Esalaam/Salut/Hello

With all the new members, unforunate stories of past members and so many cultural differences ... I think we should make a "official" MENA Cultural Difference Awareness thread. Post about little or major things that are different that surprised, shocked and confused you. And hopefully this wil help everyone to understand their MENA SOs (and their family, society) and live a much happier life together.

Capt'n Can we get this pinned?

What a great idea, Henia! My husband and I were talking the other day about the differences between the US and Jordan. I tried to explain to him that most of the differences weren't difficult to learn, they were just...well, different. There are some things that I do worry about, the difference in the way women in the US dress, the open sexuality. I wonder how he will react to them, but there is no real way to inform him of these things that I can think of. I'll be interested to hear the ideas of others.

Henia - I really enjoyed your post about Algerian weddings. There are some similiarities to a Moroccan wedding. I'm basing that on a few that I've been to. I really had a chuckle about the women dressing up like hoochies because the last wedding I went to while I was visiting Hicham...there were some women dressed like that.

As far as cultural differences, once I got to know my husband and his family, I found that what I had grown up thinking was "Arab" culture, was not what it was really like. I have a very small family and they aren't close. It was a real change for me to be in the midst of a very loud, large but loving family.

One thing I do have to say that I've noticed when I do go to Morocco is how people stare. Not so much at me, but just how everyone is so busy checking everyone else out. Does that make sense?

Oh, and how my husband and I feel about dogs are completely different. I was raised always having a dog for a pet. They were allowed in the house too. Hicham likes dogs, but definitely he definitely feels they need to stay outside. We had problems with that at first. But especially now that our son has come along, I do agree that the dogs don't need to be inside and all in his face.

When coming to the US, the one difference that almost every Moroccan will comment on is the lack of real connectedness among American families. In Morocco the family is everything, especially the parents. Understanding, or even better, sharing this value will go a long way in making the relationship work.

We just have a BIG discussion yesterday on lets say manners. He owns a store and he said if someone comes there and does not say hello or something equal he just ignores them. I told him although we all know manners here and it would be nice not everyone will be so friendly and nice and if he just ignores them he will undoubtly have many problems. Then with some if they do not say something like maybe "how are you" he will just say "im fine thank you for asking" i told him that was rude to bring attention for that but he said was his way to bring "sense" so they will know again i told him doent expect from everyone here and it wasnt his job to educate everyone to those facts. Manners and respect for others are very high on his list.

Family is very important and he often doesnt understand sometimes why i have not seen or talked to "whomever"

Credit to i think will be new to him, bills seem to really bother him..

This is a great idea for a thread, and I hope people will fill it up. Too often on ME/NA, or VJ in general really, people only bring up cultural differences when they're worried about fraud or have a problem.

Which makes everyone very defensive and leads to sniping and denial. This thread is good because people will be able to post things without a recent 'scandal' being on everyone's mind.

I have the same problem with my wife. At first she hated my chihuahua, but as time has gone on she's learned to like him. But Timmy unfortunately will pee in the house if you're not vigilant, so he has to stay outside to sleep, which in SoCal is not a problem. When it's cold he just buries himself in his blankets and he's fine.

Oh, one thing about a dog's mouth: it's cleaner than yours. There are fewer bacteria in a dog's mouth than in a typical human's.

I hate to say this, because it's kind of gross, but when my dog was still alive, many years ago, I used to catch him eating poo outside. I really doubt his mouth was cleaner than mine, as that's not a habit I have.

Here's one we discovered yesterday, but it may be personal rather than cultural. The kitchen cupboards in our apartment have wooden doors painted white. Yesterday, I noticed they were all open, so I was closing them all. My fiance remarked that he liked the look of all of them wide open because it looks more welcoming to him to see our dishes, containers of flour and rice, spices, etc. Growing up here, I was taught to make the kitchen as uncluttered as possible, although it doesn't bother me if a door or two stands open. So we have decided that when we buy a house, we will put glass doors on most of the cupboards. If we leave them open now, I'll be thwacking my head on them too often, and he won't enjoy my swearing.

I grew up eating dinner with family every night, but there is still a big difference in our mealtime traditions. He uses silverware when we eat out (most of the time ) or with my parents, but we share a dish at home and eat with our hands more than I ever did before. When he and I go to restaurants now, we order two plates, but we choose things we both like and put them in the middle instead of one in front of each of us, or we order "whatever for two" and share a big plate. We do have separate drinking glasses most of the time (this is not always true in Morocco), but he'll just swipe mine if he runs out or if mine looks better He knows the "American" way of eating, but I must say that I love the feeling of generosity and intimacy reflected in his mealtime traditions. This is probably the area where I've encorporated his traditions the most so far.

duplicate...

I'm with ya there Melly. Our dogs eat anything they can put into their mouth including rabbit poop on a daily basis.

I don't know if this is cultural or just traits of my husband but here is what I've noticed:

* he will not look a woman that he does not know in the eyes. I told him that he will have to do this here if he wants to sell anything to them 'cause otherwise they will be offended.

* we had a few of his friends over one night and one of them remarked that they would love some of my starbucks coffee so he could make it himself. I gave him the whole bag of it that I had since I had no use for it (I couldn't figure out a way to make it since there was no coffee maker). Usama took me aside in the kitchen and told me to only give him a portion, and never to give anyone the whole thing. For example I'd give someone a whole pack of gum if I were there but he'd prefer me just to give them one or two pieces.

* he always said something when we stepped into the house. I could never remember what it was but he said he was saying hi to the angels when he did this.

* as soon as we'd get into a cab after he'd finish negotiating the price he'd offer the cabbie a cigarette first, and if they declined then he'd offer them lib.

Please note: I was referring to bacteria, not poop. By that standard, yes a dog's mouth is cleaner than yours. I agree, I certainly don't want my dog licking my face after he's been licking his balls.

One of the biggest differences I see that already seems to bother him before he even gets here is the lack of community and family closeness. I dont know how many times someone in the neighborhood has died and Mo goes to help prepare them. If someone in his family is sick, everyone is there. At his house there is always extended family coming and going. He ask me about some of my aunts or cousins and I have to think hard when the last time I saw them was.

I absolutely hate this. I never mind sharing my food with my husband but I HATE HATE HATE when he eats off the plate that I am eating from. I guess this is because I am a very slow eatier and if he starts eating from my plate I'll eat half of what I had orginally planned. :-(

One thing I do like about Moroccan eating is the amount of bread. I <3 bread.

I just thought of something.........1 hour US time = 3 hours MENA time.




THAT took some getting used to!!!! I"m kind of worried that he won't adapt when he's here since people tend to frown on showing up for work late!!!

Don't worry, Doodle, they adapt. I've had two MENA husbands and they both realize that being on time is important here. My ex is late for everything that isn't "important" but things like work and appts. he's on time.

Yeah, you are right! I had forgotten about that. While Hicham and I were dating, I would go to visit my grandfather in the nursing home and sometimes take him places and Hicham couldn't understand why he was in there in the first place. He was upset about it.

I would definitely agree that mealtimes are different. My family has always been about eating quietly and using your manners. With Hicham's family (he's got 4 brothers and a sister), it's loud and you've got to act fast to get food off the "big" plate. But my husband's father has always been good to get me a small plate that he will put food on for me. But I really enjoy being in the midst of all that and they are really a close family.

Another difference that I've noticed not just about my husband, but other Moroccans that I have met, is how superstitious they are. We had an owl that lived in a tree by the house and Hicham would talk about that being bad luck. Lots of different things like that. Anyone else have expierence about that?

Yes. Usama is afraid of my cat 'cause she's black. I keep telling him not to worry since she has auburn streaks in her hair. lol. I do all I can to ease his fears, i.e. put her in front of the cam and she even purred for him too but he's still petrified.

well the first one and third one are Islamic.. 2nd and 4th.. they are cultural.

The first.. Honestly I think it is a Good thing.. I have MORE respect for the men that look to the ground.. My husband also will NOT shake the hand of a woman either.. Alhamdulillah.. I love him for this.. AND i would NOT want this to change while he was in America

the third.. You step into your house with the Right foot... You can say.. Asalaamu AleiNah wa rahmatullahi wa barikatu - Like when you say Asalaam Aleikum.. but instead of saying Aleikum (blessings to YOU - the other person).. you say AleiNAH (Like saying it to your self).. OR you can say.. Bismillahi wa lajna wa Bismillahi kharajna wa alaa Rabbina tawakkalna (In the name of Allah we enter, In the name of Allah we leave and we trust our Lord)

lol...you should have heard me everytime he said that. I would try to say it too but I'd just say it wicked fast so he wouldn't know I was messing it up. Just like when we end our phonecalls....I'm the one who always says the last part of the shahada but the few times he's asked me to say it first I just fly through it like it's one big word and then he makes me repeat it S-L-O-W and I just give up and say "you say it!!! that's your part to say!!!!"

well you should hear me when we have not had the best conversation and I'm Ticked off.. I yell back "MOHAMADAN RASOULLAH!!!!!!!!!!!" (astaghfirllah...) and slam the phone


and when ever he hears a Donkey going off... He's always like... "you hear that?? that is Shaytan!"

Just a random thought but I would think not hearing the call to prayer would effect them some once they come here. He told me the other day, "habibi when I am there we will go to the mosque as soon as we hear the call to prayer"




Ok 1) there is no call to prayer unless you're counting the one on the watch I'm thinking of getting you and 2) in order to get to a mosque it's a good 10 to 15 minute DRIVE......


I personally think he'll really miss that sound.

There are athan alarm clocks that do the call to prayer at prayer times. It's not the same thing but it's as close as you may get in your area. Personally I can't stand those clocks cuz the athan will call out of no where and scare the pants off of you.

Shooot... I really miss the adhans.. the sounds.. and I wasnt even born there!! HENCE why I made a Video so I can watch it over and over - and then get really depressed

How about anybody else who has their practicing Muslim Husband in a NON islamic country..?? Did it affect your SO???

When Hicham and I have gotten into arguments and he gets really mad, he'll walk off talking in Arabic. I would always tell him to quit "cussing" me. Even in another language, I could tell what he was saying wasn't nice! After we got over our spat, he would laugh at me about that.

You should tell him that there is an Irish tradition of a black cat being good luck.

I know what you mean about missing the call to prayer. Hicham and I have a set time that we talk and it's during one of the calls so I can usually hear it in the background. I really miss being there and listening to the morning call and the birds chirping and singing outside. It's a very lovely sound.

We don't live close enough to the mosque to hear it, but my sister's friend has heard it when he happened to pass by there at the right time. My fiancé has told me he doesn't think about it too much, but I loved hearing it when I was in Morocco. It is in one of our videos when we were outside on a lovely morning in January. I did download the program from islamicfinder.com that plays a recording of it on my computer automatically, but he doesn't have it on his, although he has played for me some beautiful recordings of readings from the Qu'ran.

I have the adhan downloaded on my computer.. BUT i think I will have to buy a regular alarm for him.. I'm used to printing out a sheet from the computer and then constantly checking the time when I am NOT near the computer... Its MUCH DIFFERENT when I comes blasting through your windows!!!!

I had it downloaded from islamicfinder on my kids computer and the speakers were on pretty loud. I forgot I had downloaded it and they nearly jumped off their seats one day when they were playing some spongebob game and it suddenly blared from the speakers!!!!! OMG I had to take it off of their computer 'cause it really scared them since they had no clue what it was.

Esalaam/Hello/Salut

I am sure glad I found this thread again. I was off for while and was not able to read and post. Unforunately it is not pinned... I am still wishing it would be.

But I am proud of everyone that so far (and plz donnot mess that up anyone. Much appreciate) that is has been decent!!! MABROUKS everyone! Chukran bezaaf! (or for your Masris awe aweee LOL ...just kidding)
Everything posted so far, I just wanted to comment on saying YES I TOTALLY AGREE, but after reading them decided to just write at the end I agree with all them, to save space.

I know many MENAs have some issues with dogs, due to the Hadiths on dogs in the home... but in my experience many that come over here to the US, after a time have adjusted, started loving them and many actually have dogs now.

Doodle: Yes MENA time, when you are dealing with actual ppl you know, like for example a rendez-vouz then I would give 3hours, but if you are dealing with adminastration I would say days if not weeks.

Jamie_Mona: I have noticed all over the MENA they like to delay their knick-knacks (remember grandma?!LOL) but esp in the Maghreb they seem to love to not only display knick knacks but their dishes, spices, anything flashy, sparkly... I know my husband's family have vast amounts of mismatched dishes, vases, pots,tajines, decorative anything that they display in their china cabinets ( bibliotechs) A mirage of colours blinding to the eye LOL. But never I have yet, see in any home (other then the Qurán) seen any books on shelfs displayed. LOLOL Something I find amusing.

Also wanted to add, the is (for the most part) a great sexual ignorance in MENA. Most MENAs unless married before have little to no sexuality (and in this category I include basic love,flirting, tenderness....funny cos most of their songs are about thiswhat so ever. The men (and some women too) do get online look at porn, chat, etc. But are really blind..ignorant to basic sexuality. I know in my own husband's family the women asked me questions of how to do this or that... as far as I could tell, their knowledge of pleasing their mate did not go past cooking, making sons and wearing gaudy make-up and clohtes. They just look at me like i was insane, for wanting to spent as much time as I did with my husband, esp when he wa s in the hospital.

So anyway... more when it comes to me...

But you have to admit it is true. (And I am not talking about anything obsence, coarse and disgusting) I mean since Islam, the main religion for most MENA ppl allowed for human sexuality, unlike other religions. I mean there is a lack of sexual education and sexual psychology.

I am not disagreeing but I just don't think you're gonna get a lot of people to talk about the subject since it's kind of personal.

It was not my intention to start any conversation on that topic. I merely, added one more cultural difference to the already growing list.

This might be slightly off topic, but has anyone come across forms of racism against MENA members that immigrated out of MENA. For example, the Algerians that for whatever reason immigrated out of Algeria to France are refered to as beur boys. And are often called by offensive names, such as 'l’émigré', but the beur girls are referred to as amjah (lost) and merula (a woman of loose morals). During my travels some beurs told me about these problems stating "in Algeria I’m seen as an immigrant, a foreigner." We may suppose that a lot of the resentment experienced by visiting beurs is probably fuelled by jealousy, as very many Algerians cannot leave the country and face long-term unemployment at home.

And also has (of course you all have) noticed the high concept of honour in MENA nations? In Algerie honour is a foundation block of Algerian society. Honour is delicately intertwined with a family’s good name their reputation. If someone is honourable, the family is honourable and if an individual is shamed the family is shamed. As a result the behaviour of individual family members is viewed as the direct responsibility of the family. Honour can be lost in many ways, for example Algerians believe that turning down a friend’s request for a favour causes the other person to lose honour. Therefore, they will agree to do something rather than risk either party losing face. Things I noticed people were very careful to watch out for are criticizing others, insulting them, any comments that may be considered harassements to family members, esp females or putting them in a position that will be uncomfortable. By dishonouring someone you also spoil the relationship and respect as citizens. Also preserving honour/reputation is important. Algerians will try to preserve their reputations telling people what they think they want to hear even if it is not the truth.

Also another point I would like to add is the gift giving. Something, in my own culture I am very used. But rarely see in the US. Gift giving is a part of Algerian culture that is used to cement relationships. The gesture of giving is more important than the gift. I know when we would even visit our neighbour I would bring pastries, some food that I had cooked that day, fruit, or flowers for not so close people. In fact, giving and sharing food in Algeria is similar to an artform. When you cook something, you are proud of you go pass a plate of it to your relatives, neighbours and friends to impress them. Dishes then in turn, are never returned empty. At our table, we would always have 2-3 extra "gift" dishes. Even more during holidays.
Children will always appreciate sweets I baked! Gifts are not usually opened when received in front of the giver. I know I discovered this fact, after literally trying to push my relatives (the children) to open the gifts I bought them. I instantly figured out I did a cultural faux-pas. And another FYI give gifts with the right or both hands. And look them in the eye smiling. If you do not look them in the eye, for sure they will think the gift is not genuine and say words to ward off the evil-eye LOL!

Also I think in MENA generally there is an open-door policy for doing business and within families, that is not in the US. Algerians sure have this an open-door policy, even during meetings. Meaning I experienced frequent interruptions in all my dealing with the dairas. People wander into the room and start a different discussion. Which also the case, in the standing in lines. There is no line. Just a mass cluster of people, pushing and shoving their way to the front only to yell at the person behind the counter to help them. Try that in the US!

Also and lastly the issue of personal space and nosiness comes to mind. Algerians do not leave a great deal of personal space between each other. If someone stands close to you or holds your arm, do not back away. Even in the bus, there are not shy to just stand so close to you, they are basically rubbing up against you. I found this out when communicating with Algerians, i.e. not causing them to lose face especially in public. Like in the beginning I would back up quite a bit.

My husband has said that he and his family have experienced prejudice against them since they are Palestinian. The Moroccan government has been especially hard on them. They have lived there since '68 and do not have residency. Even though my husband and two of his brothers were born there!

I chuckled about the "evil eye". My husband sent me home from one of my visits with the silver plate and hand...hamza al enake. He talks about that alot.

My husband spent several years here in the states going to school and he commented then and just recently about the "nosiness" of Moroccans. Sounds like it's not just a Moroccan thing, but a MENA thing.

It is very unforunate for your family. I am truly sorry. The plead of the Pali ppl is never-ending and as we can all see not even helped by their fellow Muslims. Shame on the Marocain goverment.
Nosiness is just generally a MENA thing. But in the Maghreb, in my experience Tunezians are the most nosiest. And Libyans by standard the quietest. I have several times, been out and about in the city, at parties and gathering where I am literally at yelled at - not talked to. And however this may sound, generally in the Maghreb I have noticed the menage Arabs are the loud people. Not so much the Kabyles. And women more so then the men. And the older the louder they get for some reason. And it is always cos they are hard of hearing or senile.

They are loud. I remember my husband telling me when we first met that when you see two Arabs waving their arms and talking real loud, more than likely they aren't having an argument....just talking!

I had to chuckle at this one. My fiances mother is loud. When we talk on the cell or skype I always ask what is she upset about. He says she's not upset she's talking on the phone!!! I can hardly believe it. She SOUNDS angry...but he declares she's not.

I can relate to the loud family. Every Friday when his sisters come home to visit, its so loud there. He is a quiet man and loves kids, but there are times he would rather stay in a closet then deal with the noise. So I think our home will be a bit quieter, alhamdolellah.

I think the biggest thing he will face here is the way women dress, and act. For three years he could hardly look ME in the eye!!! At first I found it sweet, by the third year I finally asked him to start looking in my eyes when we talked. But JUST MINE!!! LOL. We talked about how women here dress and he is amazed. I dont' think he believes me. I tried to tell him that in SOME cases a woman at work may even flirt with him since he is so tall and attractive. He laughs and says, no they won't do that. Women don't do that there do they??? He was warned.

He will miss the noise of the streets of Cairo. Our home is NOT in the city and its soo quiet here. I think he will just miss the all around noise and the ease of just getting around will be harder to. He can't imagine NOT walking to the store!!! (Its way to far here to walk..by AMERICAN standards at least) He can't imagine not being able to walk out his front door and finding public transportation.

The work week is another adjustment I think. If Im correct in Egypt, they work 5-6 hour days, and 6 days a week. I know they just had their flat painted and it took the painter 2 weeks to paint THREE rooms. This drove me nuts as he wasn't able to meet at our regular times and I never dreamt it would take THAT long to paint THREE SMALL rooms!!! Anyways, come to find out sometimes the man would leave for hours in the middle of the day. But even THEN!! I finally had an image of this painter painting with a toothbruth NOT a paint brush or roller!!! HAHAHAHAHA

well that is actually quite common... I had a friend that is palestinian.. His parents were forced out of Palestine.. lived in the camps on Lebanon.. He was Born in Lebanon.. BUT they will not "acknowledge" him as Lebanese.. and he isnt "acknowledged" by palestine.. It is very hard from him.. He feels very lost. He doesnt have papers from either countries.

Does your husband not watch TV? Even in Egypt you can see scantily clad women on TV (usually on the Lebanese channels or American movies and TV shows via satellite). My husband was not a bit shocked about how some women dress here. This not looking women in the eye thing is puzzling to me.

My husband does the not looking women in the eye thing too. Maybe it depends on where you grew up? I dunno. It's only the non-mahrem (sp?) women that he does it with but I told him he is going to have to change that.

As for not seeing women he told me *I* will be shocked when I see how the women are dressed on the beaches there so I don't know how he could miss that unless he totally stays inside all day long.

I forgot to add...I went to a lecture once where the women were on one side and the men were on the other and when one of the men went up to lecture I thought it odd that when a woman asked a question he looked at the men. He NEVER looked at us even once. I mentioned that I thought he was being rude to a few and they said it's how he is and that his deen is at such a level that he does not look at women that are non-mahrem.

I wouldn't say that about my husband's deen so I dunno what that's all about either, i.e. where it stems from.

My husband looks everyone in the eye when he's talking to them. He's kinda like me in the belief that it's rude to speak with someone without looking them in the eye. I don't think it matters where they grow up or live. I guess it depends on the person.

ETA...I only went to the beach during the day once while in Alex. Most women were fully clothed. I even saw a few niqabis swimming. I didn't see not a one grown woman in an actual bathing suit.

I am hapy that my husband and my dog have gotten along and she sleeps in her dog bed at the end of our bed. We take her for walks everyday and he wants to hold the lead. He feeds her food after he is done eating and loves to give her treats.

Family is very different and he likes to spend time with one of my brothers as he says that he is very hospitable. That he makes him feel like family, I have found that he dislikes when we go to a friends home that they don't welcome us like they do in the MENA. Some do but the ones that don't he don't want to go back. I understand cos when people come to our home I have learned to offer tea, coffe, soda and he wants me to offer treats or invite them to stay for a meal. I usally treat people this way but after they have been here a few times I tell them to help themselves but he wants me to wait on them.

He said that the women in Jordan and Kuwait dress similar to the women here, yes we have alot more showing but when I was in Jordan I also seen women dressing as women here do. I am very greatful cos I have a 16 yr old daughter with friends that dress not so covered up.

One thing that was not mentioned is the driving differences. I have read that many don't drive, well my husband does. It was different trying to have him obey the rules of the road, he said that in Jordan they have rules but no one uses them. The seat belt is another thing, he and his friends laughed at me everytime they seen me but on my seatbelt when I was in Jordan, now he is used to wearing it now.

Make sure that they don't try and bring the sim card from the cell phone and expect it to work here. I tried to tell him to list tme all in an email and email them to his self or to put it in the contect info in Yahoo. Well he thought he knew better then I, guess what he has to call his friends that he has the numbers and is now believing i knew what I was talking about.

The main thing that he needed fromt he store right away was tahina sauce. Other then that he said everything is ok but the meat. So make sure you know where to be able to get the meat and other stuff so that it is on hand. He loves Mexican food, not to hip on biscuits and gravy. I have found the only oil is extra virgin olive oil ir it upsets his stomach. The greasy gravy is not a good thing, i guess that is why they don't have as much heart problems as we do.

think hard about how they will comunicate with the loved one's in their country.

That is stems from the Surat that says: "Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allâh is All-Aware of what they do." Qur'an - Surat 24:30 So in essence men all over MENA, so more in ME then NA generally do not look at strange women, and for the religious this goes even beyond that a step furthernot looking directly at the eyes or or looking slightly up when speaking up. This is sign of great honour and piety. I would not be offended at all. And as we all know MENA men have that great honour to protect. Believe me, I have seen many a fights over just a glance.

But not to say everyone follows this rule. I know mostly only the religious follow this in NA, where male-female interaction is more liberal. I know my ex looked everyone in the eye, while most of his brothers did not. My husband now, of course looks everyone in the eye, bu the does have several religious family members who look non-mahram women in the eye

Bisciuits and gravy you say?

I just remembered something Moh and I had discussed last week. He commented on how here in the US we act respectfully and polite to ppl who "serve" us..meaning cashiers, ppl who work in grocery stores, etc. He said in Egypt ppl tend to be somewhat rude to those types of ppl. We discussed how here in the US ppl are usually not judged by how much money they have or what their social status it...for the most part. But in Egypt there is definitely a difference in treatment depending on these things.