Wow, what is going on here in the UK? Dare to disagree & your post will be made invisible?

Shocking, truly.

It sure is..... it would seam that only OH I AM SO SOORY POSTS ARE ALL THAT ARE ALLOWED.....

Dude I gotta stay out of my PM inbox cos I miss everything.

i agree, with sister devilette..censorship is wrong..this is an open forum..i read your post and becca's and kez, i saw nothing negative in your comments, or dr ila either

The posts I made invisible today would have lead to a flaming of some kind. As a mod, it is my duty to try and avoid these issues happening where possible. If I can nip something in the bud, I will. Today's was a culmination of some issues in the UK forum that have gone on for a couple of days.

Both these topics were locked due to flaming. The same would have happened with this thread. I acted accordingly to avoid a similar thing happening again.

I'm sorry if people were offended by this, but I stand by my decision.



Kezzie had a post made invisible because it quoted someone else's. I have not made anyone else's invisible today.

Why is the current post not locked then, instead of censoring? There is no consistency here.

Yesterday post was locked 'by request of the OP' - no mention was made of 'closed for violating the TOS'. Yet the vicious attack made against me was a clear violation of at least 4 points in the TOS.

I think the initial post is pretty inflamatory

if you remove Heina's post(and I only have to look in her post history for examples of why these kinds of posts are being made - I'm not saying it makes it right but why bad feelings exist ), I think the entire thread should be removed

Because it still has value. It is a goodbye post, people can still say goodbye. There is no reason at present for it to be locked if people can bite their tongues.

Yet, she can attack on her way out the door? Oh that seems fair. What is going on here? Geez.

This is not about censorship - what was said was inflammatory, and actually there were some little "digs" that have slipped by previously. It is at this point beating a dead horse, both sides will have to agree to disagree.

Say goodbyes per the topic of the thread, there is no need to continue to attack each other.


as an aside - yes, I probably should have closed yesterday's thread stating it was a combination of violation of TOS and per OP request. My mistake, and I apologize.

I would say that most of the "violations of TOS" were from the OP though, and not by other posters who got their posts deleted.

I'm just gonna put it out there - instigator and all that.

I hate like the devil what has happened in H_A's personal life. No one with half a heart would be 'happy' about what's happened to her.

But for her to comment on the 'tone' of VJ is a bit disingenuous. Pot/kettle, and all those various and sundry comparisons.

That irony has not escaped me, and it obviously didn't escape others. The only difference was I chose not to say so in the thread.

Agreed.

So if posts are being removed because they are inflamatory the why is this still there????



Apply the rules to all not just to some...

Kez

If you are going to make negative posts invisible rather than warning/banning/closing you should be prepared to be consistent. You have about 10,000+ visible that need to be addressed right now. Many of the posts that need to be taken care of came from the very person you have decided to "protect". This was a poor way to handle it.

and



Wow, name change of my thread! Yes, censorship was appropriate. Damn, this is Big Brother!!!!

I vote for a mod empeachment!

I've been accused of being biased towards H_A before, which is total rubbish. However, perhaps I am simply more sympathetic to her current plight. She has just been told that her husband is leaving her. Her emotions are raw. She is going to vent and she is going to sound angry.

I'm going to give her a little leeway because of that. Crucify me if you must.

The rest of VJ however (who are not in similar situations) are not hurting, venting or feeling raw, not to the same extent. A little sympathy wouldn't go amiss and if you CAN'T feel sympathy then I request that you just stay away from her thread. Simple.

There was no need for many of the comments that were said, it did seem to me that the whole situation was used as an opportunity to get in little digs. That makes me incredibly sad. Sad that there are people around who will use some one else's utter devastation to have a go.

As someone who mods a forum myself, and has done for 10+ years, I'd say that deleting posts always leads to bad feeling, so I would rather not do it at all.

The better way to handle this is just to lock a thread when it gets out of hand, that way everyone just cools off and there's very little recriminations.

Of course this isn't my website, so clearly I have no say in how it is run, this is just a suggestion.

Given the nature of VJ in the last few months, I personally think the mods are trying their darnest to be the clowns in the middle of this rodeo ring. Its a thankless job.

Which is better - no moderation at all, which has gotten the board where it is now - or mods?

I don't like the idea of having 'go' at someone when they're down, either; but unfortunately, that person's 'track record' and nature of posting in the past has bitten them now, albeit at a vulnerable time.

Mags, with all due respect, you are incorrect.

You do not know what the rest of VJ is going through, so you can't speak for them.

As j&m said, there is NO consistency. What about all the digs H_A has made in the past?

I did not quote heina's post all I said was "heina I hear ya!" and as the captain has quoated heina comment in the thread there was no need to make my post disapear....

Kez

All I have to say is that making posts invisible seems to incite more flame warring than it prevents. I guess maybe we should see what better solution exists, if any. Other boards that I'm on have inflammatory posts deleted all the time, especially when they are in the on-topic areas of the forum, and no one says a thing about it. Maybe the difference is that it's a professional board, so people are less willing to put up with any crap.

And I repeat...

I think that the system is not perfect of course. One member had a very hard personal situation (a nasty divorce) and was clearly upset. THere were posts in the topic both supporting and not. I think the problem was that bickering ensued. From there it bacame personal attacks and more.

Here is the thing. We can enforce the TOS to the "T" however in the end we are all adults. We have to learn to balance compassion as well as learn to let certain things people say brush off. I am not sure how to really put this into words but clearly when there is an emotional situation things can be said in the heat of the moment that are more rude than normal.

The mods felt they wanted to diffuse the situation and keep the topic "on topic" by removing personal jabs (or try to get the ones shey spotted). I have PM'd most members that were involved and discussed the situation. Bottom line is that everyone has been asked to consider the situation in light of the circumstances and to not resort to personal attacks or belittling each other.

I think cutting some slack until now due to the emotional issue was ok but if attacks continue by either side or anyone, I will be more stringint in enforcing the TOS.

Please lets all just remember the core values of the site to support and respect each other -- both sides should remember this.

I am moving this back to the UK forum as it is primarily a UK issue and not a general site related issue. I would prefer future posts on thgis be made there as well.

Thanks!

Great to know it won't be closed so that we can continue the conversation.

Nope not closing, only if it gets out of hand. Just moved back to the forum it related to.

No need to close this post--just delete the items you don't like.

Just checkin!

The mods can make posts invisible that violate the TOS however in some cases it is a thine line to walk. It is good that maybe we discuss when or when not it is good. Clearly when certain types of inflamitory remarks are made it is good to remove. I am always -- and I am sure the mods are -- willing to discuss and figure out where things should or should not need moderation . Group discussion is welcome if it is constructive

And were exactly is VJ without mods? Personally I think it was better around here before posts started magically dissappearing. The main basis for VJ is for supporting people through visa and AOS application, and if you look at those forums they execute extremely well. I don't know how experienced the current mods are at their jobs, but I can't help but feel that the mod power has gone to the heads of some of our new mods and its spoiling things around here.

This is of course IMHO, but I still believe the correct way to deal with a bad thread is to lock it.

This definitely needs to be discussed!

I still struggle what to see what was so controversial about the original thread (where everyone was universally sympathetic) from yesterday until this:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=999240


I don't see any "rubbing salt in wounds" from Bex posts. I think the "outrageous behavoir" began there. I see NO ONE taking any kind of satisfaction from the OP's predicament.

and it was allowed to continue & escalate instead of a mod jumping in & saying chill. It is a public message board, if you ask someone to bow out, you better believe you're going to get flak. Hence the reason many of us, myself included, choose not to air our dirty laundry in public.

I've never had one of my posts before be turned "invisible" before. Even after second thoughts, and third, and fourth, I stand by what I said. I find it rather ironic that H_A's acting all hurt and bothered given the treatment that some of us (myself personally) have suffered through by her hand while she's been on VJ. She of all people should know not everyone's going to like you or have something sweet to say. Normally in those situations, I bite my tongue, but as I mentioned in this case, I stand by what I said. If I have violated TOS in some way, that's another issue but I think as Robinklake pointed out, if you look in the post history between me and H_A you would find that's a 2 way street.

It is certainly fair if we discuss where people think things should or should not be moderated. I know my ears are wide open as well as the mods. We want what is best for the community and feedback is not only valuable but critical!

True. And I'd like to know why last week a whole thread was made invisible & locked. Why? Why not keep it up so others can see how it went? I've never seen another one invisible except for an AW thread...

Also, making threads invisible is waaaaaaay Big Brother.

I've been modding for roughly 5 years on other sites, so I am not unexperienced. I will "invisiblise" a post when I think that something can still be gained by leaving a thread unlocked. I will also "invisiblise" a post when I feel it is inflammatory.

I assure you that being a mod here has not gone to my head, nor has it with Yodrak or Lal. VJ is a busy site, there is alot to take in AND do here.

Some posts are invisible so looking back in time at old things may make is difficult -- you wont see the things that were removed.

Tell me then mags, what was gained by not locking that thread and making posts invisible. Did things improve after you magicked away peoples posts? Or did it continue to go downhill?

This is just my opinion, but without mods, you'd report an issue and it wouldn't be addressed until hours later (which was often too late). At least now, you can almost bet that one of the three mods will be online at any given time and PM them for something to be looked at.

Sometimes all that is needed is a 'nudge' in the thread from one of them - much better than a thread escalating to the point of no return before it gets reviewed.

Aside from the fact that a board of this size with no member mods (even if all they ever did was to say 'please tone it down') is a train wreck.

There are always going to be examples where you don't agree with a moderator's decision. And perhaps this incident will be something for them to learn from. Even at that, they're never going to be perfect.

Edited to say : I personally disagreed with the decision to 'invisiblize' ( that word!) the 'split' thread earlier in the week, so I PMd a mod and said so. Maybe my comments will be in their mind the next time they consider doing the same thing.

EXACTLY why they should not be made invisible. It becomes a one sided argument.

I agree on all counts.

Maybe we should do a poll. I think locking a thread should be a very last resort. Discussions can continue civilly if certain posts are removed.

I'm speaking generally here, as I also do understand the whole pot/kettle thing with this particular situation.

I think the mods here are great. I think if there can be benefit from this thread it is that every community is different and that we are welcome to tweaking things based on feedback. I am sure everyone can agree that "stemming" a problem before it explodes is better than fixing the mess afterwards. The right way to do that is always multifaceted. Suggestions are welcome. I know that I have learned a lot from the great feedback of our members and I plan to continue learning my whole life. If you think you have a suggestion on how to do things better in your view let us know!

As I mentioned in my previous posts, sometimes there is valuable information to still be gained by leaving the thread open. By removing some posts you take out the inflammatory element and the thread can continue on topic.

I don't disagree with you, and the behavior was dealt with at the time.






Just a correction - I did request people stop bickering.




I believe I already explained why the thread was made invisible. I locked the thread when it was out of control, and left it visible for an hour to allow the "dust to settle" and so members could see it was a closed topic. It served no purpose other than to show continued bickering.

A "please tone it down of I'm going to lock this thread" works wonders in my experience. Deleting posts leads to people getting angry and the thread descending into chaos. At least, this is my experience.

I agree and I want to thank the mods for the help that they do give. It will not be perfect but without them it would certainly be less good. As it was said if it were just me I sometimes have huge delays in addressing things -- often after the tipping point when things have exploded.

That said I think suggestions are a good thing always .

Agreed. But I'd still rather have someone around who can say that with some authority than have Joe Q Member say it and be ridiculed for suggesting it.

I do that aswell, as do the other mods here. Sometimes though a post is just too nasty or inflammatory to leave visible. You can't warn someone if they have already made the post!

A member doing something similar tends to start an argument with others, in my experience.