He is waiting on his passport in the UK now, we were told he could come to the US Visa Free for 90 days, is this true? And if so can we get married if we decide then and he apply to stay from here? Another thing is there is a big age difference me being the older, will that be a problem? We are buying a round trip ticket as it says we have to do for Visa Free, and he is not leaving his job just incase he has to go back.

so Question #1. Is Visa Free from the UK to the US legal?

Question #2. Can we get married and him apply from the US and stay or will he have to return does anyone know?

Question #3. Will our age difference play a factor?

Hi FXI, I'll try to help until someone with vastly more knowledge than I comes in and saves the day

In answer to number 1:


Question 2: He can enter and get married, but then he should return to UK and you apply for a K3 spousal visa. I have read on here that it's possible for him to stay, but you may have problems proving that you didn't commit visa fraud when it comes time to adjust status. Coming to the US and intending to get married and stay here (i.e. immigrate) without using a fiance visa, is visa fraud.

QUestion 3: I suppose it depends on many factors. How big is your age difference? I am 10 years older than my fiance, but I'm not worried about the age difference. We have an established relationship and plenty of proof of this. I have read quite a few people on VJ say that their age difference didn't cause problems, but I've also read the opposite.

Again, if I didn't really help, I am sure someone else will come along who can help you more. I'm just beginning my journey and the people here have been a great help. But nothing replaces doing lots of research on your own! The guides here are really helpful, and actually, so is the USCIS website (or it was for me anyway). Good luck!

Thanks so much for your answers, we were hoping he could stay once he got here, because of the financial burden but if not then he will return.

It would be illegal for him to stay if he did not enter on the appropriate visa. Some people, even some lawyers, will tell you it's possible - and it is possible, as people have done it - but it's not the right thing to do.

Depending on your job/financial situation in the US, you could consider returning to the UK with him after the wedding in the US. This is what my English husband and I did. The US to UK immigration process is pretty expensive but exceptionally fast and easy for legitimate couples. If you did it by mail, it would take around a month after the wedding. If you went in person (Chicago, LA and New York are the only places with offices), you could do everything, even the wedding, within two weeks. Then there wouldn't be any separation after the wedding.

Once in the UK, you could either immediately file with a US service center as long as you have a friend or family member with a US address you can trust. Or you could wait six months and then file directly with the London USCIS office, which would then take around another six months for your husband to have an immigrant visa.

Living expenses in the UK are higher, and your situation in the US may just not allow for that, but perhaps it's something to consider.

He can come to the USA without a visa; it's called the VWP, or visa waiver program, and the UK participates. However, he DOES need a passport. They won't even let him on the plane in the UK without one, or at least they shouldn't.

He can marry you in the USA without a fiance visa but it can't be the primary purpose of his visit. If he tells the immigration folks that he's getting married and doesn't have a fiance visa, they may send him home.

He will have to return to the UK for the K-3/CR1 process. He cannot stay in the USA to adjust status.

Your age difference won't be a factor right now, but it could be down the road. How big of an age difference are we talking about?


Another poster recommended relocating to the UK. Having just left the UK after spending six years there, I would not recommend it at all. Living expenses are obscene there.

The UK is a wonderful place to live and work.... it has a lot of history and culture and the people are friendly... do let one persons bad expirence put anyone off thinking about the UK as a option of somewhere good to live....

Kez

Well if it's that great, maybe she should just relocate there permanently.

Personally I think it's silly to move to another country just to speed up a visa application by a few months because it's extremely expensive and stressful to move overseas. I know a bit about this, having done it twice already.

The USA is also a wonderful place to live and work...it ALSO has a lot of history, since things did happen here before Europeans arrived, and we have a massive variety of cultures, languages, etc. here. I think the USA is more diverse than the UK. Dallas is certainly more diverse than York!!!! I'll never live in the UK again; couldn't pay me enough money.

I agree. Depsite the living cost (which I've found it only really bad for housing, eating out and electricial goods), I've loved my experience here in the UK these past two years getting to know my husband's culture and spending time with his family and friends.

When my husband came to the US and we married and then returned to the UK, he bluntly told the immigration officer that he was there to marry me and then we were going to go live in the UK. He brought a letter from his uni and copy of our lease, but she didn't even ask to see it.

It wasn't a suggestion to speed up the process. It would actually take roughly the same time. It was a suggestion to not be separated and to have the experience of the country where her future husband grew up and lives.

Plenty of Americans like living in the UK, but not all of us. A childhood friend of mine lives in Mayfair in London and likes it OK; her American husband adores it because he makes more money in the City than he could in the USA, but that's not usually the case. It's easy to like life in the UK when you're pulling in millions of pounds a year and live in one of London's swankiest neighborhoods.

I'm just expressing my opinion and I don't see any need to sugarcoat it; some people really don't like living in the UK, Brits included, and I think a variety of opinions is helpful when making such a monumental decision.

The cost of living really depends on where you live in the US and where you live in the UK - there can be much cheaper rents to be had in London than in NYC for example. I initially moved to Nottingham from Boston and found it much cheaper overall.

I moved from Scotland to Boston and it costs me 3 x more to live here in Boston than it did in Scotland.....

Kez

Boston's really expensive, though. I live in Dallas and have always lived in Texas in the USA, so the UK is severe sticker shock for me.

Nottingham's also not really that expensive, relatively speaking. There are much spendier places in the UK. My soon-to-be-ex-sister-in-law lives in Nottingham and it's cheaper than York.

1.) As mentioned, the Visa Waiver Program is a widely used way for people from many countries to visit participating countries. You get 90 days (or whatever they feel like allowing you, up to 90 days) to visit and then you must leave or file an document requesting an extention.

2.) If he enters intending to marry you and (this is key) REMAIN in the United States, he needs to use the proper visa to do so. The Visa Waiver Program is not intended to be a short cut to immigration. If he enters intending to visit, then he is using the VWP appropriately. People who have entered under the VWP have married and adjusted status successfully. But some others have not. It's a fine line between a "risk" and fraud. Since - and I sincerely don't mean this as snark - you are invovled in a relationship with a non-US citizen and you know nothing about the VWP, a very, very basic tool, I think before anyone flies anywhere or does anything, you need to start some heavy-duty research. Go to www.uscis.gov and start from there. Then come back here and read the Guides and the FAQ sections of this site. Then read and think some more.

3.) How much older? There's no legal requirement regarding ages, so long as both of you are old enough to legally marry. But it can raise eyebrows and get you some extra questions because, culturally, both countries are less predisposed to accept an age gap where the woman is older. Sucky, but a fact.

But there are some other issues not explicitly stated in your post that could make things much more difficult for you - especially if you ended up in the #2 situation where he comes here under the VWP and you end up married trying to adjust status that way.

Have you met in person before? Have you ever seen this guy in the flesh? He's never been out of the UK it seems, since he has no passport. Did you meet him in person over there? Been to the UK?

It's not necessarily how the authorities would see things, but, if you have a significantly younger foreigner arriving and marrying a person he's never seen in person before . . . . could raise a flag (and I'm usually not one to warn of red-flag-waving).

Be careful and do your homework on this before either of you make huge financial, emotional, and legal commitments that you may regret later.

All excellent advice.

Okay well after reading all this, I paniced so I called the INS, and since he is coming legally on a Visa Free. We can get married, and they gave me a list of forms we have to file immediately... But he can stay with me in the states... She said since he is not coming mainly to marry me but to see the country and we aew already engaged if we decide to get married in the 90 days, the sooner the better, so we can get the forms filed in a timely manner... So this is what we are going to do, I will update all as I know more... Thanks all for the advice...

Well, it's all about intent. You are intending to use the VWP to marry and then stay in the USA. I personally class that as a fraudulent use of that visa. You can get married on a VWP, but it has to be a spur of the moment thing. You are planning it, it is what you intend to do once he arrives. That isn't spur of the moment...

But, it is your risk I guess. You've been informed of all the risks and I hope you are also aware of the consequences should your plan not work out.

Good luck.

FFX - it isn't INS anymore. Hasn't been for awhile. But a larger point here - if you feel you've been given reliable information from a proper government source, I'd urge you to leave this message board and proceed with your plans. Or, you can stay, and read the discussion that will likely follow, get yourself second guessing, have a few more panics, and then move ahead with some plan at some point anyway.

None of us here is an immigration lawyer or border agent, ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) official, that I know of. We can give thoughts and information based on what we've read, seen, heard about, experienced, and what we *think.*

But no one here can give you a magic answer. If an INS/ICE source gave you the information you related above, then take it and do what you will with it.

Be verry careful in what you do with this advice you have been given.....

Lets say you do just as they sugest and he arrives on a VWP and you get married and file for AOS, you get to the interview and the officer asks you when you decided to get married and you tell her/him the sorry of how you called USCIS and we told it was ok for your now husband to enter on a VWP{ and marry and file to remain in the US.... your interviewer then tells you that this was incorrect and that unless you have this information in writing and signed by the officer giving the information your AOS is denied, and that you have commited visa fraud.... your husband now has to leave the USA and return to his own country and you have to file for a K3/CR1 for him to come back....

If he was already here and you decided to get married and for him to remain all on the spur of the moment, then yes you could file for him to stay and do AOS... but as he is not here and you are planning on how to do this you need to check it out with an immigration lawyer before you do something that may end up getting your future husband banned from the USA for who klnow how long.....

Kez

Yes, because after all, people are only giving their opinions about the situation so as to scare the OP.

OP - Have you ever met him in person?

Also, technically this will be visa fraud. As mags said, you need to be aware of the risks.

No, Tracy, I didn't say that. I said if she feels she has an answer she can rely on, then don't come here for more information or advice. As noted, the OP really doesn't seem to know much about international travel, let alone immigration procedure. She described her reaction to the discussion here (none of it too scarey or with too many exclamation points, which can be unusual for this topic) as causing her to "panic." So I would recommend to her - not a course of immigration action - but for her to refrain from visiting this site. If she's looking for hard and fast "answers" - as it seems she is, then she's barking up the wrong message board. She's been presented with the risks, the facts, and the best information the board has to offer.

She needs to do a helluva lot more homework, and, as I mentioned in my first post in this thread, probably give some serious thought to this whole situation because if she does do what the "INS" person suggests, I think she would face a steeper uphill battle than other couples might have because it seems from what she's said that she's never even stood face-to-face with him.

If you note my responses to the OP in this thread, you'll find that I'm much more on your side and the side of those expressing big "Warning!" messages than not.

That doesn't sound like anything I've ever heard/read about. I'd definitely check into that again before doing it. I've read alot of posts on here well people have been giving wrong information from people who should have known what they were talking about. I recommend doing research before taking a huge step like that. I hate waiting and searched for a way to keep my fiance with me, but I didn't find any way to do it, so he's back home. You'll probably just have to bite the bullet and wait like everyone else.

That's not passing the sniff test with me either, but I'm not an expert.

Meh... you're probably more of an expert than yer average 'INS' 1-800 phone-answerer.

USCIS phone personnel give out half-baked information everyday. We don't call it the 'misinformation line' for nothing around here, you know.

If the "intent to immigrate" question ever came up at the adjustment interview, and the OP relayed this story to the adjudicating officer.....well, anyone care to comment on what might happen?

... and how about if they declared that intention at the POE, when asked by an immigration officer about the purpose of their visit...? "I'm getting married and staying for good".... mmm, first plane back to Heathrow, perhaps?

I agree RJ & Feather. It doesn't even sound like the OP has met him in person.....? Another GIANT red flag?

Oh, hell yes.

There's a member here (let's leave her nameless for the moment) who actually had a K1 filed. They decided they wanted to marry during a visit that occured while the filing was in process - before the petition was approved. They actually went for Infopass and were told by the agent to cancel the K1, marry and adjust. They did and subsequently she adjusted just fine.

Soooooooooo, I'm just saying - strange advice gets handed out everyday.



And yet it could be said that since they had not met, there probably were no definite plans to marry?

Could be....

Before Wes and I met face-to-face, we felt we were 'in love' and might want to marry. We had already researched visa possibilities and knew there was no other way for us to be together.

Being the old farts that we are though, we knew 'real life' might not translate and we might be incompatible as hell once we got together.

Nevertheless, before his first visit, we still discussed possible immigration and marriage. He used to call it - "if things go according to plan" - meaning if we could still stand each other after we met!

Kinda hard for folks who have not met online to understand, I think. But true feelings, nonetheless.

If I may add my 2 cents, I would like to agree with TimsDaisy. You aren't sure on VWP, your calling it INS, I think you need to do more homework. Ok, that sounds kinda mean, dont mean it to be but I dont know how else to say it! USCIS phone operators (spelling?) often give out random advice. I was once told that my I-129f shouldn't be sent to NVC, told that I hadn't been approved when I had my NVC letter in my hand etc. Perhaps make an Infopass appt or speak with an immigration lawyer (experienced with family based immigration) before making any decisions. Better to be safe than sorry.

To be fair, the OP doesn't actually say she has never met her boyfriend/fiance etc. Unless I'm reading via my botty today and have totally missed it...

I didn't read it either, mags. Your botty is fine.

I said 'sounds like she hasn't, not hasn't.

You weren't the only one surmising, Dev. It's no biggie.

Wonderful! *pats botty*

Actually, my reason for mentioning it was mainly because a.) I thought I might have been going insane and b.) I didn't want the thread to go off on a "OMG they've never met!" kind of thing.




Aye, wasn't directed at anyone in particular.

It's an unenviable position to be in. From reading the post and the lack of clarification or defense of her postion, I suspect there is an element of 'I will keep asking the question until I hear the answer I want to hear' in this. Many of us on here have been in the position where we have met the person we want to live the rest of our lives with (or hope to) and the bottom line is, we are not on here swapping experiences and advice for nothing. There are prescribed ways of doing the K1/K3 visa process and you ignore them at your peril. Although experiences tend to vary, the format of what we are all following is pretty similar.

I wish them well, however feel that they are heading for a fall if they just listen to one potentially misguided telephone call. Personally I would ensure the guidance received from 'INS' was at the very least case specific and written on a formal headed letter before proceeding with any plans.

I think that's a great piece of advice, selly -- get it in writing. I would not want to be gambling in this sort of situation myself. I can speak from experience that it certainly is possible to do AOS from entry under the VWP -- my ex-husband and I did just that with no major hiccups (we ended up abandoning the GC to settle in the UK), but that was well over a decade ago and I expect they are much more stringent these days when considering such applications for AOS.

Well, after alot of crying, and alot of reading all this..

I called and talked to him last night...

I told him everything I was told by USCIS and by you people here..

We talked for over 2 hours (another big phone bill), when I hung up with him he was crying.. but hurting him now will be easier than him getting hurt later on...

Hes young he will find someone else, someone is own age... I am deleting my membership from this site as I will no longer need it... I cant take him from everything hes known all his life, into a country as cold and cruel as the US... Marrying me he will already loose his family and friends, if he did stay hed loose his job and home too, he says it doesnt matter, but it does to me... God, why are the Brits so down on the US???

Thanks for all the help.. But honestly, you did more accusing than helping...

Um, I'd say the majority of the answers you got were from people from the US, not from Brits. And I think everyone was trying to help you here - 'yes, the VWP can be used to enter the US with the full intent to immigrate, no problem at all' may have been what you wanted to hear, but it's not true. That's why there are marriage-based visas, for spouses and fiance(e)s. No 'accusations', at all. And certainly nobody saying you shouldn't be with this guy - any particular reason why he can't come and visit you, you can see how you get on, and if it works between you, go the proper route (like the vast majority of people here) and begin the visa process?

I'm sorry, but to blame the people who have advised you here for YOUR decision not to continue the relationship is ridiculous. You're on a forum full of people who have either been through this whole process already or are right in the middle of it (or just beginning it) now - NOBODY is suggesting for one second that you should end it with this guy, and I don't know where you would get that idea from!

Calm down... if he's important to you and it's meant to be, then you'll find a way of working it out. And if you'll end it all because it seems too much hassle to get him to the US, then... well, it's obviously NOT meant to be.

Edited to add... you will find HUGE amounts of invaluable advice and support here, if you're prepared to listen to it rather than go off the deep end and start flinging accusations around just because you're not getting the answer you want to hear. This site is fantastic.... should the two of you eventually decide that you want to bring him to the US to be with you, you will be able to get advice, support, etc etc etc, every step of the way - even if you're just trying to decide IF it's what you want to do, and how best to go about doing it (ie which visa to opt for)... but throwing a fit because people are taking the time to point out the flaws in your plan won't get you very far at all.

Good luck, whatever you do.

A better option would be for him to come visit for a while and then, if you get on well, for him to return and for you to apply for a K1 visa to get married. I visited my fiance for 2 months last year (I got unpaid leave from work) and then we decided we wanted to get married. We had to wait until my divorce was final before we could file the K1 in April. If you both feel strongly enough for each other then you should file if not then perhaps marriage is not right for you at this time.

The one thing you have to remember is that everyone here on VJ has been separated from a loved one for extended periods of time. We know all about heartbreak, loneliness and have all shed our fair share of tears. In all cases one of us has had to give up our country, our homes, our jobs and our families and friends. But we did it anyway simply because we love our other halfs..

I think you'd find it hard to say that we are down on the US here, simply because by looking back through your replies, many of the people who have answered are actually American. *shrugs* The remainder of people who answered are immigrating to, or have immigrated to, the USA. You don't do that if you hate the place.

The simple fact is that there are still many options open to you both where you can be together. It isn't particularly easy and it isn't very quick but, if you genuinely love one another, it won't matter; because you'll do anything to be with the one you love. I'd suggest your fiance flying over for a visit - just a visit. Then spend some time with each other, have FUN. When he goes back you can pursue the K-1 visa if you both feel you still want to be together.

If you feel that by breaking up with your fiance was the best thing to do, then that is purely your decision. But please don't blame it on us here on VJ; people were just warning you of the risks and trying to be helpful.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Where did you get that we were cold & cruel or more importantly, that you needed to break up?????????????????

Very well put, Mags - much better than I managed!

FFXImomma.... if he matters enough to you, and you matter enough to him, there is no reason AT ALL to give up because the first plan you thought of isn't going to work. There's hundreds (thousands... I have no idea how many!) of people posting here every single day as proof that it CAN be done, and that what can seem like an impossibly complicated and stressful process can be more than worth it in the end when you achieve that end result of being together. Someone will always have to 'give up' the life they had in their country, whichever way you do it... but speaking as someone who's moved to the US to be with my now-husband, I've not 'given up' anything that matters more than this. It's worth it, y'know....

Good luck... just relax a bit and take some time to think it all over. If it's something you both really really want, you WILL make it happen.

First off, I said the very same things to my fiance: you can find someone your own age and I can't take you away from your home/family/country. You know what he told me? "Shush. You are the one I want and you aren't taking me from anything." I bet if you and your man made it this far, that's what he feels too. He's a grown man, don't make his decisions for him.

I don't think anyone here was being accusatory or down on the US. There are ways to do this, as Mags said, using the proper channels. Have you guys met face to face yet? How big is your age difference? Do you really want to give up something that could be the best thing in your life? Don't panic, think about things.

We do all know here what it means to be separated and to count the minutes until we can be together (and then count the minutes until we have to say goodbye). You will find a lot of support and a lot of useful information here. So far I've found everyone to be pretty great.

I wish you luck...

Moving to the US means the UKC loses family and friends?!?!?!?! If that were the case, I wouldn't allow my fiance to move here either.

I know the OP hasn't shared her entire story - I'm sure it's nuanced and lovely - but from the tiny bit relayed here, I think it might be all's well for these too. Neither seemed prepared for these challenges. If it's meant to be, they'll find the strength to fight the fight. If not, then yeah, she did the right thing and he'll come to appreciate it as well.

(edit: no disrespect to VJ - it IS a good resource, even when we bop each other on the head from time to time, but good god, why would anyone let a *public message board* determine the future of her relationship!!!! She gets information from a government source that supports her own prefered manner of doing things, we give a few warnings and advice to research, and she decides to go with US rather than a government source or an attorney? When trying to decide whether to use a binder or ACCO fastener to secure your packet, how to contact an embassy, when to seek professional help, sure go with VJ advice. But who trusts a bunch of strangers to determine your future with someone you are supposedly seriously considering marrying. I hope the OP sorts things out the best way for her.)

I'm sure she doesn't need to be judged...

It's hardly judgement.

I just hope if she's still here, she thinks twice about using our advice either way to determine her life. Advice on HOW to proceed, sure. Advice on WHETHER to proceed? Um, girlfriend, you gotta make that call on your own. If you want him, go get him!

Well, I am getting so much thrown at me here and from my friends on another site.. That its overwhelming me... I have thought about it and I called in an attorney.. will let her sort it all out.. She said since the purpose of his visit is to actually meet our online friends and stuff then it is not Visa Fraud... I guess my thing is I look at the over all picture and I ask questions in advance.. That stems from having 2 disabled kids... I always want to know the outcome of things... I wish, I were the type to just wait and see but Im the type I need to know.. and if it is going to get him hurt, then yes I love him enough to stop it now.. I cant stand to see someone I love and care for suffer...

As for the main question you all seem to want to know, yes I have seen him in person, its been a while, as I assume it has with alot of you... But my phone bills are over 500 a month talking to him, and we are on Yahoo Phone from the time he gets off work til he goes to bed..... I miss him so much it hurts, but if he is going to be hurt I would rather do it now that down the line....

One more thing... I dont get how, its easier to go to the UK than it is the US??? Supposedly the land of the free... yea right!!!