I don't think anyone who is 'well liked' is gonna 'step out of line' very often.

Any rule that is put into place has to apply to all.

I'm thinking that instead of it being strictly a 3 strikes rule, a final deciding factor would be whether they get along well with others or if they tend to piss off a lot of members.

It is our DAMN BUSINESS.... H_A made it our Business when she attacked us for no good reason..... all the mods have to do when someone reports things like this is send a PM to the person who was attacked and reported the attack telling them the outcome..... last time I checked being a victim of an attack does give you the right to know what has been done to the attacker....

Kez

You are not the only one in admin I can PM.

And you never did say why you called me out on that hanging thing yet I never mentioned anything of the sort. Hmmmm, selective answering...

Just a thought here...maybe something like jail cell that Tracy refers to would serve as a warning to others that this same thing can happen to you if you constantly attack or deliberately piss people off. That is, if we had something like this here.

Just my penny's worth.

Just going to say this, and then I'm going for my tea.

There have been a few good points made in this thread today so I'm going to bring them up with the Captain (it is his board after all!) and the other mods and we'll have a chat about it all.

Fair enough!

Mmmm....tea. *goes to put the kettle on*

FWIW, I think half the problem sometimes is that people know they can get away with ###### and basically aren't held accountable for it; to the outsider looking in, they simply 'go missing' for a few days which could actually be life interfering and not any sort of a suspension or what not. How is the person on the other side of the fracas to know the difference? Thus, it gives the impression that they got away with it. And I'm sorry, but when you're attacked by someone, it IS your damn business to know whether or not they got off scot free.

It doesn't HAVE to be the jail cell idea - Kez's suggestion would be fine too - at the very least, if the persons involved in the incident knew what was meted out (instead of everyone talking behind backs and getting more riled up), it may just prevent the cycle of asking the mods what gives, etc and so on.

The only reason I prefer the jail cell idea is the accountability factor, but I guess that's because I sort of see everyone here as 'peers'. Meaning if I know what can and cannot be done, and what is and isn't acceptable, then I may be less likely to even go there. The flip side of this is to constantly push the boundaries to see how much of my body I can get across that line before I get the smack down. Yes, people SHOULD know these things by common sense alone, or by having read the TOS, but we all know that doesn't always exist in message board land.

BTW I use the term 'I' (in the example above) in a general sense because every one knows I'm always a perfect angel.

Well said Tracy. I agree wholeheartedly.

..sing along...it's ONE TWO THREE strikes your out at the old ball game..............

Jackie

Please consider this post as a personal attack on everyone who has posted on this thread.

Kez

Well, that'd be just like you now, wouldn't it!!!



*That made me LOL for real*

A physical attack, where the police would be involved, is a little bit - ok, a LOT different - than some words on a message board. Hint, it's NOT real life. If Steven or Charles were to post that they were b!tch-slapping me while wearing speedos and riding llamas, I wouldn't consider it an attack - I'd be repulsed, but I wouldn't call it an attack.

What is and what isn't considered an attack varies from person to person. In the end though, this is JUST a message board. Anyone who feels so passionately about knowing what has happened to someone, that THEY FEEL attacked them, really needs to get a new hobby.

This isn't just a message board. VJ is here to guide people through a very important and difficult journey. The experiences of the long term members is what makes this site work. We're not talking about Hello Kitty here, we're talking about life changing help and advice. My point is, if you don't keep the members happy then they will start to leave the site, and with that you lose valuable experience with immigration matters. Personally I would consider it a definite problem if people like Kez, rebeccajo, dev et al., are getting pissed off because these people are the backbone of the AOS forum and others, and losing them would be a huge loss to the forum.

This seems all so survivorish....play the game and get everyone to like you or else you'll get voted off the island, heh.

Yeah, but Dev is ALWAYS pissed off.

Thing is, VJ will be here long after all of us 'move on'....few years from now, there will be a new crop who are seen as the 'old crop' and so on. Cos let's face it...with immigration laws and visa procedures constantly changing, the personal wealth of information will cease to be as valuable because it is outdated.

I see each side here saying what's on their minds and using 'I was attacked' as justification for the things they say about the other person. on BOTH sides. So how long's a piece of string, yanno what I mean?

a lot of the people who were the "regulars" when I first joined VJ back in 2004 aren't here anymore....

I am? Since when do you speak for me?

New VJ feature

Hey all -- should we close this topic and restart under a new title to keep things more clear. Just wanted to see how I can assist in organizing the topic / discussion. Let me know!

Just call 'em as I see 'em. Every single day you are getting snotty with someone, chiding someone, or proclaiming loudly as part of the Martyr Club.

Why start a new thread. This one seems to be keeping amazingly focussed and on-track.

With all due respect Devilette...he's right.

No offense Platy, but you're feeeding into the same behavoir yourself. I'm not sure what your purpose in this thread is except to chide people you personally don't like (I assume your footer is a swipe at DEv, you've had it posted for some time)

For whatever your issues with her are and whatever her tone may be, at least Devilette provides valuable advice in AOS and K-1 forums. I'm not sure you do the same.

Closing the thread and starting a new one is not going to solve the issues that have been raised here... There have been many good points raise in this thread from many members.... we can have as many threads as you want but until the main issue has been seen to be addressed by members of VJ the subject is not going to go away...

while some of us are willing to make a public statement about the situation so that we can make VJ a fun place to be, where good info can be shared to help people through the maze of immigration... sadly there are members who feel they are better off not being here because of the way they have been treated... and their departure from VJ is our loss...

Some have said "well its not real life so why let it bother you.... VJ is very much a part of real life for many.... it is the backbone of their source of information and support, it is a very unique site with a wonderful support system for all members and one of the best sources of immigration info and real life expirence that is available on the net...

I do not support public humiliation, but when one member is seen to being allowed to run riot and to ordenary members it appears that nothing is been done then there comes a time when someone has to speak out and try to improve things....

Kez

Now WHY would you assume that? Hmmm....by your assumption, you have shown that you agree with me.

As for contributing to the forums...

I wasn't aware that this was a post-only forum. I thought people were allowed to come here to read and use the knowledge of the people who have been through it already. Silly me.

But yes, I did post helpful things at one time. I saw, however, that such things weren't appreciated and it was much easier to just stomp across the board like a raging arsehole, telling people to use the damn search function, and assuming that anything said was about you.

So I adopted the same attitude.

PlatyPius, Please try to keep this on topic, your posts are not helping us to try to resolve the situation....

Thanks

Kez

I just matched up the language of your post with the footer (use of the word martyr being a give away) - not exactly rocket science. It was clear you had an issue with someone and were using your footer to advertise that fact. What's this about a raging arsehole you say?


Sometimes it's so ironic it's like reading Kierkegaard.


And no, you don't have to contribute to forums, but many with the issue here (kez, Dev, RJ, Tracey) provide considerable support on an important life-changing event. I think their views on this issue are important. It would be a lose it any of them left, whatever your own personal views on them might be.

It IS on topic.

It's the same people demanding the same things over and over and over and over. My posts happen to be about one of those people.

Why are skins so thin here that people feel the need to tattle about anyone who says something against them or even just disagrees with them? I've owned several message boards, been a member on a lot more, and I have NEVER seen so much whining, tattling, and finger-pointing as I have here.

Y'all have accused the moderators of preferential treatment of some people, but what is it that robinklake is doing right here in this very thread? Apparently Dev, Kez, etc are more important than me (preferential treatment) because they contribute more to the forum. Hello? Hypocrisy anyone?

And before anyone accuses me of being biased toward Homesick_American (I wish y'all would just name names instead of making vague references...), I think H_A herself can disavow that one. Dig up the thread where she was talking about buying a house in Texas, if you have any doubts.

I hoped to make a point with my posts, and thanks to robinklake, I did.

I never said more important, stop being so thin-skinned yourself - your only reason for being here (this thread or the site suggestions area generally) appears to be to take potshots at people you dislike. I am only calling you on that.

If you feel that it was on topic.... then thanks for your contrabution...

I did not name the member that I was refering to because I did not feel that they needed to be named... I think everyone here is fully aware of who it is we are refering to....

Kez

If we're that vile to be around, why the hell are you here? Mags is a big girl - not to mention smart and capable - which is why I'm quite sure she can handle herself without your 'help'. And we get it, you detest Dev. You think we're all whiners and tattlers. You enjoy stomping around here and being an arsehole. Etc. and so forth. Duly noted.

I can't speak for anyone else in this thread, but I did not contribute to it to pick on or attack the mods. (I think they have a thankless, difficult job.) I am trying to come up with feasible solutions to the issues at hand. I'm sure that won't stop you from stomping on me, but now that I know your M.O., I'll be sure not to take it personally.

And if this now makes me one of the whiners/tattlers, then yay for me!

Hell Tracy, I LIKE you. Part of that preferential treatment.... I won't stomp on you.

The ONLY reason I posted to this thread was because I can only take so much before I have to say what's on my mind.

Oh. AND I quit smoking Sunday.

Because the way we are told to let admin know that someone is getting out of control is by PM or the "Report" button?

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!! *claps*

I just want to clarify that even though PlatyPius is my husband, his posts do NOT necessarily reflect my views. He is his own person; I am am not swayed from my own POV by him and nor him by me.

Thank you.

I know that, mags. I have appreciated your input in this thread SO much.

Personally Mags has been there for me anytime i send her a message and has always replied whatever the issue is ... good job

Captain,

The things I personally would like to ask about are:

How can a member continuously attack people (either personally or through blatantly racist and openly offensive comments); be reported more than half a dozen times (I've done this), and be able to continue posting? And NO, I am not talking about H_A Captain, since you know who is the person I have reported on most occasions over the same issue.

VJ is part of our day-to-day lives, not just "another message board". We come here to find help with a process that is life altering.- And personally, I think there should be no place for allowing our racist selves to come up and bash people we know nothing about (talking about "race" here, no one in particular). Launching a campaign against Mexicans, Filipinos, Russians, Germans, Cubans or any other ethnicity in a site full of people whose loved ones come from those countries and are going through hell to be together as a family is beyond inconsiderate or political correctness, it is quite infuriating - where's our understanding? Our compassion? Our willingness to help?

My .02, as a member of VJ who is here to help and be helped.

Peace all, L.

p.s. I will be PMing Ewok and other Mods exactly this post.- hope I get a response.

Captain,

The things I personally would like to ask about are:

How can a member continuously attack people (either personally or through blatantly racist and openly offensive comments); be reported more than half a dozen times (I've done this), and be able to continue posting? And NO, I am not talking about H_A Captain, since you know who is the person I have reported on most occasions over the same issue.

VJ is part of our day-to-day lives, not just "another message board". We come here to find help with a process that is life altering.- And personally, I think there should be no place for allowing our racist selves to come up and bash people we know nothing about (talking about "race" here, no one in particular). Launching a campaign against Mexicans, Filipinos, Russians, Germans, Cubans or any other ethnicity in a site full of people whose loved ones come from those countries and are going through hell to be together as a family is beyond inconsiderate or political correctness, it is quite infuriating - where's our understanding? Our compassion? Our willingness to help?

My .02, as a member of VJ who is here to help and be helped.

Peace all, L.

p.s. I will be PMing Ewok and other Mods exactly this post.- hope I get a response.

Grr I typed a big long essay and it's gone! (my error, not the invisibility elf)

OK I've hesitated on having any input on this thread for the last 2 days, following my warning for thinly veiled opinions and piggybacking on others comments. I don't see how I can comment without piggybacking and thinly veiled opinions seem to be running rampant in this thread.

There are 2 camps in the VJ UK forum. This isn't going to go away overnight, but really does need to go away as it's causing a really bad atmosphere. I would think out of everyone, the mods would be the people who would want this resolved as quickly as possible. The people complaining are not asking for an eternity of a$$ kissing and apologies, they're asking for acknowledgement. That's all. Acknowledgement that their complaints through the proper channels are not falling on deaf ears because of who they are. You don't have to name names, publicly humiliate or flog someone. I once complained about a mod and got the response from Ewok "read the thread, totally agree with you, I'll PM them now". That's all it took. I was happy my complaint/query had been dealt with in the right way and this person would heed the warning given to them.

As for members being rated on their valuability to VJ, damn right! If someone who doesn't or hasn't been through the visa process and only posts in OT is complaining about a member who supplies countless posts on visa problems and answers the poster efficiently and correctly, who is the more deserving to be here? I know personally that some of the people in this thread alone helped me immensely on my journey, and if it wasn't for them I would have been heavily medicated by now.

Now let's take this thread for instance. PlatyPius comes in and calls Dev names. Outright. No thinly veiled opinions, no code, nothing. I would like to think Mags has said something to him face to face. Do I know that's happened? no. If I ask, will Mags tell me? no. So therein lies the frustration. All Mags says is a disclaimer that her husband can call people names and she doesn't necessarily agree with him. This is just so wrong in my opinion. If it had been me who had called Dev names, I would have been reported, possibly PM'd and a warning would be in the thread to avoid personal attacks.
Also just for the record.. it really doesn't look too professional or fill people with confidence when even a Mod's husband admits to only being here to be an a$$hole.

Just my views. I don't have diseases and I'm not suffering from any withdrawals of anything, so this is me rationally saying what I think, no excuses.

If someone PMs me requesting I look into something, or they complain about someone, I DO acknowledge them and make it obvious that I am taking some action. You haven't, to my knowledge, complained to me directly so you do not know how I respond in PMs. Try it one day, you might be pleasantly surprised!



My disclaimer was not condoning PlatyPius' behaviour nor agreeing with it; I thought I made that perfectly clear. I'll clarify again that my husband is his own person and NO special treatment is applied in his case regarding warnings and bans either. If he crosses the line I will have no hesitation in carrying out any actions. I'd prefer it if people could please see us as two separate entities and not just use it as another chance to have a go at me.

I have done all I can in this thread. I've stated that I will bring up many of the suggestions put forward here with the mods and the Captain; until then my hands are tied and there is nothing more that I can add.

I don't agree.

Surely there are people who don't like one another in there, but as to the whole environment, I don't think it's a 'house divided' in the way that everyone has picked sides.

Please know we have already started discussion on suggestions we received in this thread. There is no way to immediately implement any kind of change, but know we are doing our best to create the balance you are asking for. Of course we want the atmosphere to be positive, we wouldn't want for any less and are doing what we can to possibly add some of your ideas into our M.O.

That's a good point, but.....but being a contributing member doesn't give that member the right to act like a duma$$.

Maybe because I'm NOT in Admin I can't see why we have all these problems - to me the solution seems SO simple.

Somebody types something crappy and they hit send. It then becomes a part of the forum. It's there and it's permanent for anybody to see. I realize that post tone and intent sometimes get mixed - but normally those issues get sorted.

I just for the life of me cannot understand why when the written record is there - why is it so hard to define what the poster meant?

If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck it probably is a duck. I think most of us can pretty clearly discern which ducks are $hitting all over this community.

I wasn't directing this at you personally. Lower the defense mechanisms! I know in the past, people have complained about members and have not received any acknowledgement is all. I was simply saying that in MY opinion, this is where communication breaks down and problems arise. But for the record, I did ask you during PM's last week if HA would be receiving any kind of warning (as I did) for her comments, and was told you cannot discuss that with me. Maybe because I'm not report happy on people and didn't press the button. Presumption on my part that my direct question would be obvious.



Yes you did make that clear in your disclaimer, however, and again, this is an opinion on taking VJ forward, I think it would have been a lot more pro active for you to have asked him in the forum to stop the personal attacks. This has been done in the past. Consistency is the key.

Point noted, CW.

The point is, EVERYONE feels attacked, and EVERYONE uses that as justification for attacking the other. This dynamic cannot be moderated by anyone other than one's self.

There are some pretty nasty things being said in here. I cannot for the life of me understand how one can claim the high road at the same time as contributing to the poo fling.

It's a never ending cycle which will only end when each party wants it to end. The mods can do everything under the sun....but finger wagging and punishments only go so far.