I have to say, devilette, I agree with this post entirely!

I stumbled across this, I do not think I have previously crossed swords with anybody invloved.

I went and looked at the thread, it looked very tame, the OP was the one geting emotonal it seemed to me.

I also went back and looked at her previous posts, just to get a flavour. All I can say is that she is hardly in a position to complain about a brusque approach anyway.

When it comes down to it if you want to get personal on an open board, then you live of die with the consequences.

And what did he say? He said there was no TOS violation and he asked us ALL to keep it constructive. He was talking to you too.

That's not what I asked you, D. I asked you about your opinion regarding the posts and making them invisible.

Sigh. No it doesn't. You're reading meaning into the word censorship that doesn't exist. If you don't see that, then fair enough I tried to explain it to you.

Well this was pointless. Newsflash: the war was already going on. All I did was come in and say what devilette needed to be told. She then went on to lie about me and ignore the mods.

Try not to get so personal next time m'kay.



Sigh. And I tried to explain it to you. We just disagree. That is allowed you know.

No more warnings to stay on topic please. I do not use the invisible button much but this will be one of those cases -- thanks.

I agree it should be applied equally. I think though that while VJ is a great place, only recently is there more mods added to be able to tackle several issues at once. I think if your situation happened these days, there would have been a different outcome b/c there is more mod interaction.

Take it to PM. On topic now. No final comments. Please pretend you read this -- thank you .

that is what I wanted to say... things are a bit different these days, in reference to moderation...

I replied to that part of your post. I'm for moderation (get your hat out), not invisbility. Or you could split this thread.

No pretending about it. I read it.

I know! No one was more surprised than me!!!!! Maybe we should take this opportunity to kiss and make up!

I agree to a certain extent. Except that one of our current mods was part of that particular bandwagon, but you guys are right-that was a long time ago. Much has changed.

Why don't you poll whether people prefer locking or, um, "invisiblizing"? I personally prefer locking so I can see what happened. Flame wars can always be stopped with a lock, but posts disappearing disturbs normal conversation and leads to resentment no matter how accustomed people get to it.

Actually what I have never understood is then need to keep forums conflict-free. Everyone is an adult, but many adults are really immature, and most of us act in a less-than-becoming fashion once in awhile, and there are bound to be flamewars now and again. If they're not allowed to dominate a board, I see no issue. So, I can see the value in locking things, but making posts invisible to AVOID a conflict that hasn't occurred yet fails to give people the benefit of the doubt and assume they just might be civil.

Let's get back on topic.



Especially when you can just put someone on ignore eh?

My apologies.

Thanks for the clarification.

you are 100000000000% correct

Good points Alex. Conversely one might think an inflammatory remark could disrupt the natural flow of conversation as well. Likewise when conflict is occurring, one side might see the mod reaction as deficient (as Dev pointed out I suggested people to stop bickering a half an hour into it.) Some people may think a 1/2 an hour is too heavy handed, some not soon enough. Point is, no one will be 100% happy with the decisions made, but we aim to please and keep the boards as positive as possible.

Keep the suggestions coming!

Wow. I noticed that my post offering my sympathy to H_A was removed. My post was genuine as was my sympathy for her and her situation and there was nothing at all to suggest that I was trying to inflame the situation further. So, remind me how my post was inflammatory?

This one?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=998178

Obtain a hat, Laura. Works wonders.

Yup. My sincere apologies Mags. Not trying to start anything...really. I didn't look beyond the first page of posts. My bad.

THAT is up to charles he is the hat supplier!

You just had me puzzled is all, I remembered your post and thinking that there was no reason for it being removed!




Actually, mawilson gave me the hat. Charles pimped it up for me!

I had to save that cat pic to my computer.

Being fair does not always mean treating all equally, sometimes being fair is balancing out the situation in front of you. I can see Mags point about giving HA a little leeway in this particular situation. HA has said things to me that were not pleasant. In those threads, I would expect Mags or the Mods to treat us equally. I think Mags made a tough but fair judgement in this specific case.

Wow.

A lot of stuff happens when you are out trying to keep your real estate deal from falling apart plus trying to land a new job on the same day.

I think Y, mags and lal are doing a pretty decent job of the thankless task they've been asked to do. Moderating this community has got to be a lot like herding cats. It'd be unfair to personally criticize any of them given the rowdy bunch of hooligans that comprise VJ.

But I guess it doesn't hurt to ask the hooligans what we think of the system, now that it's in place.

I'm not for making posts invisible. Or for splitting posts out of threads. Both are unnatural to the way real life conversation and learning occur. So that's my take on that part of moderation.

Mods moving around as invisible - what's wrong with that? Didn't your mother do that to you? Did it kill you? Or did it keep you from acting like a little curtain climber? I'm using the analogy of a child because that's the kind of behavior (IMO) that is causing problems in this community - both in the past and in the present.

We are supposed to be adults here. Yeah, a lot of the people on this board are wired up because they are separated from their SO or caught up in some other bureaucratic paperwork snafu. Guess what? SO WHAT! That's life folks. We are here to help you through it, but we aren't here to wipe your nose over it. We can support each other and love each other without enabling each other on a bad immigration day. That means I'm not going to sit here and help somebody feel better about themselves on their bad day at the expense of others. If you are acting like a bratty potty child, and generally spoiling the learning atmosphere of this community by asking over and over again for your cookie, you aren't getting my sympathy. You might still get my love, but you'll get it with a reminder to grow up and put your big-people pants on.

Sooooooooooooooooo, why the ramble? Because IMO moderation around here should be more about dealing with adults as children when they are acting like it. If they don't want to be big people and take responsibility for the words flying out of their mouths, then they need to be given a timeout, or they need to be grounded, or they need expelled.

I'd rather see the schoolyard bullies dealt with as the immature troublemakers they are, than see censorship or re-direction of the conversation of mature adults.

My 2 cents. Take it or leave it. Have a lovely day. Elvis has left the building.

I say jsut show them for the bullies they are and they will stop getting the responses that feed them.

Then they will find another site that will allow them to roam and instigate.

In other words, lock the thread, but keep it visible for all to see just what kind if idiot they are

"I'd rather see the schoolyard bullies dealt with as the immature troublemakers they are, than see censorship or re-direction of the conversation of mature adults."

I agree with much of your post. However, I wanted to comment on your statement that I quoted. Too often on message boards roles are mixed up. The new person is the school yard bully and the person who has been around for a while is the 'mature adult'. Whether or not that is even the case, that is the way it is perceived. There has to be a standard for deciding who are mature adults and who are schoolyard bullies.

My 2 cents as to moderation.

It is an adult board and if you post for advice or just a personal problem you cannot expect everyone to reply the way you might like. Sometimes a good kick up the rear end is as useful as a bucket load of sympathy and moderation should bear that in mind. If you post in public for all to see you must accept all opinions posted in reply.

It should also bear in mind the style of the poster on the receiving end. In this instance the person on the receiving end posts in a somewhat blunt manner and says what they feel. Good for them I like that style I do the same but I appreciate comments direct back in the same style if constructive even if critical, it should make you think. If you dish it out you have to take it and that isn't a cause for moderation.

On a board I help moderate no one moderator can remove, delete or block a post it takes two and gives greater consistency and stops spur of the moment action. Rarely is a post treated in such a manner.

Sometimes a good kick up the rear end is as useful as a bucket load of sympathy and moderation should bear that in mind. If you post in public for all to see you must accept all opinions posted in reply.

I agree. I wonder why I'm not allowed to be that one giving the "kick up the rear end" though. lol

lol always remember they can make you invisible too

now why did i just now find this thread?

that's gotta be a typo

fixed

lmao! good catch

Have our lives become so sad an empty we are debating this tripe? Surely I am not the only person rolling my eyes and thinking everyone needs to GROW THE HECK UP!

I have worked as a moderator as well as other duties for over 7 years on a site (professionally not volunteer) and you know what we tell people who cry about moderation/censorship etc - This is a privately owned forum, not governed by the US Constitution, as with any social club, you can adhere to the rules, or you can move on, or risk account termination. No one is nailing you to the floor and telling you you must stay. I'd consider yourselves very lucky the owner is even concerned with your input and ideas because I know how other businesses deal with it. Sorry for my very direct, real world response. I do have a heart

Do I like censorship? No. Do I think it applies to this forum? No. There is a host of things you agreed to when you signed up for your account, perhaps you should have read it carefully.

Anyway, stop being so stroppy and start being happy! YEESH PEOPLE!

i'll get right on it. incoming pm about color etc.


actually that's a different hat than the one mawilson used

now that i'm all caught up.....i'd much rather see posts edited - removing the content that violates tos rather than them made invisible, for the following reasons:
- if the entire post is invisible, no one knows anything was done and even the poster may miss something of theirs being made invisible, so how would they know they did something wrong?
- the "edited due to tos violation" reinforces to all that mods are out there.....(cues x-files soundtrack)

Mags is an administrator on my message board and a co-administrator on another message board. She hasn't suddenly become a (limited) Mod and gone power mad. I've only seen that happen to one or two "Organizers" here.....

edited

suggestions were asked for Platy.

Sorry.... I got through most of the first page and all I saw was "Me! Me! Me!" type stuff, and it really got to me.

charlesandnessa,

Now that things have calmed down I feel that I can post a few thoughts. Not picking on you, but you provide a nice opening.

With regard to invisibility, the 3 moderators can make a post invisible or we can delete a post (I think - the option is there but I haven't tried it). I have used the invisibility option on ocassion because it can be reversed should circumstances warrant. But we do not have the ability to edit a post. Maybe Captaine Ewok does, but we 3 moderators do not. So editing is not an option.

As to making posts invisible v. closing the thread I prefer to be flexible and will judge each thread on the situation as I see it in that thread. I might make a post or several that I consider to be really 'over the top' invisible if I think that a thread might be salvagable, I might merely post a caution, or I might close the thread if I think it is not salvagable. I've done all three.

Yodrak

Yes I agree that editing out portions and leaving the "edited by" plus "reason why" is ideal however due to privacy reasons I did not enable that on the mod accounts (also because once it is deleted the evidence is gone forever) -- so this said, the mods are not to be blamed on that (blame me ).

One possible thing would be to see if we can make a post invisible but have a place holder automatically inserted where the post was that says (post has been removed for "reason to be input by mod"). This would show that something was made invisible (and could be restored later) but also tell people why it was done so there is no mystery. It would also re-enforce the moderation having occurred and provide feedback to people to calm down or stop the objectionable activity.

All that said, this does not exist and would require a custom modification to the forums software. I am probably skilled enough to code this however before I even start I would want to get some feedback on this.

That is actually a really good option and one I would be happy to use if you were able to implement it with few problems.

*removes foot from mouth*

Sorry, Charles! Thank you for my hat!

Why can't people just be suspended for acting like turds?

In real life there's no magic eraser that takes away the stupid stuff we do. Editing and removing stuff might take away the inflammatory talk, but hey - that's what the person did and said and it should be clear to all those out there what they did or said that warranted a suspension.

Captain Ewok,

I personally would not want the ability to do something that cannot be un-done. It can be difficult to make a good edit, what should be edited out and what should not is subjective (this whole thread is an excellent example of subjective opinion), and mistakes (unintentional deletion of the wrong thing with the jerk of the mouse) are easy to make.

I would not use the feature if it were available, unless I could abort or retrieve. I'll stick with the reversable invisibility, the placeholder with explanation being a good addition.

Yodrak