i was joking relax a little. cmon it was kinda funny

Couldn't resist..........

I think there's a difference between adopting a politically correct position to preserve the perceived sensitivities of others and being honest insofar as how you would react in a given situation. I doubt too many people 'enjoy' mass transit.

Not necessarily Mark. I don't spend more on food and clothing...I spend less on food and still manage to eat healthy and I don't overeat, since that seems to be the general belief for the reason so many are overweight. My clothing isn't as expensive either. Some skinny people pay more for their clothing than I do. My doctor appointments are for medical conditions that even skinny people have. My prescriptions are for conditions that even skinny people have need of. Medication prices are regulated by drug companies and insurance companies...skinny or overweight isn't the only determining factor IMHO.


Thank you Alex. I get tired of hearing comments like "if they'd just close their mouth" or "back off from the table". There are some very real medical conditions out there that contribute greatly to one's weight gain...even the lack thereof. It doesn't matter that my medical condition (documented and proven) is the major contributor to my weight gain...I am still judged according to society's idea of what is "perfect". Even when my ex was presented with the medical evidence of my medical condition and its symptoms and the effects, he was still very much like most of society.

So now we have those that feel that overweight people should further be penalized...punished....for lack of a better term...for being overweight and wanting/needing to fly. What if you were charged extra for having long legs...or something similar? Those "ideas" posted by PlatyPius could very well apply to some of you here. What if you were charged more for your ticket if you have small children that might possibly disturb the other passengers. What if you had to ask a battery of questions when you decide to purchase a ticket and one of those questions is "do you snore?" and answering yes generated a higher purchase price? If charging more for an overweight person starts happening, where will this stop? Yeah, Yeah, I read all the posts about weight to fuel ratio. That's just one way to justify personal preference IMHO. You have to see that it wouldn't end with just overweight people, don't you?

It doesn't really matter whether the person is fat because they have a bad character (a dumb claim if I ever heard one), or fat because the Angel of God decreed it; as far as the airline's concerned, we're talking butts-in-seats. Weight isn't the problem, just butts-per-seat.

So let's lay off the personal attacks, k guys?

As a fat man with irritable bowel syndrome, body odour and spoilt kids, I'm bowing out of this thread.

so....according to sentiments in this thread

I should pay more since I am overweight, AND I should pay more because I have long legs that prevent the person ahead of me from leaning their chair back.

good to know.

As far as flights go - it has nothing to do with a person's character and everything to do with the fact that another people (for whatever reason) is contributing to what is an already unpleasant experience.

You can resolve most disputes about reclining seat backs (for example) by reasoning with people, or if that doesn't work - with the aid of the flight staff; but little can be done if you're being squashed in your seat by another person.

Weight is a big problem for airlines.

"Through the 1990s, the average weight of Americans increased by 10 pounds,
according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The extra weight
caused airlines to spend $275 million to burn 350 million more gallons of fuel in
2000 just to carry the additional weight of Americans, the federal agency estimated
in a recent issue of the American Journal of Preventive Medicine. "

Source

no wonder we're only allowed (generally) 2 bags @ 50lbs now instead of 3. and the carry on size is much smaller/lighter

Well it makes sense that the operating costs of a commercial flight go up as the overall payload of the plan goes up and gas prices skyrocket. Anyone who thinks those costs aren't being passed on directly to the consumer is sadly kidding themselves.

I agree that airline seats should be larger. However, the cost of replacing all the seats in all the airplanes in the U.S. would be prohibitave. I am heavier myself, but not enough that I don't fit in the seat. I can still fasten the seatbelt with a little of the belt left. But . . . . it is uncomfortable enough to be in the small seat WITHOUT someone larger spilling over into my seat.

So . . . I voted that LARGE people should have to buy two seats. I'm not trying to be mean or heartless. That's just how I feel.

well of course. in my short lifetime a lot in the airline industry has changed. we're still paying somehow by less baggage, no food service/paying extra for food, paying for earphones, paying for movies, etc. none of that was around when i was younger. and even before i was born i've heard about having wonderful table serviced meals in coach! lol

Generally all the other issues that people have brought up about seat backs, screaming kids, flatulence, snoring etc - are controllable to a point. The size of the person sitting next to you and the reduced space available to adjacent passengers are not controllable.

Also depends on the airline - some offer more seating space than others. If anything perhaps it should be a universal standard - but then again there's nothing that can be changed related to seat space/number of seats without increasing the cost to everyone else. Its admittedly selfish - but I dont' want to pay for it.

I'm not a big person by anyones count and I voted no. I think the option to buy the ajoining seat is very much up to the individual, if I don't want to chance having a travel companion large enough to spill over onto me/my seat it should be up to me to purchase the other seat.

But that would imply that its the responsibility of the inconvenienced, rather than the inconveniencer to be financially penalised for the inconvenience.

Yes. The reasoning behind the larger passenger paying for the adjoining seat is that they are taking part of that seat, which is not fair to a passenger who has purchased that seat, so is not getting what they paid for. Why should I have to pay for a seat I'm not using, in order to avoid not getting all of the seat I am using?

In my honest opinion it seems that there is a deeper issue on your mind other than an "obese" person spilling over into your seat. Because we are overweight, we should buy the other seat? I go along with the other idea. You don't want to take the chance that a "fatty" will be your seat mate? Then YOU buy the other seat, and there won't be any worries for you!

I agree with Scot. I just don't see that it’s my responsibility to pay for the fact that another passenger can't fit into their assigned seat without impinging on the seat that I've already paid for. No "deeper issue" – you may not have noticed but to my knowledge few if any of my comments in this thread amount to a ‘value judgement’ on why a person looks or behaves the way they do. That isn’t the point at all – it’s that in some instances a person’s “situation” (whatever that may be) impacts negatively on the people around them.

That argument BTW – applies to other areas of life; and while we might make concessions in some instances for the sake of politeness (as some are doing in this thread); when you’re in a situation where there is literally no escape from it (like mass transit) I don’t think the same rules apply. Nor do I think that those people who are being courteous about this issue would necessarily be that way in that situation.

Maybe so, maybe no.
For me it is a matter of choice, the inconvenienced can either pre-empt or live with Murphy’s law. Is it not each persons responsibility for their own welfare/wellbeing? Why should a larger passenger be responsible for my comfort. It is the responsibility of the inconvenienced to be financially penalized if they take action to not be inconvenienced, as it would be for the other to be financially penalized for not inconveniencing others.
What is good for the goose is good for the gander

As I said - people turn into complete b*stards on planes - and I don't doubt that your reasoning here would essentially be what it came down to - as it has in the past (hence I mentioned that experience about the guy with his seat back in my lap). But it would be the flight staff who would make the ultimate determination - there are health and safety issues associated with a passenger not being able to sit in their seat.

To go back to smoking - the law in several states requires smokers to go outside to indulge their habit, rather than impact the air quality people around them. It doesn't require the people who don't smoke to go outside for fresh air. The emphasis in law is usally on the person causing the disruption to others - not those being disrupted.

The law also emphasizes protecting minorities from discrimination. Not fitting in a plane seat really isn't a choice, where smoking is. And that's where I think your prejudice comes in to almost every post you make here.

After posting this, I remembered the time I flew Iceland Air in November. I am 5'5" and was about 148 pounds. A woman that size should be able to fit in a plane seat, and I don't think anyone could have accused me of being obese, although carrying around 10-15 extra pounds for my frame, yes. Yet, I could barely wedge myself into my plane seat. I had to sit in the aisle and cross my legs. I have very wide hips compared to my waist and carry a lot of my weight in my bottom half. It's not my fault; it's just the way the good lord made me. I didn't have some horrible twinkie habit that made it so I couldn't fit in the seat. I'm not a lazy person. But you're telling me my body shape is the same as being a smoker?


eta: I still don't think people should be forced to sit next to someone spilling into their seat. But I believe the responsibility in part lies in the airlines' hands.

No I'm not- I'm addressing the argument (via another example) that it should somehow be on me to pay to not be inconvenienced. As I said to the other poster I made no comments on pertaining to 'why' a person looks the way they do - so I don't see where you're inferring that from.

And yes - the airlines have some responsibility to ensure that an 'average' person can fit into those seats, which are by necessity, one-size-fits-all. But they can only do so much - and while ideally the economy seats should ideally be a little roomier I cannot see a justification for them to go out of their way to accommodate a few extreme people.

I just don't get the attitude of a person who says, "It's not my problem if I'm inconveniencing you. If you don't like it, that's your problem; sucks to be you."

As far as any "deeper issues" go, I've stated exactly where I find the problems to be; it has nothing to do with "prejudice" against "fatties". It is a simple matter of getting what I paid for, and not having to share it with someone who did not pay for it. If I am eating at McD's, and someone squishes part of my hamburger, is that my problem or that of the one who squished it? Should I have to buy two hamburgers to allow for the possibility that someone may squish one and deprive me of the full value of what I payed for?

The other problem is being forced to be in unwelcomed physical contact with a stranger throughout the flight, regardless of how much that person weighs.


Btw, I have to say that I find the fact that erekose and I are in agreement to be a bit disturbing

I can agree with that last sentence. However I think the only way one can form an opinion on the issue is by placing blame on someone. Who created the problem? They should be responsible. If you ate your way to 280 lbs., it's your fault then. Or: if you make airline seats smaller than the average American, that's your fault. To me, asking someone to buy 2 plane seats constitutes a little bit of discrimination because it automatically blames them--and subsequently punishes them--for their body size.

I think when you're in or have been in that situation - you do tend to blame the people causing your inconvenience, whatever that may be.

We're also not talking about the 'average' American but the average world traveller.

I have been squished by a larger person before, and yes, I was mostly a little annoyed that we had to touch, but soon I felt bad for the guy, who was obviously embarrassed about it and apologized. But once we're out of the plane, regardless of how mad they made us in the plane, we can think rationally about it, right?

Aren't most flights Americans take domestic? Most Americans fly, but most also didn't own a passport before the new Canada/Mexico passport rules. Most of us aren't world travelers, but most of us do need to go to a funeral in Tulsa or a job interview in Boston.

What? Your average sized passenger should now have to buy 2 seats if they want to have the expectation of having an entire seat? That's just ludicrous. I can see disagreeing with the idea that the obese passenger should pay more, but come on.

I guess my question is what should my expectation be when I buy an airplane ticket. What exactly should the airline have to guarantee me? A smokefree environment? Yes. Complete silence so I can sleep? No. A full plane seat? I would think so.

Frankly, I don't care who absorbs the extra cost. If the airline does, then it will eventually be passed on to me, but what are you going to do really? Everyone is always paying a little bit more than they should here and a bit less than they should there.

The flights might be domestic but I doubt the planes are.

I think anyone who buys a whole seat is entitled to the whole seat. The issue of what to do about the obese/large/oddly shaped person's need for more space is really the question. No, I don't think it's anywhere near fair to ask someone to buy two seats just in case a big person comes. I agree that that's ludicrous.

What options are available to you if your (full) long-haul flight about to take off and you're squishing or are being squished by another passenger?

I'm not sure. If it happened to me and we were about to go to, say, Brazil, I would probably request a seat change. If that weren't possible, I'd probably refrain from throwing a fit but maybe write an angry letter and hope to get a voucher out of it. I'd probably throw enough of a mini-fit that I had a chance of being bumped a class, however.

That's it right there Alex...not everyone feels the way you or I do. I've been in this position too but I wasn't abhorred by being in such close proximity. I guess I'm the oddball here...obese people don't seem to sicken me. Sure, it's their problem (I'm fairly certain they know this too) and there are all sorts of circumstances that contribute to that but IMHO if a person is extremely large, doesn't it seem to occur to anyone here that they KNOW this and will ask for two seats ahead of time? Should airlines start screening their customers by asking what their weight is when booking a ticket? Should there be an overweight section to each plane? Should customers who are what society deem "normal size" be told that their seat is potentially next to an overweight person? Almost everyone on here seems to be complaining but isn't offering any REASONABLE solution other than penalizing the overweight person.

And why is McDonalds ALWAYS attributed to overweight people?

As a point of clarification, my McDonalds analogy in no way was about why an overweight person got that way. It was simply an illustration in response to the idea that you should expect someone else to take part of what you've paid for, and if you don't like it, you should pay more to avoid that happening. The "squisher" in that analogy could have been rail-thin; their weight wasn't the point I was making.

It wasn't just your post...it's mentioned overall anytime a weight issue thread is posted.

I don't recall suggesting implicitly or otherwise that overweight people are 'sickening'.

I think a lot of knee-jerk resentment is being attributed to comments that were never actually made. I don't like flying at the best of times, and I certainly don't like being cramped. I've also yet to be in that situation where the person involved (nice as they might be off-plane) has been anything other than a total arsehole about it. That may explain my resentment towards that particular situation.

I don't recall her mentioning you. I know you stand by your "jabba the hut" comment, but it's stuff like that that hurts people's feelings. Or Gupt suggesting an airline with twinkie and shake sales. It's all over this thread, really.

I stand by the comment in relation to the various arseholes I have had to sit with on several long flights. If others choose to take it personally that's certainly not intended - but as I said in the context of a crowded, cramped flight I'm not inclined to feel sympathetic towards someone's problem, situation (or whatever PC terminology we want to use to describe it) - especially if that person approaches the situation with an air of disgruntled, uncompromising entitlement to every inch of space that they're depriving me.

I wasn't in any way referring to your assessment of certain people you've had the misfortune to be near during your flights. Hmmm...I don't think I mentioned that at all. No...I'm sure I didn't.

I am referring to the overall consensus of this thread...that overweight people should be penalized for being overweight. So far I've read complaints and ridiculous "solutions". I've seen overweight people referred to as "fatties" and other sad terms. Methinks maybe you're using this thread for your own agenda?

No agenda, but in the absence of a workable solution from the airlines to make specific provisions for 'wide seating' I think the onus on buying a second seat should be on the person causing the inconvenience.

The fact is - this already happens.

So now overweight people are an inconvenience. At what point does this type of judgmental attitude stop? The man or woman with the long legs in the back of your seat...are they also an inconvenience? The mother in front or in back of you with an unruly child...is she and the child also an inconvenience? The person next to you that snores...is this person also an inconvenience? How would you like to feel that YOU are an inconvenience because of some such issue of which you might not have much control over? When you refer to overweight people as causing inconveniences, what are you REALLY saying? Seems there is more to this than what you're saying.

If their long legs mean I have to perch on the edge of my seat, we've got a problem.

They are all inconveniences but I would suggest that most of them are controllable to a point - a person can be asked to not put their seat back all the way, a child can be silenced, someone who snores can be woken up - and most disputes can be resolved if not diplomatically - then with the aid of flight staff.

Whether or not I can fit into my seat because of the person sitting next to me isn't controllable - its a matter of simple physics.

That said there always a degree of discomfort associated with flying economy, but being able to occupy the entirety of the seat you've paid for is a bare-minimum standard IMO.

It's such a simple, common-sense point. I don't see the need to cloud the issue with assumptions that there must be some hidden agenda.

Hehe, last night I dreamed that I was taking a three-leg flight and all the seats were super roomy. One plane even had sofas. This thread is getting to me.

Was erekose in your dream - sitting next to Jabba the Hut?

It's not only someone whose overweight that can make your flight unpleasant, It's the airline responsibility, but with profit in mind, trying to crank up as many people they can in a plane, something gota give. and the passenger is the one that's being squeeze left and right. I recalled those good old days when you buy your ticket you expect to get a nice decent meal on the flight, a Pillow, and a blanket, nowadays it all seems to be so distant.

I was on a flight to korea and this guy with his lapto was elbowing me basically pinching me into my window seat, after about 30min I got fed up, so I asked him plainly if it's ok to lift up the divider because i am force to give up a 3rd of my seat due to his elbow. IF the company wants him to work on his flight, he should mentioned that to them and give him a business class ticket next time. Needless to say 10min later he turn off the laptop and I put the divider back down.

I think if you pay for a seat, you are entitled to your full seat. If someone is large enough to be infringing on your seat space, that is unfair to you.

I have a medical condition myself that predisposes me towards gaining weight. I devote a significant portion of my life to keeping the excess weight at bay, but I can afford the time to do so. Not everyone has that luxury, and I sympathize. It's not always a matter of 'eat less, exercise more' but people do not accept that, and continue to judge overweight people with strong overtones of revulsion and condemnation. I look like your average post-college woman who needs a gym membership and a better diet to lose those excess 15 pounds, but little do people know that I have to work out like a gym bunny and eat like a starlet just to stay a mere 15 pounds overweight. I have had co-workers wander over, see my lunch of super-heathy foods, and start offering me tips on how to start exercising. I think people could stand to be a little more compassionate towards those who struggle with their weight.

But by the same token, if you take up two seats of space, then you take up two tickets worth of space. It should not be the place of your seatmate or the airline to bear the cost of your dimensions.

Sad to admit that as an overly large woman, I am the one that made the "fatty" comment. But, my butz does fit the plane seats. Unfortunately for me, I tend to carry my extra baggage in thickness and not it width. As an insulin dependant diabetic, it is nearly impossible for me to lose weight by dieting, and with excersize I only muscle up. Nothing like having a 5' 9" 250 pound muscle sitting next to you either.
I don't know what the solution is to the dilemna here. No airplane I have ever been in was built for comfort that I could see. But all the "fat" jokes about McDonalds and Jabba the Hut are not going to help any either.