeez.

Marilyn, the best example of a place in life where you DON'T get to pick who you are surrounded by is WORK. It's important at work to get along with others and play nice, but it's also important to be able to function at your job. If somebody is being a real butthead (to the point it affects the work environment) then honestly, I would rather try to handle it (at least one time) with the 'perpetrator' before I run off to the HR department and whine.

i mean in reference to how we deal with situations like this.... do we let things go or do we attack back??

I wasn't implying anything about hiding etc... sorry if it was took that way...

Again, a difference in perspectives. While you think staying mum is preferable since you are not "stooping", I think that many people take that as a sign that their behavior is acceptable and will be tolerated. They will continue until they see otherwise.

but you could always go work somewhere else... and you also usually choose where you work....


i hate when I want to say something but I can't get my point across the way I want to

I was thinking the same thing. Someone posted previously that in some closed threads they were not given the time to respond. In other threads I have advocated "clearing the air" as an attempt to try to get past it. Again, works for some, not so much for others. There is an issue here, clearly, and don't doubt that the mods see it in that light and are doing our best to guide the climate to more positivity. We are awaiting some feedback in implementing some additional tools and m.o. to our modding.

Who needs a 'position'?

I never said to just ignore it but you shouldn't stoop to their level.. it could be handled differently....

What? So if someone gets bullied at work they are supposed to turn tail & QUIT THEIR JOB???? Not in my lifetime.



One can only deal with so much attacking. It's obvious by the amount of different PMs I receive about it that I am not the only one who sees it continually be allowed to go on. Favoritism is very much in play on VJ.

Leave a good job because of someone in the work environment who is a turd? That's not 'turning the other cheek' - it's probably a poor career choice.

Well, I guess I don't see that happening all that often to be honest. Most often it's that any criticism of a poster's behvior is interpreted by that poster as a personal attack. Calling someone out for their nastiness is not stooping to their level.

That doesn't mean you can't reply to the person in a calm and rational manner....no one's saying to let it be ignored if you feel you must say something....it's what is said in response that can be just as offensive as the original comment.

geez, again I am misunderstood i need to get better communication skills ...

I am just saying that you have that choice to leave if you have tried to resolve the situation peacefully rather then stoop to their level.....

I do see some people stooping to the same level.. I wasn't saying that happens in every case....

LisaD I really don't think you're the right person to be preaching to others about ignoring comments from others and not reacting. You are as guilty for doing this as the next man.

This isn't a personal attack on you, just an observation

CW, I don't make personal attacks. And I certainly don't think any attacks on me should be moderated. Let em hang out for all to see!

I've been attacked in the past, and the last thing I'd do is stoop to that level...

And if I ever would (everyone's human I suppose), I would be complaining about the attack if I participated in a just-as-guilty reply.

LisaD, I didn't say you made personal attacks. I was referring to ignoring comments from others and not reacting. However, you did once accuse me of being passive agressive, which I would take as a personal attack, but that's in the past

I don't see there being a problem if people respond...it's the way you respond. It's the 'stooping-to-your-level-whilst-claiming-the-high-ground' that I think is really strange.

I don't remember calling you PA....but glad it's in the past! I'm sorry if you thought it was a personal attack....I wouldn't put it in that category though.

Although now I am curious...what constitutes a 'personal attack'? I think we're all gonna be surprised to hear everyone's different answers.

Being niggly nosy to get a point across.

Yes, but if I put a happy emote after it then I'm not being niggly nosy, right?

Being niggly nosy is a personal attack?

Who said it was?

I'm not sure everyone saw personal attacks (except from the OP) in the original locked thread which is why this thread exists and is 15 pages long.

I thought it was an answer to the question I asked right above her post.

Deja-vu...

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...ttack&st=15

I don't know, I can't speak for RJ. But I wasn't saying it was. I think the niggly nosy with emote crap contributes to the overall mean spiritedness (is that a word?) that has turned people away from VJ in droves.

If I say 'but that's just my opinion' with a after it, doesn't it make you warm and fuzzy about the sentiment? (Probably not.)

Niggly nosy to make a point.

i.e. Running someone around in a circle, continually asking them to explain a position, feeling, or emotion, especially one the querant supposedly doesn't 'understand'.

An emote is only as bad as you want to take it.

I think many times people have to preface things with JMO as to not offend because things can be taken the wrong way.

Yep, cos again, its all about the how the receiver 'takes' the emote, and not how the sender meant it.

Chicken, egg, blah blah blah....

I don't think calling someone passive aggressive is a personal attack. I don't think saying you don't like the way someone words their posts is a personal attack either.

~~~~~~

To me a personal attack is calling someone insulsting names or demeaning their character, not stating if you don't like the way they said something. If someone called me passive aggressive or defensive, I would not consider it a personal attack. If they called me an idiot or ignorant, yeah that's a personal attack.

And some people talk of baiting, well I saw baiting in H_A's thread not done by H_A, which was obviously going to get a negative response from that person. H_A shouldn't be allowed to continue their bad behavior all over the place of course, but don't bait that person either and then complain when they get mad at you. And then start saying how you can't just sit there if you are baited. Somehow I have managed to be on decent terms with many people I have had debates with, because you don't go to name calling level and stoop low. I have butted heads with H_A, and others, and have been laughed at and belittled by them. I tell them their behavior is not acceptable and report them, and do my best to ignore them because of their cycles of attacks. Why do I want to bother interacting with them on VJ when I wouldn't want to be around them in real life either. If I see them crossing TOS I'll report, but I won't say something to them about it every time, just some times.

I agree with the point Marilyn was trying to say, you don't stoop to ppl's level in real life, well at least I don't think anyone should and I don't. If someone is being a complete moron in real life, I don't act like a complete moron to get back at them. I tell them they are wrong and don't agree with them, or stand up for myself, etc and try not to talk to them anymore or something. I don't start calling them names and acting like the behavior I hate. I believe that is Marilyn's point, which is very valid.

I have not commented on this yet. My statement regarding the initial post is 'that we try our best'. Sometimes we will not see everything that is said and we can not read every post made everywhere so we will only spot the things that are reported to us. We are human and do our best but we can not be perfect. So please try to understand the position of us trying to make things as great as possible without the process consuming every waking hour of our free personal life outside the board -- it is not an easy job but we try .

I would remind you that I only see incidents when they are reported to me and sometimes there may be multiple things in a thread but only one of them is reported. I try to, but can not read everything that was said especially in long threads. Please be concise in reports and let me know what happened using the fewest words you can so I can focus on the job at hand -- I get 30 PM's a day so I need to cut to the meat of the situations as fast as possible). Also please know that I am not online nor the mods at any particular schedule so things may not get responded to quickly all the time .

bad mental image

Here's a wild idea...how about an insult forum? Anyone who goes there, knows they can be insulted, but what is said in there, stays there. Of course there would have to limitations on what kinds of insults are acceptable.

Man, I'm so there.

Just kidding.

I can see a few here getting kicks outta that one though.
And you KNOW the bolded part isn't going to happen. Nuh-uh.

You weren't pissed off when you typed that... right?

no sir!

Ok, how about now?

Lighten up on the mods, folks. I've modded forums before -- gaming ones, full of nutty teenagers -- and it's hard because nearly everything is a judgment call. Is that a TOS violation or someone snarkily replying? Is the post offensive or the reporter just having a bad day? The mods are also not online 24/7.

$0.02: I'm for things being handled quietly and people who report it letting it go. Posting it publicly in this crazy atmosphere just means people will end up debating whether mod was faiiiir in bannning their fwend when they have PROOF that the other person who did XYZ wasn't banned. All it leads to is burned out mods. And it would probably be good if complaints went to a general 'mod box' rather it being any one mods' responsibility. Helps the mods know what's going on.

I think it would be healthy if everyone adopted the attitude that once they've reported a TOS problem, they've successfully passed the buck. Look, we advise people whose frickin' spouses used them for a greencard to report it to ICE and move on, and not hang around for schadenfreuden details of punishment. Surely we can say 'I reported it, it's no longer my problem' and close the window if we can expect people to move on with their lives after an actual betrayal.

Using the mods to adjudicate your personal disputes is just a way to drive everyone crazy if they have to jump around saying, 'well, you called her a rude idiot, but, you know, she *was* a rude idiot, so we won't ban you.' Mean while we have the MENA troll eating the board chomp chomp chomp.

It would be great if people would report actual problems (like people advocating breaking the law or trolls or spambots) and leave the personal disputes out of it.

Sounds like a plan!

Well, they do carmelize nicely. Like creme brulée.

Heal the world.
Make it a better place.
For me and for you
and the entire human race.

Or something like that.


Great post. So I'm gonna quote the whole thing again.

I am going to post it two more times ....

At what point does reinforcement become spam?

Repetition is funny.

That's it, I'm reporting all y'all. SPAMMERS!

(When I used to mod and people broke the TOS, I'd just change their insults to things like [daisies].)

thats just gay

That's just [sparkly unicorns.]