well, where do i start.....friday, my wife said she was going to a chiropractor at noon...she was in an auto accedent march 30th....she never came home until the next day at noon with the police to remove her things...WOW !!!..........i had paid for my wife to go back to russia for three weeks (2nd 3 wk trip in 12 months) i stayed at home with her kids and catered to their every need....whe she arrived back on may 3rd, i went out and bought her a new car, the last car was destroyed in the accedent...that was 2 1/2 wks ago....she began speaking on the phone in russian very often, and meeting her russian girlfriends...i heard her speaking to a man in russian on the phone, and she said it was a friends boyfriend who needed advice....i am not one to be jealous, so i let it go....whe she came back from russia, she said she had to go to the russian embassy for a transfer of property...that appt is today.

bottom line, we never had any problems or arguments, other than normal disagreements in marriage...i don't know if she has received her green card...she was on fbi name check...but i was always at work when the mail arrived at the house...i tend to think i was duped.....i wish all good luck...it has been a tough long weekend, and i know she has received help because she has no job....., as far as money, she has helped herself to my wallet daily for 1 1/2 yrs...don't let my sad story influence your lives...i truely wish all of you love and happiness......

I am so sorry things not going well in your life .

I'm so so sorry

how sad for you, i'm sorry for your troubles

That is a horrible thing she has done... I feel for you.

All GCG's should be immediately deported and blacklisted for life! or taken out and shot (just kidding). Take your pick.

Sorry to hear about your troubles, hope life will look up soon

Sorry to hear about your situation. All I can say is this too will pass, and things will get better.

So sorry to hear. Best of luck in moving on.

My condolences, I am very sorry to hear that this happened.

thank you all for your kind thoughts...later today i recieved a visit from the police with a court date to reply about domestic violence...now i know i have been duped...and it is her way to maybe a fast track green card...we have been in fbi namecheck for 1 yr...what a nightmare...this is the closest thing to rape that i can even imagine....... my hope is that the court system is just, and i am not raped again for the second time....

I am very sorry to hear about your situation! I hope you will get justice in court...Good luck!

This is certainly sad to hear and makes you wonder sometimes what's going on in our mate's mind.
Time usually heals our wounds....then we can gather it all back together again and move on in life.

bruc

Well I am sorry to hear that but believe me I have heard worse stories. I will strongly urge you to do something. If you don't it could be a big mistake. There is a guy named Maxx who has been through the same and can give you some advice that may make a big difference. He is a really great guy and he works with men all over the country going through what you have just started with. Actually it would have been better sooner but better now than later.

The easist way I can tell you to reach him is to go to www.ruadventures.com and register and pm him. Do it as soon as you can. Maxx is the guy. You may see a Maxxim there, that is not the right guy. Take my word for it and do it.

thanks turbo guy...i will try to find him....i had no clue that this was going to happen.....it was a total surprise and shock....one day i am at the mall buying them clothes and cosmetics, the next day they leave....now i understand it clearly now...i don't feel anything other than being the fool......

Well I am sorry to hear that but believe me I have heard worse stories. I will strongly urge you to do something. If you don't it could be a big mistake. There is a guy named Maxx who has been through the same and can give you some advice that may make a big difference. He is a really great guy and he works with men all over the country going through what you have just started with. Actually it would have been better sooner but better now than later.

The easist way I can tell you to reach him is to go to www.ruadventures.com and register and pm him. Do it as soon as you can. Maxx is the guy. You may see a Maxxim there, that is not the right guy. Take my word for it and do it.
[/quote]


I had a fella say something to me one time....how can you be a fool if you don't know anything foolish is going on behind your back ...you're a fool if you know and don't do anything about it..
I think I would follow tuboguy's suggestion and find Maxx...I've heard the name several times.

bruc

This whole story is very sad, and scary too especially for guys like me who are venturing into a very similar type of marriage with a Russian or Ukrainian woman. I've heard of several stories very similiar to skinsfan's, including from a fairly good friend of mine here in Atlanta. Everything was pretty much normal with their marriage for about 2 years, and then all of a sudden one day he came home and she had left and taken all of her belongings (and some of his) with her. Very little warning signs ahead of time that something like that was about to happen.

I pray that nothing like this happens to myself or anyone else on this forum, and I hope everything works out for the best for skinsfan.

skinfan,

I am so sorry to hear about this. You've been a helpful contributor on this and another board I follow. What to say -- I wish this were not happening to you.

As a Russian speaker I have spoken to these ladies in the US who have "moved on" after their greencard marriage. As I see it now there are two groups of folks, those that pull the VAWA route and those that bite the pillow a little longer and wait for lifting conditions / citizenship.
These ladies come with a well hidden preconceived intent to marry for the green card for either a better life for themselves or their children.
Slim can chime in on all the usual signs of older guy, lack of mutual communication (relationship's can't work if you can't communicate beyond basic speech), etc.
Good luck in avoiding legal trouble, I-864 obligations, and other state divorce procedures.

Wow, that sucks. I am very sorry to hear that I wonder how she intends to prove domestic violence when there wasn't any? Hope she loses.

What percentage of these ladies that meet an American man through a "marriage agency" or online would you say have these evil intentions from the beginning? Do you think it's more then a third? Or maybe as high as 50%? Unfortunately I think it's quite a high percentage.

I'm very sorry for you and the situation she has put you in. I hope that you have a speedy and positive out come.

I think it is even higher, probably 75% if not more. Mostly because, placing yourself on some online agency is stating to the world that (1) you are for sale, (2) you are seeking a better life and a way out of Russia. The whole story about Russian men being drunkards and unsuccessful is not 100% true. The Russian economy (government) is to blame why only 10% are able to live at an American standard of living. So there are successful Russian men. But as I understand these men are hard to get, because there are few of them and a lot of these women who post themselves online probably have a child or two and have gone through a divorce thus making them less attractive to Russian men. Likewise many of these women were unable to reach a high standard of living in Russia through their own abilities for one reason or another.
Similarly few Russian women would jump at the opportunity to marry an unattractive older man who resides in Russia.
(You can test this in the alternative and try to see how many US girls of the same characteristics will far for the older unattractive US man.)
By being from the US or Europe the Russian women are able to justify this otherwise unthinkable relationship.
I do believe that most of these women give the relationship they found online a try, but if it is not what they hoped it would be they return to their original plan of green card and run.
Personally I have been invited to such a family where a beautiful Russian women of 27 married a 55-year-old real estate magnet. At the dinner table she would tell her husband in a sweat voice, "какой ты страшны и большой дурак", and he would respond with, "I love you too honey."
Hopefully my opinion didn't offend anyone, I base it only on the personal conversations I have had with the Russian ladies both in Russia and in the US. This topic and the end result always fascinates me and honestly if you step back away from thee branches and look at the entire forest you will begin to understand why this result is not that surprising in the big scheme of things.

I agree 200%.

And the whole story of the Russian men being drunkards and losers was invented by online dating agencies as some sort of reassurance for American men that these ladies really want to "marry a nice guy", and not just immigrate. I think it's BS, and I too hope I'm not offending anyone.

I'm so sorry! Best of luck!

Not to get off topic, but I am glad that someone finally said that Jewel, since my fiance is a Russian guy. He doesn't even drink at all! I have heard that story too many times...It's very sad what's happened to skinsfan, and to anyone else in the same situation. Milena.

Sometimes the stories are far worse. Many times the man returns to find the house empty and the police there carting him off to jail.

Our DV laws are not very fair. American justice is supposed to be based on presumption of innocence until guilt is prove, with DV it is the other way and since the things supposidly went on behind closed doors it is hard to prove innocence.

Do talk to Maxx. There are steps you should be taking. If you have any problems finding him let me know and I will find him for you.

I agree, but you have to acknowledge that an educated Russian woman in her 30-s is far likelier to find an adequate husband abroad than in Russia. The fact that she posts her profile does not automatically prove that she's a green card opportunist.

Personally I couldn't care less where to live, but I do very much care WITH WHOM to live - and my chances to marry well in my home country are objectively small. 95% of decent men in my age group are either happily married or divorced with kids and not looking to start a new family.

I would tend to agree. I think that there is plenty of anecdotal evidence to back your claim. It will be interesting to see what this whole 'MOB scene' is like in 5 or 10 years. Probably still going strong. Men will probably still be getting scammed. Although I have to believe that as word of month gets out that the pool of men interested in a Russian women will drop. Maybe not...

As many times as I've been to Russia I've only seen one drunk Russian man and he looked as if he had been drunk all of his life. I see more drunks when I'm in Atlanta than over there.
Every Russian man that I've come in contact with has either been very nice or just ignored me .
My community, even though small and in the mountains, has a lot of Russian women and kids here married to more or less us hillbilly's that are college educated and successful in business. I personally know a lot of them and their husbands.
My best Russian wife friend here told me one day that Russian women would rather be married to a Russian man but the good one's are taken and most of the others can't make-up their mind which bed to visit, his wife's or one of his girlfriends....I have no idea about this.
She has also been here for about 7 years and has been a tremendous help in helping me understand my fiance and I value her friendship and advice.
I've heard of only one Russian girl here dumping her husband for another man, I also heard HE is the one that had his priorities in the wrong place not her.
I've asked women in Russia on my trips would they like to find and American man...they all said NO...only a Russian man.
I was in a conversation recently discussing the "mail order bride business" and the concensous was that it's getting more difficult to find a woman from Russia and Ukraine that actually wants to leave their country , family and friends and marry a foreign man.
I feel blessed that I have one that wants to but it took her a year to believe and trust in me that I would love her and her daughter and take very good care of them.
When I read the stories about the wives that hang around long enough to get a green card and feel the hurt in the guy's post, it really saddens me to know that this is a risk all of us have to take...but we took a risk with our first mate's also.

bruc

Only have a couple of seconds here, but quickly....


Go to your local cops right now. Fill out an incident report or written statement of some kind. Sit down with the sergeant or the captain or whoever is in charge there (Sheriff, maybe?) and basically just tell them what's going on and that you want to cover your @$$ when it comes time to go to court.

9 times out of 10, these guys have seen something like this happen before, and will actually do what they can to help you out. If you can get your side of the story on paper with a legal signature "swearing" that it's the truth as told to them, that goes a long way when you go to court and it's just her and her lawyer (and probably her "guy that needed advice") there saying "he did this and he did that." You can counter with a sworn statement as witnessed by a cop that "she said I did this and said I did that, but I never did anything like that.... as a matter of fact, look at all the GOOD STUFF I did for her."

Make sure you cover your @$$ with good hard evidence. She was in a car crash, you bought her a new car. You paid for the chiropractor. You took care of her kids for 6 weeks while she was off chasing strange men. She obviously didn't miss family at home... she couldn't even take her kids with her. Things like this can paint a good picture in a judge's eye when it comes to domestic violence charges. She has to prove you did something, and that's pretty hard to do. It's VERY HARD to do when you've got proof that you've been nothing but an excellent husband/father.

Paint the picture that she's a money-grubbing green card scammer, and chances are, they'll see it too.

Keep us posted... GOOD LUCK!!!


And to everyone else out there..... there are signs. If you start to see them, don't deny you're seeing them. Don't say "I'm not jealous." Don't say "well, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt." DON'T DO THAT!!!! YOU'VE GOT TO COVER YOUR @$$. Do it now! She can love you all day every day, but if/when she changes her mind, you've gotta be ready! Love is great.... but it's got nothing to do with being successful if things go awry. You prepared hard to be together.... you should be as prepared to be apart!

Hey Slim Great advice - the police do want to help. My EX wife (American) called the police and told them I was drunk and she was scared I was crazy. The police noted that I was not visually intoxicated and very calm when they arrived. This helped at the child custody hearing when she was trying not to let me see my daughter. yada yada yada and big bucks later ---.

OP
What really are all the details from this post? The truth shall set you free. If you are really as good as you say you are MAKE sure you get the records. Get the proof! How do you know she was talking to a man in Russian? Why did she need another car? Lot of signs here. We all know love is blind.
It also scares me on reading such stuff. But I had an AMERICAN woman pickup and leave. No GC involved. It still confuses me, all my family and friends. SEE I was married to and AMERICAN GOLD DIGGER. So it’s not just Russian women.
Please keep us posted, you and anyone else it happens to.
Best of luck to you

Exactly the way every woman should state her case, whether online, or in person.

It's fair to want to marry well, to want to find a mate that is suitable to where you are in life and where you want to be, and it should be stated UP FRONT!!!! as to what the intentions are. It's just a fact that everyone wants a certain thing or combination of things in their mate.

It's not always stated, and that's where the problems come from. You must be honest with yourself (about your mate by not ignoring RED FLAGS or warning signs) and with your mate about what you want.

Things always change, so there has to be some flexibility to it too, but for the most part, intentions must be open and honest from the start. (Or, like in my case, so painfully obvious that they don't need to be said aloud because it's too painful to hear. "Honey, after we get your ticket and pay the rent, we have $4 left in the account to buy tea and Ramen with. Welcome to America." And people say she married me for the money...... yeah, right!)

Sometimes I think I'd be better off if I didn't read the VJ forums... this is a time when I should be excited and happy about my fiancee's success at her interview and arrival in the US in the very near future, but instead I feel depressed and worried, mainly from reading sad stories like from Russ & Galina's, Marc & Olga, and now skinsfan.

No, I don't think they're all solely after green cards.

To be honest with you, I have no idea about what it takes to marry well. I always thought my chances to marry anyone anywhere in the world were zero, so I just excluded having a husband and a family from my future plans at one point

it's not just confined to russia, i've read other horror stories. anyone seen marc lately? i've not seen him post in a while but i saw his post about how things went sour.

James there are also success stories. Be excited and enjoy. Only the future will tell if you picked right. I went through three almost breakups with my Russian wife. That was not a green card issue, but a hard headed issue on both our parts. We are learning to cool our heels and life is good.

I have to agree with you to a point.

Everyone approaches life from their own point of view. Obvisouly some here have had experiences that have led them to either be very warry of people or this is just part of their nature. The trick is to live life on your own terms and for me that means trusting people till they give me a reason not to. I am sure some will say that is fine but don't be supprised when all your stuff is out the door and for me that is a chance I am willing to take becuase here is what I think. If you have to constantly test someone or be supicious of them you waste precious time you could be loving them and being happy. If you love them and work to make them happy yes you could be blind sided and taken to the cleaners but ask yourself this, if you are constantly testing someone or suspicious of them dont you think they will feel this and don't you think they will become the person you feared they were. I know if felt like someone didnt trust me or was constantly testing me I would begin to wonder if that person truly loved me and might start looking for a way out.

Of course this is my opinion and realize there is not right or wrong asnwer here just everyone chosing to live their life in their own way.

So don't let anyone (even me) convince you to change how you live your life, listen to all the advice and chose what works for you and then just do it.

Paul and Anna

thanks for all of your kind words...please everyone, don't let my sad story influence your lives...i only want people to pay a little closer attention to any signs..love is blind, and i trusted without question....now i see that i was in love with a mirage, an idea....i have definitely turned the page...i only worry about keeping my good name....this domestic violence thing is a scary issue...but, i know i was a good and loving man that provided well for the family... the judge denied her 1st petition on the 29th of may, for lack of evidence, so hopefully that is a good sign for me....please..for those of you that are in a relationship, or starting one.....don't give up on your dream because of what you read on any forum......again, i thank you all for your kind support !!!

hello all.....i hopefully have some good news...maybe.....if anyone wants to read a story that i posted on the russian meeting house 1 yr ago today under "surprising story"...it documents a situation with a mother and older daughter from the Ukraine, that were recent friends of my wife.....anyway, to make a long story short, they tried to warn me that my wife was here only for a green card....something told me to save her cell number in my phone..

i called her today, and asked if my wife really told her this, and she said..."to be honest, yes"...i asked if she would speak to my lawyer, and she said to give him her telephone number....hopefully she will not get cold feet, and do the right thing....my wife hates her, and has actively black balled her from other fsu women...i heard this conversation in another friend of my wifes home about 2 weeks ago....she spoke in terrible terms about these women....anyway, maybe things will turn more in my direction...... i am also under skinsfan in the other forum for those interested.....

Once again I offer my condolences.

I find it interesting that many people forget that this is not a purely russian/ukraine issue. Many US women(i dont say american because it includes, canada, mexico and south america) will admit that they marry for money, status, opportunity etc. When I was younger I went out once with a girl who told me her only goal was to marry someone and have some children and she admitted she didnt have to love the guy just so that he could provide for her and the children. Suffice to say that was the only time I went out with her.

For every story that ends badly, there are stories that go forward happily. The most important thing is to understand it is not you, if you believe in yourself and love yourself(in the platonic way) then people will be attracted to you. There is a vibe or energy that is emitted when someone trully cares about themselves and other people. Stay positive and know there are a lot of people who can lend support in a difficult time.

You should be excited and happy! You're on the way to being together with your fiancee and making a life together. There's a reason you chose her and she chose you.... stick to it! People have success and people break up. Here and there, it happens every day. What you have to remember is despite what you've heard about "scammers" and the like, you and your fiancee have a unique situation. It's like other people's but it's unique for the two of you. Concentrate on that. Compare and contrast it to others' relationships, but don't base yours strictly on what happens in their's.

Make sure you're honest with yourself if there are warning signs, but, try to be a good husband and a good mate for your fiancee and if she's doing the same..... you should be happy! There's no guarantees for anything, and that's why you have to keep the faith that you and your fiancee "chose correctly."




This is exactly the kind of "evidence" that I was talking about. If you have someone like this "on your side" of the court room, it really helps the judge. If they've already denied a first petition, things are looking like they're in your favor! Have your lawyer follow up with this woman and get a sworn statement from her about the past conversations and see if she's willing to testify for you if need be.

Judges are familiar with this sort of thing, and if you have a "witness" and she has no evidence at all.... she's fighting a steep battle, straight up that big ol' hill!

What's the website of this Russian Meeting House?

Also, there are several other sites that have big forums for US/RUS couples, what sites are you VJers on? Which sites are your wives on? Do you like them better than VJ? Are there more people there? Do you get interrupted by "visitors" or is it all chleni?

Slim, I have not heard of Russian Meeting house. I thought I new all the major forums

The one that I am hanging out most on is www.RUadventures.com. It is new but very active and growing like gang busters. It is a nice, helpful and intersting place.

The other that is excellent is www.russianwomendiscussion.com It is also very active, very interesting, well run and good people. It is also my fiancees favorite forum but without intending to do anything wrong did get us both into hot water there and we are sort of in a punishment stage there. That should end soon. I believe my post count there is around 3000.

Two more that I don't like as well.

One is www.RussianMeetingPlace.com There is a ton of information there and it is well run but there are two many topics with too many stickies that make it hard to find new posts and I find it to be far less interesting.

The grandaddy of sites is www.RWGuide.com. It was acquired by a MOB agency last year and has been going downhill in a handbasket. Too many of the posts are people making fun of other people, people flaming at each other and people who really not giving good advice. I rarely go there anymore.

For women RussianWomenAbroad seems to be popular and if you want to turn your lady into a man hater there is always the russian woman site called www.anti-date.com The name says it all. It is sort of a Russian Womans version of the Klu Klux Klan.

I'm pretty sure skinsfan was talking about Russian Meeting Place. Here is the thread he was referring to: Surprising Story. I've never visited that site much, but I used to like RW Guide.
Now I rarely visit that one either, and I just stick to VisaJourney.

I just thought of a new but related question here... What could possibly trigger an FBI name check during the AOS phase? Wouldn't anything like that be caught long before while you are in the K1 or K3 visa process?

James, RWG has gone way down hill since Spenser sold it. I was a little shocked at the value of a message board though. That one sold for 300 grand.

As far as the name check you have to remember you are dealing with the govt. I wish I could have had mine then instead of now. At least we would be together. This sucks.

This is really great advice.

What about also phoning USCIS and see if a Greencard had in fact been issued, or ask them if you can still cancel the AOS process?

I'm sorry you are going though this!!

I feel for you Turboguy, but at least you have the saving grace of being able to live together in Grenada while you wait it out. I certainly couldn't do anything like that since I have no money saved up, and if I quit my job I would have no income. On top of that, my monthly child support payment obligation would not stop if I moved out of the country for a few months. So unless I could immediately land a very good job in a place like Grenada, I could never do it.

I find it way hard to believe that 75% of ladies looking for a foreign guy are only interested in a green card. I admit I don't have much direct experience with visiting agencies but I have gottten to know a number of ladies who were listed in them.

While there are tons of girls, (or guys pretending to be girls) who are scammin men into sending money, I would be surprised if the actual number of ladies actually only looking for a mule to immigrate her is no more than 15%

Just do the numbers, all a woman would have to do is get the first guy to do a K-1 and then she would be off to america. If the agencies would be empty in no time because trust me guys do write and guys do visit, if the lady is only looking for a ticket she will not have to wait long.

Some one posted up stream that they only saw one drunk Russian man even though they have been there several times.
I think the "Bad russian man" line is greatly over played but to deny Russian men drink more and have a wife and a girlfriend is much more common there than in the USA.

The last time I was in St Petersburg I was walking to a Birthday party when I saw a 4 or 5 year old girl walking around near a play area carrying a Bottle of beer, drinking as she walked. The Russians with me kinda acted like it was sad and funny at the same time.

If you are the kind of guy that has ever been "duped" by an American girl.... you will get your ### tore up in Russia. If you are observant, perceptive and a good judge of character, you can find a real gem over there.

Speaking of forums.....I use to check in on a forum called the RWL,which I thought showed some arrogance and muscle flexing.
I recently tried to find the RWL and couldn't connect with it anymore.
Has it been desolved or had a name change....anyone Know?

bruc