So I am the USC and I obtained Indef Leave to Enter (ie UK version of the greencard - the sticker is also green!) through a previous marriage. I am now living back in the US, but I really want to keep my status intact. Everytime I come back to the UK, I do say that I am still living there (we still have our house) but I suppose techinically I am not.

Anyone else have this issue? Also, my US passport is due for renewal soon - anyone know how I can get my UK sticker transfered over? There is no mention of this on the britianusa website and I think their helpline number is non toll-free! I did know of another USC who used to carry both her current and expired passport as that had the entry certificate in it.

http://www.ukvisas.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pa...d=1036679107826

Does yours have an expiry date? I would think it wouldn't be valid anymore as you do not live there....




20.1 - Those who qualify (Rules Paragraph 18)
ECOs may issue entry clearance for a person applying for entry as a returning resident provided they are satisfied that the applicant:
had indefinite leave to enter or remain in the UK at the time he/she last left the country;
has not been away from the UK for longer than 2 years;
did not receive assistance from public funds towards cost of leaving the UK e.g. deportation (Sections 5(6) and 29 of the Immigration Act refer);
is seeking admission for the purpose of settlement (as opposed to a short visit).
Prior entry clearance is not mandatory


20.2 - Those who do not qualify
A person who fails to meet one of the conditions in the section above should normally be refused entry. See exceptions below.

Persons who have limited leave to remain in the UK which has not expired, may wish to re-enter the UK as returning residents. Paragraph 20 of the Rules states that such persons do not qualify.

Anyone who is subject to a deportation order or whose exclusion is deemed to be conducive to the public good should be refused (Rules Paragraphs 320(2) and 320(6)).

Those who were exempt from control during their previous stay in the UK because of their connection with a diplomatic or consular mission or an international organisation (Section 8 of the Immigration Act) do not qualify as returning residents.

A returning resident may not be refused entry on medical grounds, although an Immigration Officer can require the person to undergo a medical examination on arrival in the UK (Paragraph 138 of the Rules).


20.3 - Assessing the application
ECOs should adopt a common sense and flexible approach when assessing a returning resident application. If it is decided that the applicant is bona fide, it will not normally be necessary to make any further enquiries about a person's plans if it is clear that the UK is the ordinary place of residence.

Those who have their home in the UK may spend substantial periods overseas, on business, studying or visiting relatives. This does not disqualify them from re-admission as a returning resident, though they must show that they are normally resident in the UK, or intend to resume residence there and have not been away for more than two years.

There are exceptions to the two year rule which are covered in the sections below

If there is clear reason to doubt that the applicant can be treated as a returning resident, enquiries should be made to establish the applicant's intentions . For instance, persons resident overseas cannot maintain their settled status in the UK by paying short visits before resuming residence overseas. In such cases the applicant should be treated as a visitor.

Evidence to support a claim
Evidence in support of a claim to be a returning resident is normally available from the applicant's passport and will be in the form of entry and (old) embarkation stamps (endorsed by Immigration Officers) and stamps confirming the grant of further or indefinite leave to remain endorsed by the Home Office. Embarkation stamps are in the process of being phased back in (pending as at March 2007. See Chapter 1 for further details.

Questions put to the applicant may sometimes lead to an indication that the claim to be a returning resident is a fraudulent one. Inability to speak any English or to describe the town in which the person claims to have lived previously in the UK will be grounds for closer examination.

20.4 - Exception to the two year rule for those who have strong ties to the United Kingdom
Paragraph 19 of the Rules provides for persons who have ties with the country which merit admission even if they have not been resident in the UK for two years. ECOs should, therefore, consider the following factors in assessing whether strong ties exist:

the length of the original residence in the UK;
the time the applicant has been outside the UK;
the reason for the delay beyond the 2 years - was it through their own wish or no fault of their own (e.g. having to care for a sick or elderly relative)?;
the reasons for leaving the UK and for wishing to return now;
the nature of the family ties in the UK;
how close are they and to what extent have they been maintained during the absence?;
do they have a home in the UK and, if admitted, would they remain and live there?
The longer a person has remained outside the UK (over 2 years), the more difficult it will be for them to qualify for admission under this provision. The longer the previous residence in the UK, the stronger the case for consideration, provided that there had not been a break in residence which extended over a number of years.
Other more specific circumstances which would support an application are:

travel and service overseas with a particular employer before return to the UK with the employer;
service abroad for the UK Government, or as a dependant of a member of H M Forces or as an employee of a quasi-governmental body, a British company or a United Nations organisation;
employment abroad in the public service of a friendly country by a person who could not reasonably be expected to settle in that country permanently;
a prolonged period of study abroad by a person who wishes to rejoin the family in UK on completion of studies;
prolonged medical treatment abroad of a kind not available in the UK.

Strictly speaking as has already been said you lose your ILR once if you have left the UK for a certain amount of time. Used to be 2 years if it hasn't changed.

However coming at the problem from a different angle. For the years I worked at Heathrow Airport as a Special Branch officer I worked alongside the immigration officers on the desks in the terminals and what is written on paper isn't necessarily how it works in practice. The following is what happens in reality.

It used to be an immigration officer at a port could transfer your visa for you but this was stopped a few years ago. Now it can only be done at the Border and Immigration Agency (the new name) at the visa office which I think is still Luna House in Croydon. The cost of this is I believe now several hundred pounds. It cannot be done at an Embassy. However it doesn't need to be transferred just carry the old passport with the visa in it, the visa doesn't become invalid just because the passport expires.

The immigration officer at the port has no way of knowing how long you have been outside the UK other than by examining the stamps in your passport and by what you say in answer to your questions. Unfortunately I believe US immigration stamps a US citizens passport with the date they enter the USA so the UK immigration officer might get an idea from those. Most immigration officers I worked with if you are travelling back and forth have a house in the UK and haven't been out for more than 2 years are happy you are complying with the requirements of the visa. There were a few who were very strict and took pleasure in cancelling the visa. Most immigration officers just asked how long a person had been away and never checked the answer was correct.

Hope that helps you can certainly carry your old passport and present the visa in that, what happens then is down to how you choose to answer the questions and a bit of luck.

Thank you both for your answers. The visa has no expiration date. You get an inital one for a year, and then after one year you send in more documents and then it valid indefinitely.

Well, I go back all the time and I never lie. Even when asked how long have you been away, my answer is often 8 weeks or longer. And I would think that as long as I go to the UK once every 2 years, I am complying. I just dont want to have to give this up incase we ever decide to move back to the UK. Having to go through that process again would just as frastrating as going through this process!

OK. I will just carry my expired passport as well as my current one.

US officials sometimes stamp a USC's passport, but in my experience they usually don't. In all the times I've re-entered the United States, they only stamped me once.

The French didn't stamp me at ALL last time I went there.



I gotta ask...if you and your UKC husband ever want to go back to the UK, it's a piece of piss to get a residency visa...so why bother with fibbing? If you get caught and the visa is revoked, you could really be in the shiznit if you try to apply for another one.

Something to think about...

Well, I wouldn't exactly call it a piece of piss. True it may not be as involved as the K1 procecss - but it is certainly something I do not wish to repeat. Plus the filing fees are getting out of control.

But as Lansbury said, it's not even legal really. It depends on luck.

I wonder what would happen if you moved back tho, with a different spouse & years of no UK addess or NHS records? WOuld they figure it out & revoke it?

*shrug* I think it is. Certainly easier than traveling frequently to the UK.

Probably not; the Home Office is known for having its thumb up its azz.

You can divorce your spouse and keep the indefinite leave to remain visa, so I don't think the new spouse will raise any eyebrows.

The ILR is supposed to lapse after two years of being away from the UK but if they stamp you with a tourist visa on re-entry, that pretty much immediately invalidates it. Immigration officials in the UK are not stupid and could figure out that you're not resident in the UK just by asking you a few questions, "you" being anyone.

I have no plans to try to keep my ILR visa; if it expires, it expires. If we ever decide to come back here (which is very unlikely) then I will just have to apply for it again at that time. No biggie.

yeah, but it is still unnecessary money that you would have to pay to get it again. i shouldve just applied for the passport while i was still there, oh well.

Quite easy to check either the immigration officer themselves or they ask one of the Special Branch officers to phone the Social Security benefits office in Newcastle and ask when did this person last paid NI contributions or claimed benefits.

With that information the immigration officer can make an educated guess how long the person has been away. I have seen the immigration interview go down hill rapidly from that point as far as the would be arrivee was concerned.

*shrug* So?

Yeah but just because you don't pay NI contributions or claim benefit isn't a sure fire way to prove you didn't live there. You could not be working, etc. I was only once questioned for more than one min in the last 2 years - never any problems. I have been back about 20 times in the last two years, usually for a few days at a time.







Well I try to avoid extra hassle/wasting money wherever possible

To me it seems much less of a hassle to just get another visa than to travel so frequently to the UK and withhold information from immigration officials. That's just me tho.

I didn't say it was a sure fire way but it gives the immigration officer a good idea. They can then decide to do a more detailed secondary interview on a more formal basis and a baggage search. No doubt if you live in the USA your return ticket would tell them when you are going back and they might think that strange if you have ILR. By the way not having a printed ticket but a e-ticket the ticket details are still readily available.

One point to bear in mind with UK immigration. The immigration officer does not have to prove you are in breech of your visa conditions it is only necessary that they think you are. On that alone the Chief Immigration Officer on duty in the terminal has the authority to refuse you entry and stamp and mark your passport with a permanent record of the refusal.

Now as I said experience says there is a very slim chance of that happening but you did ask the question and all I'm doing is making you aware of what goes on should you unfortunately find yourself in circumstances where the information might be useful.

It's definitely a risk. Wouldn't it technically constitute fraud?

The immigration officer can also stamp your passport with a tourist stamp totally by accident... which is what happened to my husband years ago. It took him months to get his ILR back, during which time he couldn't work or claim any benefits. It was a total nightmare.

He has since got himself a UK passport, and although that wasn't the most fun process it was much easier than this whole green card shebang. He did make sure not to send his US passport off to the Home Office though - they had a reputation at that point for keeping hold of foreign passports for much longer than needed. He told them he'd lost it, and they accepted some other documents instead.

Not sure if it's a fraud or not. But if they get caught it would almost certainly result in the ILR visa being cancelled and would I believe require a visitors visa for any future visits. The immigration officer uses their stamp to stamp the passport and then puts a cross through the stamp to signify a refusal, and an entry goes on the Immigration Warning Index which is the computer that the passport is swiped through when you arrive in the UK. After that you are going to have problems every time you land.

I agree with you it isn't worth the risk and quite easy to a new UK visa if needed in the future. But each to their own choice.

I'm with you on that one.

My passport expires in September...it has my ILR visa in it and I have no plans to have a new one put in my new passport. I'm just going to ignore it and when I re-enter the UK with my new passport, they'll stamp me in as a tourist and that'll be the end of it.

UK immigration is MUCH easier than US immigration, but UK immigration officers are not idiots and they're not pushovers.

So isn't possible for people to have residency in both countries? I just don't see any benefit in voluntarily giving it up when the worst they would do is take it away anyways.

No; you can't be a permanent resident of the UK if you don't live there.

Taking it away is not necessarily the worst they would do. Seriously...you're being very stubborn over something that is easy to get.

I'm not being stubborn. I'm analyst, I evaluate and think of all possible options before making a decision. That is all.

Lansbury already said what happens & he worked next to immigration. You've been told technically it's not legal & you can get in trouble. There's no analysis involved.

I'll just say this...I would never take the risk you're taking. But it's your life.