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http://www.alshiatalk.com/vb/bible-closer-look-t7742.html

Esalaam (which means PEACE, peace upon you) Reza!
Thank you very much posting this and welcome to the Board!
Secondly, I would like to say : La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadu Rasoul Allah —There is no deity except the God, Muhammad is the Messenger of God! Thirdly,All of your points are very interesting, for me, and Muslims and non-Muslims alike. Fourly, the fact still remains in my heart that the Qur'an in still to this day unchanged word of the God, Creator of us and all this universe. Blessings and Peace be upon you sir!

La ilaha illa Allah mohammadan rasool Allah

Jackie

I'm confused...I thought this would be about the bible but it looks like an islamic message board?

I thought it was about God, I have to admit I didn't read all of it...too many words for a holiday

J

should it be in Off Topic?

The site you cite (haha, poetry) isn't exactly a bastion of tolerance or reason. Example: music is haram.

Also, for some reason I couldn't see the post. It goes into some kind of minimal mode in that forum.

Didn't you all see? It is another conversion attempt. And anyway it was just copy-pasted (see removal cos copyright)

"There shall be no complusion in religion; truth stands out clear from error" Qurán Surat 2:256
"And ou shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" Bible: John 8:32

I have a question: Have you always worshiped in Islam, or did you revert? If you reverted, what was the ONE defining factor that guided your decision? If I were to come to you and ask about Islam, what would be the one thing that you would stress to me to guide me in MY decision to revert?

Are people allowed to leave Islam?

For me it wasnt 1 thing but a series. I started studying islam about 5 yrs ago when my best friend reverted. I started studying so I could argue with her and tell her how wrong she was...but the funny thing was the more I studied the more I wanted to know. There was a peace when I read the Quran. And the fact that God and the worship of him the prayer to him was 5 times daily...not sundays and wednesdays like my christianity was.I looked back and I didnt ever remember once in my life praying to God....it was always Jesus. Almost like God didnt even exist or couldnt answer your prayers on his own...he had to have Jesus bring him your prayer. I feel so much closer to God now...really like I have a personal relationship with him.For me this was the major factor.

I have to admit my views of Christianity may be flawed, I believe in God, but I don't really follow one religion. I know that is not a good thing. I admit that I have not read the Qur'an. However, I had read about Islam online, and I am more and more inclined to think maybe this is the religion for me. I don't see the devoutness in Christianity, the closeness with God and and the respect for your fellow man, as I do in Islam. What confuses me is all the Hadiths, I am still not sure what they are for exactly. Also, do you HAVE to speak in Arabic during prayer time?

i'm not an easily insulted person in general...but i'm insulted when people call it "reverting". muslims may believe that all people were born muslim, but no one else does!

people are not allowed to leave islam. its punishable by death! that alone is a pretty good reason not to convert to islam. good thing these people live in america and have religious freedom! good luck trying to convert from islam to another religion if you lived in a muslim country.

happy independence day!

wow. thanks for an honest answer.

like you didn't know! lol

uhh, huh?

WTF kind of b.s. is this? You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

Why would anyone want to leave?

Jackie

Why do people think Islam is any different than any other religion? I mean, there's no central caliphate the way there is with Christian groups, so who is keeping track of all these leavers so they can be punished by death?

It's not a crime to leave Islam in Morocco, a muslim country.

These ideas you have are preposterous, LS & abdoujen.

Is it islam that people have a hard time leaving...what about the "mormon" group here in the good old usa not too long ago?? Intermarrying inside the church, if you left you were pretty much dead. There are things like this in all religions. We see it more maybe in islam but is that because it doesnt happen as much in other religions? Or just that it isnt as reported on?And yes thank God we do live in the usa where to some extent we have freedom of religion I couldnt have said it better myself.

Apostasy in Islam is commonly defined as the rejection of Islam in word or deed by a person who has been a Muslim.

All five major schools of Islamic jurisprudence agree that a sane male apostate must be executed. A female apostate may be put to death, according to some schools, or imprisoned, according to others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

Another source...

Why does Islam not allow apostasy? Apostasy or irtidãd in Islam is equal to treason.

... the irtidãd that we are discussing here involves open rejection, without any force and with full realization of what one's statements or actions imply. If a Muslim has a genuine doubt on an Islamic matter, that process of doubting does not automatically classify him as a murtad. As long as he is still in state of doubt, the punishment of irtidãd is suspended.[6] A murtad must fully realize the implications of his open rejection and what it means--casting doubt on the truth and honesty of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the Messenger of God.

The punishment prescribed by the shari`ah for apostasy is death.

Even the terms used by the shari`ah for apostates give the idea of treason to this whole phenomenon. "Murtad" means apostate. Murtad can be of two types: fitri and milli.

(1) "Murtad Fitri" means a person who is born of a Muslim parent and then he rejects Islam. "Fitrah" means creation. The term "murtad fitri" implies that the person has apostated from the faith in which he was born.

(2) "Murtad Milli" means a person who converted to Islam and then later on he rejects Islam. Milli is from millat which means religion. The term "murtad milli" implies that the person has apostated from his religion and the Muslim community.


In the first case, the apostasy is like the treason against God; whereas in the second case, the apostasy is like the treason against the Muslim community. Probably, that is why the Sh`iah jurisprudence deals with these two kinds of murtads differently:



· A former kãfir who became a Muslim and then apostates (murtad milli), he is given a second chance: if he repents, then he is not to be killed; but if he does not repent, then he is to be killed.


· But one who is born as a Muslim and then apostates (murtad fitri), he is to be killed even if he repents. It is important to understand that in case a murtad fitri repents, Allãh may accept his repentance and he may be forgiven in the hereafter, but he still has to go through the punishment prescribed for his treason in this world.[7]


This punishment is only applicable in case of apostasy by men; in case of women, the punishment is not death but life imprisonment. And if such a woman repents, then her repentance is accepted and the punishment is lifted.


In writings of some of the Sh`iah jurists, one gets the sense that the punishment of murtad is to be implemented only in dãru 'l-Islãm (i.e., the Muslim world), and that if the murtad flees to dãru 'l-kufr (i.e., the abode of kufr), then he is not to be pursued.[8]


http://www.al-islam.org/short/apostasy/

Exactly!!!!!!!!!

If the punishment is death, who would? Good point

The bible tells of this same nonsense, Gupt, but just like most Christians, most muslims are familiar with the concepts of historical context and allegory.

The bible says a thief should be sold into slavery if he cannot repay what he has stolen. Why aren't we afraid of Christianity? Because everyone knows the idea is preposterous.

In Christianity, denying Jesus is damnation and hellfire, and this is different than death?

Show me one religion that isn't fukced up and preposterous. They all are. That's why it's so important to reveal the lies every time they are glorified and celebrated.

And who is glorifying and celebrating the preposterous parts of religions here? It seems to me you and LS and abdoujen are the only people who are highlighting things regular every day religious people never think about, BECAUSE THEY ARE PREPOSTEROUS things to think about and have nothing to do with regular, everyday lives.

Let me clarify the question...

Are people allowed to leave Islam?

Is that better?

Since you are marrying a muslim and a muslim man's children are muslim, will you decide to become less ignorant of Islam prior to having children with him?

Sorry that my use of the word "revert" offended you. This is just the term that I have always found when I have been reading about the Islam religion. Either term, revert, or convert, can be used I guess. I totally agree with you about being fortunate enough to live in a country where we are free to follow the religion of our choice.
So many people believe all of the bad things about the religion of Islam, the wife beating, the extremist who follow jihad, and so on. They group all of the ME people into a group and try to make them all sound like a bunch of blood thirsty heathens, simply because they are Muslims.
I for one have not forgotten the real reason the pilgrims ventured here in the first place. To freely worship as they please.
As for me, I have been searching for a long time for a religion to follow, one where I can be at peace with myself, with other people, and most importantly, God. Even before I met my husband, who says that the decision to change my religion is entirely my own to make.
So, with all that said, Happy 4th of July! Let FREEDOM ring!

The question is retarded, hence the confusion. Again I ask, where are these Islam police? There are non-religious muslims, there are atheists who were once muslim, there are christians who were once muslim. Why is this such a complicated concept for you?

figures peezey smelled a ripe post to come argue with someone over. what do you do? read the entire board in search of somewhere to come fight with people or to put them down when their opinions don't coincide with yours and ignore all the other posts?

i'm NOT wrong! and you didn't see me comparing islam to any other religion, did you? unlike the OP. i'm sure certain members of the mormon (or many other faiths) would make you feel like an outcast, or as chasnik said, "pretty much dead", but is it written in their books to KILL you if you leave the faith? i think not, but someone who better knows that can answer that one. anyway i agree that that point isn't as important as other aspects of religion. you can easily be athiest or WHATEVER religion and no one would even know it. there are far more important reasons for chosing or NOT chosing a religion.

and right, there is no central caliphate, which i think is a mistake. islam needs to progress a bit for me to give it any kind of consideration.

and again. thank god (or thank my parents for moving here) for allowing me to grow up in a place where i can choose to be whatever religion i feel is right!

and what i do regarding religion with my future husband is none of your business. nice try with your snide remarks though!!!!

No, sweet Jen, I only look for ignorant, retarded, misinformed, ill-conceived posts to respond to. It really isn't my fault that they often end up being yours.

Please, tell me where the leaving Islam police are again? And it's not a crime to leave Islam in Morocco, again. I know you've been to a couple music festivals and all that, but gnawa does not a scholar make. So, try again, and I'll be waiting here on this evidence of people who are put to death for leaving Islam.

A muslim man's child must become muslim? Talk about ignorance.

you have no idea who i am, my background, my religious beliefs, or what my education is. so STFU and get a life other than sitting on VJ trying to pick fights with people and going on their blogs for hours a day!

yeah, exactly lucky. all things revolve around islam. its reverting. its the children who are automatically muslim. didn't you know?

its not just you. all muslims use the term "revert".

btw, good luck in your decision. i think its great your husband isn't pushing you one way or the other. freedom is a precious thing!

no I didn't. I'm one of those 'freedom of religion' fools

what a concept!

how is religious determination through either parent ignorant? many religions pass through one parent or the other.

I don't want to fight with anyone here but leaving Islam is NOT punishable by death per the Islamic religion. People, often those who dislike the religion of Islam, often quote a passage in the Quran that states something along those lines but it's totally taken out of context. Back in the day of the Prophet, pbuh, there were tribes that were converting to Islam falsely so that they could be spies and use the information to attack him and his people. When they left Islam it triggered others to realize who the spy was, and it was wartime and so spies were put to death.

All things in the Quran should not be taken literally and out of context.

IMO, religion is an interpertative matter to the individual. Some take it to the extreme and some do not in every religion. I don't believe there are any wrong or right answers here. A true spiritual relationship should be between the indiviual and God. It is my opinion that God will lead you to do what is right.

I think in any of the three books (Torah, Bible, Qur'an) certain passages can be used to illustrate violence. Yet all three contain passages that honor God and speak about being good to fellow man. Again, it's all a matter of interpertation.

what about a MAN who is muslim and a WOMAN who is jewish?

in islam the religion is passed through the man.

in judiasm it is passed through the mother.

so what are the children, mmmmmmmmmmmmm?

for example...in the jewish religion if the mother is jewish the child is automatically jewish.




That is something that you should both figure out before you have the children.

same thing - although again - earlier that was called ignorant.






yes, i know - which brings me back to my point - how is it ignorant? that was the comment made.

i totally agree with you. and you also said it beautifully, btw. it would be a beautiful world if everyone were left alone to chose what religion they felt was right for them.

Realistically everyone believes their children are born into their religion do they not? As a christian it is believed that until a child reaches a certain age they are pure and if they die before that time they are automatically taken home to be with God. After that if you havent been saved then you are a sinner and if you die you will go to hell. Nothing scary there huh? Missed God knocking on my hearts door last night and didnt go to the alter to be "Saved" got killed in a car wreck on the way home...uh oh hell...There are these things in every religion...revert bothers you...even when I was a fire and brimstone pentecostal christian saved bothered me. Mohammed is of the opinion that everyone tries their best to make islam and any religion realistically too complicated. It is all about worshiping God right?

what i think lucky meant, (correct me if i'm wrong) is that she assumed our children would be muslim because my fiance happens to be muslim. she just said it to be rude anyway. i find that quite ignorant myself actually!

I reverted/converted. btw when I say revert I'm not intentionally trying to diss the Christians/Jews/Hindus, et al. It's just how I feel. What was described to me is that we were all one big oooze.......and we all beat as one while worshipping the Creator............THAT is Islam......total worship to HIM, in a nutshell. When I was born I was baptized as a Catholic and I was raised that Jesus = God. Therefore, given that belief, when I finally realized that being a Muslim ultimately fulfills what I need, I considered it to be reverting to the very beginning. That's my belief but in no way do I ever intend to diss anyone by saying that just as others who have their beliefs have the right to their opinion. I think people can get too sensitive over terminology sometimes.

The ONE defining factor was a culmination of events for me. My research re: the bible, the history of Islam, etc. Call it a "moment" of reliazation for me that when I prostrate to the Creator I feel the ultimate peace and surrender and I feel like less than a pebble in the sand and ...well I feel like I'm right where I should be. Like someone else here said I always focused on everything else BUT God. The afternoons on Saturdays I'd spend doing adoration while praying the rosary for hours on end........I get more fulfillment out of one prayer session now than I did all my life of praying the rosary.

I guess the one thing to stress to you would be to focus on the fact that there is ONE God. The rest will just fall into place if you ask for His help.

I'll admit in the beginning I was super afraid of doing anything wrong, but I think it's pretty scarey when people tend to take everything so literally. It's impossible to do everything perfectly so inevitably you're gonna mess things up since we're all human.

I'm not picking an argument here, Tammy, but I think it truly depends on the congregation or worship community. I am Catholic (a religion that gets mocked more than most, I'd say!) and my particular community is incredibly devout, loving, and God centered. It is in this community that I reached a point where I felt that I had a cconnection to God. We don't just pray on Wednesdays and Sundays....I'm sorry that you were in a community that made you feel that. We promote prayer any time of the day, both community and individual. I found that scripted or timed prayer seemed less genuine. Again, that was my experience, and I have no personal experience with Islam, though I have peripheral experience through Muslim friends. What I don't like is ANY religion saying "I'm right...you're wrong" because I believe in tolerance....



Where in the New Testament are these quotes?



It seems like someone who professes to be faithful and devout shouldn't be going around calling other people (or their words) "retarded," as that smacks of intolerance and judgment. Or is it ok to be judgmental and intolerant?


I agree with this, as all things in the Bible should as well. I think it's when people start second-guessing and putting their human interpretations or literal readings into it that we get into trouble. But, that's just MHO