That's true - LOL

HAHAHAHA!!! That was funny... (thank God I have a sense of humor..not all have).. I know you were joking (i hope).. but also trying to bring up a point.. and I got it.

Ive been veiwing more vj suggestions.. I have to raise my hand to increasing seat size (like on RJ)and leg space by maybe 3 inches more.. because I know on some airlines.. their not all the same in seat size and configuration.. seriously. .. Oh Oh Oh.. was it just me.. or did anyone who has flown RJ.. (maybe not all RJ planes are the same) experience having to create or learn the art of eating (with elbows tucked in..no matter who your sittin next to)from their trays with a 100 containers and wrapprs (exaggerated) and be able to eat successfully without dropping anything? I actually did pretty good.. but would have enjoyed it better if I could relax my arms a little more. Haha.. had to laugh and joke about it with my flight neighbor. Anywaaaay.. this has been an interesting topic.. guess just something to talk about to pass the time as we await being reunited with the one we love.. Now back to daily life and checking my mailbox, case online and seeking answrs to things Im not sure of in this visa journey.. Alhumdulilah!!!

Excuse me? It's elitist and hateful to expect to be able to use the entirety of a seat I've paid full price for?

Also that making significant concessions for very large people would end up costing me money.

In a way this argument reminds me of the negative reaction from smokers to smoking bans in pubs and clubs - as though people offended by their filthy habit should just stay home, rather than for the smokers to concede that what they are doing actually impacts other people in a negative way.

scott & lai- no getting what you paid for isn't elitist or hateful...but calling people fat & suggesting they pay more for transportation is. an airline ticket is for transportation of a human from point a to point b. not how many heads of livestock from point a to point b.

erekose- how does providing a service to a larger person cost you more money? smoking in public places is a health issue. not wanting to sit next to someone or charging them extra because of their size or weight is elitist & crappy. like i said earlier you can change your seat.

Because significantly enlarging seats to accommodate outsize people would reduce the available passenger space on the aircraft - less seats = less profit for the airline = a cost passed on to the consumer. While seats are hardly luxurious - I never had a problem flying around Europe, just seems that here in the US people are generally larger than their equivalents in other countries.

That said, I don't think some airlines take passenger safety perhaps as seriously as they should - and seat size to some extent is the reason. Economy Class Syndrome is very real - but as far as I'm aware there has been no instances where a successful damages suit has been brought against an airline for passengers who have developed DVT from cramped seating. In fact, at least one ruling I read about actually protected the airline from any future liability on that issue.

And you often can't change your seat - last few flights I've taken have all been full and you don't know who you're sitting next to until the other person shows up.

i still don't agree w/ you about the extra charge thing. we've all got our opinions. but to maybe help you later, when you book your next flight ask for an aisle seat infront of or behind a bulk head, they tend to be the roomiest seats in economy.

19 COUNTRIES!!!! 41 STATES!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOWWWW!!!!!
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?? NO WAY!!!!!
I DIDNT EVEN KNOW WE HAD THAT MANY STATES.
MUCH LESS COUNTRIES
WOOOW
MEXICO, CANADA, USA, JAMAICA, FRANCE (FRENCH FRIES) AND HOLLAND FOR THE HERB SMOKERS. I THOUGHT THAT WAS IT!!

Yeah - but the issue is bigger seats. I'm on board with that to a point as I think some economy class seating is inhumane; but I don't agree with making specific concessions to accommodate very large people or obese people. Bigger seats ultimately mean less seats. Less seats means the flight overall is less profitable for the company. Less profit = higher prices.

I don't really see how there can be a dispute on that...it's basic economics.

Maybe someone should start a niche airline that caters to the overweight. Big seats but there will be all the twinkies and milshakes you can buy... that should make up for the cost differential due to the fact that there are now fewer seats.

I wouldn't be opposed to a modest increase if flights didn't cost so much already. Back in 2000 I was able to get a flight to Los Angeles for around 300 quid - today...

I don't think it's a fair comparison to ask the obese to stop being obese in the same way smokers can stop being smokers. Quitting smoking is very, very hard but asking the obese to stop being obese is asking them to change everything they know (in most cases) or overcome a medical problem they have no control over or eat a diet you yourself would probably have trouble conforming to and exercise at a level that would look easy to you but impossibly daunting to a very heavy person. At any rate, people can't just stop eating. It's a whole reeducation. Don't forget also that these people have it pretty hard in the day to day and many have no frame of reference for what healthy eating or living is as they have been that way their whole lives. It just isn't the same.

I'm really trying to find that funny.

Since I pay for 1 seat for myself, I expect not to share it with somebody else's body part.

Its not a comparison - but its the same basic principle. An obese person who sits next to me on a plane and who is spilling out of their seat and into mine (for whatever reason) is negatively impacting me. I just don't see why I should pay for that.

I once sat in front of a very tall guy, his legs were so long that I couldn't put my seat back even an inch - should he pay for the seat in front of him then? It sure is a pain if you are on an 14h+ flight and have to sit upright the entire time!

Or if someone puts their seat back into your lap. There's a degree of discomfort involved in coach class - that's why they have premium classes. But fitting into your assigned seat would seem to be a minimum standard IMO.

Side note--I think the recline function should be disabled. It's not like you really get into sleeping position anyway. Or, there should be a 5-hour period where it's allowed or something, and only on night-flights.

You don't have much of a choice if you're sat in the back bulkhead. Wife and I got stuck with that when we flew out to NJ. The family of 3 in front of us were all overweight and all of them put their seats all the way back. The dad snored too..

Or you could try these. But it may cause more problems than it's worth!

http://www.kneedefender.com/html2/buy2.htm

How does their being overweight contribute to the problem?

Knee Defenders. Wow.

As a farily tall guy (6' 1") I've always been paranoid about my toes (I take shoes off on long flights) being pinched by the recliner-hinge...



When you have to step around the guy who's half out in the aisle to get to the restroom.

I would not be suprised if a few airlines didn't ban them. I can only imagine the "discussions" that could occur between recliner and reclinee!

Personally I am with Alex on this. Either seats shouldn't recline at all or should only reline a very little bit. There is nothing worse than being able to do dental work on the person in front of you because they have reclined to the point where their heads are basically in your lap.

What has irritated me in the past is when "tall" people to the back of me complain when I recline my seat. They seem to think because I'm barely over 5-foot, I should be forced to chew-on the back of the guys neck in front of me who has reclined his seat so that I can preserve their "knee-room" since I "obviously" don't need any of my own.

The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) was asked about the use of Knee Defenders™ on commercial aircraft. As reported in the October 28, 2003 edition of The Washington Post, "FAA spokesman Paul Takemoto said the clips were not against federal aviation rules as long as they weren't used during taxiing, takeoffs or landings." Knee Defenders™ are specifically designed to be used with your tray table lowered, while your tray table must be up and locked "during taxiing, takeoffs or landings." So, as long as Knee Defenders™ are being used as they are designed to be used in flight, their use does not violate any US aviation law, rule, or regulation.

I'm sure Paul Takemoto did not consult with the flight attendants who would be the beneficiaries of the 'bad vibes' that would be caused by this product, assuming that the reclinee knew why his/her seat back was not reclining.

My personal airline pet peeve is elbow space.... seems like the first person to get to the seat clams all of the elbow rests. I've been unfortunate enough to be sandwiched in the center seat between 2 very large people who have claimed all of the elbow space...

I am traveling so much now that I generally get upgraded to first class, so I can't complain. But when I have to fly coach, I make sure I board as soon as I can to 'claim my space', not only in my seat, but in the nearest overhead bin. It's ridiculous.

The idea was to ask the obese to pay more, not to stop being obese.

I don't find it particularly unfair either. The obese already spend more money on food,
clothes, doctor appointments and prescription drugs amongst other things. Why not
plane tickets also?

Okay, imagine this scenario.
The airlines have decided that they must make X amount of dollars profit for each flight.
You want to go to ?????? to see your SO, so you go online and purchase a ticket. On the day of your flight, you travel to the airport, check in and board the plane. You notice the plane is not full and there are plenty of empty seats, including the one next to you. Great! More room for you to relax in on your 14 hour flight. Right?
Then suddenly the pilot's voice comes over the PA system.
"Ladies and Gentlemen, We regret to inform you that because BFE Airlines Flight#360, is not full to it's capacity, everyone must pay an extra fee. Based on our calculations, the extra fee will be $XXXX.XX. An agent of BFE Air will be coming to each of you to collect the fees, please have your credit card ready. For those of you unable to pay the increased fee, you will be escorted off of the plane and you will be notified by mail where and when you can retrieve your luggage. We regret to inform you that none of your ticket purchase price will be refunded to you. BFE takes no resonsibility for the fact that the seats on this flight were not filled. For those of you able to pay the increased fee, We at BFE Airlines wish you a pleasant flight"
I would also like to say that maybe the "obese" person you are sitting next to, isn't any more comfortable sitting next to you than you are to him. I have seen other people on flights request to move to another seat. The flght was full, but with a few words from the staff, the problem was remedied and everyone was happy.

i've never had an extremely large person sit next to me on a plane...

however, i have had people constantly kicking or nudging the back of my seat. people who talk extremely loud, and you name the other annoyance. but never someone who spilled over into mine. i imagine having someone constantly kick my seat would be far more annoying than someone who is slightly spilled into my side.

i've also had men who seem to need to stretch their knees wide open as far as they can to make room for their prize possession and into my space. thats just as annoying as i imagine a large person would be in your seat. so should men who spread their legs wide have to pay extra too? lol!!!

I wonder if anyone would reconsider their position on this if they were stuck in a window seat on a 18 hour flight to Sydney, Australia with a 400lb Jabba the Hut sitting next to them who is crushing you against the window and takes an eternity to get up when you need to take a pi$$...

Obviously nobody thinks it's comfortable sitting next to someone very very large. Obviously the very very large person is probably not that comfortable either. But I think your comments about overweight people are getting a little bit out of line, and I don't think they're worth the cheap laugh.

Its honestly hard to sympathize with someone who is inconveniencing you in that manner. Short of the airlines refitting their fleets - which won't happen, so what remains is that they pay for the extra room they are occupying. I mean... someone has to...

But do you sympathize with those people at times when you aren't forced to sit next to them?

I dont think larger people should be forced to buy two seats unless they will be imposing themselves on the person next to them. Any morbidly obese person will likely know whether or not they fit into a standard plane seat, and would not want the embarrasment of not fitting into the seat, or spilling over into another's seat. A solution could be to book flights well in advance where possible, and make a conscious effort to lose weight before take-off.

I do feel however that there should be minimum requirements for parents boarding flights with small children. Mainly that they are able to control their offspring by ensuring there is no screaming, shouting, kicking seats, whining, or running up and down the aisles during a night flight when everyone is trying to sleep. It seems that every flight I have ever been on has included an outstandingly bad parent with a total $hit of a brat.

Selfish this is - but unless they're impacting me - I don't sympathise with them or think about them much at all. Even the nicest people turn into complete a$$holes on planes, IMO. I'd also hazard a guess that most people don't take much of any notice of any other passengers sitting outside of their immediate area.

Ever had someone tell you to f*** off in response to: "Excuse me sir, would you mind putting your seat forward a bit?". I have.

I'm not suggesting you think about the plight of the obese all the time or anything, but I don't understand why it's ok in our society to mock them without regard for their feelings. You seem to really not respect them, and I asked whether or not that is something you feel toward them in your daily life, or just on planes.

Actually you asked "when I'm not forced to sit next to them". I assumed you were still talking about airplane flights.

I have nothing against overweight people - but in the context of a cramped plane ride being squished in your seat is much the same as having some guys head in your lap, having someone kick your seat, have to put up with someone's noisy kid or sit next to a farter. None of that inspires sympathy IMO - and I find that planes are, generally speaking, not the happiest or most positive places to be (which is actually the reason that I hate flying).

BTW - who am I mocking exactly. Its not like the guy who sat next to me on the flight to LA (not Sydney) is reading this thread...

Yes, but lots and lots of overweight/obese people are, and if I were a large man, I would feel bad that others think of me as some Jabba the Hut. It's not that easy, losing weight, especially for the very large.

I wouldn't get fixated on that comment - I restrict it solely to several bad flights I had involving people who were a$$holes for reasons other than being overweight.

Point is if you had to sit next to someone like that for 11 hours, however nice you were and however nice they were - its a fair bet that you would get off the flight loathing each other.

So true Erekose.

I get Air Rage. I don' t care who you are or how nice you are, after a few hours on a plane- I hate everyone.

Mass transit is a necessary evil - that's why I take plenty of distractions with me - Books, iPods, Gameboys, notepads - and dark glasses. One of the worst things I find are the passengers who don't pick up on the signals that you don't want to talk to them and try to start a conversation anyway.

As a fat man, I am deeply offended.

Sympathy is irrelevant in this context. When someone is directly negatively impacting you and encroaching on your personal space you're hardly likely to feel overly sensitive to their condition, whatever it may be.

well based on the way you've been flaming overweight people for 2 days now, i'm kinda doubting thats what was said on your part, but i can believe that was the response you recieved.

Hardly qualifies as flaming IMO - its not as though I seek out people to belittle for their physical shortcomings. We are (at least, I am) talking about a specific context - economy class plane travel. So political correctness aside - in this context sympathy is irrelevant IMO.

Let use another example. Would you honestly say, that you sympathise with the guy sitting next to you - who is stricken with irritable bowel syndrome throughout the flight with the result that he farts constantly and uncontrollably. Are you thinking - "wow that must be awful for him - I'm so sorry that he has to go through this"? or are your thoughts more concerned with the quality of the air your breathing and that fact that its putting you off your food?