Hey guys and gals, I've been looking all over the internet and cant find the answers I am looking for. Maybe you guys can help. Heres our sitation. After we get the K-1 and enter the US we will marry within in a week and file the AOS paperwork. We are considering after 2 or 3 years moving to Vladimir. Heres my questions.

1. Can I (a foreigner) own property in Russia? (Flat or build a house)
2. Can I have a bank account in Russia? Is it difficult to wire money from a USA account to a Russian bank account?
3. Do I have to go to a Russian driving school to get a driver's license?
4. How will this affect the AOS and my girl's green card, citizenship process here in the USA?

In addition, if and when we move to Russia my income will be from trading stock/options/bonds in my online account.
5. Will I have to pay capital gains taxes in Russia along with my taxes in the US? I hope not!!

6. Will we need to marry in Russia also to get my temporary residences visa, then permenant residence?. (If anyone can shed some light on this whole subject and process it would be greatly apreciated.)

These are all the questions I have for the moment. I have searched the internet and found only outdated and conflicting info. All help is greatly appreciated. thanks!!!

From what I know yes, you can buy property in Russia, and if it's a real estate thing, that would help you get residence. But I am not sure.
Why would you want to move there anyways (if you don't mind me asking)?

I like Russia and it's pace, especially Vladimir. I dont know if we would live here forever, but I would like to have a flat here and in the US so we can live back and forth at our leisure. Plus the dollar goes a long way in Russia, at least in Vladimir.

Hey guys and gals, I've been looking all over the internet and cant find the answers I am looking for. Maybe you guys can help. Heres our sitation. After we get the K-1 and enter the US we will marry within in a week and file the AOS paperwork. We are considering after 2 or 3 years moving to Vladimir. Heres my questions.

1. Can I (a foreigner) own property in Russia? (Flat or build a house)
2. Can I have a bank account in Russia? Is it difficult to wire money from a USA account to a Russian bank account?
3. Do I have to go to a Russian driving school to get a driver's license?
4. How will this affect the AOS and my girl's green card, citizenship process here in the USA?

In addition, if and when we move to Russia my income will be from trading stock/options/bonds in my online account.
5. Will I have to pay capital gains taxes in Russia along with my taxes in the US? I hope not!!

6. Will we need to marry in Russia also to get my temporary residences visa, then permenant residence?. (If anyone can shed some light on this whole subject and process it would be greatly apreciated.)

I live in Eastern Ukraine and I can tell you about my experience here... I think the answers will be the same for Russia....

You can own property.


You can have a bank account and wire money into it. My bank charges $5 per wire plus 1%. I have wired enough money into my bank here to buy property, but I have not tried to take money out of the country. I have read where there may be problems with trying to wire large amounts of money out. In Ukraine they are talking about passing a law to heavily tax any profit foreigners make on real estate here... may be the same for Russia, not sure.

My friends drive here with their US driver's license and an "international driver's license." It isn't a driver's license, but a translation of your driver's license into other languages.

If you are moving in 2 or 3 years, you should be done with AOS. If you move to Russia before your wife is an American citizen, then she will need to return to the States once a year to keep her greencard. I would suggest waiting until she is an American (3 years) and then moving. If not, I am not sure when she would be eligible to become a citizen and you risk her losing her greencard.

I live off of money from the States and only pay American taxes. You aren't earning the money in Russia, so the government has no way to tax you.

Not sure about Russian temp resident or permanent resident, but I know that I have seen how to become a Ukrainian permanent resident on the US Embassy website for Kyiv. You could try looking at the US Embassy website for Russia and see if it is listed there.

I am not sure, but I think America doesn't allow you to have Dual Citizenship with Russia.... if I were you, I would hate to do anything to endanger my American citizenship.

Last piece of advice for you.... think really carefully about moving to this part of the world. I don't know how much time you have spent in Russia, but I can tell you that there is cheating, lying and stealing at every level of society. I am probably cheated at least 3 or 4 times a week. I wouldn't suggest trying to open a business here or anything unless you want to deal with paying off a lot of people and even risk losing your life! I am a missionary here, but other than that I would not live here!
As a woman who looks very Ukrainian, I am able to blend in and fly under the radar, but I have one American friend (man) who was beaten and left for dead for nothing other than walking down the street. He spent two weeks in a hospital in America recovering and has lost hearing in one ear and his sense of smell!



These are all the questions I have for the moment. I have searched the internet and found only outdated and conflicting info. All help is greatly appreciated. thanks!!!

I am aware of the risks living in Russia. Fortunetly Vladimir is a pretty quiet city with minimal crime. I certainly would not wire all my money to Russia, only as I need it. I am aware of the business practices here and would never open a business here or probably even get a job here. So far, my experience has been great with the Russian people. I have had no problems with any Russian that knew I was American. The experience your friend had was probably a isolated incident and could happen anywhere in the US. I personally think America is much more dangerous than Russia. Thanks for the advice!!

Hey, can't answer all, but trying to help
3. You may not have to go to driving school, but you will have to take a driving exam and get either Russian license or some supplementary to your US driver's license. I am Russian with only US driver's license - and not allowed to drive in my own country
Given Russian realities, your SO will probably find someone who will get you whatever paper is needed for some moola and no exam
4. No taxes for you. And if you get a job in Russia (see if there are any US companies around - they will hire you and they are safe) - taxes will be taken out automatically. No worries.
6. You don't need to marry in Russia again, they should recognize your US marriage provided a translation of marriage certificate. But, I know for sure, to become a Russian citizen, you have to renounce all other citizenships you have
I suspect that buying a property may be enough to get you residentship, but I am not completely positive. Let us know when you find out, I would like to know as well!
As for that "isolated" incident of someone beaten up - Russia has a long standing tradition of treating foreigners better than our own kind. There are two caviats: not many Russians left in Moscow - hence it is a dangerous city now (I suspect those were not Russians beating up that person in Ukraine); if you are buying goods/doing business/fixing your car - you will be cheated. But so any other (local) person would be.
Good luck with that, you brave soul!
Rika

OK,
found something for you, hopeful info on driving
http://vladivostok.usconsulate.gov/wwwhacsdriving.html
See, you have more rights than me
Rika

I lived in Moscow for about 7 months. You don't have to go to a Russian driving school......all you'd need is an international drivers permit and your US drivers license. To get an international drivers permit, go to any AAA Location, bring your U.S. driver's license, two photos, fill out an application, pay $15-$20 and they'd issue you a permit valid for 1 year.

Does anyone know for sure about dual-citizenship?

Also, Russia doesn't recognize a marriage done in the U.S., right?

So, if we (as a USC married to a RFC) were to move to Russia, would we have to get married there and would it be possible to become a citizen of Russia? (And would I have to guard Russian aircraft for two years to fulfill my "duty" to the Motherland?)

Facts, laws..... conjectures, anyone?

By international treaty - The Hauge Convention of Celebration and Recognition of the Validity of Marriages, of which I believe Russia is a signer, states must recognize foreign marriages which are otherwise valid in the location where they took place. So yes, you are already married in Russia too. You would need to register this with ZAGS, which will probably require an appostille for your marriage certificate.

Americans can hold multiple citizenships. When you become a USC, you must renounce all other citizenships. After you renounce them, there is nothing to prevent you from asking for them back. Some countries (Russia) do not allow you to renounce citizenship.

You may (unlikely though) lose American citizenship by becoming a national of a foreign state. Also, by joining a foreign military, serving in a foriegn government, and perhaps by being a war criminal. Even if you somehow do lose American citizenship, your debt to the IRS every year is yours for life.

Yes, you're right.

I want to live in Russia too, Saint Petersburg, to be more precise. But it's not gonna happen for a while...

What makes you think so? It's a different country.


Yes.

Yes, you can. No, not difficult, but it depends on how much you're planning to wire.

No, but you will need to take a driving test to get a Russian DL.


No.


It doesn't matter where you marry.

No, people in Russia are not all cheaters and liars and all that.

As long as you don't live in Chechnya, you should be fine. Good luck.

I think the answer is yes to buildings and maybe to land. Here are my sources:
"Although few expatriates buy residential homes in Russia, there are no restrictions on the purchase of property by foreigners. Property in Russia currently represents a good investment as house prices are rising rapidly and there are currently many properties for sale. Prices in Moscow trebled between 2002 and 2005, although the rate of increase has recently slowed a little.
In Moscow prices for the types of apartments and houses bought by foreigners range from around US$150,000 to US$500,000. Properties can be rented out for a return of around 9-11%, plus capital growth.
The mortgage market is only just opening up, and is expected to boost house prices even further. Much cheaper properties can be bought outside Moscow, including St Petersburg. It is possible to buy a house in a country village for little more than $1,000."
In Russia property transaction costs such as registration of the contract are usually covered by the buyer, but these rarely exceed US5,000. In addition, property agents normally charge the buyer 2-4% of the purchase price. Non-residents are required to pay a tax of 30% of the sale price on selling the property.
http://www.expatfocus.com/expatriate-russia-buying-property
"As we already mentioned, even if this bill becomes a law, some restrictions will apply to the right of foreigners to buy arable land."
http://www.ired.com/news/mkt/ru-foreigners.htm (old article)

Yes, based on personal experience this can be done. I only did it for fun to see if I could earn 13% interest on my $100. Turns out you can! Or whatever the crazy bank rate was in 2004. Although we have only wired money from Russia, I can't imagine why it can't be done. The tax authorities will be more interested in this rather than the banks. Keep in mind you are probably going to spend $25 or so in fees at both banks for each transaction regardless of amount transferred.

Probably not. Others have provided excellent answers.


This will have a huge effect on her AOS. Leaving the country for more than a year and even playing the trick of returning once every year and going right back will look like she has abandoned her residence in the US and may be denied entry upon return.
See my discussion with Yodrak on the topic, although I think he doesn't understand what seeking admission means. An LPR does not seek admission.
http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry575179

Look to the Internal Revenue Code for your answer. I believe income under 88k earned abroad does not get taxed by US authorities. And since all you are doing is stock trading I imagine you'll pay your regular US capital gains tax on that, and the question of paying a Russian tax on that transaction depends on what their tax code says. Since trading stock will become your trade or business I imagine it might get taxed as income and if done in Russia perhaps under their capital gains tax as well. I am no expert in this area, although there are plenty of good books on our tax code and Russian tax code and applicable treaties that might answer this question down in the law library.

Here are some long answers enjoy:
"Temporary & Permanent Residents:
Note: December 2003 - Russian Nationality Rules Ease (Talk Lounge Russia Forums on waytorussia.net).
To become a permanent resident, a foreign citizen should become a temporary resident first. One can become a temporary resident, only if invited by a private person to Russian Federation (private invitation).
The private invitation can be made in the local immigration office (OVIR), at the place where the person, who is inviting you permanently lives. The person who invites you, should fill in a special application form in OVIR and submit it along with a copy of your (the invited person's) passport, and a paid bank transfer. (Note, there are huge queues in OVIRs). It will take about 1 month or longer for OVIR to process this information, and after it is done, a "private invitation" will be issued. This invitation should be posted (not faxed - originals are required by the embassies!) to the person who's invited. Then the person who is invited should submit this invitation, along with the invitation, passport, photos, and other documents required to the Russian embassy, and his private visa will be issued.
The private visa can be valid for a period not longer than 3 months (the exact period is specified in the invitation), and is single-entry only.
After you arrived to Russia with such "private" visa, you should register at the place of residence of the person who invited you. For that there needs to be a proof that this person has the rights for this apartment (obtained in a local housing office), and a notarized letter, where the person states he/she doesn't mind you living in his apartment for a specific period of time (the form is standard - every notary knows it).
After you're registered, if you still want to become a temporary resident, you need to get a pile of documents. The requirements change all the time, so it's better to get an up-to-date list from OVIR. Generally, a foreign citizen will need his passport, private visa, information confirming the place of work / study, information that confirms the place of residence (should be issued by prefecture), information confirming a certain income, medical insurance. The Russian person, who is inviting the foreigner, should confirm the rights for the apartment, bring in all the same documents, confirming place of work / study, income, medical insurance etc. It's better to use a specialized agency's services to file all the documents before submitting them to OVIR. These agencies will not gather the documents for you, however, they know how to submit the documents that OVIR officials like it.
If everything is ok, you'll get the answer in about 1 to 3 months time.
However, the temporary residence is quite limited: a foreign citizen will have certain rights, and be able to enter Russian Federation, but in order to leave Russia, he/she will have to get a special "exit" visa from OVIR every time (it takes 2 to 4 weeks to get it)! So, imagine, you need to leave Russia fast, you can't do it, because you have to apply (queues), and then wait, and only then get a single-exit visa.
In other words, this process is not worth going through at the moment, unless you really need a temporary Russian residence. The rules are not easier for spouses as well...
The only good thing is that the rules may change soon, and become easier. We will monitor the situation, and as soon as there's a significant change, we'll update information in this section."
http://www.waytorussia.net/RussianVisa/Status.html
"Here are the new regulations that concern foreigners living in Russia (or foreigners, NOT from former CIS countries, who want to get Russian citizenship):
1. If a foreign citizen has been married to a Russian person for not less than 3 years AND is living in Russia at the moment, then he / she can get Russian citizenship through a simplified procedure. That is, there's no need to have a minimal period of consecutive stay in Russia after which you can apply for the Russian nationality.
If you are married to a Russian person for less than 3 years, then you don't have any advantages compared to anybody else. You will still need to present (1) a proof that you has been living in Russia for the last 5 years and stayed in Russia not less than 75% of all this time; (2) proof of sufficient income; (3) proof that you know Russian language; (4) permit of stay.
2. If a foreign citizen has at least one parent who has Russian citizenship and is living in Russia at the moment, the same simplified rules as described above apply (no need for minimum period of stay).
If you want to use these rules, you should apply before 1 January 2006. Also, note, that to apply for Russian citizenship under these new rules, you still need to get a permit of stay. The permit of stay can be obtained only if you arrived to Russia on a private visa (made after the private invitation). To ease everything up it is better to ask your wife (or parents) to make the personal invitation for you. This process is quite long and hard, and the permit of stay is a very inflexible document (e.g. you'll need to get an "exit visa" every time you leave Russia). However, if you are after Russian citizenship and you are OK staying in Russia most of the time, then these new rules will be good news for you.
Please, note, that the law will be implemented on 16 December 2003, and it might take some time for the Russian immigration officials to "accept" it.
Also, most of the new rules were made to ease the process of getting citizenship for the citizens of former CIS countries, and there can be unclear interpretations of some things written in the law by officials.
http://waytorussia.net/TalkLounge/conversation457.html

Exactly, great counter to Jewel12's response. And fine business men end up dead all the time for not wanting to share with the crooks. And for regular people, why does everyone in Russia have to mess with the scales at the bazaar? Just raise the damn price if you want more for your meat but sell me exactly how much I see on the scale!

See the links in the previous post. They talk about military service as well. Only if you are between the ages of 18-27 will you be forced into compulsory military service. And no body is dying to join the military in Russia. People bribe and pay their way out as best possible. The deaths from all the hazing events is incredible. People try to get off by "being physically or mentally" unfit as well.

And a certification by the consulate in the US. Otherwise you are right back to unrecognized marriage.

The problem with becoming a Russian citizen is that you must bring an official paper saying you have given up all current citizenships. See instructions for simplified Russian citizenship below. I am not sure if this rule applies if you do the registration / marriage style of obtaining citizenship in Russia itself. It may not. It does if you try to get Russian citizenship through a consulate here in the states.
"7. Иностранные граждане также представляют документ полномочного органа иностранного государства, подтверждающий обращение заявителя об отказе от имеющегося иного гражданства"
http://www.consulrussia.org/citizen.htm#&#...;ый

How does one really renounce their all other citizenships after becoming US citizen?
Stop using other passports? return passports to respective consulates in US and get
'Cancelled' stamped on them? anything else?

Here are the instructions if you are interested:
"A person wishing to renounce his or her U.S. citizenship must voluntarily and with intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship:
1. appear in person before a U.S. consular or diplomatic officer,
2. in a foreign country (normally at a U.S. Embassy or Consulate); and
3. sign an oath of renunciation
See the link below for more details.
http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

Well I actually meant to ask other way around.

Renouncing foreign citizenship after acquiring US citizenship. But I guess this would be
specific to the laws of the country of which the citizenship is getting renounced. Is there anything
in US laws to this effect?

Sure, not a problem. Pursuant to the instructions at the Russian Consulate in San Francisco the instructions are listed below with my short summary translation:
"ВЫХОД ИЗ ГРАЖДАНСТВА РОССИЙСКОЙ ФЕДЕРАЦИИ
В соответствии с Федеральным законом «О гражданстве Российской Федерации», вступившим в силу 1 июля 2002 года, граждане Российской Федерации, проживающие на территории иностранного государства, могут оформить выход из гражданства Российской Федерации через дипломатическое представительство или консульское учреждение Российской Федерации. Для этого представляются следующие документы:
[According to the laws of Russia you can renounce your citizenship at consulates abroad if you meet the following requirements]
1. Заявление в двух экземплярах (бланк заявления можно получить в Генконсульстве). Заполнению в заявлении подлежат все графы. Заявление составляется на русском языке. Бланк заявления заполняется от руки или с использованием технических средств (пишущих машинок, компьютеров). При заполнении бланка заявления не допускается использование сокращений и аббревиатур, а также внесение исправлений. Ответы на содержащиеся в бланке заявления вопросы должны быть исчерпывающими. Текст заявления, выполненный от руки, должен быть разборчивым;
[Statement written by you declaring your intent to renounce Russian citizenship].
2. Документ, удостоверяющий российское гражданство заявителя (действительный российский загранпаспорт);
[Proof of Russian citizenship, i.e. Russian passport]
3. Три фотографии паспортного размера (3х4 см);
[Three photographs].
4. Документ, дающий право на проживание в США (грин-карта, сертификат о натурализации, паспорт США и пр.), а также его копию и перевод на русский язык в печатном виде.
[Proof of ability to stay in the US, i.e. US green card or passport].
5. Документ о снятии с регистрационного учета по месту жительства в Российской Федерации (в случае отсутствия этих данных в паспорте заявителя);
[Document proving absence of registration in Russia].
6. Документ полномочного органа иностранного государства о наличии у заявителя иного гражданства или подтверждение возможности предоставления заявителю иного гражданства в случае его выхода из гражданства Российской Федерации;
[Proof of being affilaiated with another state (e.g. they don't want to leave you a stateless person].
7. Документ налогового органа Российской Федерации об отсутствии задолженности по уплате налогов.
Для получения вышеназванного документа физическим лицом, желающим выйти из гражданства Российской Федерации, в налоговый орган вместе с обращением представляются документы, подтверждающие последнее место жительства данного физического лица на территории Российской Федерации (РСФСР) по месту нахождения соответствующего налогового органа.
Такими документами могут являться паспорт или документ, его заменяющий; в случае изменения фамилии (имени, отчества) – документ, подтверждающий в соответствии с законодательством Российской Федерации изменение фамилии (имени, отчества).
Налоговые органы в десятидневный срок рассматривают представленные заявителем документы и принимают решение о выдаче справки. Справки выдаются на бланке налогового органа и содержат следующие обязательные реквизиты:
дата и номер справки,
фамилия, имя, отчество должностного лица и наименование налогового органа, выдавшего справку.
Справка об отсутствии задолженности по уплате налогов подписывается руководителем (его заместителем) налогового органа и заверяется гербовой печатью налогового органа.
При выявлении факта наличия задолженности по уплате налогов, либо непредставления заявителем документов, необходимых для выдачи справки об отсутствии задолженности по уплате налогов, налоговый орган письменно извещает заявителя о невозможности выдачи данной справки с указанием причины отказа.
Заявления граждан Российской Федерации, не имевших места жительства на территории Российской Федерации (РСФСР), с приложением соответствующих документов направляются в Управление международных налоговых отношений МНС России по адресу: 127381, Москва, ул. Неглинная, д. 23.
Справка об отсутствии задолженности по уплате налогов, выдаваемая Управлением международных налоговых отношений МНС России, подписывается уполномоченным должностным лицом МНС России и заверяется печатью Управления международных налоговых отношений МНС России;
[Document from Russia proving an absence of Russian tax debt, the rest of this concerns the process of how to obtain this document].
8. Оплата консульского сбора в сумме 550 долларов в форме «money order» (400 долларов - оформление выхода из российского гражданства, 150 долларов - выдача справки об отсутствии российского гражданства)
[Paying 550 dollars!]
9. При положительном решении вопроса о выходе заявителя из российского гражданства ему выдается справка о прекращении гражданства Российской Федерации. Заявитель также должен сдать в Генконсульство загранпаспорт гражданина Российской Федерации, внутренний паспорт гражданина Российской Федерации и вкладыш в свидетельство в свидетельство о рождении (при его наличии)..
Заявление подается заявителем лично. В случае, если заявитель не может лично подать заявление в связи с обстоятельствами, имеющими исключительный характер и подтвержденными документально, заявление и необходимые документы могут переданы для рассмотрения через другое лицо, либо направлены по почте. В этом случае подлинность подписи лица, подписавшего заявление, и соответствие копии документа, удостоверяющего личность, его подлиннику удостоверяются нотариальными записями с последующим проставлением на них Апостиля.
Все представляемые вместе с заявлением документы, выполненные не на русском языке, подлежат переводу на русский язык.
Заявление считается принятым к рассмотрению со дня подачи заявителем всех необходимых и надлежащим образом оформленных документов с личной подписью заявителя и датой.
Срок рассмотрения заявлений и принятие по ним решений осуществляется в срок до шести месяцев со дня подачи заявления и представления всех необходимых документов, оформленных надлежащим образом.
Выход из гражданства Российской Федерации не допускается, если гражданин Российской Федерации:
- имеет не выполненное перед Российской Федерацией обязательство, установленное федеральным законом;
- привлечен компетентными органами Российской Федерации в качестве обвиняемого по уголовному делу, либо в отношении него имеется вступивший в законную силу и подлежащий исполнению обвинительный приговор суда;
- не имеет иного гражданства и гарантий его приобретения.
[Concerns the statement one makes, time period, and how to make all of this official, also includes reasons why a request would be denied, e.g. criminal record, tax issues, and other such obligations owed].
http://www.consulrussia.org/citizen.htm#??...????????_???????

US law is not really involved in this process unless you consider that some US documents are needed for renouncation to be accept by Russian officials.

I am not aware of our naturalizaiton oath to require renouncation of prior citizenships although the following language might lead one to conclude that it does:
"I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen;"
For the rest of the oath see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_citiz...(United_States)
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/N-400.pdf

So, if dual-citizenship is not possible, what rights would an AM have in Russia if living with his RW?

Say for instance, we were to move to Russia and buy a flat of our own, am I legally entitled to 50% of that flat, our car, our savings, etc., like she is here? Or, am I just like any other tourist/businessman? And what about my right to stay there?

I can't imagine why you would want Russian citizenship. Business visa and work permit are fine for just about
anything you would want to do there.

You can have Russian permanent residency - "Вид на житель�тво". That'll give you lots of rights, I imagine. I researched the subject a couple years ago when we wanted to move there with hubster, but he changed his mind on that, so I stopped researching.

Edit: Your marriage will give you the right to 50% of the property, regardless of your citizenship status.

I think if we decide to move to Russia I will go the temporary & permanant residence route. There is no way I would give up my U.S citizenship.

Is the permanent residency similar to how the green card works here? Basically, how would I legally stay in Russia if I moved there with my wife? Would I enter on one of those "business" visas (multi-entry, one year, through a service or something) and then transition to permanent residence?

Anyone done it or know how to do it?

Why? Why on Earth would you want to?! Just give me one good reason why you would want to live in Russia? I love my country to death, I want my kids to see it, I want to be buried there but America is so much easier to live in!!!
Anyways, it does work like green card here, sort of. Basically what you do when you come there, you register first as a tourist or whatever visa you came with, then there is usually a list of papers you need to get permanent residence based on different reasons. Than you collect all necessary papers, stay in lines for at least a week (and I mean it, a week non-stop, people come every day at 4 am to keep their place in line, stay till closing and come again at 4 am next day not to lose a spot, usually takes about a week altogether and God forbid if you forgot some document, another week of lining then!) and they take all you have collected and tell you when to come to get the document itself. Another week of waiting in lines and ta-da! You have a residency!

Well, I have an idea, but I haven't done it. First you will get a temporary resident permit (on the basis of marriage). After one year with it you can apply for permanent residency. Permanent resident card is valid for 5 years and it's renewable. No conditions.

For a temporary resident permit all you need to do is be married to a Russian citizen. In this case, you won't be subject to immigration quotas. they will do a background check on you etc., and you will get it no problem as long as you're not a terrorist. I don't know what documents you need to provide with the application, but I'm sure all US documents will have to be translated and certified.

As far as I'm aware, you won't need a business visa, but I may just be full of it - I have no personal experience with it aside from researching this stuff for my hubby. There are lawyers who will do all the paperwork for you, but I don't know how much they can charge.

In 2004 I asked about this option, at the time I thought this might be a "cheap" option to avoid spending $100 on an inflexible single entry 90 day visa. As it turns out, you do need to fill out a stack of documents. Run the gauntlet of medical tests (mental, drug, and general). And hardest of all get a police certificate from the US that is translated, appostiled, and certified. Only translation and copy of passport is sufficient. Get a bank account. You must enter on a private visa to start the process. Then they collect all the documents and 6 months later the "invitation" to get a temporary residence permit arrives at your local Russian address. Supposedly you are either supposed to return to Russia again on a private visa or take that thing to the consulate abroad and get your temporary permit. After that you are allowed to work and exit only after again seeing the "OVIR" or whatever they call it now and get an exit visa each time. Then after so many years you apply for the permanent permit. The exit procedure goes on until you acquire Russian citizenship.
The cost is actually less than $100 for all the documents / medical tests you need to do within Russia, but that police certificate will cost at least $100 if you count the appostile / translation / mobile notary / certification costs.
If you are seriously considering this option have a local ask about all the requirements prior to you departing the US for Russia. Once in Russia it is pretty difficult to get a personal document from the US,

Honestly, the only way any of us would ever consider any of this is in connection with an expat job. Almost a necessity, since that means making 10 times as much as you ever would in Russia. On top of that, your employer will handle all of this for you.

Look at what US expats are doing in Russia, and start planning a career change.

Really, I have no desire to be in a big expat job. (It would be nice, but not necessary. Owning "Slim's Pizza" would be cool too, but also not necessary.) I wish to live the simple life, work at the local shop or at the docks or something like that, kick my feet up at night and drink a nice cold beer with my wife. That's it. If that's in a small village near the coast or a big skyscraper in Moscow, doesn't really matter to me.

Sounds like it's a real PITA to get PR status. However, I would assume that like all other things in Russia, there's someone I could pay a "fee" to that would gladly take care of all the papers for me. I really don't feel like standing in line for a week!

Slim are you ready to take this job for $200-$400 a month working 12 hour days and getting paid only after you beg the boss for two months?

Slim would do anything to get that beer at the end of the day.

Actually my wife and I spoke often if her K1 didnt get approved what we would do. I realized on the two trips I took to Irkutsk that there are no Mexican restaurants anywhere, no Taco Bell, nothin. I would open a restaurant and make tacos, burritos, enchiladas, sopas, all kinds of tasty things and the people would think what is this wonderful food, it has flavor and something they call spices. A strange man runs the place, he makes mexican food but he is american and of Polish decent. It doesnt make sense but it good. And if the restaurant didnt work out I would at least have mexican food to eat myself.

And slim if the dock job didnt work out you could come work for me, my waitresses are going to wear cute little uniforms.

I work 12 hour days now and I only get "paid" after I beg the boss (my wife) for some of my money back. Plus, $200-$400/month buys a lot of beer in Russia!

Thank you for the invitation Thomas! I once was in a band called...... 4th Meal!!! (dodooo dodood *air guitar* doooo wheeeeooop) and I'm a big fan of the "spicy" stuff.

You lost control of your money that fast?! I am amazed. She has gotten a full grasp of how our financial system works, from credit cards, bills. checks, direct deposit, on line payments, etc.? All the fun stuff I do exclusively here.

It sure will. But renting even a small one bedroom in Siberia will run you $100 to $300 a month! Now you see the problem? And what about all the other costs? Transportation, food, clothing, etc. It's only fun when your salary is $2000-$4000 a month and you live in Russia.

I still do those things exclusively as well because what she hasn't grasped is the fact that if we only have $1000 and we have $985 in bills, we can't go to a nice dinner. Well, not unless you count Taco Bell as a nice dinner. (4th Meal!!!)




Fun is all relative. I had some of the most fun I've ever had in my life while staying in Korea and I only had a few hundred bucks a month after paying my bills back in the States. I'm hoping to have no bills back in the States by the time we go to Russia. We should have a free place to stay too, so that will help a lot. I realize no matter where we go there are going to be bills and money is going to be tight, but I'm pretty sure it will be fairly easy to live the simple life. No credit? No problem. Literally.

I miss my country a great deal. I think if something happened to my marriage, I would just pack up my bags and go back in a heartbeat.

The funniest thing is, I didn't miss it that much before, while I was settling down, learning and exploring the U.S. - it was fun. It still is, but over time that I've spent here, I have become increasingly nostalgic, and I haven't learned to cope with the fact that I'm being treated as a foreigner. I've been learning English all my life since I was a little kid, and I've been l imagining how cool it would be to spend some time in an English-speaking country and blend in with the locals.

Well, never happened. The reality hit me harder than I could have possibly imagined. I understand that I will always be a foreigner here - no matter how many years I spend in this country. It's hard. What's even harder is that one of my teachers at school, who lived in China and Zambia for a long time, told me that once you spend a few years in another country, you won't feel completely at home in your native country any more, and you won't feel at home abroad either. Wow, great news I suppose, it's true. And that means I have no home any more. Bingo.

Another thing is my job. I hate it. Sure, I can find another one, but I can't get a decent job without networking, which I suck at. Back home I wouldn't get a problem getting a great job with great money and benefits, and in a multi-national company like Wrigley or KPMG, not some crappy accounting firm with two and a half accountants here

It's been very frustrating. If not for my husband, who has been my life-line for years now, I wouldn't be here. I don't know - I may get used to it, but what scares me is that I was very happy here before, and I'm not any more. Well, they say it takes a few years to become homesick, I guess it's true. I hope it will pass.

I had a bad day today, and, as always, there's nothing to do at work, so I chose to rant here.

I totally understand what you are going through, but I am experiencing it the other way around. I moved to Ukraine 4 years ago and loved it here. I loved the culture, the people and was happier here than in the States. When I returned home last year for 9 months, I found that I had two homes and I didn't feel 100% happy in either one of them.

In Ukraine I get tired of being the American who is thought of as super rich and always gets treated differently. I get tired of the attitudes that some have against Americans - that some still think I am a spy

In America I find that I have changed very much and can't relate to all of the things that I used to be able to relate to. The concerns that people have there and the materialism (it is in Ukraine too, of course, just in a different way...)

But, since I married a local - well, he is Russian, but where I live in Ukraine most people have Russian roots and see Russia and Eastern Ukraine as mostly the same... anyway, I have been doing things I would never have done as a single American girl here and even the simplest things are so difficult and require pay-offs. So, I get frustrated with the level of corruption here and how everyone seems to be on the take.... from the government offices that we have to deal with to the little old "sweet" babushka who lied to us and stole $30 from us last month. I understand now why a lot of people are so on edge all the time and why they are so mistrustful of strangers.

I understand the OPs desire to move to Russia and spend time there. I felt the same way 4 years ago. But now if I didn't have a job that I love (I work with kids who are going through some tough stuff at home), I would go home. Life is just so much harder here and it is heartbreaking to watch how so many lives are destroyed through lack of opportunities, alcoholism, etc.

Hang in there, Jewel, I think it is normal for us to get nostalgic about home... but as my friend reminded me last night, it is easy to romanticize and remember things better than they are.

Wow, Natalie, you do understand me!! It makes me feel better already

I may remember things better than they are, but at the same time, I'm still in touch with my college friends in Moscow. All of them already have great jobs, they buy cars and condos, and here I am - renting an apartment from a slumlord, driving a used Honda and making crappy money in an admin job It makes me sad I try to think of unpleasant things, like Moscow subway during the rush hour or traffic jams, or the terrible weather (it rains practically all the time), and it helps a little

Look, people, there is no paradise on Earth!
It sucks here as much as it sucks there, you either can handle it and move on or not and than, go back home to your mommy and daddy!
It is prevailing in the American attitude to life though to expect the absolute happiness from the reality and do anything possible to get it without losing hope that it can be done. That's childish. Life is horrible by definition, people are born into misery and die in misery, the trick is to find a moment or a person that's good and hold on to it.
What do you expect being an immigrant? You are homeless per se, not already belonging "there" and not yet (and never) belonging here. You knew what you were getting into. You make a sacrifice to be with a person you love, so be it!
It won't get better ever, just because of the way feelings work, so simply remember why you did it at the first place, Jewel!

Wow, CityCat, you must be a Buddhist!

Well, it's kinda weird not to have a place where you can feel 100% at home, but maybe it takes some getting used to. Maybe not - maybe I'm gonna feel uncomfortable for the rest of my life. I will know for sure in 10 years - it seems like enough time to figure out

Wow, I think I will have to bookmark that post and read it every morning at the start of the day. Makes me real happy that I find my life happy and fulfilling and enjoy every minute of it. I do sort of remember feeling like that when I was married to my first wife though.

See? Very American: "I am happy and everyone should be" That's exactly what I was talking about... Big big mistake!

It is a quote from some religious book, Christian, but I am not particularly sure, Catholic or Orthodox or maybe something else, don't remember. It's a good quote - it has helped me a lot in life.

That's completely true for me, at least. I lived abroad for a couple years, and whenever I came home, I felt like I was missing something. Still do, and can't wait to move out of here. I'm comfortable here, but I can't say I feel like I'm "home."




Sounds like your job is really not that bad. Bad day = VJ time. Can't be too hard to handle. The problem most people have here in the U.S. when it comes to jobs and being happy is they think in terms irrelevant to thier own. For example, you're basing the status of your life and happiness on what your friends from college are doing. You're saying to yourself that you're not successful and happy because you don't have a nice car and a condo. Well, where you live in California, driving a POS Honda and renting a slum isn't really that bad, either. I bet you're doing a helluva lot better than a lot of people out there. It's all relative to what you want. If you want a condo, move to the Midwest. Condos here are probably half the price of an apartment there. Nice car? No problem. Cars can be had for zero down! You've got credit based on your income.... use it! That's the American Dream! Everything you want and working a s#!tty job for 40 years to pay for it.

It's not that bad! (I understand the healing power of a good rant..... just come on back to reality. It's OK too!)



Just a small aside - Think about why Americans smile in pictures. (We want to "look" happy!)