This seems to be a problem growing as fast as the nation's waistline, for heavy passengers who don't want to pay double but hate to encroach on others' space, and for thin people who dread seeing the heavy person prepare to occupy the seat next to theirs. What do you think?

It is not there fault. Air service isn't how it use to be when I was young. I feel like a heard of cattle now of days it bits.

Considering the size of the average American these days (myself included), American airline companies should consider increasing the size of their seats. Even my much skinnier friends find them uncomfortable.

Oddly, the plane I find most comfortable is a tiny little Embraer model; one seat wide on one side, and 2 seats wide on the other. It's used primarily for commuter flights, such as from O'Hare to Indy. I adore that plane. I think it's made in Brazil.

first class has larger seats!

Maybe if airlines charged by the pound we wouldn't have such a HUGE obesity problem in the US!

It does cost airlines in fuel for every pound they raise off the ground!

I think theoretically yes, but it would be difficult to enforce practically.

I just did a hypothetical check on Orbitz, and I found that for a couple routes I entered, a first-class or business-class seat cost three times what the economy seat cost, (so of course that means buying 2 coach seats is still cheaper). Dunno.



Actually I think they do enforce it, from what I've just been reading. Apparently, Southwest was taken to court by a customer who argued that he had not received the full seat he paid for since a large person was taking up a third of his seat, so now many airlines have a policy that basically says "we urge you to buy two seats, and if you don't, we might make you do it, but maybe refund you one of them later if we aren't full booked."

Well have you seen the kids lunchs at school and they call what they are serving healthy like vegetable for the day is ketchup. Something has to happen from primary level on up and all the enriched foods.

Where do you draw the line? I'd rather be slightly uncomfortable with a larger person sitting next to me than someone who's got honking breath or BO.

Yes, maybe it should be like McDonald's.

You go to McDonald's and you Super Size your meal knowing very well you don't need the caloric intake, when you get to the check-in counter at the airport, you Super Size your seat knowing that your going to make the air traveler next to you very uncomfortable.

My fellow Americans are to fat and lazy now, it is the first thing I noticed moving back to the States, just about everyone is FAT.

You seem a little hostile toward larger people, eh?

NO, not at all, just had to sit by way too many on my travels.

DITTO BIGTIME!
After seeing what they serve at my daughters elementary school cafeteria I was tempted to give her lunch money to go to MacDonalds for a "healthy lunch".
Carbos ++++++++++and yes Ketchup!

Well, fat really is not synonymous with lazy. I think that's a very unfair generalization.

what you say is very mean. I think people are what they are some blcak some white, some fat some skinny. How would you like it if you came to the US they told you you could not come to the STates because you were a forginer how would that feel. You treat all people fat and skinny black or whie they way you would like to be treated. We all have feeling.

This is a sidenote here, but, why don't you guys pack your kids' lunches? :ducks:

good point, alex.

and i said, yes they should pay for 2 seats. i do think seats should be of a certain standard but i don't think they need to be enlarged just because people are obese. i think people should pay for 2 seats, then be refunded if the plane isn't full. seems like a fair idea to me!

How about, if you want to be comfortable, you pay for 2 seats... no matter WHAT size you are.

And at what point would you force someone to pay for 2 seats? What is 'fat enough' for you? And would there be different sizes for men and women? Because I know a lot of 'skinny' women who just happen to have big hips.

Just remember, for as uncomfortable as you are having to sit next to them, they're probably twice as uncomfortable about being there (and I'm not talking about the seat sizes)

I believe the "test" that Southwest applies is if you can't put your armrests down all the way or if you are spilling into another seat, you are too big for one seat.

I'm an average size woman (although a bit tall) and find airplane seats a big snug. I think it'd be a great idea to make them larger. I voted no, that people should not have to pay for two tickets.

I don't know why airlines don't do the same thing that the roller coasters do - make a few seats larger.
I really don't have a solution for this problem.



As far as student lunches - gross . I'm a teacher and I can't believe what those kids eat....and I can't believe they don't bring their lunches!! In the county I work in they're trying to make the food healthier - but they're making it worse...imagine the school pizza now....blah.
And they do not give enough food for 14- and 15- year old growing boys...

Buy one get one free?

Hmmm... let me see now.... I noticed when shopping for clothes and working in retail.. larger sized items usually cost more because it takes more material to make. If I buy something that is bigger or would like to or need special accommodations ..or need something "extra" that is not according to what is normally offerred, I would and usually pay extra for it. In many business's there is usually a standard and average to go by of what is the majority. Unless it's "customized" service... where things are made or offerred "especially for you".. with this kind you definately pay more. Someone said "first class seats are larger".. this is true and it cost more to get it. Yes there are people who can't help it if they are larger. I think more so it would be those who are larger by height. I do know that there are some who have health problems that contribute to their size. My encouragement and prayers go out to them. But, I think we are all aware that if you want or require something a little more than whats being offered.. we usually pay a little more for it too. I think there should be some kind of standard, chart, guideline or something the airlines should come up with so that it would help all passengers to have a more enjoyable flight. Seats on a plane are usually configured to accomodate as many as possible (I think most or all can be adjusted).. staying within certain guidelines... there is a weight and size restriction on our check-in and carry ons.. This is for our safety. Many other guidelines and restrictions as we all know and should abide by for the safety and comfort of us all who fly. So why not offer something more than 1st, business and coach seats. Some seats are set up where you can have an airline bassinet attachment in front of you for your infant. Theres much leg space space and no seat in front of you. So why not offer something more.. like "A+" seats (and I dont mean just for teachers).

Well.. thats my input.

Aloha- gwen

Standard seat sizes are what, 18 inches wide? I fit in there comfortably, but I'm a petite woman. While I don't have a problem in principle with having a policy that says that people who don't fit into the seats should buy two, I think such a policy is ridiculous when they design the seats for twelve-year-old butts.

I usually side with heavy-set people/causes, but I wouldn't want to be the person sitting next to the guy who's too heavy for his seat and is spilling into mine the entire 11 hour flight to Istanbul lol. In most cases I would say that yes, if a person is too large for the confines of a normal airplane seat, they should have to buy the adjacent seat as well. The exception would maybe be if a flight isn't full and no one would be occupying the seat next to them anyway; then they should be refunded the price of the second seat.

EDIT: To add that if a person is *slightly* too big for the chair, then they shouldn't have to pay for a second seat, but if their a$$ is more or less half on the seat next to them, then yes.

16-17, as I read today. Man, I've got to find something else to do...

well put

Caro

The flights to Halifax from Boston or Newark are on those little Embraers. I love flying on those and they are definitely more comfortable.


Hmmmm....that was a rather crass statement, more like referring to cattle than human beings. How in the world would charging by the pound help the obesity problem in the US? These people aren't all the lazy fat people you're insinuating they are.


I fully intend to pack my daughter's lunch this next year. School lunches are by far one of the most unhealthy choices for anyone to eat. Having eaten a few school lunches I can tell you they are full of sodium, sugar, carbs (way too many) and other stuff that I don't want in my body much less that of my daughter. It's far cheaper to pack a lunch than to buy the school made, even if it's subsidized by the government. The only thing she'll buy from the cafeteria is milk.

Time for the "large" to defend themselves. What may be considered obese by some may actually be just a few pounds overweight. As a large size woman, I am offended by some of the generalizations here. Am I overweight? Yes, I am. Some of it is genetic, some of it is health related. Am I lazy? Heck no! I work 12 hour shifts, take care of my home, assist in caring for my parents, and am raising 3 rough and ready sons. I usually eat one meal a day, dinner before I go to work. Other than that I drink diet soda's and water during the day to curb my appetite.
On my flight home from Jordan, which was 13 hours, my seat mate was a large sized gentleman. Other than bumping elbows with him when eating, I was not aware of being overwhelmingly uncomfortable. I can understand where it may make someone angry if they feel their space is being encroached upon, but to have to pay more simply because I am larger than a size 12? Where would it end? If you are a size 6 you pay X amount to fly? What if you are a size 12? Do you pay more? Or should they simply start a measuring system? If you have larger that a 28" waist you can't fly? So, am I gonna take a Greyhound to Jordan? Not likely. As far as I am aware, airplanes were desinged to offer quick and easy travel to places beyond what normal transport offered. Who said anything about comfort? Just get me there ASAP!

If we're going to charge "fat & lazy" people more money, I propose some other charges as well:

Women who wear perfume on an airplane: since flogging is illegal, charge them an additional $5000.

People with screaming spawn: $10,000 per spawn

People who snore loudly (guilty): $5000

People who talk too damn much and too damn loud: $10,000

People who complain about "fat" people intruding upon their seat space: $15,000

People who accuse large people of being "fat and lazy": $50,000

But then, what do I know? I'm fat and lazy. My house has apparently remodeled itself while I eat doughnuts and/or sleep.

How about this. Would you prefer to sit next to a quiet 'obese' person who probably wants the ordeal over with as much as you, or sit next to the unruly 8 yr old brat who wont shut up his yugioh game, or be stuck in the back with the 20 or so teenagers going as part of a camp and will.not.shut.up about who they sucked face with the night before? for the full 13+ hours?

There are a lot of things that happens on a plane that make it more uncomfortable for me, then sitting next to a 'fatty'...

I guess for me the difference is that if I have paid for my plane seat I expect to get all of it. I have no expectations regarding noise or smells. I do see a difference.

1. I agree, Jenn. I'm against penalizing people for size, but the current system is not fair to other passengers. Either large people will need to pay for 2 plane seats or airlines need a program that bumps someone up to a higher class so the large person can have an empty seat next to them or airlines need to make a row of bigger seats in coach (which they say is way too expensive) or large people on overbooked flights need to wait for another flight. But I really don't see allowing people to sit in seats that they're falling out of to be an option, especially because of what Jenn said. My arse has gotten larger and I now pretty much need the whole plane seat. If somebody sits next to me who needs part of my plane seat too, we're going to have a problem.

2. I don't think the "where do you draw the line?" argument really works. The line is easy to draw. Can you put the armrest down? Is part of your body in a seat that someone else bought? Then you are using more than you paid for.

At the same time it's not the person's fault they're obese, it's not the airline's problem either. But, since the obese population is increasing, maybe it is time to adjust the world to it. Everywhere you go there is a special bathroom for people in wheelchair, why can't planes, bus have special seats for obese people?

So my answer is no, I don't think they should have to pay double.

i'd like to see it. the last trip i had to virginia i had a guy next to me who was so large he spent the entire plane trip leaning forward because he was about 8" over on my side. i slept the entire trip with my arms crossed and squished against the window.

That sucks. Did he have the arm rest down?

From the point of view of someone who is considered 'obese'... I don't exactly think it is fair to make a person buy two seats. While I do fall under that category, I can fit in a normal seat without 'spilling over' on to other people's seats. I actually prefer to sit near windows so I can squish over against the window and keep out of other people's ways. However, I think the airlines should have a couple of seats designated for 'wider' people. Just like they have to accomidate the handicapped, it wouldn't hurt to have a few seats that are wider.

In the future, the only real airline travel I plan on doing is with my husband, so I plan on only buying one seat. If I 'spill over' on to him, I'm sure he won't mind.

More weight = more fuel. So theoretically, yes..I do believe larger people should pay more. If not, why can't I take twice the luggage allowance because my needs dictate I need to bring more stuff?

The bottom line with airlines is that it IS expensive to fly....and with the consumers the way we are with everyone wanting the lowest possible price...it makes it extremely difficult imo to accomodate everyone. Yes, airline seats are cramped and small. Yes, the seats could be larger for everyone's comfort. But then...are you as a consumer willing to pay 50% more to offset those costs? Probably not. We all want the lowest price AND the best service/experience...and imo, that's just an impossible expectation.

I'm in no way shape or form calling obese people 'lazy'....but I'd hardly compare weight on a whole to the color of someone's skin. And I'm not talking about people who just have a few extra pounds on em...but come on...if there's a 500 lb man...should he be paying the same price for an airline ticket even though he'll span two seats?

But it's a difficult thing to mandate, and I don't know how they'll get around it.

I’m not (at all) overweight, but I am tall and I find economy class seats murder at the best of times – so anyone who is wider than the seat is almost certainly going to have problems; as are the people next to them…

I’d certainly like airlines to increase the amount of cabin space for passengers from what seems at present to be a bare minimum. Taking out a row of seats would go a long way to doing it. Its obvious why they do it of course – they need to get the most capacity out of the aircraft that weight and space will allow, especially considering the cost of fuel these days.

Even so – I’m wondering to what extent airlines can really go to accommodating very large people. I’m not sure there’s a reasonable business precedent for making an accommodation for someone who’s upwards of 300,400 or 500lbs. Its not like a bus or a train here – political correctness aside there is a strict weight limit on commercial aircraft – hence the overage charges for excess baggage, so I’m wondering why those charges are not applied to some of these very large passengers. While it might be discriminatory – there are certain realities here. Plane can’t get off the ground if there’s too much weight…

Seriously no amount of planning is going to accommodate the seriously large passenger - 300 - 400lbs, nor do I understand why a passenger aircraft which has extremely limited space for totally practical reasons should start to inconvenience other passengers by having airlines jack up the flight prices to make up for the shortfall because of those overlarge people. I’d rather they pay the premium, rather than for me to have pay extra just to be ‘fair’.

The wife and I had a similar experience to Charles – although we were behind these people. This family of 3 – dad, wife and son were sitting in the row in front of us (we were unlucky to have the back row where the seats don’t recline) and of course all 3 of them put their chairs all the way back.

Is it worth humiliating people to stick to a completely practical approach to the problem? I don't know how good the PR would be if any company started up charging people more.

That's true - but we're essentially talking about a politically correct 'round the houses' argument to address a fundamentally practical problem. Removing seats to increase space has and will raise ticket prices for all. As those prices are scandalous to begin with - I'm not sure I want to pay extra just so that a 500lb beach ball can pay the same as me; when he/she is the reason for the increase.

I think the PR for 'we're raising our prices to accomodate larger passengers' would be more detrimental on a whole.

Btw, everyone mark this date as the day I agreed with E doesn't happen too often, lawlz

What about a reduced rate on first class for people who call ahead saying they won't fit and are willing to be subjected to a "seat test" at check in or something (to avoid abuse of the system)? Maybe a back row of first class could be reserved for heavy folks, and it could be no-frills first class (no fancy meals, no fancy movie equipment, just the big seat)?

I'm willing to bet that a large amount of complaints airlines get are from people who are upset that they did not get their entire seat. An airline with a policy that removed that problem would probably do well.

Why can't skinny people get a reduced first class tick?

You forgot about people who pound on your seat while you're trying to sleep...stay still and stop kicking my seat, evil spawn!!

Caro

Even if the airline did designate say 3 specially adapted economy seats for the 'oversize' - what happens when 4 oversize people are booked on the same flight?

I'm not sure we even need to go that far - but it would perhaps be not inhumane to suggest that if a person is over a certain size they can't reasonably be sat in an economy class seat (especially when you consider that the recent court rulings which bar airlines from any liability if a passenger develops a DVT from the cramped conditions).

I mean what are Premium Economy, Business and First class sections for - if not to provide the passenger with more room to meet their needs? Personally - I think a person there should be a disclaimer that oversize people should be barred from economy class seating and pay for a mandatory upgrade for Premium Economy, Business or 1st class.

My sister is over 300lbs and always buys two seats just so that *she* can be comfortable.

But then they're paying like 3 times what they would pay in economy. So people are going to fight that and be very upset. I don't think that would be any easier to implement than asking them to buy 2 coach seats, which usually is cheaper.

The problem there is that the airline loses out on the $$$$ premium for the first class seat - and this would get passed on to everyone else.