I just read the thread, i was away from my desk so long i missed it. HA was out of line, weather her husband left her or not, ppl were there supporting her, no one gave one harsh word to her. However she was doing the flaming that I saw, since yea some posts were put invisible. Becca, Kez and Dev were only being supportive, however HA didnt want their support i guess and lashed out at them. And she did break TOC's, weather we are going thru a hard time or not, TOC's should apply for the person hurting and for the ppl who are supporting, there should be no exceptions.

An hour & half later, which as we know, is often too late in controversial threads.....



Then by those standards, this thread should have been locked down. It doesn;t make any sense. There has been one other post in
my experience that was hidden. That seems unfair.

Yes, and this is what mods are for. I guess my priorities are opposite to some of the mods here. I consider deleting a post to be a last resort which would only be invoked if the presence of that post continued to cause problems even after a thread was locked. For example a post containing hate speech, racism, illegal material etc.

She was warned and clearly lets say for example if sometime later today she broke the TOS she would get moderated. I personally think a littlle slack was warranted at the time given her situation however from now on since the "warning is out" there is no slack left to give.

Absolutely.

I'm going to try to present how I think H_A read the posts in question WITHOUT making it seem like I'm attacking anyone. It's my sincere desire NOT to attack anyone, but rather to highlight where I think the breakdown occured (and yes, when it occured, I read the post like I think H_A did, I'm not going to pretend like I wasn't there for that):

The part that made H_A react strongly to rebeccajo came after rebeccajo agreed with another member's post that attempted to argue that there are two sides to every story (ie: we should give H_A's hubby the benefit of the doubt:



I think H_A is far from ready to vent about two-sides of the story as she's dealing with her pain from her side of the story. So I think she was probably smarting from the comment that rebeccajo was replying to (indirectly) even more than rebeccajo's comment. But where H_A became more angry was from the idea that her anger itself was somehow unwarranted or should be moderated. I think she was bothered by the notion that saying "hang 'em high" or whatever about the guy who just left her was "feeding HA's anger." And because she was so angry and hurting, she read the last sentence as a slight.

Rebeccajo's position is clearly that she did not mean it as a slight - she meant it to try to preserve peace and because she felt it was the right advice to give (not trying to put words in your mouth or intent in your mind rebeccajo, but this is what I gather you meant to do from your and other people's comment).

Because there is a lengthy history between H_A, RJ, and between a bunch of us here, we all reacted in very short order, applying the meaning we were predisposed to apply and take the sides we were predisposed to apply. We all got protective of our friends, and a sh*t storm began.

I hope you'll all believe me when I say that I've written all this not to say "there for RJ is wrong and H_A is right," nor to say "H_A is wrong and RJ is right," but rather to say that I think THE WHOLE COMMUNITY would be better if we all slowed the hell down and actually read what was on the page a few times and tried to see how another party could take things in the wrong way. ESPECIALLY if we consider the party's state of mind at that time.

I'm not sure we can really get past perceived or real insults, slights, hurts, and misunderstandings at this point. But at the very least, perhaps now we can decide to hold our hands every once in awhile and just let it go.

I completely understand where you're coming from.

How about this everyone. Lets focus on the future and on suggestions for what you think is "fair" in your opinion given various situations. A constructive discussion on this will be valuable. I am sure that we can come up with some good suggestions to "meld" into the moderation style .

I agree, but i also think HA took this opportunity to flame at becca and kez. It is a horrible situation she is going thru, however, now everyone will be cautious when supporting someone in a situation like thing bc no matter what, theres always some kind of war in the thread.

As far as I've seen, VJ has always had its fair share of posters who feel that all threads are about them. And if they're not, they find a way to make it so. The "Look at me, I'm being outrageous again!" crowd. Personally I get enough drama from real life to go look for it in a virtual world. I don't know how you moderate for those people. Ignore 'em, I s'pose.

I like the mods. They have cool hats.

agreed

um, and me who was the most viciously attacked. Yet that inflammatory post was allowed to stay up!!!

That inconsistency is just wrong.

I agree, sorry i left you out, dont spank me

My only suggestion is that mods should think twice before deleting a post. As they say in Spider-man, "With great power come great responsibility". Mod power cannot be underestimated in this environment, you guys are basically gods to us mere mortals, and when the gods get angry and smite our posts, it makes us feel bad. Make us feel bad and we'll get angry and stop believing in you, and that will make our lives less contented. Treat us well and we will offer up our devotion and praise to our fair and kind mods.

I think I took that metaphor too far.

Going forward, I'd like to see:

- invisibility as last result. It is big brother & unneccessary unless racist, threatening, etc.
- warnings to chill out
- consistency in which posts get censored
- less bias

-If a threadmust be name changed, say why. This thread had no business being renamed, or moved.

I do appreciate your work, mods!

Quit your whining will ya? By the way, there is no such thing as censorship on a messageboard. You don't have the right to freedom of speech on a messageboard to begin with. Cry me a river...

good points....

As I was one of the first to offer H_A my thoughts when she first posted what had happened I was not prepared for her attack on me later in the thread....

I just think if the mods are going to remove posts then the same rules should apply to all posts not just some...

But over all I think they do a good job and I thank them for their support..

Kez

What are you talking about? Just because the Constitution doesn't cover VJ, doesn't mean that deleting posts isn't censorship.

So now you're FOR "censorship" as long as you approve of the censorship in question?

Now where are those mods - TOS violation anyone?

What do you mean what am I talking about? I made it clear as day. Anyways, it's my opinion (based on fact). Please don't "censor" it. lol

Not at all. I understood it. OK, I'm to get the sacrificial goat, right?

PS. Dr LHA also has a cool hat. Don't want it thought I'm choosing favourites here.

Based on what fact? Look up censorship in the dictionary. Yes, VJ has every right to censor posts, but that doesn't mean it isn't censorship.

Also your pointless and inflammatory post adds nothing to this discussion. Mods!!!

There is no such TOS violation whatsoever. You don't scare me devilette. Play your games. I said what you needed to be told and now I can run along to another thread.

You just got told.

guys - Ewok is asking for suggestions on how best to implement the modding tools. Refrain from attacking member's suggestions!

You've come in here, insulted me and mocked my signature, Im quite sure that's a violation of TOS.

I'm always happy to explain a decision I have made. PM me though rather than attack a decision in public; that only brings further ammunition for arguments and there is no point to that. If I am wrong I'll change it. If I'm unsure I'll ask another Mod to check it too. I'm not too proud to ask for help or advice if it is needed.

Lal, Yodrak and I put in alot of time here for what is, mostly, a thankless task. But we do it because we love VJ and we want to rid it of situations like the ones the UK forum has been experiencing lately.

I know that we are ALWAYS open to questions, suggestions and ideas. ALWAYS assume that we will listen, because we will. We are here for the members of VJ, not for our health or blood pressure!

It's not censorship when you don't have the right to say what you want in the first place. You prove it with your last sentence. Even though I did nothing wrong. And I'll repeat what someone else said on the first page of this thread: The OP was inflammatory...along with being pointless.

ok this is not a TOS violation but lets not argue please. Lets keep this constructive please.

I guess I just don't understand what the big deal is about a censored post, really.

I didn't insult you. Where did I insult you? As for your signature, I don't see a rule that says I can't use yours and adapt it for my own purpose. By the way, who made you a mod to say the things you said IN your signature?




LOL I saw your avatar and could only think...."did I do that?"

TO EVERYONE: Stay on topic and lets make this a constructive conversation. If you want a side bar take it to PM please. No attcking each other, no digging up the past. This post was doing great and getting some constructive new ideas so lets keep it on topic please .

Ok Ewok, no problem. I just wanted to make a point that now she was for censorship. I made my point though...nothing much left to say. Good job.

Watch it, I've got my hat on!!

Censorship has nothing to do with if you had the right to say something in the first place. If you post something, and someone removes it, its censorship. Plain and simple. You don't seem to understand this, and appear to be mixing up censorship with "The right to Free Speech". Nobody has the right to free speech here, as anything can be censored.

Seriously, this is what I'm talking about. The ADMIN & mods are in this topic, yet Joe has been allowed to go on & on & insult?

I would have said the same thing before it happened to me! I just don't think it's fair that in the past, one thread always sticks out in my mind-the one where I told everyone what happened at our interview and instead of getting support literally it was like a gang attack-and other more recent situations where people are getting away with saying things that are downright HATEFUL and cruel, and I can't speak my mind the one time when I decide to do so...it pretty much sucks.

I completely understand what you mean, and by the way, I did think that you had a right to the statement that you made, as I told Ewok. The problem, for me, is consistency, not censorship. I think if deleting posts were a *more* regular occurrence, people would just get used to it.
*runs and hides*

He did three posts in the space of about 5 minutes. We are not superhuman, we do not have the ability to type at 2000 wpm! I'm not sitting here monitoring this thread.

You are all for leaving posts visible. Are you now saying that you feel these posts SHOULD be made invisible?

I haven't insulted you. However, the one who said my posts were pointless and inflammatory insulted me. But I'm not going to make a big deal about it.

If I were going to insult you I'd do it via PM so as not to cause a disturbance. You would then be free to report it. However, I did not insult you. Why would I insult someone who inspired me to make a great signature?

If it became more common, I'd stop posting here.

example on how NOT to act on a thread so a flame war doesnt start i nominate the behavior of JoeCanuk

how do we know it doesn't happen more often?? maybe it does and we just don't notice...

I have seen in several threads lately people tattling saying things like "well let's just see what Ewok has to say about this.." or yelling for the Mods like they are going to run to be there instantly, etc. Just report something or contact a Mod if you think it goes against the TOS. They move as fast as they can on something I'm sure.

And if you are in the process of attacking someone back, don't think the mods will only support your side. It goes both ways. I'm not even just referring to this situation but recently in other situations too. It's like "I'm reporting you, Stupid, for calling me dumb!"

I don't have any suggestions at the moment about the moderating. I think they are doing a good job. I'm sure they will figure out some ways to do things better, it's a learning process.

Capn replied twice about it during that time, yet nothing has happened.

Exactly!

It has everything to do with it. If you don't have the right to freedom of speech, then you are not being censored. If you're in the military and you are not allowed to tell the enemy your nation's secrets are you going to say that's censorship? If you post something and someone removes it, that is not censorship because a) you are a guest and you do not have the right to just say whatever you want and the mods feel it broke the rules. Ergo, that is not censorship. You're right, nobody has the right to free speech here (I've been saying that), therefore, nothing is censored.

Thanks, and I think you're probably right. We would get used to it. Only thing I would like to see is that policy to be applied equally and fairly. I feel like it will be difficult to make that happen.