Look it's no good - I am just one person and there are 360 million Americans, and by the time I have taught them all not to take statements at face value, and to not be so defensive about politics and religion, and to lighten up, I am going to be exhausted.

But I can't open my mouth about any issues without getting an enraged deranged response if it is 1 degree away from the US government line

Now I am going to go through with this immigration project so the answer is obvious - I need to have my attitude adjusted to become typical of the host population or at least brought into line

I am aware that they were brought up in classrooms with flags flying and hand on heart and George Washington could not tell a lie - but is it too late for me to be socially adjusted to think like them ?

My mother in law was watching telly with me and there was the trial of American troops for raping a young girl in front of her family and then shooting them all and setting fire to them.. she simple wouldn't even think about it and said US soldiers need supporting under all circumstances and it simply was not true whatever the evidence

In a nutshell, the attitude is 'my country right or wrong'

How am I going to cope with this huge culture gap without exploding with indignation or alienating everyone

actually I am serious - I read that despite the common language, the culture gap Britain/US is wider than between Britain and any European Country - it isn't the food or the language or the customs - it's the burned in attitudes and beliefs and approach to things. That isn't easy to accept, but I have been suspecting for a long time that it's true. Look at a rugby team from France/Italy/Ireland/England - as they walk onto the pitch their demeanor is very similar - now look at American football and all the strutting etc - it really is much more alien than most Brits imagine.
I am going to do this but I need to develop a coping strategy

alan

Vielen dank ! Das ist wirklich nett ! Jemand versteht mich !

good 'un

You've somewhat overestimated the US population; it's more like 280-300 million.



It's probably not only what you're saying, but how you're saying it. Americans don't like to be lectured by foreigners.



That's not how I was brought up. It's easy to befriend Americans; we're a very earnest, friendly and laid-back bunch. You don't have to think like us or hold the same beliefs, but you need to respect people who think differently from you. It's a two-way street.



I would hope her attitude is not representative of the US population. Even my father, who is a Gee Dub supporter and red-blooded Republican, wouldn't say something like that. It's just flat-out wrong.



The sooner you realize we're not all like that, the better off you'll be.



Brushing the chip off your shoulder will help immensely.



Having spent a lot of time in France, I disagree. The French are much, much more different from Americans than the British are. You guys are actually more like us than you'd ever care to know.

You forget the Pedros and Juanitas and the Paddies - hum so you only outnumber the iraqis by 15 to 1 and not the 20 to 1 that I thought..

That makes it fairer

ok back to the sunbathing

As usual, I agree with HA.

Hey, Alan...I just read some of your posts in that 'Mexican' thread and many of them had me chuckling. But this post of yours has irritated me, for all the reasons HA has put forth, so why bother repeating them, lol?

Welcome to the forum here btw

Thought I might find some Brits or Europeans kicking around in this forum and I might get some insight into how others coped...
My thread is about people being intolerant and getting irritated at opposite views - and you come on and say that iritates you ?
Own goal I reckon

I used to know a woman who was accused of being un-feminine - she screwed her face up into a snarl and smashed her fist onto the table and all the glasses fell off onto the floor - she stood up and towered over the table and bellowed in a very deep loud threatening voice 'I AM FEMININE ' !!!!

It's called irony- the Americans think thats like coppery or steely - they don't get it - but it's the core of Euro-humour

You don't have to lecture me on Euro-humor as I've lived in the UK for several years and I get what you're saying. I also get how difficult it is to acclimate to a place that is so similar on the surface, yet so different in reality.

I have no problem with embracing differences....but certainly not attitudes of superiority. America is what it is...there's tons of us and we're not all some big giant machine that is incapable of independent thought. The sooner you realize that and stop generalizing, the better off you'll be

Adding: if it's tolerance & acceptance of opposing views that you're after, how about showing some?

Neither do Brits when the lecturer is a nationalist supremacist - you are a foreigner by the way

Yes, I'm aware of this. Your countrymen point it out every single day. I may complain about life in the UK, but it seems that I'm dealing with it better than you'll deal with life in America.

Either you're winding us up (which I strongly suspect) or your stay in the US will last only a few months before your wife throws you out, you go crazy, or you end up in the hospital courtesy of a chunky redneck who isn't familiar with your made-up terms of endearment.

Later.

I've forwarded my David the link to this thread.... he doesn't post here. I'll be interested in his perspective on this....

Oh dear - HA said my 18 mths in Wisconsin wasn't enough for me to learn ANYTHING - but you say your stay in the UK was. This is what I am complaining about - American's experiences are valid and everyone else's are invalid and they are just there to be taught the 'right' way to look at things.
and HA says we are not that different but you say we are - a split in the ranks eh ?

Lets see if I can open it up

one of you might come down my side yet

alan

see what I mean ? as soon as an American is given a little teaser, they immediately start talking violence- and relish the idea of what the redneck will do to me..

can't be long before they use the 'like a donkey' word- they always get below the waist pretty quickly

all i have to do is sit back and watch you two hoist yourselves with your own petard

Maybe if you make a few more VAST generalizations about 300 million people, judged on one persons experiences with Americans...

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/hoist%2...n%20petard.html

I didn't say that to you So I think you need to take that up with the one who did, and not confuse the waters here. However, your post here is my point exactly...you're holding me accountable for what someone else said. Why...cos we're both American? 'We Americans' are not interchangeable.

I don't know much about Wisconsin and the people there, but any intellgent person can see that since America is comprised of immigrants from all over the world, we're not all one homogenized being. There are plenty of different perspectives and attitudes that you will find, if you truly open your eyes. Generalizing is doing you a disservice.

How about reply to me when it's actually relevant to what I've actually said, k?

18 months isn't very much. I've lived in the UK for over six years now. I may be JUST an American, but even I know that 6 years > 18 months.

I'm getting tired of your attitude and I'm tired of you trying to wind people up and pick fights. If you hate America, for god's sake do ALL of us a favor and don't move there.

Wow.

Have you discussed how you're feeling with your wife, saywhat? I think she would be the best person to discuss these feelings with and would be the best person to help you.

Yo welcome !

All of you had a flag in your classroom didn't you ? some generalizations are 100% accurate and some are true but are just generalisations...there is no smoke without fire and most stereotypes have a basis in truth

The US is a violent society (as a whole) - surely you don't want to say that isn't so ? I wouldnt be married to an American if I thought it was everybody - I am just saying a large proportion

This thread is how a foreigner should cope in the US without becoming cowed by what many people around the world see as a very strident and dominating national ethos which is very prickly about admitting any faults in America to 'a foreigner'

I want to be able to discuss American Government policy domestic and international without being shouted down or threatened - how can I do that ?

alan

Start by ending your generalizations and your promulgation of stereotypes.

This thread is actually vindicating HA a lil bit because she's been very vocal about not being happy in the UK. If it's because of attitudes like this...I can somewhat understand. My experience there was wonderful and accepting & was not frought with this 'you americans this...we brits that'. I've come to regard where I lived as my 'second home' and the friends I've met as 'family'.

If I was faced with a plethora of people with this kind of attitude, I'd have been one unhappy woman there.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/promulgation

Seems like I meet a new one at least once a week. Now that I've stopped working and will likely spend most of what time I have remaining in the UK inside my house, I shouldn't meet too many more saywhats. I'll have to content myself with shouting at the radio and the television.

I have learned to keep my mouth shut in public, and talk abut it with my husband in private. If I am asked specifically my views, I tread lightly to gauge the other person's reaction and if it starts to get testy, I stop. I learned a long time ago that it's not worth the hassle.

I got back to what HA said in her first post

'Its not what you say but how you say it'

You're prolly unaware of what you're doing to provoke the responses you've gotten...but it's a perfect example of a self-fulfilling prophecy. You have an attitude because you feel we'll be defensive , yet what you don't realize is that we're defensive because you have an attitude.

Perhaps a little self-evaluation on how you approach these things wouldn't go amiss..Good luck!




lol Jen you kill me!

You're such an interloper!

Now you are stereotyping the Brits because of one bad apple (me)

You guys keep on making my point for me -its ok for you and its not ok for the foreigners

it really is hypocrasy - no i wont give you a dictionary link -
ok i will
http://www.zwsafaris.com/photogallery/phot...EER%20HIPPO.jpg

I have to agree with previous replies. You are generalizing all Americans as being the same. If you have this sort of mentality now, how will you ever be happy in the states?

I can't speak for my husband but I do know many times he has commented on how much friendlier people here are than they were back home. Obviously it all depends on the area you will be living in, BUT if you come in with the attitude you have and take it out on every person you meet you definetly will end up with the response you want.

If you're going to accuse us of butchering your precious English language, learn to spell it correctly yourself first. Some punctuation wouldn't go amiss either.

If you're gonna provide a link, at least spell it right: hypocrisy




.. and as usual, I agree with you!

The UK is IMHO a more violent society than the USA. Homicides may be higher in the USA, but the average person's experience of violence in the USA is way lower than in the UK, especially random violence. In 8 years of living here I can count on 1 finger the number of bar brawls I've seen, on one hand the number of one of one fights I've seen, and on zero fingers the number of shootings I've heard/seen.

I was in the UK for a week last summer, and was in the pub when a fight broke out and my brother was mugged. These were in nice surburban neighbourhoods, the same as I live in the USA.

No, it's because she's been quite vocal here in describing living in an atmosphere around people like you. And you can go and search posts on how she took a lot of sh!t for it, from many people including myself. You're the one who actually proved her point, not me.

I also said 'IF' they are like you, I can understand. I use you because your attitude today has fit the description of everything she's been saying. I never really believed it, tbh. I did differentiate between 'all brits' and 'you' because I've said my own experience was wonderful and I regard those I've met as family. Did you miss that bit, or are you just selectively blind?

So the circle is forming - all ladies, all American - seems I am outnumbered - until it gets to 15 to 1 like in iraq, I needn't be worried.
I say I am generalizing but not stereotyping but even that isn't acceptable - it's close ranks against the foreigner and don't give an inch - that is the aggressive intolerance and latent violence that this thread is supposed to be discussing and you don't give me chance to make my point cos you all keep making it for me...

Generalizations are valid - most pigmies are shorter than most watusis - get it ? Stereotypes aren't - I am 6ft but many Chinese are far taller than me... jeez it's like pulling teeth- oops that sounded a bit violent

I offered a comment that I thought might help. When I've felt the culture gap here in the UK, I've gone to my husband to discuss it, and he's made really good, interesting points that have helped me. That's why I suggested talking to your wife.

You really don't get it. Know your audience!

I guess you missed my female Canadian input then.

I am an american. I am marrying an opinionated Brit. Alan..I daresay, you and he have a lot in common. The point is..he doesn't relish in winding people up..ok face to face maybe he does, but he doesn't randomly wander the internet playing big bad instigator.

Now if I ignore the entire of this thread and go back to your first question. "How do I cope...because I view things differently"
Well you just do. You be who you are and if you piss a crapload of people off in the process then so be it. You are coming here to marry someone, so I can assume at least one american can hold her own with you.
Look at the sheer vastness of the size of the US...you can't say that people in the mid-west act exactly like they do in the east, or the east is exactly like the west. In my situation, I'm on the east coast surrounded by moster cities and the nation's capitol is just outside my doorstep. There are more beliefs, races and classes in my neighborhood then some countries see in entire cities...I would no sooner expect my neighbor to share all my belief's then I would expect my future husband to. Part of living in the world's melting pot is acceptance, in some cases whether you like it or not. You will HAVE to accept those who are different from you just as you HAVE to accept them. It's part of a living in a blended society.
You are moving to a country where the native born did indeed grow up with flags in the classroom, hand on heart, pledge of allegiance. This is all true, so what? It's what our culture does. If I moved to some tribal community in a jungle I wouldn't run around the net screaming about their tribal traditions, it is who they are. "OMG the people around me live in trees!" ........ your point is? You are a smart person, you were fully aware of what the US was like before you choose to immigrate here...what's changed now?

Now you just wanna cope...so I just say cope! Be a man, do your thing, live your life, take care of your family, get a job, keep looking for friends in different places until you can find your groove. Make like Nike and "just do it". This isn't rocket science, it's life. Live it. If in the end you hate it so much, move somewhere else...if that's what it takes.

This just really didn't seem like that hard of a question to deal with. But in the end remember...at least one american out of your 300 million, managed to keep your attention long enough for you to "WANT" to come here *lol*

That's not it at all. LisaD is telling the truth when she said that people jumped down my throat for telling 'porkies' about people like you in the UK. I wouldn't classify any of the people here who have responded to you as being anti-foreign, anti-UK, or anti-British...and they're as likely to jump on an American as they are to jump on a foreigner for saying something they don't agree with.

The reason people aren't being nice to you in this thread is because you are, quite frankly, acting like an a$$. You throw out offensive stereotypes, whine that Americans don't like you or treat you badly, then when we don't fall for the act, you accuse us of being xenophobic. You're not the first person to think this scheme up. Drop the 'tude and people here will help you. Don't, and I think you'll find that this sort of tension continues.

I'm asking myself if I really want to waste my time with this one. I'll probably just be playing into his 'see, what a typical American' hands, but I'm not worried.

Are there Americans so blinded by the fear induced by 9/11 that they blindly support this President and his destructive choices? Oh, I think it's a definate as I've seen it myself. It's frustrating to see people so pro-War, with the attitude that America is just blatantly accepted worldwide as "The greatest country in the world", that everyone else wants to BE LIKE US, and somehow think we really do have the right to perpetrate invasions and detrimental foreign policy on others with no question. I have seen this attitude, and it bothers me, but I don't think it is the majority by any means. I'm not speaking from something I read in a newspaper about statistics, I'm talking about people I meet and have discussions with on a daily basis from wide ranging backgrounds and experiences.

I've been all over The U.K.- Southend, Perth, London, Chesham, Edinburgh, Manchester, Leeds, Southampton, & more - yet I could never sit here and make broad generalizations about the entire country just because of one tone, attitude, or common outlook I may have picked up on in one part of it. I can't because it's not possible. I don't need statistics to tell me there are wider points of view, and for every person I came across who was confrontational about me being American, there were loads of others who were not. I met quite a few people who cornered me with harsh questioning for me to 'answer for' America, but I didn't at any time think 'People in the UK are anti-American!!!". They're simply not. For every person who gave me a hard time, there was another one around the corner who wouldn't. For every person who came at me with misinformation and stereotypes about what it was like to be American, there was another who simply wanted to chat, to ASK questions, to talk instead of assume.

Sure there are Americans who are misinformed, bullheaded, scared, confrontational, ignorant, etc. OF COURSE there are. They're not fun to deal with, I know. Honestly though, you're talking about a TYPE of person and that TYPE of person can be found ANYWHERE. Still, I assure you it's not America as a whole, all these things you're speaking of. There are people aplenty that aren't happy with a lot of things our country does, but they still love living here, and what's wrong with that? People who will not corner you, or make you feel like you have to apologize for having a different opinion or doing things differently. Educated and open minded human beings with a lot more to say than "AMERICA RULES!". We're not all sitting obliviously in front of our televisions believing what is spoon fed to us by our handful of media giants & their agendas.

I don't know if you WANT to know that there's a whole diverse world awaiting you if you travel America and really talk to people. If you want to find more people who can discuss foreign policy, politics in general, causes, culture, issues, and the big world that lay outside America with a broader viewpoint - just don't build a bubble for yourself where you happen to be right now. Your In-Laws, the town you're in, the people in your direct circle are not the whole of America. If you're really looking for reassurance that you don't actually have to 'wash your brain' and can expect to find diversity, culture, and a myriad of differing viewpoints out there, you have it. You will have it, just get in the car and drive. Have chats. Kick assumptions, stereotypes, and preconceived notions out the window and there's a lot you'll find good in America, and EVERYWHERE in the world. Americans can definately be demonized in the media, but like I believe you might tell us, just STOP WATCHING TELEVISION. Go outside, have a look around, it's not so bad out there.

For some reason though, I am not sure that is for you. If all you want to do is remain within the box of security you may have built inside your head telling you "This is this, and that is that", then all you'll probably be content to do is complain and push your own perceptions until someone agrees with you 100%. According to you, that's a very American trait to have, so you should really fit right in!!

Good luck

As an American, I am not offended by anything saywhat has said. *shrug*

That said, we are planning to move to Europe as soon as possible.

Given my Job I agree completely with you, I've seen way more violence in the UK than I have in the USA.

My question, if you don't like America, don't like its people, why he hell are you trying to come here?

Extremely well said.

Jen

Hehe, good luck with that.



Thank you!

I've witnessed about 10x more violent crime here, in low-crime York, in six years than I ever saw in the US in nearly 26 years, and that was in Dallas. Dallas as you know is one of America's most violent cities.

I had to move to the UK to become a crime victim.

Many of us only move here because our loved one is here, and it makes sense for us to be here at this point in time.
(I was waiting for this question to pop up, only took until page 3!)

I have lived in the UK, Scotland and England all of my life, until I came to the US over 2 years ago now. I find people will treat you the way you treat them. You want to have an attitude? Well, don't expect to not get the same attitude in return, in the UK, or the US. I have had no problems here with anyone, everyone that I have met have been really nice people. I just have to say, what you expect is what you will get. You come looking for a fight, that's what you'll get. If you come to the US with a good attitude and positive outlook then there is more of a chance that you will have a good life here. As for having flags in their classrooms that you keep going on about, what is the big deal about that? Americans are very patriotic, so what? I'm proud of the UK, maybe we don't express the proudness of our country as much as in the US, but that doesn't make showing that you are proud of your country a bad thing.

Thanks! I don't think we'll have any problems moving back again.

Hey Margo- missed ya !
She can't hack it here at all - the English speak so quietly and she can't park and can't undertake on the motorway etc - in contrast I think I did ok in Wisconsin in the end but I am aiming for perfection this time and I want to feel comfortable without being a sell-out. I passed my driving test there and the motorbike theory and got a social security card and bank account and credit card etc etc
Yes I was doing ok but had to be SO careful about engaging anyone in a real conversation because if your not with us then you are against us is the ethos... When you go in a bar in Wisconsin and all the guys are 300lbs and they all have a pick up with a shotgun in it and a boy serving in iraq, all you can do is say how wonderful the beer is and much better than home. Its a bit different from a wine bar in Harrogate.

Carolyn is a fiery readhead but quiet as well and a thinker underneath- and the most European thinking of any American I have ever met. She dislikes dubbleyer intensly, but if she didn't I would be ok with it - and she can give me a tolerant discussion without identifying me as an 'alien' and the 'anti-american enemy' to be stubbed out

alan

I am not offended either!


Alan - I have missed your ways!

What the hell does that mean?


Oh, and sounds to me like you live in 'good ol boy' territory. If that's what you're basing the whole of US on, you are so mistaken it's not even funny.

Just don't forget to keep filing your income taxes.