Hi everyone. So I found out that our case was forwarded to Moscow on Monday. My fiance's co-sponsor is going out of the country for some time so I had to get the I-134 from him now, is it too early date wise? I do have another question though: He doesn't yet have the 2006 tax returns, we have copies of his 1040's from 2004 and 2005. And his accountant wrote a letter saying that he had filed for an extension because his income increased by 3,000 for 2006 (that deadline is October) He is a self-employed writer. It was written on her letterhead. Does anyone know if this will be enough? Also, are the copies of the 1040 enough? And, while I am asking questions, since I live in Poland and don't work (officially) at the moment, do I need to fill our the I-134, too? Sorry for all the questions...I feel a little like this with all this I-134 stuff Thanks for any advice, in advance. Milena.

Based on personal experience you should be fine. I left for Russia in June of 2004, 5 days before my NOA2 even arrived, and was carrying the I-134 in hand, and it was just fine by the time the interview came around in September.

Because I do not work for the embassy nor am I the interviewing officer, I can not tell you for certain and neither can anyone else. The easiest way to meet the "avoid public charge" issue of the INA, is to have your most recent tax return, I-134, and W2. Technically the 2005 is the most recent for the tax payer in question, so I guess it should work. But that is not the only way. Others do it through assets and bank accounts to demonstrate income.

All we did was reprint the vital pages of the 1040 and just signed them again. Apparently that works. If your co-sponsor is using an accountant hopefully he or she provides your co-sponsor with a digital pdf file, but a copy works as well.

Yes, because you are the primary sponsor. You are still "promising" to sponsor, and the co-sponsor is only their for INA purposes and as your backup in case you fail to sponsor. Although the I-134 is not legally binding, so this is all silly anyway.

Thanks for the answers Satelite, we really appreciate it. If 2006, isn't available in time for the interview, we will include 2003 along with the letter stating that he filed for an extension in 2006, hopefully that will be ok, as you said, it all depends on the interviewing officer. We are using JUST form 1040, as evidence of income.

Maybe you also know the answer to this question, when looking at the poverty lines, the number of people in the household is counted using people who are just FULLY dependent on my co-sponsor? Or partially dependent as well?

Thanks again.

-Milena.

You look like you should be just fine. What they really want to see is that you've got access to funds once you get here. If you're able-bodied and can work legally, that should translate to you being able to take care of yourself and your husband, with your co-sponsor footing the bill if something were to go wrong where you were unable to work.

1040s prove income, so there should be no problem using JUST 1040s.

The only worry I would have in your case is you are not currently employed in the U.S., and from their point of view, it looks like you're both going to show up to America with no money and no jobs. You might want to show them proof of having access to some money somewhere or a letter of "intent to hire" from an employer where you intend to immigrate. If your co-sponsor exceeds the poverty level (for two people) there's technically nothing to worry about. If I were you though, I'd show some money somewhere. Your money in Poland (that you're not making right now.... you just happened to have money saved when you went there!) and maybe even some of his money that you guys could count in a joint bank account back Stateside or something to that effect. Just something to show USCIS that you're not going to show up at your POE with nothing in your pockets and nowhere to go. Sure, your co-sponsor provides assurance that they're going to take care of you, but I know if I were a C/O and someone had a co-sponsor that was a writer.... I wouldn't be to keen on them being "guaranteed" to be taken care of financially.

Once again, not saying that you have anything to worry about, just saying that when you submit the I-134 and other documents, you're painting a picture for them. There's a certain picture they want to see. Let them see it. Doesn't matter if it's paint by number!

I can only add what has happened in Kiev. Kiev delayed the issuance of a visa until the 2006 return could be produced. Again Kiev not Moscow.

Slim,
You make a good point. Better not to risk a denial, and think something up I still have a little time, since they just sent our petition to Moscow on Monday, so I can get some statement of how much is there from my bank in Poland, I don't have a US bank account. And Seryozha can do the same. We have both been saving money for the move. I hadn't thought about it, but I like this idea. When I pictured it from the point of view of the C/O, as you said, it would look much better if we both showed something. My uncle wrote on the I-134 that he would be providing room and board for as long as needed, instead of some sum of money. Do you think Seryozha showing ownership papers for his car are a good idea? We are going to sell it when he leaves, so that is an asset. I think showing a fair amount of money, plus the I-134 from my uncle should be enough to show that he won't become a public charge?

FWAGUY,
I really hope that's NOT true...but I did e-mail the embassy to find out. Hopefully they will write back! Thanks for metioning it, though.

Having more than just 1040s would be prudent. Bank statements and pay stubs, along
with W2s/1099s.



You can file the 2006 return now, and then file an amended one in the future (the form is 1040X.) It needs to be done anyway, so why wait.

To be honest I don't know. But here is how I see it logically:
Based on the I-864 the immigrant legally binding affidavit of support dependent is defined as following:
"Your household size includes yourself and the following individuals, no matter where they live: any spouse, any dependent children under the age of 21, any other dependents listed on your most recent Federal income tax return, all persons being sponsored in this affidavit of support, and any immigrants previously sponsored with a Form I-864 or FormI-864 EZ affidavit of support whom you are still obligated to support."
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-864_110106.pdf
But this is not the I-864.
The I-134 offers no explanation of these terms.
VJ search offers the following answer:
http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12896
http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7757
Claiming only that tax form dependents count.
http://www.immihelp.com/visas/visitor/i134.html states the following:"
"8. Write the names of dependents that you include in your income tax returns. These will usually be your spouse and minor children. If you spouse is not working, you can check 'Wholly Dependent'. If your spouse is working, you can check 'Partially Dependent'. Even if you are sending money to your parents in India every month, and they depend upon the money you send them, do not put them as dependents here."

My logic would be that a partial dependent like a whole dependent takes income from the sponsor. So I agree with the above to use only income tax dependents and the examples to figure out which one is whole or partial. Either one I believe counts increasing household size thus the amount of money needed to meet the povery guideliness threshold.

Thanks for the input Russ. Actually since it isn't my tax return, there is only so much I can do, as to getting it filed I think I will just include our bank statements, and his 1040s, and W2s if he can send me a pdf with them, but we'll see, I have to talk to him when he gets back from Istanbul.

Thanks everyone for the advice. It seems silly as Satelite said, to go to so much trouble to complete a document that isn't legally binding...but oh well, since we gotta do it. Thanks again!

-Milena

Remember, you're showing that you (or your co-sponsor) can support your immigrant husband. Since you're not even supporting yourself in the U.S. right now, you're going to have to PROVE IT to them that you'll be able to. Your uncle is basically saying that he'll make sure you're not going to be a public charge, but in your case, it's your immigrant husband AND YOU that are immigrating to the U.S. Not only does Uncle Shakespeare have to pay for your husband's stuff, he has to pay for yours as well. From their point of view, you're doubling the co-sponsor's responsibility.

Technically, the burden doesn't fall on your husband to provide evidence that he can support himself (and maybe you too!) in the U.S., so his auto ownership probably isn't that significant. However, like I said before, you're painting that picture that he's not going to become a public charge, and proving that he took care of himself in Russia just fine should also prove that he'll be able to take care of himself in the U.S.

Better that you take any money available and create some sort of paper trail that shows you have access to funds now, (like your bank in Poland, his bank in Russia.... and a letter from both of you that it'll be transferred to your joint bank account, that just happens to be at the same bank as Uncle Shakespeare's, and all other money like that from the sale of his auto and personal property when he departs Russia.) and also a paper from Uncle Shakespeare's bank stating that he's in good standing (able to provide for two immigrants... technically only one) and you and your husband have created a joint account that all your personal monetary holdings will be transferred into upon issuance of a visa.

Make it sound all official and stuff. Basically, it needs to say "I've got some money, he's got some money, and when we're together in the U.S. we're going to put it all together and Uncle has our back just in case."

Get creative! But, also keep in mind you don't have to prove you're rich... only that someone has enough money to exceed the poverty level guidelines.

Thanks Slim. In reality my uncle won't be supporting us, my parents will be sending a little money, plus we have my money and Seryozha's money but we will be staying with my uncle for awhile while are are adjusting. So far the plan that is coming together is this: In addition to everything my uncle is providing the I-134 and relevent evidence. Both Seryozha and I will get statements from our respective banks (What does this need to include, just a print out of how much is in the account, stamped by the bank?) And what does my uncle need from his bank by the way? (what is the name of this document?). Plus we will use the car documents to show that a) he took care of himself in Russia and that he will get another rather large sum of money to add to the funds. And you are suggesting that we write an attachment to the I-134 explaining the situation and saying that we will move all this money to a joint account when we get to the US? If so, should I also mention that my parents will be helping us, too?

I hope I don't seem too dense, but I am very inexperienced with this kind of thing! Thanks again!

-Milena

Unless you can document $125,000 in assets, it probably isn't worth it to go out of your way. You need to show either meeting the income test, or the asset test. No point in proving that you don't meet either one.

As a US citizen, showing you have income over 125% the poverty line is the easiest way. Doesn't matter where in the world that you earned it. (Plenty of US citizens earn their living from foreign sources)

Otherwise, having a cosponsor demonstrate this income is what you need.

I'm not sure what the exact dollar amount is, but it is probably still less than $20,000.

I'm not trying to prove that we don't need a co-sponsor. We have someone who is sponsoring him, he just doesn't have the 2006 tax returns yet, but is above the poverty guidelines, at least 125%, but he is a writer. Slim suggested (as I understand it) that since I am technically unemployed (I don't work in Poland OFFICIALLY) and living abroad that it would help our case to show that at least I have some assets (savings) here in Poland, and that Seryozha has some assets in Russia, and that when we get to the US we will put that money in a joint account. Just so that at the interview, it doesn't look like I am immigrating as well and my uncle is going to take care of both of us. This idea makes sense to me, so that even though the amount is not that large, it would be enough to live for AT LEAST 6 months, if I couldn't find a job.

These are exactly the kind of questions we need on VJ!!! That's why we're here. Remember, if you have a question about something, someone else that's two weeks behind you in the VJ process probably has a similar question. Good that you asked!

OK, as far as the "letter from the bank" all it needs to be is a typed statement to the effect of "Milenka has an account at Bank of Poland, starting date 05.03.05. She has an active account with a 90 day balance of $318/USD. Signed, Slawomir Skrzypek" and then a stamp if they have it. Same for your husband, same for your uncle, and then I would try to get some kind of documentation of a joint account (or at least your account in the U.S.) with some money in it or a new account created specifically for the purpose of collecting your joint assets when you immigrate. (You can have uncle open a new account for you with the bank manager saying "this account was opened by Uncle Shakespeare for his niece and nephew to be used upon their arrival to the U.S.") That doesn't actually prove assets, but it does paint that picture that you're going to have money once you arrive.

I was thinking more about that car he has.... can he take it to a dealer or something like an independant auto appraisal agency (like a used car lot) and have them type a letter (in English) to the effect of "Seryozha's car is worth $10,000/USD"??? He could document proof of the value of the car in this way. He could also write a paper himself saying "my car is worth this much as confirmed by Russian Car Center Moscow and I intend to sell it prior to my departure and transfer the funds to the account opened by my uncle Shakespeare in the U.S."

Just paint that picture!

I strongly disagree with this reasoning. Otherwise all the folks immigrating from Europe and the rest of the 1st world would not need sponsors at all. If you were good at making money in Russia, then more than likely your technique say "stealing" , "bribing" or whatever your skill was will not work well in our system. If you were say a mechanic or electrician, you might even do better. But still adjusting in terms of language, cultural difference, and even in a specific trade all the terminology is different. If I was the CO this argument would not pass muster.

Couldn't agree more! Don't waste your time proving you aren't qualified as a co-sponsor. As long as your uncle qualifies income wise you should be fine.
Likewise, I imagine you weren't paying US taxes on the money you "didn't earn" in Poland This doesn't help your cause as a sponsor either, but also looks bad in front of the IRS.

Sure, it matters not what the beneficiary does back home and how successful they are at it. However, it's part of the big picture, so if their finances are tight, and Uncle only barely exceeds the minimum, they could look at the "big picture" of finances for the sponsor, co-sponsor, and even the beneficiary and say, "well, they're just barely over, but she's got a little money saved up, he's got a little money saved up, and the uncle's going to give them room and board... they should be allright."

Not saying that's how it goes or doesn't go, but that's a much better picture to paint than "hey, I'm unemployed in Poland, my husband's immigrating with his $8,000 from the sale of his car, and we're going to live with my uncle until we both get jobs and get successful. We have love, and love is all you need!"

Love doesn't pay the bills. But, uncle's room and board, plus their money they have saved up does.

As a former US Expat myself, I'm aware of the exclusion on foreign income. (Usually, the first $86,000 you make overseas is exempt from US tax). Also, you get a credit for the money you pay in foreign taxes.

As a US citizen, you are required to report this income, even if no tax is due.

Thanks everyone for the input. Very helpful. Just to clear it up, I was never trying to make myself the sponsor, my uncle was always going to do it. We just had some questions, about what, and how, and that it might help the case to show that both of us have some additional savings. Thanks again.

-Milena

I did also want to reply to this post. My fiance is a programmer, this is a pretty good job, even in Russia, and those languages are universal, but his English his already very good. Also, he never did any "bribing" or "stealing" so he won't have a problem adjusting to the system. That was a little offensive. But your earlier advice was very helpful.

-Milena

He should do fine here. Like I said, in some trades you will do better here. But remember, he has to go to an interview and speak English. It took my father as an Electrical Engineer a few years to get enough American work experience and language skills to finally get a job similar to his Soviet experience.
Don't get offended by the way of life comment about Russia in general. If you live in Russia you pretty much have to "steal, bribe, and other not so ethical / moral things" at one level or another to be "very" successful. This is what the common people in Russia say about how the successful achieved a lot of their success. Starting from the Oligarchs and working your way down. Of course there is always exceptions to every stereotype, but when a PH.D professor makes $100 a month, while a crook running a racket in cars from Japan to Vladivostok is living in a mansion, you know something is wrong.
Russia's "middle" class of professionals which your fiancé as I understand belongs to is a very small percentage of the population.

I guess I took that personally as opposed to talking about Russian life in general, sorry, I have just been sitting in front of the notebook WAY too much recently...
I do agree with you about Russian life in general. It's sad, but true, that there is so much corruption, and that the middle class is so small...Luckily Sergey's English is more than good enough to get through a whole interview in English :)Thanks again for your advice on the I-134, Satelite.

Hopefully that'll be me in about two years or so!

(I'm not going to run cars though.... I'm going to sell Pizza!)

What a great idea! The pizza that is...When you open it, we will definitely come and eat there...I have never been to Vladivostok...

There is pizza here already. The question, will it be similar to my personal favorite - Lou Malnati's from Chicago?

There's pizza everywhere. But, what there's not, is American (New York, Chicago, thick crust, thin crust, deep dish, stuffed) style, i.e. FAT AND TASTY!!! pizza that's served by girls wearing a Hooters type outfit in a sports bar atmosphere that has "American standards" of service, price and taste.

Picture this...

You walk around the corner, and outside there's a nice cafe-style seating area where gorgeous college-age girls wearing unbuttoned softball jerseys (with bikini tops inside) are serving pizza and beer on roller skates and you can hear American classic rock pumping out of the speakers. . You go inside, and there are 32 Samsung (or LG) flat screens showing sports from all over the globe - Soccer, Rugby, Cricket, Auto Racing, Horse Racing.... even the dog show! although I don't know about the spelling bee - and the same girls are serving across a massive bar to several awaiting tables and large semi-private booths. Off to the side, there are several VIP rooms for private parties. In the basement, there's a night club, and upstairs, the girls are all housed for free as part of their pay. They double as night club waitresses/bartenders/dancers/scenery and can do whatever they want after hours. The beer will be cheap, the pizza, chicken wings, and other fried food will be tasty, and the fun will roll on.... 24/7!

I know this is going to be a hard market to get into, (the "buy-in" is probably going to be pretty substantial) but I believe it can be done. It just has to be "sold" to the people there, and I believe, like all people, something marketed as "cool" will catch on anywhere. Also, anything marketed to the primitive man will always make money!

Yes, but this is why I live in America...

I've seen this tried before in many parts of Europe... Do some market research, I'm not sure if the volume exists in Russia to support it. A smaller place might be more feasible.

This is Russia. I don't know if you want to be so high profile.

Few Russians outside of Moscow are going to pay $15 - $25 for a pizza when they make only a few hundred a month. Even fewer people will want a $5 beer. Service will be hard to pull off because you will be hiring Russians who don't understand what that is and will continue to act in the usual Russian uncustomer friendly way.

Besides the huge amount of capital you will need to start the place, get ready to pay off the mob and the government racketeers who keep an eye on how local business are doing. Refuse to pay the cover price and you will find yourself shot dead. Sounds like a movie, but many Russian businessmen know it all too well.

By the way in 2003 we at some place called New York Pizza in Novosibirsk. It pretty much had American pizza at Russian prices. It had the Elvis theme decorations. But no ladies on roller skates or plasma TVs.

You can probably sell a $5 beer, assuming it is at least two liters in volume. As for the staff - this is Russia. The nicer restaurants often have casinos and strippers, just because.

The (current) nicest place in town here charges 50 rubles ($2) for a 1/2 liter Carlesburg or Tuborg (made in Russia). This is too pricey for most locals, the place is dominated by foriegners. In the lounge there, the staff outnumber the customers at all times (5 piece band, sound guy, 2 bartenders, 4 waitresses, 2 hosts, and a hookah-specialist). This is for 11 tables.



What I said about not looking too big or successful. You will be paying for security 24/7. (This is Russia, you need to be open 24/7). You'll need a driver/bodyguard.

Mob and government? Aren't they mostly the same thing now?

Expect "fire code" problems, etc.. When IKEA tried to open outside Moscow, an undisclosed "fire code" violation prevented them from opening for months. As soon as you are ready to open, expect to pay the big money. If you start making money, remember that will be a temporary situation - eventually there will be a "tax" problem.

It is probably safer to do this being the silent partner of an established (Russian) investor. Worst you can probably lose then is money.

Still only dreaming about the idea, but you guys are spot-on with some of the pros/cons floating through my head.

I'm going to set up shop in Vladivostok which has a high volume of foreigners, so I should be able to get by with a "big dollar" set up, or even a smaller, local spot.

Although you guys are familiar with the "bad side" of business in foreign places, you're missing the "good side" of the business as well. Some of the cons (paying off the mafia) are actually pros. There's no need to worry about a "tax problem" when my mafia guy is the tax collector!

You want to call it a business deduction then
It's still a tax in my book no matter how you call it. And "the power to tax involves the power to destroy."
McCulloch v. Maryland, 17 U.S. 316 (1819)
And Russians are good at destroying.

Technically, US Corporations are prohibited by law from bribing foreign government officials. You will violate this law quickly in Russia. Working at an oil company, 1/2 of their employee handbook is about this. Not sure how the US looks at it when the money is taken, and not just asked for.

Politics change quickly here. When "your guy" falls out of favor, the next guy will be looking for "back taxes." And remember, Russian courts have an impressive 99.5% conviction rate.

Bottom line for business in Russia.... when in Rome! (Or, when in Vladivostok....)