hi there,

the k3 application for my wife's visa got approved 3 days ago... things have not been the best of times so far while living apart, including her relationship with my family. (more details in 'our story')

trying to figure out if i should end the relationship at this point assuming everything is a sign to come, or shoudl i persist and try to work things out once she comes here on k3....?

not accustomed to giving up and never really believed in divorce.... i'd like to think that it will work out and its just paranoia/misunderstandings... but want to take steps in case it doesn't work...

anybody have any ideas on an exit strategy if things don't work out inspite of trying once she's here? should i risk it?

is there a way i can delay filing AOS until i'm sure this is going to work? (i understand that after AOS things become complicated, right?)



-S

are you afraid that she might be just using you to get a greencard?

be optimistic.

BTW, what is the link of your "OUR STORY"?

Read the signature and story in OP's profile -it's there.

From what I read it does sound a bit like your wife is after the green card only. I guess you could have her come on K3 (I think it is valid for 2 years and is multiple entry) and delay filing for AOS then see if it works out.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

my concern is less that she might be using me just for a green card.... but using me more for personal enrichment (luckily i've been quite successful so far in my career - so i guess it draws an analogy to 'hitching a ride on a star' or 'gold-digger')... if my fear is true, then it is likely to be a loveless relationship of convenience for her. If I'm wrong, and all her affection and love is real, then no harm done.

An even bigger fear is that she seems to have an identity that's been kept well hidden from me so far (but not my family with whom she currently lives with in India). i.e. manipulative nature, tendency to lie for the smallest things, abrasive nature to many based on social status, occasional disrespect for my parents..... these are some things that are in complete contrast to my values and convictions, and things my parents have have taught me over the years... I'm not willing to put up with such traits lifelong, and also understanding that one can only expect a person to change their basic nature so much.

I thought I knew her well and had an excellent idea about her character and nature from the time we've spent getting to know each other. But these recent development have left me second-guessing myself.

Contradicting stories and explanations on multiple issues and occurances (as told by my family and by my wife to me separately) have left me in a very confused state. My parents have nothing to gain or lose by this marriage as we live apart and their relationship with my wife will be occasional and long distance. They have strong moral values and I have full faith in them... they took a while in analyzing her behavior before they started to tell me how things were really going on. Completely threw me off based on the happy picture my wife has been feeding me.

If I'm considering divorce, you can understand how concerned I am. It's a last resort. At this point its not about being optimistic or pessimistic. I'm being a 'realist' while trying to do everything I can to give this a fair chance to work out (hence my desire to still bring her here and work things out). However I need some safeguards and action plan if the worst were to happen (similar reasons why people get prenups these days)... I don't want to end up duped into paying the bills for someone who portrayed a very different personality prior to wedlock. Blind love hasn't always been a recepie for success... but in this case I'm really hoping it will be! I've already put a lot of emotions into this over the course of our relationship.


My original questions:
1. How long can I delay filing AOS once she is here
2. If I file for divorce while she is on K3, but prior to filing AOS, how does it affect me? her?
3. Will this come under US jurisdiction or Indian - since she will be on a non-immigrant K3 visa?







It's in my profile here -
http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showuser=33358
Click on the "Signature & Story" tab...

Thanks,
-S

You're married to her, and thus have undertaken "some" financial obligation to her (unless marriage laws are different in India). However, if you suspect she is looking for a meal ticket in this marriage, and nothing more (and you had not promised her that and she agreed to marry you with that as an understanding) then you could, prior to her using the visa to come to the USA, propose that you get some legal assistance in drafting a post-nuptial agreement, that will define what each of you are entitled to offer and retain as separate property. If she's looking at you as simply a meal-ticket, that will rattle her, and you'll evoke some sort of reaction that might help you to determine her true colours.

The perception on prenups and post-nups is very different in India due to culture (divorce in India is still frowned upon!). To her side of the family it will indicate a predicated plan to end the marriage which will likely put her on guard for longer, thus preventing me from learning the facts in good time. Also, its sending a strong message that I don't trust her - if it ends up working out between us, a postnup will do some significant damage.

So basically I need to cover myself, without being too overtly forthcoming that I have her under a microscope. Only then would I be able to determine whats really going on.

True, marriage does automatically bring abuot some level of financial obligation (unless we are able to part ways with a mutual understanding).

That being said there will be some factors that will affect the outcome - marriage of only 1-2 years, irreconcilable differences due to personality, fact that she is a computer engineer that is capable of self-support, fact that she will be going back to India where lifestyle is cheaper, fact that we are both young and have many years of income left.

Intend to keep a separate account once she's here to keep track of her income and expenses separately. Also, she has entered the marriage fully aware that I have outstanding debt in terms of loans for school, college and will be going back for graduate study soon... not sure if she is likely to get much from me by contesting a settlement that attributes my savings and debt to me... also not sure how much of my future earning I will have to give up in alimony based on CA law. Any thoughts on this?

If there is equal distribution of my assets (mostly cash savings and retirement fund, since I don't own a home), does she also take on half my debt? When it comes to divorce, I really have no clue about what to expect, except that statistically men are always getting the bad end of the deal in a divorce as compared to women.

i hardly ever visit this forum and post but i saw this story and i must say......

we only know one side of the story and to me it seems you have already made up your mind not to trust your wife, a marriage is bound to fail without that trust. you assume assume assume that she will come here and try to suck you dry, if you were that worried about it and took your families word for its truth you wouldnt bother with continuing especially with lack of trust. it seems that you are kinda a coward in a way because it doesnt say whether you have addressed your wife, whom should be number 1 contacted in this matter since you are really deformating her character based on assumptions. if in fact that she does have issues they will stand out and you can just end it, voila. instead of playin this mr dectective and trying to do things the 'subtle' way and not letting her onto being examined....not right.....IMHO.

This is the problem with marrying someone you really don't know!

You cannot attempt to make your marriage work while 'planning an exit strategy just in case'. Either leave her before you uproot her life only to 'hold out on AOS' later, or give it a go no holds barred.

good luck.

A coward would jump and run at the slightest hint of discord. I'm trying to find a way to give this more time so i can see things first hand here in US rather than just rely on what my family is telling me. I'm trying to get to point where I can judge her character for myself but protect myself if there has been any misrepresentation.

And in many ways I've have tried to find out her story to find it contrasts with what family is saying. The last thing I'd want to do is turn her against my family by directly confronting her - this would do significant long-term damage which I want to avoid in case everything turns out to be just a big misunderstanding. Why do damage by direct confrontation with her if the doubts can be subtly discredited and worked out?

Also, marriage in the way we did, more traditional and Indian, is very different from the way its done here. We don't get to live together prior to marriage or spend time that such traits are easily seen. Even though we got married, does not mean trust is tablestakes in our case. We must continually work in the early years to earn each others trust.

Thanks for your opinions jessNgeorge and LisaD, but I think I know what I'm doing and why. And don't expect you to understand Indian culture and tradition. There are a lot of things to consider - you're lucky not to be in my place. Good for you. But don't judge.

If you have any advice from a process, documentation, legal, etc. perspective that will help me, I'd appreciate it. But don't really think I need to justify further the position I'm in.

It is immoral to induce someone to give up her life in her own country, move to yours, where she is completely dependent on you, and hold the green card hostage to your doubts. She has the right to know, if she's giving up her life to come here that she may be walking into a situation where she's completely helpless, unable to work, and legally out-of-status.

I don't think there's going to be a way to find out what's wrong without directly speaking to her. You can try to protect some of your assets, and that's probably wise. But you likely can't do that without her knowledge and consent. And yes, that sends a strong message you don't trust her. Guess what: you don't trust her. She's going to figure that out. You're not going to be able to be subtle about it for long once she figures out you're supposed to be filing paperwork for her.

If you were in India, you could develop trust over time. You don't have that luxury here, and that sucks, but letting her think everything is fine and then springing this on her is not the way to go. If you're that uncertain, delay your petition (which will certainly serve a decent gold-digger proxy.)

It would be immoral to have misrepresented and married me as well. I wouldn't be 'springing' anything on her or put her in a bad position unless I determine that she really has ulterior motives to our marriage. Why do people reading this not see that I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt, but want to lay the groundworks in case I need to take action? Geez...

And why would I want to put her on guard by telling her that I'm having a difficult time trusting her seven seas away? What will that accomplish but to make her all the more careful in front of me? How would I determine her motives if she has any? With this tactic I'm better off just ending the marriage rather than trying to bring her here and make things work! Great opinions folk!

Wonder why people on this thread are more determined to give their opinions on my methods rather than answer my questions and help me understand the procedures given the situation I'm in? That was why I started this thread. If you think this is unethical or immoral, no worries, don't contribute any advice. But if you understand the situation I'm in, willing to help and give me some useful advice, I'd really appreciate it. Not looking for opinions on my approach, looking for advice on the following questions -

1. How do I take steps to protect myself without being overtly vocal?
2. How do I delay the petition or AOS or anything else to get enough time to spend with her and draw a conclusion?
3. Any other ideas?

Thanks,
- S

Honestly, because there's not much you can do. You're already married, so anything you do to hide or divide assets (this would be true of a pre-nup, too) would have to be done with her full, informed, and free consent. Anything less than that would end up thrown out by a judge in the event you did divorce and she did decide to contest it. ("I had to sign it or he'd have me deported" is under duress.)

You can slow down the petition process by taking your time in sending all the documentation she needs, but once she's here....She can't work without filing for AOS, so that nice computer science degree she has will just sit there. It can be hard to get a bank card, driver's license, any manner of things. The K-3's good for two years, but see here for why that's not recommended.

You don't have to file the instant she gets here. But delaying to test her loyalty seems to me to create a recipe for more marital discord, and is a bad way to test your marriage. From what you're saying it doesn't seem like you're worried about fraud, but about whether you two are compatible.

Thanks Caladan. This helps. And you are right, I'm not worried about immigration fraud, just worried that she has misrepresented herself which colors our pre-marriage decision about compatibility. Also, I'm not much worried about any current assets of mine being split - I'm more worried about the impacts on my future income were we to get divorced at this stage.

From what I've read on the forum however is that as a K3, you can apply for EAD before submitting an application for AOS. So she would be able to get a job here right? I just need about 6 months with her to figure this stuff out. So if I do delay filing the AOS it would be only for about 6 months.

Thanks for the link. It makes some interesting points. But here is a question I have:

Wouldn't it be better to wait for a bit anyways and apply for AOS such that when it is approved by the INS, we would have completed 2 years of our marriage?

Thus we can avoid the intermediary step of getting a conditional green card and directly get permanent residency.

This would be a good excuse/reason for delaying as well... your thoughts?

Thanks,
-S

I'm not as familiar with the K-3, but I think there can be problems with renewing the EAD if you haven't shown you've filed for AOS.

I'm thinking that you're thinking that if you divorce, and you haven't filed for AOS, you'll be able to send her back to India and she won't have access to the American courts to get your money. It's not necessarily quite that simple. Lemme explain where I'm coming from on this.

The VAWA (check out the FAQ at the top of this forum, this question, specifically.) provides for foreigners whose spouses are refusing to file to file on their own. It was put in to prevent abusive men (not saying you are, mind) from holding the green card over their foreign wives and making them feel like they have to stay in an abusive situation or be sent home. (Blah, blah, yes men can be abused, too, consider that implicitly in there.)

The thing is, the law is (rightfully, to my mind) drawn very broadly because they'd rather err on the side of caution than not. So, it's conceivable that you'd initiate divorce proceedings, and she could claim emotional abuse, manipulation, and that you weren't filing the green card as a test for her.... and now not only is she still here in the U.S. to fight for her rights in divorce court, she'll be über-pissed and you look bad. (It's not an easy road for her by any means, but she'd be *here*, not in India.)

As far as the I-134 goes, it's not legally binding. The I-864 is, and it's a serious commitment, but probably the least of your worries if you're in a nasty divorce. Divorces aren't instantaneous either, and as long as you're still legally married, she'd have the right to be here.

I don't know much about divorce law and whether your hypothetical future earnings would be on the block, or just what you made during the duration of the marriage, or some percentage. But if you want to do a 'post-nup', you'll have to get a lawyer and that's what lawyers are for, to figure those things out. She'd have to sign that though, but there are ways to frame it so you don't look like you don't trust her; the post-nup can protect her assets, too. I have a good friend who is trying to broach a pre-nup with his (American) fiancée, because his family is wealthy and he stands to inherit a lot, and his family worries about divorce. They're not particularly romantic, but they are common.

Bottom line is, I don't think delaying AOS gets you any more security as to what she could get out of a divorce settlement.

So what really happens if the spouse goes "out of status"? It's not like INS is going to come knocking on your door and deport the "out of status" person, right? Does anyone know? I mean, surely they have more important things to do, right? I think having an out-of-status spouse will have a more straining effect on the marriage and things can only get from bad to worse.

Thanks Caladan, this is the kind of objective advice I was looking for.

Quick question - isn't the system built such that it becomes hard for someone to falsify abuse claims? Or rephrased another way, if no abuse has taken place, what are the safeguards for the spouse on which abuse accusations are being made?

Thanks,
-S

-S,

No, the sustem is not built that way. If the accuser has a good lawyer the accused needs to have a better lawyer.

Yodrak

Out of status person could be removed, but even if not:
will have difficulty finding a job, legitmately
would be subject to employer reporting to ICE if using falsified documentation
could not return to the USA if they leave
may be picked up for a minor traffic violation, or worse
lives under the radar and the requisite stress of that