Moving Guide (Draft)

This is a set of general rules on when threads will or will not be moved:



When Not to Move:

There will always be overlap between forums so often a topic may fit equally well in both. If this is the case the topic should remain in the original forum it was posted in.

If a topic contains issues that are related to more than one forum(s) theme but however the initial AND primary topic relates to the Forum it is currently in then the topic should not be moved.

If a topic seems out of place but does not have a clear forum it could be moved to, then it should be left where it was posted.

Example: Person A discusses a general K1 question but then also talks about Adjustment of Status and other issues. In this case the topic should remain in the K1 forum since their intial and primary topic was K1 related but then they also discussed other issues.


When to move:

The initial AND primary theme of a topic does not fit the description of the Forum it was posted in and another forum's description fits the thread's theme MUCH better. In this case the topic should be moved to the correct Forum.



General Rule:

--o If the initial and primary theme of a topic does not relate to the forum it is in and another forum is MUCH more applicable then it can be moved.
--o If there is any ambiguity or the topic seems vague and clearly does not have another forum that fits MUCH better then leave it where it is.

Sounds good so far.

What about when someone posts they got their visa. If that's all they say, we should leave it where they put it (I assume).

If they talk about the interview, etc. it would be helpful to put it in Consulates?

Or should the 'celebration' never be touched?

I'm pretty sure that nobody here wants to throw a wet blanket on somebody's joy. But if there is an interview account or info about the consulate in the post - what should be done?

Less moving. I like it. I think this will make things a bit more clear for everyone. Reminds me of the time I tried to organize my DVDs by genre. Got so complicated. I mean...you've got comedy, drama, all the basics of course - but so many that just didn't really fit nicely into categories. AND you know - Disney movies seemed to belong in a category all by themselves, but then Shrek was left all alone. It got messy. I wimped out and just alphabetized the whole damn mess. But, alas, I suppose that wouldn't work so well on here.

For this I would remind them to post their review in the Review Section. The forums are a difficult place for people to search for consulate interview reviews, etc.. The Review Section is designed for that.

I will have to think about the others.

Capt. Ewok,

If a thread relates to multiple forums, rather than moving the thread, is it possible for a link to be placed into the other forums message list forwarding the member to the original post?

Also, as a means of educating members of proper posting guidelines .. when a post is moved, could a message be included on the thread list stating This thread has been moved to the ________ General Discussion Forum or whatever. I believe that this option would let the potential posters know where to post like discussions, and let members browsing the forums know where to find similar posts.

Thanks,
CB

Not able to be done right now...



Good idea and I can possibly implement this .

Jen3539 actually suggested this in a previous thread A forum full of moved threads and a few complained that it was too much work and people should just look up to the forum they are redirected to after clicking on the various moved threads - or some such business. I also agree it's a wonderful idea. Would be quite helpful.

*EDIT - Suggested the moved to ____Forum...that is - not the multiple linking.

Here's a popular one:

And what about the review/aos/embassy/I-Got-My-Interview, etc posts inside regional discussion forums?

(Same rules for everyone right?)

Helpful suggestion here - a post inside the moved-thread "This post was moved FROM ______Forum/section" If people are to learn, then they'll see where it came from (obviously the OP would already know)...of course this would take a few seconds longer to accomplish...

I was under the impression that these were "grey area" posts.

A scenario question more than anything,

I know when a thread gets moved, then the number of posts is reflected in the receiving forums thread list and any replies to that thread "bumps" it to the top of THAT forum.

If a post is moved from Forum A to Forum B to Forum C and then back to Forum A ..

Would this place links in the associated forums as well as maintain the post in its original forum? Would this be too much to ask from forum moderators?

CB

sounds like triple the amount of moving to me (and some are concerned about the current level)! i think Ewok put it best - grey area - leave it where it was originally posted.

Sounds good to me so far Cap....I agree with Mags though...we need a definite on the regional forums as many seem concerned about that. M.

If I understand the function of this board correctly, it is to educate members on the family immigration process. If a post contains information that would be useful in accomplishing this by utilizing it in multiple forums then I really don't think that it is a grey area. Furthermore, by moving it back to the forum where it was originally posted the moderator would not be "stepping on the toes" of the original poster.

In most cases this would be only one additional move, to the associated forum and back, I just used the "A B C D" forums as an example of the moderators ability to accomplish linking the post to multiple forums.

In your response you stated "sounds like triple the amount of moving to me", that answered my question .. it is possible, thanks for that. Maybe I have planted a seed in the minds of some of the moderators that don't mind doing that little bit of extra work.

CB

CB, I don't know whether Laura (lal brandow)knows if it could be done or not...I *think* she was just assuming that if it could be, it would be more work....you would have to ask Cap Ewok if it could be done or not as I said in that other thread. By the way, it's not the "work" I think most movers are concerned about...that's not as big of a deal, IMO. It's that people are already complaining wholeheartedly about how many threads are moved and that the forum looks worse than it did before, and not being able to "find" threads (which I *Certainly* don't understand!!!....that if we started leaving links all over the place it would just be more cluttered up....doesn't make sense to me. If there is one link left ...that can be followed. When you're done...use the back button..simple enough to me. M.

CountryBoy,

I'd be surprised if that has happened - a post moved and then moved back to its' original forum.

With each move the Organizer has the option to leave a link behind or not. The default is to leave a link behind, and I'm sure that all Organizers accept the default unless they have some good reason not to.

I have seen a few cases where a post was moved from A to B, and then from B to C, and the Organizer opted to not leave a link behind in B when moving the post to C.

Yodrak

Not directly related, but an organizing question:

What about cross posted threads? People clearly see that there is more than one place they can put their thread, so they do.
I think it contributes to some of the current problems.

Yodrak,

So if a post is moved from Forum A to Forum B and the moderator opted NOT TO leave a link to the original post there, and then the same moderator moved the same post from Forum B back to Forum A and opted TO leave a link to it there then the post would be back in the original forum and a link would be placed in the second forum.

MichelleAndCraig,

If the move was accomplished as I described in my reply to Yodrak immediately above, then there would only be one link and one post .. exactly the same number as if the post was simply moved. Voila, no more mess than if a post is moved, no toes being stepped on, and information valuable to VJ members readily available in both forums. The only thing is that the Organizer/Scout would have to make an additional move and with the first move would have to choose not to leave a link to the original post, but since you said that the work isnt' an issue .. that shouldn't be a problem.

As far as asking Captain Ewok goes, I am creating a discussion with the "movers" .. and not just the three that have replied to this suggestion, but all of them that are taking the time to read and consider the idea. If all I get are negative responses to this suggestion, then I will abandon it.

And finally, for the back button statement .. I personally feel that when I post a message to a forum and it gets moved that I have been "cheated" from sharing information with my "online family" as the post slowly disappears into the abyss of moved threads on page whatever since it cannot be bumped back to the top of my forum of choice as people reply.

Someone stated in a post some time back, (I am paraphrasing) "If you don't like the way it is done, come up with something that will work." I have made the two suggestions posted within this thread in an attempt to satisfy the needs of the community while addressing member concerns without predjudice toward posters or moderators. I am not a mover and shaker, I just wholeheartedly believe that every issue can be resolved by discussing it.

I wish someone would try the suggestion that I have made in this post just one time to see if it can be done. I don't have the ability or clearance to do so, therefore I cannot.

Thanks to all Organizers/Scouts that take the time to read and consider this idea. I apologize for my post from yesterday bringing down so much heat on you guys and gals, I really do appreciate the job that everyone does here at VJ.

CB

CB,

Correct. But I can't think of a reason why an Organizer would want to do such a thing.

I can think of a reason why they would do just the opposite. Move from A to B leaving a link in A so that the original poster can find their thread again, then perhaps move from B back to A without leaving a link in B because they realize they should not have moved the thread in the first place.

I don't think that any Organizers move threads for the thrill of it, they do it because they honestly believe the thread is more appropriate on another forum. There are, I'm sure, some differences of opinion among organizers, and some move threads that others would leave alone. But I do not see the differences of opinion being so great that threads start jumping from forum to forum as different Organizers look at them and come to different conclusions about them. I do recall one thread quite a while back that was moved by one Organizer and then was moved back to its' original forum by another Organizer. The two quickly discovered who each other was and resolved the difference of opinion without another move.

Yodrak

I can think of one reason: they are curious by nature.
http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=64560


That didn't really relate to what you guys wrote, but it was a perfect segue...

I understand what he is saying. Because there seems to be some dissatisfaction among those who get their posts moved, he suggests that the post stay where it is, but put a link to the post in the more appropriate forum. I assume the thought is that everyone would be happy - the OP has his post where he wanted it in the first place, and the link to the post would be in the correct forum so that people browsing that forum could be directed to relevant posts that are not located in that forum.

IMO, I think it's a bit complicated.

CB,
Looks like it leaves a breadcrumb each time.. there are now two lines in this forum for the same thread. BUT, I left a referral with each move. I'll try it again if you think it will do something, but I think the result will be the same.

As far as discussing with the movers, by all means, but we have no influence or pull with Ewok, and it really is all his decision to make. I appreciate you coming up with suggestions!

To the last para.. I'm not sure exactly what you mean there. But, it's common to post the same helpful info over and over and over again.. may as well get used to that because I've yet to see another solution!

Yodrak,

Thanks for considering it anyways.

I'll try saying it another way.

I make a post in my forum of choice, I post it there because I want the people there to read it and share ideas, joys etc. .. and I want it to be able to continue to bump to the top of that forum as people reply to it. Say now that JOE ORGANIZER decides that because information within my post is valuable in say the "CONSULATE" forum .. I would agree more than likely, but when he moves it my post in my forum of choice gets a moved flag and as people reply to it the post moves to the top of the receiving forum's thread list and not my forum of choice's thread list, rather it just slowly disappears into the abyss of moved threads at the end of my forum of choice .. now I am mad at whoever moved the thread, and since I don't know exactly who moved it I am mad at all organizers/scouts. I start calling them names like power hungry whatever and I am not happy and the mover isn't happy.

Two simple clicks can avoid the hostility in my opinion.

CB

Meauxna,

Thank you so much for doing that, you are the best.

Please do try without the referral on the first move.

CB

jenn,

I think that's a bit of an understatement. It calls upon Organizers to understand why the poster posted where they did in the first place. My sense is that in most cases the reason is some variation of because they don't know any better, and they can learn something - about the site and about immigration - by seeing the move.

Yodrak

ok i get what CB is getting at here.. but in the scheme of things, is it more important to let your buddies know by way of a misplaced thread (according to the definitions of the forums) current goings on, or is it more helpful for the site to house information regarding separate steps in thie defined forums?

I mean, I see merit in what CB is suggesting, but I have to point out, at least in my neck of the woods, people generally tell their monthly classmates of the new *sitch* then post a stand alone thread about it.

Yup. The fly in the ointment is that CB may actually be putting the thought into what he's doing in such a way that someone *would* want to help him out.

Then there's the 99% of folks who just will not catch a clue, pay less than zero attention, or know but don't care.

Personally, I don't see a problem when people post in the subtitle of a thread "Please do not move." Although I'm sure that will be controversial as well!

Truthfully, that one makes me contrary.

Put the Regionals back into the Embassy area.. too much slicing and dicing has been done.. way too many subforums (is this the right thread.. ?)

CB,

Seems to me that what you need is a personal mailing list, not a public forum.

Are you sure that all "the people there" want to read your posts when they're off topic for that forum? Maybe the odd rare person might not care for your choices.

Yodrak

Yodrak,

That was the purpose of my question to Captain Ewok in this thread .. If a post is completely out of place, and it has to be moved .. then move it, but in doing so include on the thread list "moved to __________ general discussion forum" or whatever, don't just assume that the poster (or members browsing the forum) know where it is going. If you just move it, they will not learn anything. Educate them so that they know which forum has posts that are similar to the one that HAS to be moved because it is so off topic .. Also, when it is their turn to make a similar post, they know just where to go because you as a mover have told them right on the thread list.

However, if a post is relevant in 2 different forums, then first and foremost it should remain in the original forum as the post (not as a referenced link) because it was posted correctly in the first place .. thus the reason for my method of leaving it there. Because Captain Ewok said that it cannot be done another way at this time, I am just experimenting in ways to get the job accomplished.

I'm not asking you to understand why a poster posted something where they did, refer to the above .. if it is off topic move and tag the post "moved to ....." if it is on topic for more than one forum .. use the method that I have suggested so that the post remains in the original forum and the reference link is in the second forum.

Thanks again for participating in this.

CB

Please don't make this personal and tell me to get lost. (if that is your intention) This discussion is for all to read, and I really am trying to help .. honest.

It is all about on topic and off topic .. not about choices, not about me, not about you .. about the community as whole.

Like I said in my previous post .. if it is COMPLETELY OFF TOPIC, by all means move it ..

Thanks

CB

CB,

I understand the concept of what you're getting at...and I don't see why it would be too much of a problem if it was *really* important to the poster that it stay there. On the other hand, if everyone all of a sudden just starts typing, 'please do not move' then what's the point of even trying to change things in the first place? We're right back to where we started--which I realize is what some people want...but it's not what we, and Cap. Ewok, ultimately...decided to try.

Also, I FAIL to understand this and have said it time and time again. I am not saying this in a patronizing tone at all(as it is very hard to tell over the Internet, I know) but I *AM* extremely frustrated with it. WHY OH WHY would a mover have to type *anything* at all in the thread to say where it was moved to??? If you simply *click the link and follow the thread to its new location* you will SEE what forum it's in. If that's too much to ask someone to do (to simply look at which forum they're in) then I don't think anyone has the right to be asking any mover to "move it here and don't leave a link, then move it there and do leave one, then move it back and...." Do you know what I mean? Again, don't mean that rudely at all...but it shouldn't be too much to ask someone just to pay attention to the forum they're in when they get back to the thread by clicking the link and therefore learn where those type of threads should be posted in that way. This has been gone over time and time again...I just don't see why it's hard to follow a thread.

Things like touches and whathaveyou are not really that important to share with your friends are they? However, if you do think they are...and that's certainly alright of course! then just post it in the proper forum...for bigger news....like NOA2....if you post it in the subforum where it should go....also put it in your siggy for a while or something if you want everyone to see it...it will be in every post you make, and believe me, your friends will notice!

I think you had a good idea, and no...please feel confident in the fact that it's *not* the additional "work" I'm worried about at all...I just don't think it's really necesary. We're trying to change the way people post...if we ultimately bring the post back to where it was in the first place we're all "learning" nothing. M.

MichelleAndCraig,

I don't like the idea of a poster putting "Please do not move" on a thread either, it is questioning your responsibility as an organizer/scout

Why would a mover have type anything?

hmmm, if I had been here since October 2004 I would be very comfortable navigating thru the forum .. but I just signed up in December, what would it hurt for a mover to assist me by telling me .. ok poster, there is a correct forum for you to make this post .. and it is here, and by the way anyone reading this if you want to read more posts of this nature, or if by some chance you ever want to make a post like this please do so in the ________ forum.

I didn't even know that you could navigate to the forum where the post was being moved to by clicking the link at the top of the page until I really looked for it. It is like expecting someone to learn Quantum Physics by handing them a book and saying, figure it out for yourself (it wasn't really that bad) but why make them search, educate them ..

I think, if you impliment this part of my suggestion and follow the moving guides as Captain Ewok has outlined them then posters will pick up on it and you won't see as many misplaced posts .. thus less moving and less having to type where the post was moved.

At least Captain Ewok thought it was a good idea .. hopefully this part happens.

I am not asking you to return off topic posts .. I am just trying to place a reference link to the post in another forum where it is also on topic.

it isn't all about yippeee forum, k-1 in general ..

CB

Hi again CB...

I don't quite understand the last bit...about the reference link and not asking anyone to 'return topics'. I thought that's what your request was all about(basically...aside from writing where the thread was moved to within the thread itself).... ?

If we move a thread perm., there is *always* a link left behind to follow.

If we move a thread temporarily, leave a reference in the "new" forum, and then move it back to the original forum as you first suggested (which, no offense intended at all, is pointless to me... (as it would only cause people to continue to make those type of posts in that forum where they didn't actually belong).....then there would be no reason to leave a reference because the original post would be there. I know you meant "off topic" posts...but the reason the posts are moved to begin with is because the mover feels it is "off topic" or MUCH better served in a different forum...that will be the only reason from now on....Cap. has advised us not to move any threads that can easily fit in two forums or are in a "gray" area...so we won't be doing that.

However, that doesn't mean that people should still post "Hey, I got my NOA2!" in the K1 forum...because there has been a *specific* forum created just FOR those type of threads...and your friends (if you know what I'm getting at...that you want to see your celebrations,etc...) are meant to get to know that they should visit that forum looking for those type of threads. If you were looking for advice/experiences on interviews in London, for example, you wouldn't visit the off topic forum...know what I mean? It just has to be gradually learned that the new subforum is the place to go for celebrations...that's all...a learning curve is all we really need here and things will improve.

As far as placing...this thread has been moved to...blah blah blah....I can only see one problem with that. I have skipped over threads that I've later seen moved. I have also moved a few that maybe others wouldn't have...who knows? I've tried to be careful, but as has already been stated...the movers aren't going to agree *every* time on what should be moved where. Why should we have to leave our name behind on every single thread so people can analyze us continually (as is already happening now even without that!) like 'Oh, I made this thread and Michelle moved it to here and etc etc etc..." You know? I don't move unless I'm pretty certain it should be...so it's not me wanting to be accountable...but there WILL be people that will complain about it...trust me....we all gripe about stuff to a certain extent..and I just don't think it has to be "out there" for all to see.

Aside from that, I AGAIN see no reason to have to type that....I really don't think people have to be spood fed THAT much, do you?? If you can simply scroll to the top OR bottom of the screen and see what forum you've been taken to (using an impersonal "you" here), that should certainly be enough. I'm certain people are fully capable of reading and saying to themselves "Oh. I probably should have posted that here. Well, now I know." Do you see what I'm saying? I don't really think it's necessary at all. If you still think it is we'll have to agree to disagree. The ideas are good and I can tell you are trying to be helpful, we just don't happen to see eye to eye on this one...I'm not sure how others feel about it, so I can only speak for myself as always. M.

PS...I'm also not quite sure what you meant by "clicking the link at the top of the page and it being like physics.." hehe....the link is right in the normal threads...it has the same title and everything (as I'm sure you know...) it just says moved next to it and has -- in the views and reply boxes...you simply click on THAT thread and it brings you to the new forum automatically. You can simply go back one page when you're done to get to where you were before by using the back button on your browser. Hope this helps, or maybe you knew that all already... dunno. M.

In addition, to address the question of why so many moved in K1 and not elsewhere...another answer.

I just looked in the K3 forum and if you go in there today...there are *plenty* of threads that would be moved if they were titled in the same way and in the K1 forum. As it stands right now though, there is no forum in which to move those threads. I was also one of the ones under the impression, initually, that the new subforum would include ALL yippee/celebration posts, continuing journey (such as "what's taking so long and transfers, etc.) but since it's not and K3 doesn't (at least yet) have a subforum, they stay there.

Just another reason why as many aren't being moved from there for those who were wondering. (Karin & Otto, you come to mind first...) M.

M,

You and I will have to agree to disagree ..

I hope you know that I am trying to resolve the issues of so many complaining about the moved threads. Do you honestly think that by taking your approach and doing nothing (or continuing to move threads SO MUCH without educating the member) that the issue will be resolved? Why should every member coming into the community have to learn because the "movers" are unwilling to change their moving technique and the posters are told basically, "figure it out for yourself and don't complain because I have the authority to say so and don't care what you think." Something really does have to change. Maybe the entire layout of the site to make it more user friendly .. who knows.

I am not trying to spoon feel the members at vj, just educate them .. and yes I do think they need THAT MUCH, otherwise I wouldn't keep repeating it over and over ..

as far as moving back goes .. I'll abandon that one. It was simply a way to try and put a referencing link on the second forums thread list. I guess if any post in a forum is on topic whatsoever, then it don't move it as Captain Ewok has outlined in the guides. The people that look in the other forum can just miss out on that information.

CB

CB,

VJers are welcome to look in more than one forum - they should be encouraged to look in more than one forum. Immigration should not be as complicated as chess, but even checkers players think ahead more than just one move.

Yodrak

Country Boy, I'm curious.....

You say 'so many' are complaining about thread moving. Are there really a LOT of people unhappy about it? I'm seriously asking because I don't know.

rebeccajo,

you replied to a thread within the last few days that just seemed to never end about the issue of moving posts .. I think that is pretty concrete evidence; of course in the big picture, maybe only the ones that are truly vocal about the issue replied. As far as an actual percentage of users goes, I couldn't tell unless I put a poll in the forum (which I'm sure would get moved) about the issue and could convince people to reply to it.

CB

Yodrak,

I stated at the beginning of that paragraph that I would abandon that suggestion since I had no support on the issue.

I agree that everyone should think ahead more than just one move, but I hope you will agree that it is hard to do when you don't understand the game.

I still believe, and Captain Ewok agreed, that it is a good idea to let the members know in the tread list where a moved post is currently located (in order to educate members on properly posting messages to the correct forum and let them know where like posts would be located as well) Hopefully this can be done by way of configuration of the forum software so that it has the least impact on organizers and scouts.


CB

CB,

Yes, it is hard to do when one does not understand the game. That's why one should take advantage of the VJ Guides and Visa FAQ, and the USCIS How Do I web pages, and read more posts than they write for a while - in more than 1 forum.

I agree with you and Captain Ewok that showing where the move was to in the original thread would be a good idea, and would add a nice touch if it can be implemented. Until then, one can find the thread and where the thread has gone by clicking on the link left behind.

Yodrak

...but does anyone have an answer to the problem of the mover having to leave his/her name in each thread they move? As I've stated...I have no problem with anyone knowing any thread I've moved...*except* for the fact that a lot of people get uptight if any of their threads are moved...and they will know just who to complain about/to in those cases. It could end up being a real pain for the movers...not the writing of the words...the aftereffects.

Some people couldn't care less if the thread is moved...they understand why. Others? Well...I can just see it being a problem is all. M.

I agree that this is a drawback. Maybe Ewok knows of a way to automaticaly generate a post when a thread is moved.

OMG-- please say you are kidding.. isn't the idea less posts?

No way movers should have to put their names on the move, either. This isn't a democracy. If Ewok and his Army say 'this is how it is' .. oh I'm not getting into all this again.

I think we have a situation here where CB actually *does* do what he does on purpose. Unfortunately, the other 99% don't do it on purpose. They just do it.

CB: you are actually more 'one of us' than you know.. you want the same thing, and you think about how to get it.

The cross posting topic does belong in this discussion, actually. The problem isn't 'wherer to post' now, it's "I want my special club to know about my posts" which is really getting back to the whole MENA breakdown and having 'special' audiences.
Again: too much slicing and dicing.. lump more together, put the yipppees in their own forum and do things that encourage people to read/post in more than one forum.

Edit to add: none of this is actually getting to the core of the problem, which is letting users know what the guidelines are and that they, as users of the site, are expected to be good citizens and post the way board management wants. This is not new and it's not cruel--it's the way of almost every message board community I use/visit.

LOL. No I wasn't kidding though. Maybe it's a non-issue, but I thought that there was some concern that simply moving a post isn't enough to educate people about where the appropriate forum to post is.

The more that I think about it though, I think you're right. If people can't take it upon themselves to observe where their post was moved to and use it as a recommendation for their future posting habits, then an in-your-face post in the thread probably won't help them understand either. There's only so much you can do.

ETA: I don't know if this is true, but it seems to me that many of the posts that have to be moved are made by one-hit wonders.

are we getting CB examples posted again?

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry850280

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry850209

Shoot, if he wants to spend his time that way, bless him.
Ewok should give him a badge and a permit tho, lest other members sensibilities at being told what to do are too bruised.

well at least its poised at the actual moved posts vs, last time where was posted all over any thread.

lal brandow,

Yes, that is me .. I wish someone had taken the time to show me .. a least for a while.

Are you saying that I am posting inappropriately? If Captain Ewok is in agreement with that thought then I will not post try to help using that method again.

Get personal if you like, I am just trying to help educate and I will not lower myself to a level that comes to personal attacks regardless what others may do.

BTW meauxna .. I don't like the idea of an additional post either, I would much rather see the location of the post displayed in the thread list.

and the cross posting isn't about "I want my special club to know about my posts" (to me anyways) it is about a post that is relevant in more than one forum.

jenn3539 .. you said Maybe Ewok knows of a way to automaticaly generate a post when a thread is moved. .. I don't want an additional post generated, I would like to see displayed on the thread list were the moved post is currently located.

Thanks guys,
CB