I find it very strange that here on VJ that it appears that certain people are allowed to say what they like and nothing seams to be done... while others because they are blocked from PM have no choice but to post publicly when they feel that someones behaviour is not acceptable and they want to call them out on that....

It also seems like some mods are willing to let things go with a warning in a thread about personal attacks but when others then try to defend themselves or respond to a situation the thread get locked and the person who feels thay have no option but to allow this member to continue to do whatever they like, because well a Mod will just come along and lock the tread... Its all very well saying if you dont like what you read then just walk away but this advice should apply to all not just the people who are responding to the poster who did the initial attacking...

I will stop now before I end up saying too much...

Kez

And why are some personal attacks alllowed to remain & others deleted or made invisible?

I find that these situations are not dealt with consistently at all.

It is strange, particularly when the OP (who is apparently being "attacked" by people expressing their opinion) has a TOS violation in that same thread herself.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t&p=1059548


The thread is locked but the attack remains-there is a definite double standard

Thank you Kez.

Why not hide or edit the posts that are attacks (as we know posts can and have been edited), then send a PM to the poster explaining why and telling them to stay out of that particular thread - if they don't, give them a 24 hour ban to cool off.

I did ask the OP some questions (quite legitimate ones, actually) that I would like answers to - which now will not happen. Unfortunate, really, because perhaps the answer to the question(s) would have settled some of the issues around here for more than just me.

(Sorry if I'm not making sense, there's literally a party going on in the cube behind me, so I can't focus!

I always like to say WHY I lock a thread and I will never lock a thread without a warning. If the behaviour continues then I will lock it.

The thread I locked today had already had a warning from the Captain, yet the behaviour continued so I locked it. The thread was WAY off topic aswell which, if you read the guidelines, means that the thread can be locked.

Was there any reason to keep that thread open? Nope.

Perhaps in the future I won't bother explaining WHY I've locked a thread, I'll just do it. After all it just seems to do it give people a reason to pick on the mods once more.

Fair enough - but I think the strongest personal attack came from the OP, which has not been removed. I think it is reasonable that people woill find that inconsistent.

I recommend that VJ members do these three things to start:

1. Report the member using the Report Tool
2. Reply to the post or PM the member in a civil manner letting them know their behavior was inappropriate and/or offensive
3. Contact Capt Ewok referencing the comment via a link, which will allow the powers that be to fight on your behalf using the TOS

Hope this helps...

Cheers!!!

Sheriff Uling

I was attacked mags, and then when I PMed about it, I was told I attacked her. WHAT ON EARTH?

Double standards abound here, esp considering the past with this poster. I have PMs from admin to prove there are double standards.

----

Yesterday, 04:53 PM Post #15

QUOTE(homesick_american @ Jul 19 2007, 04:44 PM)
Well I've only been separated a month and there's still a chance of reconciliation but I think that chance is getting smaller by the day.

My reply (really, someone tell me how this is attacking???):
Even less chance if you don't give him a chance to change.

Her reply:
Yesterday, 05:01 PM Post #16

With all due respect devilette, you don't know me and you definitely don't know my husband. Nobody in my life who knows us thinks that he will change. Pretty much everybody has told me to move on with my life. I think I've been MORE than fair. It has been almost a month...in fact, it will be four weeks tomorrow since we've seen each other...and on any of those days he could have gotten on a plane and come over here. Instead, he has stayed in England, bickered with me about money, worked at the job that he LIED to me about quitting, and in general been a miserable sod. I don't think I should ever trust him and I'm certainly not going to take advice from YOU about my marriage.

Do me a favor...where I am concerned, please keep your opinions to yourself in the future. I am not really interested in anything you have to say to me because it is without exception rude, cruel, or just plain low-class.

----

That's very much a personal attack and NOTHING WAS DONE about it.

*shrug* I would have liked my question(s) answered. I didn't attack anybody.

I'm not picking on you by asking, mags - I'm just frustrated because what seemed like an opportunity to get some silent issues here out in the open (and possibly settled) has now disappeared.

But its not the first time that has happened, and it won't be the last. So it goes.

All well & good Uling but what if all those were done yet it is allowed to remain? Then what? Cuz I can guarantee I did all those.

Yes Sheriff Uling....

Done all of the above.... but still does not make any diffrence the OP is and has been allowed to continue to attack people in just about every thread they post in... and if that does not upset people then they just start their own... and you can not do anything in a quite manner if the OP has you blocked from PM...

Kez

Last month we made posts invisible and got moaned at. Now we don't make posts invisible and we get moaned at.

*goes and builds brick wall from leftover bricks*

See my point?

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

The question is not with invisibility (I don't think) it's about consistent modding. It used to be any violation of the TOS was locked. Now it's not until someone feels like it.

I do - but if posts that are made invisible are clear violations of TOS (personal attacks), then anyone who shouts about it really has no leg to stand on, do they?

Who are you paying?

Squeak squeak.

The point is Mags that the OP had openly attacked people and the post was left... when those people then try to respond and they cant because the thread is locked it just causes frustration and the cycle that has been happening will continue.... more and more people are seening the member in a very diffrent light and these situations will continue to happen until it is delt with in an proper maner... allowing the member to continue to post attacks and then cry blue murder when other respond is not going to sort any of this out....

For most of us the moderation seems to be very onesided....

Kez

That's exactly it - this 'cycle'.

I've just learned that mods can't edit posts - since Capn isn't always here, perhaps that's something they should consider allowing mods to do? Maybe that would spare us this cycle yet another time?

Some people are really socially inept and in some cases, it's from a medical condition. I think we've all witnessed this here on VJ. Although I don't think that gives them a free ride to be insulting to others, I don't think they even fully realize the consequences of their choice of words. I took me awhile to figure that out and now I just accept that some people are that way and there's not a whole lot we can do to change them.

I agree with the Sheriff - just report the specific post and avoid engaging the person on it because they really are clueless about their social ineptitude.

Mags, I have tried to respond to you in PM but your inbox is full.

I would hope that my comments here won't be misinterpreted as piggy backing on others, as I was accused of doing on the now locked thread. These are my opinions with no veils (whatever that means).

I'm afraid to say, the only atmosphere that is being promoted on VJ for me and many others is unfair modding.

I was accused of violating the TOS with thinly veiled opinions. As has been said before, this has been apparent in a majority of other users posts and no action has been taken. I was also accused of insulting the op, which was not the case. As per "the cycle", I fully expected my posts in the other thread to be made invisible. They weren't, and I can only presume that this is due to the fact that people would have asked why some of the OP's posts weren't too.

Cheeky^Wolf ~ my inbox has been empty for around 10 minutes.

Why are my questions not being answered?

Ahh, that'll be while I was typing in this thread.

Does reporting a poster and a thread actually have any consequences?

I ask because of a ridiculous thread in AOS today where a poster made several personal attacks on people in the thread, not to mention appearing to advocate breaking the law, and yet my reporting of the thread and the poster lead to sweet FA being done about it.

post #7 - Uling says what to do. 2 of us did it to no avail. So I guess not.

It would appear that only certain members get their reports actioned on.... depends on the Mod... it onesided as I said...

Kez

Do reported posts only go to Captain, or do the mods see them? (I thought at one time, it was just Capn who got them.)

Yes, it would appear that the report button only reports to Ewok. I was certainly unaware of this, and hope that it is possible to change this for the good of VJ. Not everyone knows who the mods are after all.

If you click on 'the moderating team' link at the bottom of the main page (above all the active users), it still only shows Capn and the Wookie.

The most obvious way for users to report a thread would be to click on report. I think if one has to know a special way of reporting threads (e.g. a PM to mags/lal/yodrak) than that makes people who know this a class of "sub-moderators" (or if you want a nastier term: Informers) who are in on this special secret of how to report a thread.

Having the report button work in a way that actually alerts all mods is the fix, I'm not familiar enough with IPB to know how to do it however.

I think the mods are doing the best that they can, however I do feel that maybe part of this is stemming from a concern over certain people's feelings or reactions. There is a point where enough is enough and a member has to be set straight.

All,

Do not expect to hear back what action may have been taken against a reported post or poster. Failure to report back to you does not mean that no action was taken.

You do deserve to get back an acknowledgement of your complaint, and the acknowledgement may contain some comments about the situaton that you reported, but it would be inappropriate to share discussion between a moderator and a member with other members. Such discussion should be in strict confidence.

Be aware that Captain Ewok or a moderator may not view the incident with the same perspective that you do. Sometimes VJers remind me of kids squabbling - "You" "No, You" "Did not" "Did too"

Yodrak

Dr_LHA,

That is correct, at the present time one can only report to the 3 moderators by PM.

One can go to the Members link in the upper right corner of the page and use the Search feature selecting the group Member,Moderator.

Yodrak

Excuse me, but these personal attacks are not necessary.

"Accepting" consistently rude behavior due to a medical condition makes about as much sense (IMO) as saying it's acceptable for a developmentally disabled person to run around town flashing little old ladies.

I think the biggest issue here in VJ is that you all take everything said too seriously. People care too much about opinions of people they don't even know, or might come to know. A public forum is a place where you'll indeed get plenty of help in certain issues (usually not as personal as marriage issues), but people must learn to filter what they read, and let the things that bothers them fly over their heads.

Personally, I'd be more concerned about offenses done by friends that KNOW me, people that have gotten to know who I am, my background, etc. General posts on VJ won't give people that insight into your life, although, sure, you can make friends here and extend that to chats and e-mails and PMs that will give them a little more knowledge of who you are, but overall, people should learn to ignore certain comments, and to respect certain opinions, be them good or bad.

EDIT: And especially here on VJ, where we have people from all over the world, opinions, thoughts, ideals, etc will be even more divergent than in other types of forums.

Then why I have not received any replies to my PMs?

LOL... I think I know that person. "There goes Uncle Ned again. Somebody go pick him up and lock him in his room."

Why do people get so spun up over chat board antics?

Many people here (present company included), have expressed views that have offended others, yet we all press on.

Having met regulars in person from this site, I realize more than ever, that we are all human. We all have bad days with bad attitudes and so forth.

The Moderators do a great job in "dumping" the ridiculous threads that serve no one, or “trim” posts that demoralize the site. Anything more than that is censorship.

We all need to realize that this is a public board and opinions vary.

Some “reasonable” controls are necessary, which are driven by the owner of the board, Captain Ewok.

I don’t feel compelled or qualified to foist my moderation thoughts on him. Do you?

If so, why?

Bottom line, I like it here.

Steven, I work with students from time to time that are classified as "socially inept" due to their disability. However as you said, that does NOT give them license to be rude, obnoxious, and insulting to other people. This is what we strive to teach these kids on a daily basis so that as adults they CAN function in society without being socially inept or at least be able to stop and think beforehand. Still, there is no excuse for that kind of behaviour, whether IRL or online. If necessary these "socially inept" people *should* look at what they're saying (or typing) and determine for themselves if what they've decided to reply with could me misconstrued as being rude, obnoxious, and insulting. Making allowances for that type behaviour only makes it easier for that person to continue to be this way.

As always, JMHO.

Always a thoughtful opinion. I've noticed with certain people that are like that, if you even delicately try to confront them on it, they become defensive and claim that you're attacking them...it's crazy. Other than walking away from it and ignoring them, I really don't know a better way to deal with people like that. Obviously, if they're that way in this virtual world, they struggle with social interactions in the real world...which is sad. There's some awfully lonely people out there.

The thread in question is locked now, so it's not like one got a slap on the wrist and others didn't.

The majority on VJ wanted mods, now they're here. Now that's no good either to some. Cos this question keeps coming up repeatedly.

Can't we all just learn to ignore sh!t or deal with them in a fashion without running to 'tell'?

I say this to everyone, not picking sides here. Doesn't it all seem a little silly that we're all grown adults in committed relationships with so many real life responsibilities, yet we can't peacefully coexist on a messageboard with people we don't like?

Although, it's fun to argue sometimes.

How do you know that? We don't know what the mods did or didn't do.


The question is not about wanting mods or not. It's about double standards & inconsistent modding.


I dunno Lisa, can we?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=79300

How can you say it's inconsistent if you've also admitted you don't know what the mods did or didn't do?

As far as me & Steven disagreeing...disagreeing is hardly the same thing. No one's telling you to be all 'rah rah I love everyone!' here. There's a difference in my book from name calling and a polite disagreement which stays on topic. But isn't there a some middle ground between happy happy and this clusterfluff happening all the time? How many threads have been closed? How many threads have been started to complain about threads being locked, made invis, etc? First, it was 'lock the thread, don't make it invis'...now it's 'why is this locked?' It's not even like a lock is one sided imo...it just shut down the conversation completely, which I personally don't see as 'taking sides'...more of an attempt to diffuse a situation that will always shows itself until the involved parties decide to stop the merry go round of futility.

Hey, don't get me wrong...it makes for some interesting reading. But regardless of who dislikes whom...can't we all just try to act more like the adults we are? I think it would be refreshing to be able to disagree about things without having the thread locked.

I have PMs saying otherwise.

I'm confused. Didn't you say 'we don't know what the mods did or didn't do'?

I know what they said would be done hasn't.