I didn't say Europe doesn't have anything to offer; other people just assumed that is what I thought. I simply do not like to travel, and my dislike of traveling extends to my own country as well. I hate flying, I hate staying in hotels, I hate living out of suitcases.

York was intriguing the first time I saw it...but after six years, it has gotten old.



Sure sure...you said that after someone agreed with me. Pwnd.

Sure I do.

Well, no. Discrimination involves behaviour, not attitudes and opinions. For example, if you are a purple person, and I tell you to your face, "You know what man, I really HATE purple people", that is not discrimination. On the other hand, if you apply for a job with me, and I do not hire you ONLY BECAUSE you are a purple person, well, that is discrimination. On the other hand, if I refuse to hire you because you don't speak Japanese, well, that's discrimination too.

Discrimination perhaps?

Cheers!
AKDiver

By the way - discrimination is a GOOD thing. The human species would have died out a long time ago had it not evolved to discriminate based on perception.

Everyone discriminates, every day. Discrimination has become a dirty word, even though it really is nothing more than choosing behaviour A over behaviour B (typically making a choice to take some action based on stimulii), for whatever reason.

People need to understand and appreciate the difference between discrimination, and discrimination that is deemed illegal under the law.

Cheers!
AKDiver

Whatever you say....and what does pwnd mean?

No need to explain Pwnd.....i looked it up already

Sorry, HA...that's what I inferred from what you wrote above.

I wouldn't say that the modern American culture is the continuation of the Native American civilization. Well, it isn't The United States as a civilization have been around for only over 200 years. It's not a long time, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, and there is no need to try to compete with each other. If a country has a shorter history, it doesn't mean it's inferior to European countries.

I never implied that the US was inferior to Europe, I simply said that Americans miss out on the history and culture if they don't visit.

Homesick American has stated that she dislikes to travel, that is her perogative. She has obviously done some travel in her life as she now lives in the UK.

Lets just agree to differ.........its kinda like the chocolate

It's pretty hard to experience Native American culture in a casual visit to the US anyway - it's there to see on reservations and a few museums, but you don't land at an airport at a major American city and get a sense of thousands of years of history here as you do in most European cities. It doesn't mean its "better" or "worse" - its just different.

I also agree that Americans (or Europeans/Asians/Latins/Africans/Australians) miss out on a lot when they don't visit other countries.

I wouldn't call it discrimination, but what it is: ignorant prejudice. Assuming every Hispanic-looking person (which basically means 'brown with black hair') is a nanny or a maid really just mean the rich white people need to get out of their bubble a little more.

Don't sweat it. Anti-Hispanic sentiment is a bit high in the U.S. now, but most people aren't assholes once you get to know them.

Now THIS is an accurate statement.

Actually, you can see aspects of various Native American culture in words we've adopted, foods we eat, and in some of our own rituals. Study up on it.

Also, the assumption that American culture somehow sprang up out of nowhere bothers me. American culture is the fusion of hundreds of cultures, languages, creeds, religious practices, etc. America's history is both its own and an offshoot from European history. To say that American culture "started" at some arbitrary date when the European conqueror of your choice arrived there is (to me) the height of arrogance.

Sorry for starting the problems here.
My hubby keeps saying that everything is in my mind (it's not in my mind!!! it happens to me all the time) I'm more than proud of being peruvian and feel even prouder when people talks about the INCAS and Machu Picchu. My husband is white and I'm a little bit brown with dark hair, of course he was never discriminated and sometimes he doesn't believe me when I tell him that people look at me different or make comments about my "exotic look",my accent or ask me where did I learn english. It's ok a few times, but all the time???? is really annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Vi

You didn't start anything; don't worry.

When people make comments about your 'exotic look' or your accent, almost always they are not trying to be rude. If they ask you where you learned English, it is probably because they think your English is good. I don't see that comments like that are racist or discriminatory at all. They're just curious about you. If they told you you were ugly, your English was bad, and your accent made you sound stupid, then I would disagree that their comments were racist and rude. However...pointing out the obvious to me is not racist and never has been. You're foreign. You're Peruvian. You look different from most Americans. You have an accent. What's wrong with that?

Being different can be tiresome. As an immigrant myself, I know how you feel. I'm an American who has lived in the UK for the last six years. I'm not very exotic-looking and I speak English, but I still look different from English people and I have an accent. I get it almost every day. I like to think I can tell when someone is trying to be rude or is merely curious. I try to answer the curious peoples' questions without being rude (because you as a foreigner are an ambassador for the rest of your country) and I just ignore the rude ones.

People will never stop asking you questions like that or making comments about your 'exotic' looks or your accent. I don't mean to be rude, but I suggest you try to get used to it. I know it's a pain, but it's something you will just have to learn to cope with.

My very white and 'non-exotic' looking hubby doesn't draw any attention in public until he opens his mouth. When that Irish accent comes out, peoples eyes pop open in surprise - sometimes you can actually see them turn around to look.

I agree with HA. By and large most comments an immigrant hears are not intended to be 'rude'. They are probably out of curiosity or maybe a sense of pleasant surprise.

I imagine it would get tiresome, though. I've had people say to me they have questions for my husband, but they didn't want to make him feel like a 'freak'. I guess that means many of the people who don't SAY something might be thinking how they love an accent or 'exotic' look, but don't want to comment.

I think that's because people are so freaking sensitive nowadays. Here's how I imagine future conversations:

A: What beautiful brown eyes you have!

B: RACIST! *slap*

I agree with you guys sometimes I feel special but sometimes people can be very rude, for example::: Once I went to Banana Republic and 2 guys (latinos) walked in front of me, as soon as they saw me walking next to them I had security people following me (and they were SO OBVIOUS)It was so uncomfortable that I had to leave the place. This is something that NEVER happened to me in my country, I know who I am and people say to me not to worry about it but it makes me feel really bad. Yes I'm "bROWNIE" and I love my color and my heritage but things like that make me wish to go back to my country(with hubby of course) where everybody speaks like and understand my "accent".

I didn't mention this before my hubby is italian/american (dad side), and people confused him with Irish (brown -redish hair/green eyes) but his mom is Puerto Rican (born in NYC) she speaks spanish and dances salsa very good, we get along very well, the thing is that he doesn't want anybody to know about his Puerto Rican background, once I told one of his co -workers about his puerto rican family and he got upset. He loves and is proud of his LATINA - EXOTIC LOOKING wifey BUT keeps as a secret his latino side. That's BS!!!!!

Vi

Vi -

80 years ago in America, the security people in a store would have been following your husband's Italian relatives around making sure they weren't gonna steal.

American goes through a race or culture every 20 or 30 years or so and decides to make those people targets. Right now it is hispanics and muslims. Before that it was blacks and japanese. Before that it was the irish/german/italian immigrants and before that it was the chinese immigrants.

Kind of weird really when you think about it.

Yup, looks wise I fit in fine here in the USA, but as soon as I open my mouth I can see my accent register on other American's faces. A few will say something like "I could listen to you talk all day" or "I just love your accent", but the majority - after a two second delay - will carry on the conversation as normal.

It happened to my brother in law. He is Indonesian and an elderly woman of Indonesian descent asked him if he worked for a restaurant. This happened in the Netherlands - lots of Indonesian restaurant. And no, he did not work in restaurant industry.

Husband's niece (4 yo) asked me the first time I saw her " Do you speak Spanish". I said I wished. For her, everybody who is "brown" skin speaks Spanish.

But has anyone ever said anything nasty to you just because you're English? I'd be sort of surprised if they had. Americans go gaga for English people. I mean, I did; I married one. Texans especially go gaga for the accent. I had an English friend back in Dallas and I couldn't take him anywhere and have a normal conversation because women practically humped his leg everywhere we went. And he was in his FIFTIES!

It is not just America that this happens. I was in the UK for almost 2 years living with Ian, and I got it a lot. I even had one man at Ian's bowls club come up to me and start saying that he doens't like Americans and that it is ashame that his two sons both work for American companies. I was also working for a friend of Ian's at his bar/restaurant and I had a lady talking smack about Americans all night. I walked out of there in tears. Ian was so pissed off he lost his friends after that night because the lady ended up being the head chefs mother. He claimed his mother would never talk like that. Even the bartender heard everything this woman said and told the owner....well...i lost that job quick enough. When I hear people saying that it is only the Americans, it really upsets me because it's not. It happens all over the world. Go to South Africa...the blacks are still held as slaves.

LJ

Oooh girl, don't get me started on some of the ugliness I've seen here as an American.

I can PM it to you if you like...at least then you'll know you are NOT alone.

I still get people being rude to me, but that's cos they are just gits. It's nothing to do with my accent or race. People here tend to be polite in general, I've not had any untoward situations where people have been horrible to me.

I completely believe that that happens to you. In fact, it happens to me too, and I'm not even latina, but some people think I am. It's disgusting and it pisses me off royally.

Some people are just azzholes, true.

I've never had any problems with discrimination while in America, the closest was being asked where in England Scotland was, it may have to do with the fact not many people understand me, that I'm white and the fact that these days I look a little severe . America was built by immigrants with the exception of course of the native Americans I think people tend to forget this, and just ignore the history of the US when it suits them.

And what, the "native" Americans just magically appeared one day? All evidence suggest that they too immigrated here, just much earlier than "the white man". "These people, whose ancestors crossed the land bridge from Asia in what may be considered the first North American immigration" (http://memory.loc.gov/learn/features/immig/native_american.html).

Did ignoring this fact just suit you, or are you merely ignorant?

Cheers!
AKDiver

Allow me to rephrase, MODERN AMERICA WAS BUILT BY IMMIGRANTS WITH THE EXCEPTION OF NAITVE AMERICANS WHO WERE ALREADY HERE (but did indeed make a large contribution to our culture).

Better?

So no, Not ignorant, nor am I ignoring facts, I guess just didn't word it properly.

Just curious if you think there is any group that made only a small contribution to our culture, and if so, which groups might those be?

It's also worth pointing out that a good portion of MODERN AMERICA was also built by non-immigrants - people who were born here, even if they were not "already here" before the country was formed.

I dunno man - seems like the fact didn't suit you.

On another note - it is interesting how some people (not necessarily poster Oath) talk about "native" Americans as if they had one single overall culture and lived in peace and harmony and stuff. I bet a lot of people would be surprised to learn that "native" Americans consisted of many numerous tribes, had hundreds of languages, and in many cases, didn't get along at all. They had their own territories, and fought wars, and took territories from other tribes, inflicted their culture on other tribes, and so forth. In some respect, "what the white man did" was really no different from what the people here were already doing to themselves, other than maybe being more efficient about it. They can be thought of as just more tribes, that happened to ride in on boats rather than horses.

As far as I know, no one is still crying about the tribal wars in Europe, when the Vikings, and Saxons, Vandals, and other tribes were raiding and taking over new territory, or still complaining about the influence of incursions by the Romans or the Huns. So, one can only conclude that sensitivity to such issues is really a matter of timeliness and being relatively recent news. I guess if we just sit on our hands for 1000 years or whatever, than the whole notion of special rights for certain groups of people just because "they were here first" will slowly fade away.

Cheers!
AKDiver

Just tell them,

"Would you like to know what you'd be without us, the good ol' U.S. of A. to protect you?
I'll tell you. The smallest fucking province in the Russian Empire, that's what. So don't
call me stupid, lady. Just thank me."

Don't you tell me to study up. I have a B.A. in History, so I know a thing or two. Also, nowhere in my post did I imply that the American culture just appeared all of a sudden by the wave of a magic wand.

It bothers me when people make assumptions based on their wrong interpretations of sombedy else's words.

Isn't this more or less what history is? History is written by the victors ya know (:

In 1000 years, people will be learning a much different version of history than the one we know now (:

Cheers!
AKDiver

You're right. To tell you the truth, the biggest revelation I had in my life happened in my college days. That's when I learned that there's no right or wrong, no true or false, no good or bad - there's just facts and various interpretations of these facts. And all these interpretations have the right to exist, and people have the right to believe whatever suits them better. Back then it hit me hard and almost made me depressed - I had been an idealist before I started learning history, I thought there was good and bad, there had to be! So, learning history turned me into a skeptic, and I just accepted the fact that nothing's objective.

Back to the topic: I can't say I experienced any discrimination in the U.S. But if we ever had to move to some area with 0% immigrant population, I think I would be telling you a different story.

I love that movie.




Ooooh, a BA. I have one too. It qualifies me to make sweeping yet inaccurate statements about applied linguistics in the French language.

I'm half Mexican-American and half Heinz-57-American (mostly Irish, some Belgian, English and Scottish) and that sort of thing happened to me all the time when I was a kid in America. I've got very lightly tanned skin and green eyes, but all people saw was the colour. I got tailed by security staff, delayed in casualty at the hospital whilst waiting for an interpreter (someone assumed with my Hispanic last name I only spoke Spanish -- and I don't know a word beyond Geri Haliwell's "Mi Chico Latino"), asked for my green card at the Social Security office when getting a new card even though I presented my birth certificate which clearly stated I was born in Connecticut, asked if I had passed my GED before getting a job (I went to boarding school and an Ivy League university) and about eleventy billion times spoken to first in Spanish before English. I'm not embarrassed of my Hispanic heritage, but I was brought up amongst my raucous Irish-American side of the family, and since they are white, I self-identify as white. (My dad said he knew someone in college who was Korean-American who self-identified as Hispanic because he had grown up in a mostly Latino neighbourhood in LA.) I got pretty ticked off at all the presumption.

When I came to Britain, I was an American (or f'ing Yank, depending on the eye of the beholder) and my skin colour stopped being an issue. I used to be worried when I would go back to the States that I would get the same treatment but it just hasn't happened. Maybe it's because now that I'm older, I tend to carry myself with more confidence and authority and give off a vaguely entitled vibe with accompanying withering glare. Maybe it's because when I open my mouth out comes the most appalling East Coast prep school twang instead of a Mexican accent. I don't know, but as I approach re-entry to Planet America I am prepared that race might play a role in my life again. And I'll just face down those bigots with that withering glare!

lol I have to say some ppl over there should think before they open their mouths,alot of the Americans from over there(if not native American)actually did origionate from Europe etc...so they should think twice over there before saying something.
I would of told them I learnd English real fast it is in my gen´s...lol

Yeah I myself am from Germany and I was asked if Hilter is still alive and if he is friendy now,I just said back yeah he is a cool dude and lives a few blocks away from me.I figured it was a joke or they where being a smartass...nope it was the true fact of them wanting to figure that out,very sad indeed.
Someone thought that Germany was a part of Russia. All I can say is alot of people over there are

It sickens my stomach to read about discrimination and about racism, I hate stories about how people (Americans, Germans, Mexicans, etc) made someone feel this way or that way, and that it is always about racism. I have been in the US for almost two years now, and I have not felt once that I have been segregated or discriminated because of race. I know, I might be the minority of the minority, but I am not blond (or black) and I speak English with an accent, so I know I am not blending in, and for God’s sake, any time I can speak Spanish to someone (anyone for that matter) I will.

Frankly I feel pity for these people that seek pleasure by humiliating another person, because the truth is, they are SO ignorant that they don’t know any better way to feel important. I don’t think it has to do much with being traveled; I think it has more to do with respect and with personality. I will not let any one, neither American, Cambodian, British or from any nationality affect me by making me feel discriminated. Stand your ground, if someone confuses an Egyptian with a Mexican, by simply saying, I am don’t speak Spanish I am from Egypt, a lot could be avoided; if someone confuses you for a nanny, simply smile and say no I’m a doctor/lawyer/architect/ teacher and keep on talking as if nothing happened.

The problem of racism in the US amazes me, its almost like people WANT to be segregated, I’ve seen Venezuelans (who in Venezuela would totally embrace anything American) behave and dress different to ‘represent’ the Latino community (by dressing like say Mexicans) when in Venezuela they would be completely dress like the kids on the OC normally (as in totally preppy), or I’ve seen black people talk completely normal English to me, and when a white person joins the conversation they start talking like what in the movies you’d call ‘the hood’. Why? What’s the point?

But I guess we can’t help that, but what we can really help is setting an example and not feeling less (or more) than anyone because the truth is, that you are no different from the person you were back home (where possibly you were never segregated or discriminated). I know that in my family alone there are all colors invented by nature, we have from dark black skinned people to blond and blue eyes and all the shades between, because Venezuela (like the other South American countries and the US) has an incredible mix of races coming from all over the world, so if I didn’t feel different at home NO ONE is going to make me feel different here.

A little attitude people… but of the good one… and I completely agree with Elmcitymaven… just stand your ground, glare back with the most ‘as if’ look that you can give them and keep on with your life. No one (specially people you don’t care about) can make you feel less or different because of your skin color.

Is it just me or did we get off this topic slightly???? History is just that...HISTORY. Lets leave it at that. No matter how much college education you have on the subject, it still doesnt make one more of an expert on the subject because frankly...NONE of us were there so we don't know the WHOLE truth. We are talking about the here and now discrimination. No matter where you go in the world, there will always be discrimination. I personally never had to deal with it until I went to the UK. For the most part everyone there made me feel real welcome. There were only a few that made me feel like I was nothing.

I have a degree in BULLSHITE...does that make me an expert????

LJ

I hate to burst your bubble, but they were teasing you.

The same thing happened to my husband at Wal-Mart..the greeter on the way out wanted to check his reciept and his bag and make sure that he paid for everything. It's hard being latino in Texas right now. Another thing, I worked at the airport for years, and I got so tired of people freaking out every time a Arab looking person came around or on a plane, thinking they were gonna blow up the place. One of my best friends is Pakastani descent, and she would just be in tears because of it. I'm glad I've been lucky enough to be exposed to so many cultures and learn from all of my friends.

My SO's best friend's father, said he wanted to live in Mexico after his retirement but he wasnt sure about it because we didnt have all the amenities the States has. WTF?? Like what: bathrooms? BMW's? PLASMA TV's? What was he talking about? That just shows ingnorance, at least I have something he doesnt: BOOKS!!

Thank God not all americans are like that, I've met incredible people there, othewise I will stay in my country. Ohh and when I told my SO i was going to Austria to learn german he said: do they have kangaroos over there?? (i guess that wasnt too bad, Australia-Austria ???) but what is really bad is that he confuses Germany and Austria all the time, because they both speak german, and he asks me sooo how is Germany, Austria whatever??

My local walmart checked everyone's bags for years. And most of the people in this area were white...

You shouldn't be shopping at Walmart anyway. If you do shop there, you deserve to get dumped on.

Cheers!
AKDiver

Why? What's wrong with Walmart?

Oh, oh, a lot of Austrians and Bavarians would hate that statement and feel personally offended!



Concerning Wal Mart: Yeah, why, what's wrong with them? One of the only places around here that's opened 24/7.

<- my face right now

This is definetly one of the things that scares me the most about moving to the US.
My fiance lives in Austin and he's told me that is it a very welcoming city. I spent 3 weeks there in january and everyone was really nice, but then again I was a total tourist, with my camera with me all the time and taking pictures standing next to a police car and of Stubbs bbq (can't wait to go there again, yumm!)
One thing that I did notice, is that when I was by myself a few people just assumed I didn't speak english -like a couple of cashiers at HEB and office depot-...but oh well, not a big deal
Another small thing that I noticed is, my fiance lives near a school, and I went for a walk one day and one of those security guys that look over the kids when they leave the school kind of looked at me suspicious (maybe it was just that he'd never seen me around the neighbourhood before), I just waved and said Hi, and I guessed that put his mind at ease because then he'd always wave when he saw me walk by.
One funny thing is that we went to a bar one night and we were worried that I had my argentinian ID with me, and maybe they'd think it's fake, but the guy at the door just looked at it and said "welcome to America!" and let me in, that was preety funny...then I didn't know you couldn't take your beer outside and he saw me coming and took it away...snif. But that was just funny, no discrimination there.

I can take the small things fine, I don't care about that, I hope it doesn't change much when I'm actually living there
I'm still preety worried though

Well, if you don't know...then nothing I guess.

Cheers!
AKDiver

It's a symbol of American consumerism -- it's about buying things we don't need with money we don't have

Which is great

When I go to the U.S., I assume that no one there speaks English either. If they did, then when I tell someone, "no mayo, mustard, or ketchup", I would get a burger without mayo, mustard, or ketchup.

Uh, that's what they are supposed to do. Don't you know? Everyone in the US is a terrorist, unless it is proven otherwise.

Cheers!
AKDiver